Michelin Airless(michelin.com)
michelin.com
Michelin Airless
https://www.michelin.com/en/innovation/vision-concept/airless/
308 comments
I don't worry about punctures at all, despite living in a country with a shitty roads. What I worry about A LOT is a catastrophic collision of tire with a 90 degree sharp pothole edge, often made by roadworkers before doing point repair, which potentially can destroy tire irreparably. I wonder if these tires are better protected against such impacts, and just looking at them it seems they are - no side walls which are cut in a strong impact. Looking forward to more impact tests of these tires.
Fun fact, almost half of particulate road pollution comes from conventional tyres.
Not clear whether these new airless tyres will help or worsen that. More resistance = more wear, I would assume. Anyone?
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/195595/worlds-first-device-c...
Not clear whether these new airless tyres will help or worsen that. More resistance = more wear, I would assume. Anyone?
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/195595/worlds-first-device-c...
16 years ago, I was an intern at the European HQ of a Japanese tyre brand.
We received and chain forwarded a "leaked" video of Michelin testing a similar design.
We ICT folks thought we were doomed as it seemed miles ahead of our own R&D.
16 years later and we are yet to see these tyres on the streets.
This time, I'll believe it when I see it ;)
We received and chain forwarded a "leaked" video of Michelin testing a similar design.
We ICT folks thought we were doomed as it seemed miles ahead of our own R&D.
16 years later and we are yet to see these tyres on the streets.
This time, I'll believe it when I see it ;)
The page uses the phrase "revolutionary structure". It's a fascinating pun to make about a wheel. I wonder if it's intentional.
Wouldn't these be great for trailers? Trailer blowouts are common, and often unnoticed, or can heavily damage the trailer. I have no interest in these on a car, but for a trailer, sign me up!
Seems like it's 404ing now; here's a snapshot: https://archive.is/9m1gs
Interesting that they say nothing about consumption. I would expect them to be less fuel efficient, but having some number to go by would be nice.
The magic of the pneumatic (air-filled) tire is that the entire air-filled space of the tire acts to absorb shock and vibration from the road surface.
Airless tires give up this advantage, and only the tire structure between the wheel and contact patch are available to do the same work.
The result is always a heavier tire that is a harsher ride. All the materials science in the world can't and won't find a solution to this. You can safely ignore any airless system for all but the most specialized applications.
Airless tires give up this advantage, and only the tire structure between the wheel and contact patch are available to do the same work.
The result is always a heavier tire that is a harsher ride. All the materials science in the world can't and won't find a solution to this. You can safely ignore any airless system for all but the most specialized applications.
Previous related thread here (about one month ago):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28537549
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28537549
I am skeptical that these will be better for the environment. Maybe there will be fewer tires discarded due to flats, but the tires will weigh more. That's more material discarded per tire and more energy to drive them around.
I remember reading about airless tires back when I was in high school and it seemed like the concept was ready for mass production in a couple years. That was around 2004~5 ish. I wonder how much has changed and how close are others, like bridgestone.
What I like about companies like Apple is when they release something, they explicitly say: "This product will be available in stores starting Oct 15". On Oct 15, you go to apple.com and buy the product online. Done. I can't even count how many years I've heard about airless tires being developed.
Michelin has been talking about these things for years and has yet to actually put them into production. All talk and no show.
I get that "no punctures means less waste", and
"Every year, 20%* of tires are discarded as scrap due to flats and rapid pressure loss (12%) or irregular wear and tear caused by poor tire pressure (8%), i.e., the equivalent of 200 million tires, or 2 million tonnes*. That’s 200 times the weight of the Eiffel Tower."
However, there is still the problem of getting rid of "a flexible load-bearing structure made from glass fiber reinforced plastic (GFRP)".
I would hope there is a way to degrade, reclaim or reuse these materials.
However, there is still the problem of getting rid of "a flexible load-bearing structure made from glass fiber reinforced plastic (GFRP)".
I would hope there is a way to degrade, reclaim or reuse these materials.
I will believe it once I see them drive the same tires on West Michigan roads for 29k miles during the spring. We’ve had highways just disintegrate during the thaw here.
> Airless technology will drastically reduce the number of tires that are scrapped because of punctures.
Well, maybe, but don't these new tires use more rubber instead of air? In which case they will actually increase the amount of discarded tires? Also, what about the recycling potential of these tires?
I'm not an automotive buff, but this claim of being "good for the environment" sounds like just empty marketing talk.
Well, maybe, but don't these new tires use more rubber instead of air? In which case they will actually increase the amount of discarded tires? Also, what about the recycling potential of these tires?
I'm not an automotive buff, but this claim of being "good for the environment" sounds like just empty marketing talk.
What does this mean for those 'severe tire damage' traffic control devices?
I always wonder how these things would stand up to stones getting caught in between the rubber “spokes“.
I wonder, how would airless tires be able to handle offroading? On the one hand they seem like the perfect candidate as running over a rock or stick won't cause the tire to puncture. But on the other hand you loose the ability to air down the tire for more traction.
Weren’t we trying to reduce plastic waste? This seems to need multiple times the amount of rubber that a normal tire needs. And for what? To prevent a fixable puncture that may or may not happen in a lifespan of a tire?
Do tire manufacturers really have the desire to develop tires with less tear?
I'm unimpressed with their pilot location choice. Las Vegas?
Chicago or NYC would be much more of a proper test with potholes, humidity, potholes, temperature, potholes, and precipitation. Did I mention potholes.
Chicago or NYC would be much more of a proper test with potholes, humidity, potholes, temperature, potholes, and precipitation. Did I mention potholes.
I wonder what the speed rating of these will be.
(I'd guess they would overheat really fast if you drove them even moderately fast, plus the inertia would be pretty insane?)
(I'd guess they would overheat really fast if you drove them even moderately fast, plus the inertia would be pretty insane?)
Good video I just found
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql0Mkr3dwNU
shouldnt they be “closed” laterally for aerodynamics, to block dirt and snow from getting stuck inside? guess these will collect dirt 100 times more than regular tires no?
update: similar questions here https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=206&v=sc8ghIqKqnI&...
update: similar questions here https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=206&v=sc8ghIqKqnI&...
I have airless tires in the same bucket as flying-cars and video-phones (things that sort of exist, but are always just around the corner from being widely adopted).
(I realize that video-phones are kind of widely adopted now via Zoom/Facetime/etc. - I'm thinking more of the vision from the 90s of a telephone with a screen in your kitchen)
(I realize that video-phones are kind of widely adopted now via Zoom/Facetime/etc. - I'm thinking more of the vision from the 90s of a telephone with a screen in your kitchen)
Cool stuff. I hope they make it onto the road. What was really interesting to me is that the page suggests that most of their on road testing is done in the US. Michelin is a French company and there are lots of good European card companies. Does anyone know why they wouldn't do their testing in Europe?
Also handy for Michelin revenues that the wheel is integrated.
Yes, I get that it might be hard for them to be separate.
Yes, I get that it might be hard for them to be separate.
It's dirty out here in the real world. What happens when those grooves get plugged up with mud, bits of glass & other tires and dead squirrels?
But I'll admit, I do want the "Picyures to download".
They seem to be marketing these alongside EVs, I wonder if they're only really intended for lighter, compact-style cars. (Edit: I'm talking about EVs like the BMW i3, which are on average about 1000 lbs lighter than the cars most Americans drive, ie, the CUV/SUV form factor.)