Vastrm (YC S12) Promises The Perfect Fitting Polo(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Vastrm (YC S12) Promises The Perfect Fitting Polo
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/09/y-combinators-vastrm-promises-the-perfect-fitting-polo/
20 comments
We can totally help you! ping me and we'll get you set up with a polo that fits you perfect!
You should do a how-to measure yourself video like these guys: Bombay shirt company http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88bD0Udwswk
love it. great video. yes, we will create one of these for guidance.
This is a really cool idea. I could see some disruption in the online shopping industry via their Zappos-like model.
I don't feel inclined to buy a polo, however. I care about comfort, brand, and fit - in that order. I have never had a problem with one of the default sizes in practically every brand. Perhaps there is a bigger market for fitted polos though; I'm sure the Vastrm guys know more than I do!
Nearly every girl I know shops for clothes over the internet and I also assume they would be more inclined to want a perfect fit - but I'm sure women's clothing is more logistically difficult to create. Hopefully they work on adding women's clothing, anything, before expanding their men's collection.
I'll be interested to see how this goes.
I don't feel inclined to buy a polo, however. I care about comfort, brand, and fit - in that order. I have never had a problem with one of the default sizes in practically every brand. Perhaps there is a bigger market for fitted polos though; I'm sure the Vastrm guys know more than I do!
Nearly every girl I know shops for clothes over the internet and I also assume they would be more inclined to want a perfect fit - but I'm sure women's clothing is more logistically difficult to create. Hopefully they work on adding women's clothing, anything, before expanding their men's collection.
I'll be interested to see how this goes.
I love the idea. As a tall slender person, I'm usually in between sizes and things are never right. For this along with every other personal item, I hope manufacturing on demand gives us all a return to personal customization.
One thing keeps bugging me though. Home page, slide one, white polo. I don't think that shirt fits right. It looks like it's too narrow either across the chest or in the shoulders and that is causing it to pull up on the buttons in the center and creasing the front of the shirt and the bottom of the buttons. Maybe I'm just being a know it all programmer with no fashion sense, but I don't think I want my polos to fit like that.
One thing keeps bugging me though. Home page, slide one, white polo. I don't think that shirt fits right. It looks like it's too narrow either across the chest or in the shoulders and that is causing it to pull up on the buttons in the center and creasing the front of the shirt and the bottom of the buttons. Maybe I'm just being a know it all programmer with no fashion sense, but I don't think I want my polos to fit like that.
Yeah, I hear ya on that photo. If it is any consolation that photo was taken before we started our perfect fit program! And that model was not fitted with our home try-program. Needs to be replaced, agree!
Jon, you guys solved a problem of mine, so I can relate. My trouble with ill-fitting shirts is what led me to prototype swagger: http://brownieinmotion.ca/swagger/api/beta/ an apparel recommendation engine that filtered by fit, size, budget, etc but only for brands in your neighbourhood.
great clean design. will be interested to see where you take it next!
Am I missing something? $70-$90 for a polo shirt with no brand identity, from a website I can't pronounce. Can someone explain the appeal here? I see that the "perfect fit" is tag line, but polos are stretchy so the fit isn't a huge concern for most people.
Many people willing to pay that much for a polo shirt consider lack of conspicuous brand to be a feature.
I don't disagree, but a logo should be a default feature. I remember clearly when Vineyard Vines became the go to brand of southern frat boys overnight, and a $100M/yr business. It would have never happened without the whale logo.
Leaving a logo off the polos basically makes any sort of viral growth impossible. Of course the plan could be to sell shirts exclusively to wealthy people that like the "lands end" look. That doesn't strike me as the best approach.
Leaving a logo off the polos basically makes any sort of viral growth impossible. Of course the plan could be to sell shirts exclusively to wealthy people that like the "lands end" look. That doesn't strike me as the best approach.
But more people pay extra for conspicuous branding, not to mention the marketing benefits. Hence the luxury fashion industry.
This is definitely a personal preference issue. I, for one, hate logos and branding on my clothing. I won't pay for clothing that advertises itself. I have met other people who are the exact opposite and care greatly about the branding and image. In the end, there's probably enough room in the market for clothing companies to go either way. I'm personally thankful for not having branding forced on me.
Try us out! I'll throw you some store credit! Maybe we can change your opinion :) (vas' - trum)
I think the high price subsidizes the free fitting.
This seems much closer to a "lifestyle business" than anything else I've seen come out of YC.
Perhaps, but if you look at the industry closely, most of the largest apparel brands in the world started with basic apparel (t-shirts: Gap ($16B market cap), Uniqlo ($20+B); Yoga wear - Lulu Lemons ($10B market cap), athletic tops: Underarmour ($5B market cap).
I'd love to tackle a problem like this.
One thing I like is the approach compared to someone like an Indochino who gets you to take your measurements and then their tailors take liberties with the measurements you provide (accounting for your lack of skill) leading to unpredictable results.
I'm curious who the target for this is, specifically. I personally know that fit is everything, but I'm not sure if most (male) style conscious consumers will gravitate to such a product, especially at this stages. I struggle to tell if this is targetted at an "every man," or those who just can't find anything that fit (those who are in odd proportions of the spectrum)
One thing I like is the approach compared to someone like an Indochino who gets you to take your measurements and then their tailors take liberties with the measurements you provide (accounting for your lack of skill) leading to unpredictable results.
I'm curious who the target for this is, specifically. I personally know that fit is everything, but I'm not sure if most (male) style conscious consumers will gravitate to such a product, especially at this stages. I struggle to tell if this is targetted at an "every man," or those who just can't find anything that fit (those who are in odd proportions of the spectrum)
Great comment!! Our supply chain partner did a study where they collected over 150,000 body scans. They then analyzed the data for any consistency in sizing. They found that each body scan was like a thumb print! This is the reason why it is difficult for brands and apparel manufacturers to make stuff that fits properly - because we are all unique. And the efficiencies of mass production that creates one size for many unfortunately fail when trying to address this issue. Read: one size does not fit all. And for polo shirts and other basic wear, mass produced garments was the only option. We think that all folks could eventually use this service. Time will tell...
Intriguing. I only purchase dress shirts on Indochino now. By the time I buy a premade shirt then have it tailored, Indochino is cheaper. My main complaint is that I have never had a shirt arrive on time.
Vastrm is intriguing, but prices do not seem to compelling. They seem right inline with custom dress shirts. Plus, with Polos I feel like there is more room for error, e.g. with stretch fabrics that hide imperfect sizes, unbuttoned collars that hide imperfect collar sizes, fairly limp collars that do not show details
Vastrm is intriguing, but prices do not seem to compelling. They seem right inline with custom dress shirts. Plus, with Polos I feel like there is more room for error, e.g. with stretch fabrics that hide imperfect sizes, unbuttoned collars that hide imperfect collar sizes, fairly limp collars that do not show details
Great point! We are working on getting our prices down. But we are still less expensive than off the shelf Lacoste or Ralph Lauren Polo (which range from $95 - $145 retail). And we believe our quality is higher. Plus, we are custom. I like your second point as well. With dress shirts, precision is extremely important to get the right fit, especially in today's style trends towards tighter fitting clothes. That is why so many measurement points are needed when getting custom fitted. With polo's and other casual wear, because of the way the garment naturally drapes, we don't need to collect the 12 or more measurements needed to get an ideal fit. If we can hone in on your general body type and make adjustments to bottom length, sleeve length and body width. We can get darn near close to the perfect fit. Make sense?
Yes. I don't know what your target demographic is, but your fabrics seem to target a younger, less stylistically-aware group that doesn't align with your price points and level of detail.
For instance, half of your fabrics are horizontally-striped, which I would consider both an immature look and stylistically unsound (with vertical stripes considered 'slimming'). I associate Lacoste with consumers who try to compensate for style sense with money - like the 'Rock and Republic' of polos. The Lacoste shirts cost $90 apiece, but even their "!" slim-fit line still are cut like squares. I don't think this is your crowd who cares about fit.
Consumers in the $100-200 polo range are used to higher quality items rather than striped/branded items - e.g. the Ralph Lauren Black line is in that range, and the whole line focuses on Italian cuts and fabrics with no visible branding.
If I were in your position, I would offer less fabrics and of higher quality with marketing to target more of the Tom Ford-wannabes. Something along the lines of "Fit Frames Quality." You could offer almost a luxury fabric menu in basic colors that really tells a story of the piece of cloth, helping people to become more viscerally attached with what they wear. With a current slogan of "Be Unique," I think you are skirting the fact that people willing to go through the rigmarole of customization, test shirts, then the custom manufacturing process are pursuing a display of flawlessness. The advertising fails to capture this desire for perfection - you are selling choice, when I think that you need to highlight the intersection of fit and quality.
Furthermore, monogramming is a must-have feature.
For instance, half of your fabrics are horizontally-striped, which I would consider both an immature look and stylistically unsound (with vertical stripes considered 'slimming'). I associate Lacoste with consumers who try to compensate for style sense with money - like the 'Rock and Republic' of polos. The Lacoste shirts cost $90 apiece, but even their "!" slim-fit line still are cut like squares. I don't think this is your crowd who cares about fit.
Consumers in the $100-200 polo range are used to higher quality items rather than striped/branded items - e.g. the Ralph Lauren Black line is in that range, and the whole line focuses on Italian cuts and fabrics with no visible branding.
If I were in your position, I would offer less fabrics and of higher quality with marketing to target more of the Tom Ford-wannabes. Something along the lines of "Fit Frames Quality." You could offer almost a luxury fabric menu in basic colors that really tells a story of the piece of cloth, helping people to become more viscerally attached with what they wear. With a current slogan of "Be Unique," I think you are skirting the fact that people willing to go through the rigmarole of customization, test shirts, then the custom manufacturing process are pursuing a display of flawlessness. The advertising fails to capture this desire for perfection - you are selling choice, when I think that you need to highlight the intersection of fit and quality.
Furthermore, monogramming is a must-have feature.
Great points! Would love to discuss with you more offline.
We source some of the highest quality cotton available. We use essentially the same quality that you might see on a Cuchinelli, Zegna or Kiton polo - which retail for $250 - $400 at Niemans or boutiques. We sell our polos, private label into some high end boutiques for $175 and $195 (retail)- using the same fabric we offer online. I agree, we need to do a much better job at marketing and branding though. And I really liked your comments about creating a visceral attachment to the garments. Stay tuned for that and please stay in touch with us! Are you in marketing?
We source some of the highest quality cotton available. We use essentially the same quality that you might see on a Cuchinelli, Zegna or Kiton polo - which retail for $250 - $400 at Niemans or boutiques. We sell our polos, private label into some high end boutiques for $175 and $195 (retail)- using the same fabric we offer online. I agree, we need to do a much better job at marketing and branding though. And I really liked your comments about creating a visceral attachment to the garments. Stay tuned for that and please stay in touch with us! Are you in marketing?
Shoot me an email - I am interested in talking more. [email protected]. I'm an engineering and physics student who, among other ventures, owns a marketing automation company and who appreciates clothing.
On a bit of side note, I'm excited to be meeting Daymond John from Fubu and Shark Tank tomorrow!
On a bit of side note, I'm excited to be meeting Daymond John from Fubu and Shark Tank tomorrow!
Ahh... Marketing Automation! I founded a Sales Automation (CRM) company prior to this, Salesnet. We were acquired by RNOW (now ORCL). I also ran a small marketing automation co for a year. Lots to chat about. Good luck with Daymond. We are linked on linkedin but have never met him.
One other note: Advertising for women sometimes focuses on finding that 'perfect black dress' (in ads ranging from the dress itself to deodorant) - I wonder if your company could create the 'perfect black polo' for men.
Black is certainly a popular color.
There's no way to "save" the shirt I just created currently - right? Trying to "Add to my collection" brings up a form that is non-functional. I entered my email on the home page and hoped I might have a login waiting for me, but alas, just a note saying I may get one in the future! I took a screenshot for now, should be good enough.
Are you guys currently hiring a developer to do the HTML5 version of the site? :)
Are you guys currently hiring a developer to do the HTML5 version of the site? :)
Sorry for that @pattern! Obviously to all, our site has been experiencing issues because of the high traffic. We made some Apache config changes and can now support higher traffic levels. If you try logging in again, you can save to MY COLLECTION. Really sorry about that!!! Ping me later and I can throw you some store credit for your frustration!
Perfectly fitting clothes is a pretty hard problem to solve without human intervention (a tailor). Sites like BlankLabel do a decent job at getting you a dress shirt that will fit you alright, but it's not quite there yet. The shipping times are quite long, and the cost is very high unless you go for the rather disappointing fabrics.
Affordable, rapidly produced and perfectly fitting clothes would be a dream.
Affordable, rapidly produced and perfectly fitting clothes would be a dream.
This is precisely what we are striving for. Not an easy task. Our fitting process will require no measuring tape and no human intervention. From size optimization to recommending adjustments for perfect fit, we hope that the whole process is frictionless and hassle free. We will work on pricing and speed to delivery in the meantime!
Could you please explain how it would possibly not require a measuring tape? Site is down right now, so I can't try it
We will ask you a few simple questions to optimize a size selection. From there we will send you 2 - 3 of our unique fit types to try on at home. In most cases, one of those 3 sizes will fit almost perfect. Then we will allow you to adjust +/- inches to sleeve length, bottom hem or width of shirt. More if necessary, but we have found these 3 minor adjustment points make a significant difference in finding just the right fit.
Hope you guys succeed, I'd be a customer!
I just ordered some custom made shirts for my brother's wedding. I'll know how they are next week.
For things like that they're great too - we needed an obscure combination of color and features which surprisingly didn't exist ready-made. (Ivory, French Cuffs, Slim.)
You might find a side-market for groups. e.g. the MSL/Curiosity team's EDL event polos.
For things like that they're great too - we needed an obscure combination of color and features which surprisingly didn't exist ready-made. (Ivory, French Cuffs, Slim.)
You might find a side-market for groups. e.g. the MSL/Curiosity team's EDL event polos.
Thanks jonah! Definitely will look into it! We have sponsored member guest tournaments for golf where each team required a slightly different appearance but wanted an overall theme. We have also custom designed whole collection of shirts for retailers so they could carry a product that one could not get on main st.
This seems like something you could throw a Kinect at. Get a few images at the right angles, build a crude 3D model, and measure that in software instead of wasting resources shipping shirts around. It wouldn't account for preference, but surely it's as accurate as someone guessing at their own adjustments.
Thanks pwf, we have been considering this avenue. Especially to help with the first step of size selection optimization, but through a variety of tests and interviews we conducted, there was something about people actually touching fabric and trying on the garments that could not be replaced with digital images and 3D modeling. But, we will certainly be giving more thought and research into this area!
I remember watching Shark Tank a while ago and one of the pitches was perfect fitting jeans. The idea seems quite similar (but for jeans). The investors didn't really think it was viable due to the turn-around time (if I remember correctly).
Edit: It was actually Dragons Den (Season 2 Ep 6 I think)
Edit: It was actually Dragons Den (Season 2 Ep 6 I think)
I will have to check that episode out. We are certainly working on turn around time. Hopefully we can cut by 30% in the near future. We will also likely sell some mass produced designs which would allow us to ship immediately. But if our customers want adjustments to get perfectly fit, that still takes some time.
This looks like it could be really useful, although the pricing is a lot worse than my current "buy 20x Lands End polos when they go on sale" strategy.
For dress shirts/buttondown or suits/pants, I haven't found any of the online vendors to be as good as W W Chan in HK or Shanghai.
For dress shirts/buttondown or suits/pants, I haven't found any of the online vendors to be as good as W W Chan in HK or Shanghai.
Yes, lands end does offer some pretty affordable gear. If it fits, feels comfortable and lasts, its a good way to go!
Fit revolution - please please please would you consider doing perfect fit shoes next? :)
That could be fun - "We'll send you two molds - please step in each one, then we'll build a shoe around it"
:)
"You can go on Vastrm’s site and take a short quiz, entering height, weight, body type and waste size.."
What does that have to do with anything?
What does that have to do with anything?
It very much influences the fit of your shirt.
very cool! where I envision them to be next is holding up a CD to your webcam, and taking your body measurements in proportion to the disk you're holding up, and customize shirts and suits from there. thanks for sharing!
Can logos be added via dst files?
Yep. We do embroidery. Let me know what you may need. We also can create the DSTs if you do not have them on hand.
Awesome. I'll contact you guys. Also, if I have a light and dark version of the logo, would you guys be able to give input as to which one combines better with which color shirt?
I have the fashion sense of a homeless man..
I have the fashion sense of a homeless man..
Yes, we could recommend some color selections for you. email me at [email protected]
And... their site is being crushed by the traffic.
EDIT: Finally loaded, and the site is a giant SWF file? Seriously?
EDIT: Finally loaded, and the site is a giant SWF file? Seriously?
Perhaps they have more interesting problems to solve than "how do we build our UI in HTML5"?
Getting a shirt that will fit well ranks much higher in most people's priorities than using only HTML-based webapps.
Getting a shirt that will fit well ranks much higher in most people's priorities than using only HTML-based webapps.
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see comment ^above^...
I have an idea, let's make the entire site using Flash, it will be super awesome!
cache:vastrm.com = "get adobe flash player"...
Fail.
cache:vastrm.com = "get adobe flash player"...
Fail.
Yeah... we know... totally our bad. We were focused on scaling supply chain, mfr and coming up with great product. Unfortunately, made the rookie mistake of building in flash. That will change for sure. Sooner the better...
I would put that VERY low on your priority list (with the possible exception of the iPad impact). Don't let techno-elites drive you the wrong direction.
I would put it high on the list. Building this thing in Flash in 2012 is just dumb. We saw how the launch went. As noted, their missing out on the tablet users. Building in HTML5 is not much harder (might even be easier). Flash is dead-end.
Agree flash is a dead end! And we will be migrating. However, we discovered the performance issues today were not caused by our flash app but due to config settings on our Apache servers. Again, apologies for the poor experience...
I'm not sure that people browsing on iPhones, iPads, and most (all?) Android devices in 2012 count as 'techno-elites'. The site should at least degrade gracefully to give an idea of what the company's about on Flashless platforms.
Doing it because they have a significant group of customers who can't access it: The right reason
Doing it because people on HN bitch and moan that the technology: The wrong reason
I'm all for dumping flash for the right reasons (and, personally, I wouldn't have built it using flash). Dumping it for the wrong reasons, though, is an unnecessary distraction that doesn't build business value.
Doing it because people on HN bitch and moan that the technology: The wrong reason
I'm all for dumping flash for the right reasons (and, personally, I wouldn't have built it using flash). Dumping it for the wrong reasons, though, is an unnecessary distraction that doesn't build business value.
I'm 6'5" 220+ lbs. If I can't find a tall size, I have to get a XXL which is made for chubby guys, not tall thin (well not as thin as I used to be :-) ) men.
A good fitting shirt is the hardest thing to find. Pants already come in a variety of sizes (length + waist) so it's not as big of an issue.