AeroFS (YC S10): It’s Like Dropbox, But It Runs Inside Your Firewall(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
AeroFS (YC S10): It’s Like Dropbox, But It Runs Inside Your Firewall
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/13/yc-funded-aerofs-its-like-dropbox-but-it-runs-inside-your-firewall/
25 comments
Co-founder of AeroFS here :-)
1. Symbolic link support is currently planned, I'd go to http://ae.ro/qc9Ey5 and upvote it. It'll allow us to notify you when it's done.
2. Bigger plans are in the works, stay tuned!
3. Headless support has been actually available for a while for most linux distributions, check out the "aerofs-cli" and "aerofs-sh" commands.
1. Symbolic link support is currently planned, I'd go to http://ae.ro/qc9Ey5 and upvote it. It'll allow us to notify you when it's done.
2. Bigger plans are in the works, stay tuned!
3. Headless support has been actually available for a while for most linux distributions, check out the "aerofs-cli" and "aerofs-sh" commands.
If you implement one feature, I will switch immediately: multiple accounts running at the same time.
I want to be able to sync my work stuff completely separate from my personal stuff. No "Shared Folders" solution or jazz like that. Dropbox seems totally unwilling to support this officially, so if you did, that'd be an awesome differentiator.
I want to be able to sync my work stuff completely separate from my personal stuff. No "Shared Folders" solution or jazz like that. Dropbox seems totally unwilling to support this officially, so if you did, that'd be an awesome differentiator.
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but, last time I checked (a while ago) you could share different folders with different computers. For example, you could make a "work" share and sync it only with coworkers, and a "personal" share and sync it with your personal computers.
The problem is if me and Joe use Dropbox for personal use, and then we come up with a great startup idea and want to start hacking on it. On like day 5 of working on this idea, you'll want to start sharing/saving some PDFs or excel sheets or something. Ideally you'd be able to create a new Dropbox for this project and run two clients on your machine, one for your personal Dropbox and one for your new project Dropbox, and Joe can do the same.
But because you can't run two clients at once, you can't do this. You can create "Personal" and "Project" folders in your existing Dropbox and sync to different machines, but Joe now needs to use your Dropbox account and he can't sync his personal account. Or you both use the web client, except you're basically using FreeDrive from 1999. Or you use an entirely different file sharing service like ZumoDrive, which is kind of silly.
I get that multi-client support for Dropbox is probably a niche feature and will probably lead to jerks like me using 5 accounts instead of 1, so they don't do it. And there are workarounds like Dropboxen that allow me to sort of have multiple Dropbox instances running on my machine if I have multiple user accounts. But man it'd be nice if multiple Dropbox instances running was a native feature instead of having the same, "Ok, I filled out the Articles of Organization and put them in my Dropbox so just refer to our filing number from there."; "Why don't you put them in MY Dropbox and YOU just refer it from there?" conversation with Joe.
But because you can't run two clients at once, you can't do this. You can create "Personal" and "Project" folders in your existing Dropbox and sync to different machines, but Joe now needs to use your Dropbox account and he can't sync his personal account. Or you both use the web client, except you're basically using FreeDrive from 1999. Or you use an entirely different file sharing service like ZumoDrive, which is kind of silly.
I get that multi-client support for Dropbox is probably a niche feature and will probably lead to jerks like me using 5 accounts instead of 1, so they don't do it. And there are workarounds like Dropboxen that allow me to sort of have multiple Dropbox instances running on my machine if I have multiple user accounts. But man it'd be nice if multiple Dropbox instances running was a native feature instead of having the same, "Ok, I filled out the Articles of Organization and put them in my Dropbox so just refer to our filing number from there."; "Why don't you put them in MY Dropbox and YOU just refer it from there?" conversation with Joe.
I don't understand, why can't you just create shared folders in your single Dropbox account and share them with whomever you like?
There is an option too in the right-click menu for sharing a folder. They may just have missed it. But the same button on the web based interface is clear enough, I suppose.
The issue is that it's being shared from the same account. I know about Shared Folders and use them extensively.
In a nutshell, here's what I want: - Install Dropbox - configure account #1 : [email protected] - configure account #2 : [email protected]
I don't want anyone at work seeing my personal email because it is, well, personal. No-one at work should need to know about my personal stuff unless it really is personal. Dropbox doesn't seem to understand the value of this.
I want to keep my work life and my personal life separate and many new services don't seem to understand or value this.
In a nutshell, here's what I want: - Install Dropbox - configure account #1 : [email protected] - configure account #2 : [email protected]
I don't want anyone at work seeing my personal email because it is, well, personal. No-one at work should need to know about my personal stuff unless it really is personal. Dropbox doesn't seem to understand the value of this.
I want to keep my work life and my personal life separate and many new services don't seem to understand or value this.
Ah, now I see what you mean... I circumvented this by using my work email to have invitations sent to, but accepting them from my personal account. I'm not sure if the people in the share can see my email address, though.
That's what I want to avoid - I prefer to not have to think about it at all.
This sounds like a pretty useful feature. I suggest going to their feature suggestion/vote page and listing it.
http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-requests
http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-requests
Most NAS have CPUs that don't easily run the JVM. I wish AeroFS could run on my Synology NAS. That would be the killer feature for me.
I personally have the WD MyBook live (http://blog.marc-seeger.de/2011/03/20/the-western-digital-my...), it has an 800 MHz APM82181 (PPC Architecture) with 256 MB RAM, that should run most headless file sync stuff :)
AeroFS is YC S10? Why are they coming out as a YC company only now?
I'm writing a blog post about this now :)
I've been using AeroFS for a while now, and it is great. AeroFS lacks the polish that Dropbox has, but for me AeroFS fills the need of folder synchronization and redundancy much better than Dropbox. Your available storage space is only limited by your disk space on the computers you sync with.
I've been watching AeroFS for a few months now, and it is a fascinating product that almost meets my needs. Just a few things keep me from using it, some of which I can't quite put my finger on enough to turn in to real feature requests on UserVoice.
- It crashes sometimes. I think it does this less frequently now, but its favorite time to crash is when I suspend & resume my laptop.
- Synchronization is a difficult problem to solve, and users need to have confidence that the software Does It Right. Somehow Dropbox achieves this, and I can't put my finger on how; I think part of it is the fact that conflicting files are duplicated and clearly marked. I haven't had conflicting syncs yet with AeroFS, so I'm not sure how it handles them, but I also haven't seen documentation on what happens. It's a combination of an algorithmic problem, which you presumably have solved, and a UI problem to demonstrate to the user that their data is safe and correct.
- It doesn't yet support ignores. There's a feature request for this, and I've upvoted it, so hopefully it's just a matter of time. When I'm syncing a source directory, I don't want the built files synced. Yes, there's version control, but it's really convenient to sync portions of my Eclipse workspace so I can transparently work on the same changes on both my laptop and workstation.
- I don't know how it works. There are two pieces of this that are interesting to me: the network topology and the crypto design. One of AeroFS's selling points is that your data is never shipped to the centralized cloud unless you explicitly use AeroFS cloud storage. However, as a privacy-conscious user, I would like to know exactly where my data is going, when, and how it is protected. Some data seems to be going to AeroFS's servers for coordination; what all data is? File lists, or just peer locations & names of libraries? A diagram what network connections are used and where data is shipped would help users such as myself understand where our data go and what the risk points are. Hopefully this can be documented without jeopardizing your special sauce/value-add. For the crypto side, it would be useful to know exactly what crypto algorithms are in use, where, and in what configurations. Some providers claim Great Crypto, and then they're using Blowfish. You've got some of this - your Features page discusses the use of the 2048-bit RSA keys. But how is the "secure channel" established? How are the RSA keys secured against theft (e.g. the Dropbox steal-the-auth-DB hack)? The crypto documentation could be overlaid on the network infrastructure documentation. In short - why should I believe the security claims? With things like this, I think extensive transparency is the best way to engender trust with your users, particularly when your competition is criticized for transparency-related issues (e.g. the encryption "misunderstanding" with Dropbox).
I think AeroFS has a lot of promise, and I want you guys to succeed. We need some good, secure, strongly-privacy-preserving competition in the cloud file sync space.
- It crashes sometimes. I think it does this less frequently now, but its favorite time to crash is when I suspend & resume my laptop.
- Synchronization is a difficult problem to solve, and users need to have confidence that the software Does It Right. Somehow Dropbox achieves this, and I can't put my finger on how; I think part of it is the fact that conflicting files are duplicated and clearly marked. I haven't had conflicting syncs yet with AeroFS, so I'm not sure how it handles them, but I also haven't seen documentation on what happens. It's a combination of an algorithmic problem, which you presumably have solved, and a UI problem to demonstrate to the user that their data is safe and correct.
- It doesn't yet support ignores. There's a feature request for this, and I've upvoted it, so hopefully it's just a matter of time. When I'm syncing a source directory, I don't want the built files synced. Yes, there's version control, but it's really convenient to sync portions of my Eclipse workspace so I can transparently work on the same changes on both my laptop and workstation.
- I don't know how it works. There are two pieces of this that are interesting to me: the network topology and the crypto design. One of AeroFS's selling points is that your data is never shipped to the centralized cloud unless you explicitly use AeroFS cloud storage. However, as a privacy-conscious user, I would like to know exactly where my data is going, when, and how it is protected. Some data seems to be going to AeroFS's servers for coordination; what all data is? File lists, or just peer locations & names of libraries? A diagram what network connections are used and where data is shipped would help users such as myself understand where our data go and what the risk points are. Hopefully this can be documented without jeopardizing your special sauce/value-add. For the crypto side, it would be useful to know exactly what crypto algorithms are in use, where, and in what configurations. Some providers claim Great Crypto, and then they're using Blowfish. You've got some of this - your Features page discusses the use of the 2048-bit RSA keys. But how is the "secure channel" established? How are the RSA keys secured against theft (e.g. the Dropbox steal-the-auth-DB hack)? The crypto documentation could be overlaid on the network infrastructure documentation. In short - why should I believe the security claims? With things like this, I think extensive transparency is the best way to engender trust with your users, particularly when your competition is criticized for transparency-related issues (e.g. the encryption "misunderstanding" with Dropbox).
I think AeroFS has a lot of promise, and I want you guys to succeed. We need some good, secure, strongly-privacy-preserving competition in the cloud file sync space.
Update: they have some network documentation here: http://ae.ro/m3bHKs
And have responded to a feature request for documentation here, so hopefully we see it soonish: http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-requests/suggest...
And have responded to a feature request for documentation here, so hopefully we see it soonish: http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-requests/suggest...
Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=2877037
One should note that Dropbox also transfer your files without the cloud if you happens to have those devices within the same private network.
Also, as much as I think, having some Java programs running at the background is the best idea. I have already got a Java background service running (Crashplan) and it holds up to 500MB after running a longer time. I have yet to receive an invite (msg me if you've got one!), however a native client/background service/daemon would always be welcomed.
Also, as much as I think, having some Java programs running at the background is the best idea. I have already got a Java background service running (Crashplan) and it holds up to 500MB after running a longer time. I have yet to receive an invite (msg me if you've got one!), however a native client/background service/daemon would always be welcomed.
I signed up for an invite a month or so ago, any idea when you are going to open it up for more people?
Current users can invite new people by sharing a library with them.
My email's in my profile. Feel free to contact me and I'll invite a few folks when I get home tonight (in a few hours).
Edit: To help avoid losing your mail to the spambin, put aerofs in the subject line.
My email's in my profile. Feel free to contact me and I'll invite a few folks when I get home tonight (in a few hours).
Edit: To help avoid losing your mail to the spambin, put aerofs in the subject line.
I just sent an email. I'm looking forward to trying it out!
[deleted]
I assume it runs on your computers behind your firewall and not actually 'inside' the firewall.
Also don't quite understand why TC would compare it to Dropbox. Seems like a solid service on it's on merit.
Also don't quite understand why TC would compare it to Dropbox. Seems like a solid service on it's on merit.
AeroFS isn't merely useful for security reasons (inside firewall), but for moving huge files around a LAN. Dropbox does do some LAN syncing on individual accounts, but being able to share big media files during the capture/edit/publishing process would be a great use case. In a lot of those cases, on location, you have Gig-E or better locally, but a 3G/4G hotspot for publishing a final stream (and general Internet use), so something cloud based isn't viable.
I tried this once a year or so ago, but for whatever reason it wasn't able to get through my corporate firewall, while Dropbox was. I am curious if that has been resolved?
We've done a lot of fixes since then that should hopefully address this issue.
Let's try again and let me know :) Shoot me an email (yuri at aerofs.com) and we can see!
Let's try again and let me know :) Shoot me an email (yuri at aerofs.com) and we can see!
I'm stil having the same issue, on the first run it never finishes the 'checking for dinosaurs' part, after a while a warning appears telling me to check if my computer is connected to the internet.
Hello Yuri -- I e-mailed you. My invite code has expired so I'm not able to try again.
replied :)
This looks pretty cool. I am curious to see how they will compete with Dropbox in time, though.
It does seem like FolderShare all over again - which Microsoft acquired, sat on, and subsequently re-released no less than three times with different a different name and different level of stability. It seems to be the role of the startup to re-implement correctly what large organisations screw up.
It does seem like FolderShare all over again - which Microsoft acquired, sat on, and subsequently re-released no less than three times with different a different name and different level of stability. It seems to be the role of the startup to re-implement correctly what large organisations screw up.
The equivalent open source product: SparkleShare. Except it doesn't do Windows yet (but supposedly will soon)
I'm not sure how AeroFS works as I've not used it, but I've tried and had some problems with SparkleShare on larger files because of its reliance on git.
My only comment: AeroFS is an objectively horrible name if you ever want wider consumer adoption. Even if you want to cater to the techie slice of the market it's still not ideal. Pretty important to get the name right.
It sounds like a great idea, but I'm curious how it will perform along side a traditional file sharing system. I'm not sure users will find the benefit. Windows allows cacheing of shared drives already.
It doesn't need to be on the same network.P2P can work across the web, so it's easy to sync between say a web server and a home pc, or between spouses' laptops.
Does anyone has an invite, pretty pretty please? :)
Or better yet, when can we expect the public beta? I am waiting for this over a year now!
Or better yet, when can we expect the public beta? I am waiting for this over a year now!
I know DropBox has had security fallacies in the past.
Inside Firewall or not Inside Firewall, how is the security designed here?
Inside Firewall or not Inside Firewall, how is the security designed here?
This sounds very interesting. Would it be possible to install the linux client on a cheap VPS to get your own "cloud" storage?
does this work between 2 computers not behind the same firewall. i.e. can i sync with a computer in la while im in ny?
Yup! :)
so how is it getting around the double NAT problem? Are users acting as bridges (like Skype super nodes) or is it going though aerofs's servers?
An aerofs server is used to help establish a "connection", more or less along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STUN
I used it with my friend to share media. But It always kept requesting. Our computers are on all the time.
I believe this happened because on my laptop I started a folder called media. It was shared with my friend and my desktop. After a while I removed the folder tracking from the laptop. The syncing looked like it was working but all I ended up getting were empty folders and requesting or nothing at all.
Bugs maybe?
I believe this happened because on my laptop I started a folder called media. It was shared with my friend and my desktop. After a while I removed the folder tracking from the laptop. The syncing looked like it was working but all I ended up getting were empty folders and requesting or nothing at all.
Bugs maybe?
I wish it allowed you add an external HD to sync with.
I'm always suspicious of great new infrastructure that is free. Exactly how are you going to make money?
Presumably by waiting until i rely on this and have invested time and effort into moving all my data into the system - and then you will impose some pricing model.
I prefer to know upfront how much you are going to charge for what.
Presumably by waiting until i rely on this and have invested time and effort into moving all my data into the system - and then you will impose some pricing model.
I prefer to know upfront how much you are going to charge for what.
I would imagine that if they are offering it for free to consumers now that they will make money by offering special enterprise solutions and/or support packages and/or premium options.
I guess the obvious way is to charge for in-the-cloud storage - using your own servers / disk space is free, to have an extra copy online you pay for the storage.
I thought the obvious/implied monetization scheme was freemium upgrades.
This sounds like a problem only techies have, and already have solutions for, like centralized file servers. I don't sync files, I keep one copy of my files, and access them over the network.
I have a large music/photo collection I sync with AeroFS.
I have multiple machines on my network with ten's of GB of spare disk space, so this provides a good backup policy without needing to consider how I should back up all that data off a central file server.
I have multiple machines on my network with ten's of GB of spare disk space, so this provides a good backup policy without needing to consider how I should back up all that data off a central file server.
That's a good backup policy until your building burns down. Better do some off-site backups too!
I am probably the perfect target customer for this: I love and depend on Dropbox for a lot of things since I'm on the move all the time, but I do not trust them with my sensitive data (and I include in this category all of my business data - invoices, et. al). I already have a cheap, mass-storage server colo'd for offsite backups, so being able to run my own copy on my own hardware is a godsend for me.
What about backups and offline access? Those are the two main drawbacks of 'one copy to rule them all'.
Obligatory xkcd reference: http://xkcd.com/949/
I would say AeroFS is as easy as it gets when it comes to transferring large-size files between computers on the Internet. I use AeroFS to share photos and videos with my parents across the Pacific. Works pretty well.
I would say AeroFS is as easy as it gets when it comes to transferring large-size files between computers on the Internet. I use AeroFS to share photos and videos with my parents across the Pacific. Works pretty well.
Where is the source code?
Ok, no source (jet).
Please vote: http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-requests/suggest...
Please vote: http://vote.aerofs.com/forums/67721-feature-requests/suggest...
WTF? Why is this being down-voted?
Honestly its probably because your original comment was a one line request for the source code to an application that isn't open source, nor whose feature article mentioned anything about open source. I'm just guessing though, I lack the karma to dv.
- It doesn't support symbolic links but requires you to put all the directories inside the special "AeroFS" directory
- There is only an option to add a 1 GB "cloud" storage. While it is not the primary use case, I'd love to be able to buy some more
- Last time I checked there was no way to install aerofs on a headless linux system (e.g. a NAS device with a JVM)