Dremel Releases a Mass-Market 3D Printer(makezine.com)
makezine.com
Dremel Releases a Mass-Market 3D Printer
http://makezine.com/2014/09/17/dremel-3d-printer-idea-builder/
24 comments
I'm under the impression that a LOT of companies are currently thinking that they miss their market right now if they don't bring out a 3d printer. Actually, the market is not that big and over-saturated with printers right now. The vendors (this goes especially to the big ones) are missing one critical point: They haven't made it easy enough for Joe User to create printable 3d designs. The "mass" will not buy a product like that if they don't understand why they need it for and also not if they don't have access to easy and powerful tools to make actually good use of it.
My sense is that alot of companies are trying to get ahead of the curve on 3d printers. The major advance that will make 3d printers mass market items is probably going to be in the moddeling software, and the "model store" ecosystem. This makes the printers themselves largely commodities from the start, so if a company already has a couple of prototypes done to the point where they have a solid printer, they are ready to ride the wave of mass 3d printing.
Of course, this is assuming that someone solves the hardware problem, otherwise it is likely just a failed investment; but that just makes it a risky investment.
Of course, this is assuming that someone solves the hardware problem, otherwise it is likely just a failed investment; but that just makes it a risky investment.
Over-saturated is an understatement..it is getting pretty bad.
http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/3dprinters/
I am sure that is not nearly all of them :)
The design is always an issue when printing too. Customers rarely design their models to be printed because they don't fully understand the process. If you design correctly you can get away with very little support material and still get very detailed models..if not then you end up with either a poorly printed object or significant detail loss on the surfaces from support material removal.
Maybe some plugins for popular CAD programs might be helpful...at least some sort of "ray" plugin that would show where your trouble overhangs/support material generation will be located. At least for training purposes.
http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/3dprinters/
I am sure that is not nearly all of them :)
The design is always an issue when printing too. Customers rarely design their models to be printed because they don't fully understand the process. If you design correctly you can get away with very little support material and still get very detailed models..if not then you end up with either a poorly printed object or significant detail loss on the surfaces from support material removal.
Maybe some plugins for popular CAD programs might be helpful...at least some sort of "ray" plugin that would show where your trouble overhangs/support material generation will be located. At least for training purposes.
I'm not sure a few pages of 3d printers covering a price range from $140-$846 000 is really any evidence of over-saturation.
How do we determine this? An equivalent list of 2d printers would be significantly longer.
How do we determine this? An equivalent list of 2d printers would be significantly longer.
The market for 2d printers are also several magnitudes bigger, presently.
More often than not it is a print quality issue with a lot of them. At least what I've run into.
Operator knowledge is very important. I often tell people "It is like a table saw...not a toaster" "Just because you have one doesn't mean you will be able to use it right away"
Also, typically the less you spend on a printer the more time you spend tuning or failing prints. You can make a $600 in parts printer do very well if you know what you are doing...but it is much easier if you spend more on parts. Things like linear rails and proper leadscrews go a very long way...as does a proper hotend.
Also, typically the less you spend on a printer the more time you spend tuning or failing prints. You can make a $600 in parts printer do very well if you know what you are doing...but it is much easier if you spend more on parts. Things like linear rails and proper leadscrews go a very long way...as does a proper hotend.
Spot on. This is something that I find myself telling to people: money buys you time. The more you pay, the less you have to spend figuring out how does it work.
> They haven't made it easy enough for Joe User to create
> printable 3d designs.
> Re: market saturation
SLS would also give you higher resolution with the option of materials, little waste, and a nearly ready-to-go part out of the machine. Anyone know if there are attempts to bring that to homes?
Yeah, we have the past two MakerBots, which work decently, and their 3D scanner which is unusable.
easy and functional designs. PLA toys are just a novelty.
I believe Dremel is just rebranding the "Flashforge Dreamer" which is a company out of china.
http://www.flashforge-usa.com/shop/3d-printers/flashforge-dr...
I purchase this model a few months ago and it's been alright - though the extruder seems to get jammed half way into my prints.
It's interesting to see the base price is below the OEM.
http://www.flashforge-usa.com/shop/3d-printers/flashforge-dr...
I purchase this model a few months ago and it's been alright - though the extruder seems to get jammed half way into my prints.
It's interesting to see the base price is below the OEM.
You don't say! From the article:
The Idea Builder is based on the Flashforge Dreamer,…Is it? I thought the huge deal of all these slick printers is to do the razor blade business model.
Nobody seems to want to make the printer with cheap highly compatible plastics and if they could limit the models you can print even better.
Nobody seems to want to make the printer with cheap highly compatible plastics and if they could limit the models you can print even better.
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Presumably the OEM is actually a retail price, Dremel is paying 40-70% less, and then marking it back up to $999.
I own a 3D printer. It's an Ultimaker (they are coming to the US [1]) and I'm using it for prototyping.
Some things that you almost never read about consumer 3D printers:
[1] https://www.ultimaker.com/blogs/news/2014/09/16/ultimaker-la...
Some things that you almost never read about consumer 3D printers:
* 3D printing is hard.
* You cannot print 'everything'. Overhang is always an issue.
* Most prints take hours (as in 'a full day') to print.
* You cannot print fast and have a good quality print.
* There are a ton of factors that influence the print quality.
* Every type / color of filament needs it's own settings based on trial and error.
* Great 3D print examples are mostly print on +$50.000 printers.
[1] https://www.ultimaker.com/blogs/news/2014/09/16/ultimaker-la...
I usually come into these threads to say the same thing. From 2000-2003 I did IT support for a lab with SLA, FDM, SLS, LOM, and Z-Corp machines (and wrote some supporting software for many of them).
In addition to your list:
That said, this is the first home 3D printer that I've been excited about, and the price point is killer.
Also, if they haven't licensed tech from 3D Systems, how long before they are sued.
In addition to your list:
* parts often need some type of post processing to
be viable long term (it depends on the process,
support removal, sanding/bead blasting, resin
injection, curing, etc.) this can take many additional
hours.
* different machines have different tolerances
That said, this is the first home 3D printer that I've been excited about, and the price point is killer.
Also, if they haven't licensed tech from 3D Systems, how long before they are sued.
Well I think overhang is still an issue for single extruder FDM printers (like the Dremel one).
The slicer can generate supports but in my experience this will cause some of these issues:
* Print times will double or triple.
* Sometimes its really hard to remove the support material.
* You will need a lot more material.
* Support structures can break while printing because they are thin.
* The slicer doesn't create the right support.
I was extremely high on buying a 3D printer, and then I read this post: http://chopmeister.blogspot.com/2014/08/sifting-through-feat...
I think I'm going to wait a while before buying.
I think I'm going to wait a while before buying.
I bought a cupcake back when they were kits. It was fun to build. Soldering my own stepper drivers was kind of cool. They were a great step between nothing and full DIY. I feel like i could build one from scrounged parts now.
It's not a good printer. belts slip, hard to keep the heat consistent or even know what a good heat is for a given model. i can futz around with it for a couple of hours and then get good prints for a while, but any downtime and i forget all the special little tweaks to get a good print. I probably have around a 1 to 2 ratio of successful prints to failures.
Fundamentally, the thing that's holding back 3d is the design software. openscad is great for what it is, but it's not like amazing. Desktop publishing really take off till mom could print a banner on the old dot matrix. Something like Broderbund's Print shop pro.
Heck, a clip on my dishwasher broke. it was way easier to just order the part. I still feel a little guilty about not printing up a replacement, but it would be dozens of hours for a $10 part.
They are a fun toy, i'd recommend going reprap or something and just figuring out how to make one. Actually doing useful work with one (even a cheap commercial one) would require a lot of discipline and willingness to fiddle with things.
If you just want one to design your own parts, hit up shapeways or one of the alternatives. send them your dxf get a thing. it's cool.
Regardless, diy or outsource, I'll bet you a nickle the design software is what holds you back. Blender is awesome, but not easy. openSCAD is awesome but not easy. etc...
It's not a good printer. belts slip, hard to keep the heat consistent or even know what a good heat is for a given model. i can futz around with it for a couple of hours and then get good prints for a while, but any downtime and i forget all the special little tweaks to get a good print. I probably have around a 1 to 2 ratio of successful prints to failures.
Fundamentally, the thing that's holding back 3d is the design software. openscad is great for what it is, but it's not like amazing. Desktop publishing really take off till mom could print a banner on the old dot matrix. Something like Broderbund's Print shop pro.
Heck, a clip on my dishwasher broke. it was way easier to just order the part. I still feel a little guilty about not printing up a replacement, but it would be dozens of hours for a $10 part.
They are a fun toy, i'd recommend going reprap or something and just figuring out how to make one. Actually doing useful work with one (even a cheap commercial one) would require a lot of discipline and willingness to fiddle with things.
If you just want one to design your own parts, hit up shapeways or one of the alternatives. send them your dxf get a thing. it's cool.
Regardless, diy or outsource, I'll bet you a nickle the design software is what holds you back. Blender is awesome, but not easy. openSCAD is awesome but not easy. etc...
> it would be dozens of hours for a $10 part.
Yes, but then you upload the design to Thingiverse or similar, and it becomes 30 minutes (plus printing time) for the rest of the world.
And 30 mins may in itself be unjustifiable to save $10... but ordering the part online will probably take time too...
Yes, but then you upload the design to Thingiverse or similar, and it becomes 30 minutes (plus printing time) for the rest of the world.
And 30 mins may in itself be unjustifiable to save $10... but ordering the part online will probably take time too...
Seems like Dremel did the 3DPer first because it's all the hype, but with desktop CNCs like Shapeoko, OtherMill, NomadCNC, etc. coming out, and Dremel being ::the:: company of mini-router spindles, they'll probably come out with desktop CNC mill soon.
$2200 for the Othermill and $2500 for the Nomad for what amount to hobbyist machines seems way too high, especially for being unable to cut steel, and having such limited tool sizes. I'd also venture a guess that the speeds for cutting aluminum are pretty slow, and you're probably taking very thin passes.
For $3900, you can get a proper mill with a retrofit kit, controller and software:
Mill: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704
Retrofit Kit: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Mill-Retrofit-Kit-Compa...
This will cut steel, accepts tools up to 7/8", has a 1HP spindle motor, a much larger work volume, higher feedrates, etc.
I realize that there are plenty of applications that can be satisfied with wood and plastic, but making precise metal parts are really the killer app of CNC Mills.
For $3900, you can get a proper mill with a retrofit kit, controller and software:
Mill: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704
Retrofit Kit: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Mill-Retrofit-Kit-Compa...
This will cut steel, accepts tools up to 7/8", has a 1HP spindle motor, a much larger work volume, higher feedrates, etc.
I realize that there are plenty of applications that can be satisfied with wood and plastic, but making precise metal parts are really the killer app of CNC Mills.
Having played around with 3d printers for the last couple of years I have to say that they are an indispensable tool for makers/hackers/inventors/artist types. However for mass market as many here have said we are just not there yet.
To get there we really need to have a few innovative large manufacturers start publishing replacement part CAD models for their products. Making that leap is obviously a big deal for a lot of manufacturers who make outstanding margin on their replacement parts, but that is the kind of thing we need in order for a printer to be useful to the truly mass market.
Additionally, and I think we're seeing this already, we need a lot more 3d printable products to come to market. For example, I just recently finished printing a Clug bike rack for a friend (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/834664305/clug-cycle-st...). This is a prime example of bringing 3d printing to the general public - they provide a high quality version you can buy, or a cheap 3d printable version which you can pay a lot less for just the 3d files. We worked out that with the model cost and the material cost you could print somewhere in the region of 30 replacements before it was more economical to buy the mass produced high quality version. Thus far the rack hasn't broke yet either!
To get there we really need to have a few innovative large manufacturers start publishing replacement part CAD models for their products. Making that leap is obviously a big deal for a lot of manufacturers who make outstanding margin on their replacement parts, but that is the kind of thing we need in order for a printer to be useful to the truly mass market.
Additionally, and I think we're seeing this already, we need a lot more 3d printable products to come to market. For example, I just recently finished printing a Clug bike rack for a friend (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/834664305/clug-cycle-st...). This is a prime example of bringing 3d printing to the general public - they provide a high quality version you can buy, or a cheap 3d printable version which you can pay a lot less for just the 3d files. We worked out that with the model cost and the material cost you could print somewhere in the region of 30 replacements before it was more economical to buy the mass produced high quality version. Thus far the rack hasn't broke yet either!
Just another clone of a printer that cloned their ideas from reprap. Nothing to see here except the line where they state they have locked down your options in software...great idea...eliminate user controls...that should make it more user friendly.
The only reason to eliminate those features is so that you are locked into using their consumables (or maybe to avoid some patent issue in the case of the variable infill).
It is sad that these are the types of printers that get attention. Nothing special about the design, build area or pretty much anything but it has a Dremel logo so of course it will sell.
Just another company trying to jump onto the already crowded 3d printing wave. I am sure there are more to come.
The only reason to eliminate those features is so that you are locked into using their consumables (or maybe to avoid some patent issue in the case of the variable infill).
It is sad that these are the types of printers that get attention. Nothing special about the design, build area or pretty much anything but it has a Dremel logo so of course it will sell.
Just another company trying to jump onto the already crowded 3d printing wave. I am sure there are more to come.
Apparently my opinion is not a popular one :) That is fine. I have been a very active member of the reprap community for 3.5 years and have watched printers come at a rate of about 1-2 per week for the last 2 years...every one has new hype but they are all the same thing. Same linear motion, same lack of heated bed, same everything. Even the stated resolution tends to be the same...always based on theoretical stepper placement and rarely takes actual xy resolution due to nozzle size into account.
I think it is great people want to bring printing to the masses but locking the user out of temperature, infill, and other settings is not a good way to do it. Sure you eliminate their choices thereby eliminating user error...but in my case I would only be able to print about 75% of the things I do without being able to control the variables currently available in the slicers/firmware. There are many times even mid print where I vary the temperature, extrusion steps/mm and accel.
I guess it must be too much to ask that there be some actual innovation...instead of just offering the same printer that many others are selling with locked down controls (and I am assuming closed source firmware).
Smoothieware is becoming more popular and that is ARM based and has been around for over 2 years. The fact this printer has an ARM based electronics platform is not as "new" as it may seem...but of course it is much better than the atmega stuff.
I think it is great people want to bring printing to the masses but locking the user out of temperature, infill, and other settings is not a good way to do it. Sure you eliminate their choices thereby eliminating user error...but in my case I would only be able to print about 75% of the things I do without being able to control the variables currently available in the slicers/firmware. There are many times even mid print where I vary the temperature, extrusion steps/mm and accel.
I guess it must be too much to ask that there be some actual innovation...instead of just offering the same printer that many others are selling with locked down controls (and I am assuming closed source firmware).
Smoothieware is becoming more popular and that is ARM based and has been around for over 2 years. The fact this printer has an ARM based electronics platform is not as "new" as it may seem...but of course it is much better than the atmega stuff.
Seems like Dremel would be better positioned to offer a mass-market small CNC machine. They have no background or corporate strengths in the additive-manufacturing business.
That's already covered by Unimat for a long time:
http://www.thecooltool.com/en/products/unimat-metalline/unim...
There is a CNC pack which contains steppers, control systems and software:
http://www.thecooltool.com/en/products/unimat-metalline/unim...
I own the non-CNC unit and it's a fine piece of engineering!
http://www.thecooltool.com/en/products/unimat-metalline/unim...
There is a CNC pack which contains steppers, control systems and software:
http://www.thecooltool.com/en/products/unimat-metalline/unim...
I own the non-CNC unit and it's a fine piece of engineering!
but there were no CNC prototypes in the makerspace they could license and slap their name on and put in a box... 3D printers though... overpriced and will be on clearance rack in 5-6 months where we can get them for a few hundred which will be a great deal.
ShapeOko is a low-cost open source hardware CNC machine. The license (CC BY-SA) is quite liberal and business friendly.
http://www.shapeoko.com/ https://github.com/shapeoko/Shapeoko_2
http://www.shapeoko.com/ https://github.com/shapeoko/Shapeoko_2
I know and I just finished putting my Shapeoko together. It's not something you can package and resell like they did with the Dremel 3d printer. Even after I put all the parts together and verified the wiring, the configuration and setup on Shapeoko took hours. Not something most people who are new to all of this would probably be happy about. My build was helped by already having a few printrbot simples and a commercial CNC machine in my wood shop.
What limitations on materials does this have? They mention a lack of heating but I don't know enough about 3d printers to know what that means it doesn't support.
It means it doesn't support ABS.
ABS is a sturdier plastic that's more resistant to heat, light, water, etc. The Dremel can only do PLA. The major difference when printing is that ABS shrinks when it cools so you need to keep the base of the print hot to keep it from popping off of the print bed. So ABS is a little more work but is a sturdier plastic.
I've played around with both, and the extruder printers are generally vastly inferior to the printers that use lasers.
Laser based 3d printers (largely Selective laser sintering and stereolithography) also tend to be far, far more expensive than FDM (extruder based) machines. There are some pretty good FDMs that are approaching the point where you can't see or feel the individual layers in the print.
Can one even buy a consumer SLS printer? I was under the impression that the cheapest SLS printer is still around 50k.
I have seen a little bit of work in the area of people using laser engravers (you can get one for about $2k out of china) as minimal SLS machines. Other than that I don't think there is any SLS printer in the hobbyist arena.
This SLA printer is actually pretty good for ~$2k https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fsl/pegasus-touch-laser...
I wonder if they'd be interested in my laser cutter attachment.
http://robots-everywhere.com/re_wiki/index.php?n=Main.LCheap...
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One serious question. How many have bought a 3D printer, played with it for a bit, and then it stayed gathering dust in the corner of the room?
The key now for any Mass-Market printer manufacturer is to "go apple". Support a proprietary format so you can only print those out on their printer, and have a "store" full of stuff you can download and print off. Populate the store with unbelievably professionally modeled thingamabobs to kick it off. Let people put up their own models, and even set price points to download the model, but don't charge for each copy.
To think of all that Dremel's destroyed, now, it can create.
Have we moved beyond selling $4 trinkets on esty with these things?
Great to see backing from more established manufacturers for home 3D printing.
However, am I the only person who thinks the first photo looks like they're microwaving a mouse?
However, am I the only person who thinks the first photo looks like they're microwaving a mouse?
They're microwaving a frog. Who eats mice, anyway? Ewww. Now frogs, there's some good eatin'.
a frog
The Dremel site is unfortunately lacking the pricing. They note that it's available for purchase on Amazon, but it isn't as far as I can tell.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...
$999 according to the article.
Thats actually pretty reasonable provided the print quality warrants the price tag. I would buy it for that price if it could print things with enough structural support for every day use.
Its a flashforge dreamer with one extruder ripped out and the heatbed removed running autodesk 123 software. Dremel had very little to do with building it except deciding where the logos will go.
1K, I think there are plenty of others out there with more intriguing designs. Whats interesting is the distribution channel though. The article mentions Home Depot...so does that mean it will be next to makerbot products?
Neat, but I still don't feel that I need one now, or that I'll need one in the next few years. I guess I haven't really seen what useful things can be made with 3D printers...almost everything from them I've seen IRL is either a small statue or jewelry.
This is invariably the top comment in any thread here about 3D printing. And yes, if you're not in the habit of making things (whether for fun or professionally) without a 3D printer, then you probably won't find much use for one. Most people never interact with unique objects, objects which aren't produced by the thousands or millions. And those types of mass produced objects can be made much more easily and well using traditional manufacturing.
I agree that 90% of the 3D printing going on is just for novelty items like jewelry or statues, which doesn't seem worth it to me. But if the novelty printers provide enough of a market to ensure the availability of printers for people who are using them for inventions or scientific instruments, then it's fine with me.
Things I've printed in the last few months:
* a bracket for installing a PID controller into my homemade sous vide cooker
* brackets for clamping a shaft and pulley into a specific configuration for a tension testing rig
* a tiny clamp for holding ceramic fibers in said test rig
* an adapter for mounting a custom optical filter to a camera
* a prototype of a new strain measuring device
I agree that 90% of the 3D printing going on is just for novelty items like jewelry or statues, which doesn't seem worth it to me. But if the novelty printers provide enough of a market to ensure the availability of printers for people who are using them for inventions or scientific instruments, then it's fine with me.
Things I've printed in the last few months:
* a bracket for installing a PID controller into my homemade sous vide cooker
* brackets for clamping a shaft and pulley into a specific configuration for a tension testing rig
* a tiny clamp for holding ceramic fibers in said test rig
* an adapter for mounting a custom optical filter to a camera
* a prototype of a new strain measuring device
I'm a mechanical engineer and I use 3D printing for countless things at work and occasionally in my own life but unless you are making things at home at least once a month it doesn't make sense to have your own and I think that is what the OP is saying. The idea of a "household" 3D printer doesn't appeal to him because like most consumers they don't want to make things they just want to buy them.
If you think of the 3D printer more like a tablesaw and less like a microwave the market shrinks but the use case becomes much more clear.
If you think of the 3D printer more like a tablesaw and less like a microwave the market shrinks but the use case becomes much more clear.
I always though this was especially weird because someone who would get that amount of use or more out of one probably wants something _really_ awesome and not something cheap. Maybe even something that could print metal?
I get the super cheap novelty use. After that I thought what you want is a service to send your design to and get an awesome quality piece back.
I get the super cheap novelty use. After that I thought what you want is a service to send your design to and get an awesome quality piece back.
> someone who would get that amount of use or more out of one probably wants something _really_ awesome and not something cheap.
You're forgetting about what was the primary driving force behind commercial 3D printers, which is hobbyists who don't have money for a full machine shop. Those are the people who popularized assembling Rep-Raps, and who are now buying cheap printers to play with them and use for their projects.
If you're a professional with a good idea what you're going to do with the printer, you definitely should go for something expensive. But if you're just a Joe Random Hacker, you probably can't afford anything more than the cheap one (and even if you could, you also need money to buy other parts for hardware projects).
You're forgetting about what was the primary driving force behind commercial 3D printers, which is hobbyists who don't have money for a full machine shop. Those are the people who popularized assembling Rep-Raps, and who are now buying cheap printers to play with them and use for their projects.
If you're a professional with a good idea what you're going to do with the printer, you definitely should go for something expensive. But if you're just a Joe Random Hacker, you probably can't afford anything more than the cheap one (and even if you could, you also need money to buy other parts for hardware projects).
I may want something awesome, but wanting something now is a higher priority. When prototyping, I value my time and how fast I can iterate through the create-test-modify cycle more than build quality. At home, the quality has to be good enough, but not perfect.
the most obvious application is replacing parts - replacement battery covers, game/toy parts, buttons, small pieces of car trim, really anything smallish and plastic that gets lost or broken could be replaced with a 3d printer.
potential replacement for non plastic parts too depending on the application.
also customizing parts. Custom dice for games, etc etc.
potential replacement for non plastic parts too depending on the application.
also customizing parts. Custom dice for games, etc etc.
Are any of those things really a problem in an age of cheap disposable crap, though?
Battery cover gets lost? Replace the whole thing.
Toy breaks? Replace the whole thing.
Button comes off your jacket? Replace the whole thing.
(I'm not saying this is an ideal world -- I personally would much rather live in a world where things are long-lived but cost more -- but it's the world we live in.)
Battery cover gets lost? Replace the whole thing.
Toy breaks? Replace the whole thing.
Button comes off your jacket? Replace the whole thing.
(I'm not saying this is an ideal world -- I personally would much rather live in a world where things are long-lived but cost more -- but it's the world we live in.)
I've been keeping a list of all the things I could have 3D-printed if I had a 3D printer. Maybe some of these will pique your interest:
* Mounts for my washing machine's broken shocks (shocks were fine but the plastic part that holds them to the frame broke). $80/piece for whole new shocks or I could have just printed new mounts (which really are a stupidly simple snap-on component) for less than a dollar.
* The knob on one of our standing lamps broke and won't stay on anymore. I can order a new one for $1.50+$4.95 S/H or I could have just 3D-printed a really cool/custom one for $0.05.
* Lost some of the pieces in your Monopoly game? Just print some new ones. Heck, any gaming figurines can be printed trivially and there's a plethora of free, already-made ones to choose from.
* Missing Lego parts.
* Vacuum cleaner parts... I always wanted one of those wide under-furniture attachments but can't justify the purchase. If I had a 3D printer I could just print one.
* Seriously cool-looking/unique ceiling fan blades (you can print them even on a small 3D printer since you can join multiple parts together on the back of the blade where no one will see).
* Seriously cool/useful wall plates and switches. Example: http://www.yankodesign.com/2007/10/28/wall-cleat/
* Collar tags for my dogs. Actually, whole collars.
* Children's toys.
* Halloween masks.
* Protractors and compasses of any size on-demand.
* Centering gauges of any size on-demand.
* Custom Tupperware-like containers/boxes.
* Phone cases.
* Mounts for my washing machine's broken shocks (shocks were fine but the plastic part that holds them to the frame broke). $80/piece for whole new shocks or I could have just printed new mounts (which really are a stupidly simple snap-on component) for less than a dollar.
* The knob on one of our standing lamps broke and won't stay on anymore. I can order a new one for $1.50+$4.95 S/H or I could have just 3D-printed a really cool/custom one for $0.05.
* Lost some of the pieces in your Monopoly game? Just print some new ones. Heck, any gaming figurines can be printed trivially and there's a plethora of free, already-made ones to choose from.
* Missing Lego parts.
* Vacuum cleaner parts... I always wanted one of those wide under-furniture attachments but can't justify the purchase. If I had a 3D printer I could just print one.
* Seriously cool-looking/unique ceiling fan blades (you can print them even on a small 3D printer since you can join multiple parts together on the back of the blade where no one will see).
* Seriously cool/useful wall plates and switches. Example: http://www.yankodesign.com/2007/10/28/wall-cleat/
* Collar tags for my dogs. Actually, whole collars.
* Children's toys.
* Halloween masks.
* Protractors and compasses of any size on-demand.
* Centering gauges of any size on-demand.
* Custom Tupperware-like containers/boxes.
* Phone cases.
> The knob on one of our standing lamps broke and won't stay on anymore. I can order a new one for $1.50+$4.95 S/H or I could have just 3D-printed a really cool/custom one for $0.05.
Six bucks and change doesn't sound too bad to me, if it saves me having to spend time tracking down or building an appropriate 3D model to print. I could understand the attraction if it was $100, but six bucks?
> Lost some of the pieces in your Monopoly game? Just print some new ones. Heck, any gaming figurines can be printed trivially and there's a plethora of free, already-made ones to choose from.
But you can also use more or less any random thing you have lying around as a board game token, for free. Coins, thumb caps, washers, pieces of wood...
> Missing Lego parts.
Would they be able to stand up to daily use for years by enthusiastic children?
Lego parts also fit pretty well into the "just go buy some more" approach, too. You can get a bucket of 600 Lego bricks for $30.
> Seriously cool-looking/unique ceiling fan blades... seriously cool/useful wall plates and switches...
Presumably if lots of people wanted these things, somebody would be making them at scale in China already, no? It's fine if you want them, more power to you, but they don't really seem like something the mass market is breathlessly waiting for.
> Collar tags for my dogs.. children's toys... Halloween masks... protractors and compasses of any size... phone cases...
These things are the very definition of "cheap plastic crap," already available in a stunning kaleidoscope of colors, shapes and sizes at every retail environment from gas stations on up for practically nothing.
Not to mention that things like children's toys have a status component to them that can't be 3D printed. Kids don't want a toy that kinda looks like Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy, they want an Official Groot™ Action Figure By Hasbro like the one they've been saturation-bombed with TV advertising for. (And if they don't, their friends will happily torment them for not being sufficiently brand-conscious.)
> Custom Tupperware-like containers/boxes.
Is 3D-printer plastic safe to use for food storage?
Will most people want to spend time finding out when they can get a set of five Tupperware containers for $30?
Six bucks and change doesn't sound too bad to me, if it saves me having to spend time tracking down or building an appropriate 3D model to print. I could understand the attraction if it was $100, but six bucks?
> Lost some of the pieces in your Monopoly game? Just print some new ones. Heck, any gaming figurines can be printed trivially and there's a plethora of free, already-made ones to choose from.
But you can also use more or less any random thing you have lying around as a board game token, for free. Coins, thumb caps, washers, pieces of wood...
> Missing Lego parts.
Would they be able to stand up to daily use for years by enthusiastic children?
Lego parts also fit pretty well into the "just go buy some more" approach, too. You can get a bucket of 600 Lego bricks for $30.
> Seriously cool-looking/unique ceiling fan blades... seriously cool/useful wall plates and switches...
Presumably if lots of people wanted these things, somebody would be making them at scale in China already, no? It's fine if you want them, more power to you, but they don't really seem like something the mass market is breathlessly waiting for.
> Collar tags for my dogs.. children's toys... Halloween masks... protractors and compasses of any size... phone cases...
These things are the very definition of "cheap plastic crap," already available in a stunning kaleidoscope of colors, shapes and sizes at every retail environment from gas stations on up for practically nothing.
Not to mention that things like children's toys have a status component to them that can't be 3D printed. Kids don't want a toy that kinda looks like Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy, they want an Official Groot™ Action Figure By Hasbro like the one they've been saturation-bombed with TV advertising for. (And if they don't, their friends will happily torment them for not being sufficiently brand-conscious.)
> Custom Tupperware-like containers/boxes.
Is 3D-printer plastic safe to use for food storage?
Will most people want to spend time finding out when they can get a set of five Tupperware containers for $30?
> > > Missing Lego parts.
> Would they be able to stand up to daily use for years by enthusiastic children?
They wouldn't need to if you could just print replacements.
The real problem with 3D printing lego bricks is that I don't think any current 3D printers can print precise enough parts. Even most Lego competitors produce inferior quality pieces with less precision.
> Lego parts also fit pretty well into the "just go buy some more" approach, too. You can get a bucket of 600 Lego bricks for $30.
You'd think so. But now try to source specific parts. specific mini figures etc.. People make a living buying Lego sets to separate the sets and sell rare mini figures and pieces individually, and sell of the basic pieces in larger lots
Many pieces are only available in a handful of sets. Many pieces only exist in discontinued sets. Many pieces only exist in specific colors.
Go to a Lego store, and you will find that the more "advanced" parts are rarely on offer in anything but big sets, while the basic parts can be bought by the bucketful.
Even with the second hand market, if you're trying to reproduce something, and realise you're missing a specific part and the alternative is going to the shops and buying a set that may have the piece, or waiting a few days, being able to just start an app and pick one from a catalogue would be amazing.
There's also a market for custom minifigs, that are today often quite expensive because the people making them rarely have any options for mass production. Whole new categories both of minifigs and pieces would become possible if they could be 3D printed.
> Presumably if lots of people wanted these things, somebody would be making them at scale in China already, no? It's fine if you want them, more power to you, but they don't really seem like something the mass market is breathlessly waiting for.
There's a lot of potential for things that are impractical to mass produce because while people may agree they want the category of product, they may disagree about specific features sufficiently that the only commercially available alternatives are not that satisfactory.
And there are a lot of things that would be convenient to have at some point or other, but that is too much effort to be worth tracking down, but would be nice if you could just download and print a design in minutes.
> Kids don't want a toy that kinda looks like Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy, they want an Official Groot™ Action Figure By Hasbro like the one they've been saturation-bombed with TV advertising for.
Do you have a kid? I can for sure say that while my son certainly do want the exact specific versions of a lot of things, he also often picks up on things that are not branded, or the exact specific thing he want is not the professional, polished version. And I think TV will be losing it's hold: My son just now (and this is a regular occurrence) picked an amateur Youtube video over Cartoon Network. His favourite "show" is a Youtube channel hosted by a 6-7 year old kid that builds lego and plays video games.
(and for the purposes of this: LEGO has surpassed Hasbro as the top toy manufacturer in the world - that should say something about opportunities in this market)
> Will most people want to spend time finding out when they can get a set of five Tupperware containers for $30?
Quite possibly not. But that is a problem today because it is new. It will quickly cease to be a problem.
> Would they be able to stand up to daily use for years by enthusiastic children?
They wouldn't need to if you could just print replacements.
The real problem with 3D printing lego bricks is that I don't think any current 3D printers can print precise enough parts. Even most Lego competitors produce inferior quality pieces with less precision.
> Lego parts also fit pretty well into the "just go buy some more" approach, too. You can get a bucket of 600 Lego bricks for $30.
You'd think so. But now try to source specific parts. specific mini figures etc.. People make a living buying Lego sets to separate the sets and sell rare mini figures and pieces individually, and sell of the basic pieces in larger lots
Many pieces are only available in a handful of sets. Many pieces only exist in discontinued sets. Many pieces only exist in specific colors.
Go to a Lego store, and you will find that the more "advanced" parts are rarely on offer in anything but big sets, while the basic parts can be bought by the bucketful.
Even with the second hand market, if you're trying to reproduce something, and realise you're missing a specific part and the alternative is going to the shops and buying a set that may have the piece, or waiting a few days, being able to just start an app and pick one from a catalogue would be amazing.
There's also a market for custom minifigs, that are today often quite expensive because the people making them rarely have any options for mass production. Whole new categories both of minifigs and pieces would become possible if they could be 3D printed.
> Presumably if lots of people wanted these things, somebody would be making them at scale in China already, no? It's fine if you want them, more power to you, but they don't really seem like something the mass market is breathlessly waiting for.
There's a lot of potential for things that are impractical to mass produce because while people may agree they want the category of product, they may disagree about specific features sufficiently that the only commercially available alternatives are not that satisfactory.
And there are a lot of things that would be convenient to have at some point or other, but that is too much effort to be worth tracking down, but would be nice if you could just download and print a design in minutes.
> Kids don't want a toy that kinda looks like Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy, they want an Official Groot™ Action Figure By Hasbro like the one they've been saturation-bombed with TV advertising for.
Do you have a kid? I can for sure say that while my son certainly do want the exact specific versions of a lot of things, he also often picks up on things that are not branded, or the exact specific thing he want is not the professional, polished version. And I think TV will be losing it's hold: My son just now (and this is a regular occurrence) picked an amateur Youtube video over Cartoon Network. His favourite "show" is a Youtube channel hosted by a 6-7 year old kid that builds lego and plays video games.
(and for the purposes of this: LEGO has surpassed Hasbro as the top toy manufacturer in the world - that should say something about opportunities in this market)
> Will most people want to spend time finding out when they can get a set of five Tupperware containers for $30?
Quite possibly not. But that is a problem today because it is new. It will quickly cease to be a problem.
> His favourite "show" is a Youtube channel hosted by a 6-7 year old kid that builds lego and plays video games.
Would you mind sharing that link? I've got some kids who would be interested.
Would you mind sharing that link? I've got some kids who would be interested.
Search for EvanTube. To be clear, they're clearly making quite a bit of money from it - it's not all innocent kid making his own videos just for fun (my son does enjoy those kind of videos too) - unsurprisingly since it's effectively hours after hours of toy / videogame advertising, and they have a fairly professional setup.
My son, though, interestingly doesn't often ask for any of the stuff he showcases, though he does ask me to help build home-grown versions of some of the lego. And it got him into Minecraft.
My son now wants his own YouTube channel (lucky me - I've been put in charge of getting the technical side sorted out), and his own Minecraft server, and Evan is by far his favourite "celebrity". And this is the most professionally produced YouTube channel he watches. In general he seems to care more about watching a kid around his age that he can relate to than how professional the video is (e.g. he actively dislikes a lot of the adults doing toy / videogame review videos)
My son, though, interestingly doesn't often ask for any of the stuff he showcases, though he does ask me to help build home-grown versions of some of the lego. And it got him into Minecraft.
My son now wants his own YouTube channel (lucky me - I've been put in charge of getting the technical side sorted out), and his own Minecraft server, and Evan is by far his favourite "celebrity". And this is the most professionally produced YouTube channel he watches. In general he seems to care more about watching a kid around his age that he can relate to than how professional the video is (e.g. he actively dislikes a lot of the adults doing toy / videogame review videos)
I spend a lot of time socializing with people who build and develop 3D printers at a shop that operates 3D printers as a service. Printers include delta bots, Makerbot 2X, and a CubePro.
Larger parts can be problematic on consumer quality 3D printers (particularly if they aren't being constantly fussed with). Very routinely 3D printer owners seem to have to put large amounts of time in to getting the printer to work correctly, and large complex pieces can take more than one (8+ hour) attempt.
Most of the things larger than a phone case (and it's the height direction that seems particularly problematic) have trouble printing in some fashion or another. This means that several of the most useful applications just aren't there yet.
Larger parts can be problematic on consumer quality 3D printers (particularly if they aren't being constantly fussed with). Very routinely 3D printer owners seem to have to put large amounts of time in to getting the printer to work correctly, and large complex pieces can take more than one (8+ hour) attempt.
Most of the things larger than a phone case (and it's the height direction that seems particularly problematic) have trouble printing in some fashion or another. This means that several of the most useful applications just aren't there yet.
I can't reply to the parent of this, so I'll reply here. PLA is considered food safe, but it can't handle the heat of a dishwasher. I know because of all of the cookie cutters I make for people. Washing makes them warp and brittle.
From experience a pla cup with less than 100% infill will "drink" it's liquid into its interior and have to hope like hell that it hasn't been drinking milk or a substance that rots similarly.
> * Missing Lego parts.
What kind of printer do you have?
I was under the impression no hobbiest-grade (ie, costs < ~$250k) could print to the exacting standards it takes to make Lego bricks.
What kind of printer do you have?
I was under the impression no hobbiest-grade (ie, costs < ~$250k) could print to the exacting standards it takes to make Lego bricks.
I have printed lego compatible parts in the past. About 2 years ago...IIRC they were bases for Warhammer or something like that. https://flic.kr/p/cq7uRf Plus, many of the duplo sized wooden train track adapters ( http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4041 )...which is really one of the benefits of the printer with toys...making mashups that would never be sold by the actual competing toy companies.
* Support for anything that you want to place somewhere the manufacturer didn't forsee. Whant to hang something that can only go on tables? Or put on a table something that must be hanged? Fans position is a problem?
* Wire organizers. Really, why nobody sells a way to organize wires in storage?
I built my printer for a side project, and up to very recently, anything that I printed that wasn't related to this project had the goal of improving the printer. Besides fixing broken stuff, that's what I printed at the last couple of months.
* Wire organizers. Really, why nobody sells a way to organize wires in storage?
I built my printer for a side project, and up to very recently, anything that I printed that wasn't related to this project had the goal of improving the printer. Besides fixing broken stuff, that's what I printed at the last couple of months.
Same here: handle on our washing machine broke (plastic). It's no longer in production and I can't find one anywhere. A printer means never having to upgrade to a new model just because you can't get the parts.
You don't need to own a 3D printer for that, you can just use a 3rd party service to print one for you.
3d printing is a way to extend a product's life. But I think it will prove useful for a repair guy/technician rather than for a hobbyist. Making small series of spares for a unsupported product is profitable vs used spares market. One example are vintage synthesizers. There is such demand for some spares that synths are being dismantled rather than repaired. Sometimes the upper C key (which is unique on a keyboard) can be sold for 50 bucks or more.
The limitation to that logic for me is being concerned about having models for the missing parts. I've got a remote missing a battery cover that I'd love to replace, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to design a model for it.
This one is what started convincing me that there's a useful place for these machines: http://instagram.com/p/kpJz-5Ipcy
"Fruit basket had a couple missing feet so I whipped up some replacements in Tinkercad and printed them out."
"Fruit basket had a couple missing feet so I whipped up some replacements in Tinkercad and printed them out."
I use mine (Prusa i3 reprap design) mostly for camera stuff. I've made a few lens adapters from old manual focus bayonet mounts to my Sony A7, printed the physical housing to get a full-sized speedlite flash mounted to the Fuji Instax 210 instant camera, etc. Pretty ideal for cameras where you are often wanting to mate this thing to that thing with some sort of adapter that may or may not exist otherwise or might cost a ridiculous amount of money for what it is due to relatively low demand for the part.
That's awesome! Are those parts open-source anywhere? Also, curious as to how sturdy those are and what exactly they're made from. In my (quite limited) experience handling printed parts, they didn't really seem like the type of thing I'd trust to hold something expensive + fragile like a camera lens.
I've put a couple of things on Thingiverse, including a lens mount design:
https://support.thingiverse.com/thing:330812
Someday I need to clean up a bunch of other things and figure out what the cool kids are using to share designs instead of thingiverse now that Makerbot is kind of shunned by large portions of the open 3d printer community.
I print parts for my cameras in ABS which is pretty strong and has a nice side benefit in that if it ever does fail, it fails in a slow stretchy sort of way as opposed to just exploding like PLA plastic does.
I'm not sure what type of plastic the pieces you've held are but there's a really wide range of available materials ranging from really brittle to really strong (also with various degrees of heat tolerance in the end part).
I've used the lens adapters quite extensively and haven't had anything fail yet and some of the lenses I use with them are large old lens designs from the late 70s which tend to be quite heavy.
https://support.thingiverse.com/thing:330812
Someday I need to clean up a bunch of other things and figure out what the cool kids are using to share designs instead of thingiverse now that Makerbot is kind of shunned by large portions of the open 3d printer community.
I print parts for my cameras in ABS which is pretty strong and has a nice side benefit in that if it ever does fail, it fails in a slow stretchy sort of way as opposed to just exploding like PLA plastic does.
I'm not sure what type of plastic the pieces you've held are but there's a really wide range of available materials ranging from really brittle to really strong (also with various degrees of heat tolerance in the end part).
I've used the lens adapters quite extensively and haven't had anything fail yet and some of the lenses I use with them are large old lens designs from the late 70s which tend to be quite heavy.
A "killer app" would be one that'd be sufficiently good to do lego-style bricks of decent quality. It will require a leap in quality, though.
I felt that way until I realized that 3d printing could be the lego for the next generation of kids. Hell, start with legos, then print out the parts that you wish you had, and refine until you've got something that's actually "maker worthy."
Save the files, then start on your next project. Add a microcontroller! yay! I'm completely projecting on my kid, and that's my right as a father! Muahahaha!
Save the files, then start on your next project. Add a microcontroller! yay! I'm completely projecting on my kid, and that's my right as a father! Muahahaha!
With Dremel, they serve dual markets. Their equipment serves both art and general-purpose handyman tools.
interesting that it's a 3d printer - would have thought a desktop CNC milling machine would be closer to their traditional high-RPM switchable-toolhead powertool business.
If they offered a sub-$2k CNC machine, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Now that I think about it, I should probably see what I can actually find for sale...
Now that I think about it, I should probably see what I can actually find for sale...
Check out the shapeoko 2. It is about $700-$800 for the full thing. You do have to assemble it which takes a day or two. Inventables donated one to the hackerspace I belong to. I've used it a few times and it is pretty nice for what it is.
There are lots of good CNCs on amazon for $800 that don't require assembly at all. If you need to cut into steel, the ones on amazon will be much better than the shapeoko.
which ones would you recommend? this appeals far more than 3D printing.
> Dremel Releases a Mass-Market 3D Printer
> and a $999 price point
No. A 3D printer that's over $500 won't be mass market. Even $500 is probably too high. Most people might buy one if it's only $300 (with good enough quality - which could happen years from now). My guess is it will be another decade before normal families consider a cheap 3D printer, and only then it's when 3D printers will be "mass-market".
> and a $999 price point
No. A 3D printer that's over $500 won't be mass market. Even $500 is probably too high. Most people might buy one if it's only $300 (with good enough quality - which could happen years from now). My guess is it will be another decade before normal families consider a cheap 3D printer, and only then it's when 3D printers will be "mass-market".
According to the internet ( http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=595+1986+dollars ), my mother paid $1289 for our ImageWriter II in 1986.
Mass market doesn't have to mean 100 million. 1 million is plenty.
Mass market doesn't have to mean 100 million. 1 million is plenty.
Gates: We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next 2 years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next 10.
Nonsense. All it takes is for the utility of the thing to match or best its price. For example, if the average, every day person is told that they could use a 3D printer to save thousands on car parts, vacuum cleaner parts, and similar it won't take long before everyone has one in their house (or is regularly pestering their neighbor to use theirs, haha). Even at $1000.
And it's not just the cost. Printing things has to be as easy as printing text which can still be annoying. Maybe someday there will be a sequel to Office Space in which they destroy a 3d-printer with the futuristic equivalent of baseball bats.
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I got my first Dremel tool in 1982 and have always had one since. I love those things more than I can express.
This is awesome. It may not really have anything to do with their "moto-tool", but it just warms my heart to see their name on it.
This is awesome. It may not really have anything to do with their "moto-tool", but it just warms my heart to see their name on it.
I replaced mine with a $20 Chinese knockoff when their crappy speed controller burned out. Good riddance. Don't know why they can't figure out how to design brushes that don't jam in the housing either.
The newer models are unfortunately crappier. When I got my first one (when I was in high school) it was the only option, and high enough quality.
The one I have now is about 15 years old and has gotten a ton of use and abuse.
The one I have now is about 15 years old and has gotten a ton of use and abuse.