Ask HN: is buying an old site, very dependent on SEO, a good idea?
4 comments
How did you find the site? Did he come to you to solicited the sale? Was it in a market place like flippa?
yeah its from a place similar to flippa - im not worried about whether or not the posting is credible
I ask b/c I want to know about his willingness to sell. If you contacted him out of the blue he may have gave you a high number b/c he does not really want to sell. If it is on a marketplace, you know he wants to sell; you have more negotiating power.
Domain age counts for something, as does the rich mat of links that a long-existing site has.
On the other hand, the price looks high for a site that gets that much traffic. I can pretty consistently create SEO-oriented sites that get that much traffic & revenue in 1-2 yrs with an investment of my time that's more like $10-15k. (Working pretty intensely for a month, and mostly waiting for the link network to mature)
(Of course, I've gotten tired of that and now I'm trying to break into making sites that are 10-100x bigger than that)
Changing a successful site is always risky. There are two risks. (1) is that you might go from something that works to something that doesn't work, and (2) in theory the ideal way to drive up your traffic would be to make small incremental improvements, watch your results, then make more changes. Google's very happy for you to do that if you're using AdWords, but they don't like you doing that in SEO, so there are things built into the system that can (sometimes) zap your ratings if you try to revamp an old site.
Personally I can think of better things to do if I had $100k sitting around, but if you like this site you should think about trying to negotiate the price down. I think a multiple of 8 times earnings is fair, so something like $25k more like it.
Of course, his operating costs are low, so like your average domainer, he can probably sit around a long time to find the guy who'll pay too much.
On the other hand, the price looks high for a site that gets that much traffic. I can pretty consistently create SEO-oriented sites that get that much traffic & revenue in 1-2 yrs with an investment of my time that's more like $10-15k. (Working pretty intensely for a month, and mostly waiting for the link network to mature)
(Of course, I've gotten tired of that and now I'm trying to break into making sites that are 10-100x bigger than that)
Changing a successful site is always risky. There are two risks. (1) is that you might go from something that works to something that doesn't work, and (2) in theory the ideal way to drive up your traffic would be to make small incremental improvements, watch your results, then make more changes. Google's very happy for you to do that if you're using AdWords, but they don't like you doing that in SEO, so there are things built into the system that can (sometimes) zap your ratings if you try to revamp an old site.
Personally I can think of better things to do if I had $100k sitting around, but if you like this site you should think about trying to negotiate the price down. I think a multiple of 8 times earnings is fair, so something like $25k more like it.
Of course, his operating costs are low, so like your average domainer, he can probably sit around a long time to find the guy who'll pay too much.
i know what you mean about making cash in other ways faster than inheriting a 100k site - i did some affiliate marketing and was able to generate that kind of cash pretty quick.
the thing that still makes this site worth looking into is the fact that they were able to even generate 3k without really knowing how to monetize the site. it seems like they just went on with the site, skimping over alot of things.
i think they could have done alot more with adding more social features, more frequent content (since they rank so well on google), sending out newsletters with occasional related cpa offers, etc etc.
most ppl here are probably capable of building a site very quick and testing the market. id say im technically capable also, but this site already has the traffic going for it and could be scaled alot more.
i also noticed, when you hear about any acquisition of a site, its either the big startups (in the multiple millions), or tiny ones that you can find on flippa, etc.
i dont hear alot about people turning around sites in the 6 figure range as often.
nonetheless, 100k does some like a pretty big evaluation for it
the thing that still makes this site worth looking into is the fact that they were able to even generate 3k without really knowing how to monetize the site. it seems like they just went on with the site, skimping over alot of things.
i think they could have done alot more with adding more social features, more frequent content (since they rank so well on google), sending out newsletters with occasional related cpa offers, etc etc.
most ppl here are probably capable of building a site very quick and testing the market. id say im technically capable also, but this site already has the traffic going for it and could be scaled alot more.
i also noticed, when you hear about any acquisition of a site, its either the big startups (in the multiple millions), or tiny ones that you can find on flippa, etc.
i dont hear alot about people turning around sites in the 6 figure range as often.
nonetheless, 100k does some like a pretty big evaluation for it
Bottom line, you could build a network of sites which could bring in 3K / month for way less than $100K.
I've heard that Google will sometimes "reset" link value for domains that change ownership; however, I don't know of any specific examples of this happening. There are plenty of sites that get sold for their SEO value and seem to avoid this problem. SEO traffic can disappear at any moment—especially if you're not a major brand—so I'd be nervous about making an investment that takes 3 years to recoup.
I'm not sure if it's the right move to buy, but if you do I'd keep the site stable for at least a month or two. Then start making changes gradually. You don't want to end up in a situation where you make a dozen changes and your rankings tank. You won't know what caused it.
You absolutely need to maintain your URL structure, or use 301 redirects to maintain your link equity.
The "dinosaur content" is what's bringing in the traffic. Don't ever get rid of it, even if you end up deemphasizing it long term.
My take (from your questions) is that you're not ready to make a purchase like this. You should start working on your own project where mistakes won't cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Once you get a hang of things, then you can start buying sites.
One site that I love is http://selfmademinds.com/
It's the blog of two guys who buy/sell/lease/flip domains and sites. Lots to learn from them.
I'm not sure if it's the right move to buy, but if you do I'd keep the site stable for at least a month or two. Then start making changes gradually. You don't want to end up in a situation where you make a dozen changes and your rankings tank. You won't know what caused it.
You absolutely need to maintain your URL structure, or use 301 redirects to maintain your link equity.
The "dinosaur content" is what's bringing in the traffic. Don't ever get rid of it, even if you end up deemphasizing it long term.
My take (from your questions) is that you're not ready to make a purchase like this. You should start working on your own project where mistakes won't cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Once you get a hang of things, then you can start buying sites.
One site that I love is http://selfmademinds.com/
It's the blog of two guys who buy/sell/lease/flip domains and sites. Lots to learn from them.
id prefer not to mention the domain, since the sale is pending, but here are some more figures:
Price: $100k Domain Age: 8 years
Monthly Stats: Uniques: 100k SEMRush rank: 55k Google SE Traffic: 30k SE Traffic price: $17k Revenue: ~$3k
i know initially, the thought of spending $100k on a site that makes 3k a month isn't the smartest idea, but the potential for the site seems pretty big.
it ranks #1 in google for alot of general keywords, has a community on the site that can be revitalized, a 20k email list, along with the possibility of injecting alot of social media features.
my main concern is, if i purchase the site, and try to revamp it, would this kill the traffic built up over the years? what if i still keep the urls the same?
or would i be able to change them, and do a 301 to maintain rankings?
is it even worth messing with the dinosaur content, or just keep the domain and build a new app with a subdomain beta?
any sort of suggestions would be greatly appreciated, even if its related to scrapping the idea in purchasing the site at all - thanks!