How to make your anger work for you(vox.com)
vox.com
How to make your anger work for you
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/24034907/use-anger-productively-motivation-problem-solving
27 comments
Anger got me into programming; when properly guided it can help you to address a situation that is very frustrating for you without having a full blown melty. My very first “real” code was a script i made in my support days was only because i was tired of having to get some
specific hardware info from systems, which no one could do. fed up with cranky clients and incomplete data, i decide enough is enough and made a script to ensure it always got collected. from there, i just never stopped writing tools to solve annoying tech problems; my experience was that learning to write code to do it automatically and correctly was less frustrating than begging people to run the correct commands, much less all of them.
this strategy carried over to many non tech things and i find i trust my anger to tell me when something is bad, but i also now pay attention and think what i want to do with such situations and what i actually want as an outcome and try to work towards that, or even consider “why am i so upset at it? is it really that bad?”. it just forces a more rational reaction in the service of my anger, and the anger is satisfied even if i find i’m upset over nothing; i still understand my feelings way better
this strategy carried over to many non tech things and i find i trust my anger to tell me when something is bad, but i also now pay attention and think what i want to do with such situations and what i actually want as an outcome and try to work towards that, or even consider “why am i so upset at it? is it really that bad?”. it just forces a more rational reaction in the service of my anger, and the anger is satisfied even if i find i’m upset over nothing; i still understand my feelings way better
I honestly believe there's a whole space of exploration into how balancing / channeling emotions the way you describe. It's the dual of depression somehow.. if you let papercuts lock you down you get into a depressive spiral. Tapping into anger flips this around.. key is to convert it into genuine planning / thinking / acting and not destruction :) And this goes beyond programming.. probably worth knowing for one's life globally.
What I used to call anger that resulted in programming often times turned out to being frustrated an disturbed enough to no longer not do anything about it.
I’ve been thinking about the anger response recently as me and my partner are thinking about becoming parents. Some of our friends with children seem to be liable to anger, and it is quite a stereotype of parents around the world using anger, sometimes unintentionally, to impose control on their children, or to express severe disapproval.
I wonder, how do the HN parents here theorise around that? I really don’t want to be an angry parent, as I’ve learned it can wreak havoc on a child’s feeling of psychological safety, but I know that’s easy to say and less easy to do. In my head, one should only ever rely on anger when there is a genuine threat to the child’s life. Really curious of others’ thoughts.
I wonder, how do the HN parents here theorise around that? I really don’t want to be an angry parent, as I’ve learned it can wreak havoc on a child’s feeling of psychological safety, but I know that’s easy to say and less easy to do. In my head, one should only ever rely on anger when there is a genuine threat to the child’s life. Really curious of others’ thoughts.
Here's a parent of two, 9F, 12M:
As soon as you can interact with them set few, understandable rules and stick with them (bed time, screen time, eating habits, chores). Those will create routines and the frictions will decrease. Don't pass to them the responsibility of the decisions (what to eat, seeing or not seeing grandparents, going here or there) as this makes them feel unsure.
In the good or in the bad, if you promise, deliver.
Let them know there's no such thing as a free lunch, neither at their family home.
Be consistent.
Those suggestions will help you to avoid anger overflows.
And last but not least: if you love them, let them know as they need to be ultra sure about that.
One of the things I’ve struggled with as a parent, having grown up with an angry and remote father, is being able to follow through on consequences/being conflict avoidant (something I generally struggle with) due to an internal guilt and innate discomfort with being “mean”. Over time, this has started to change out of necessity, as my oldest figured this out about me, and began taking advantage of my resistance to anger.
Having two children 7 years apart (with a chance to improve significantly as a parent remaining), I now really understand the wisdom of what you shared here, and try to remind myself of this every day. Love doesn’t always mean pleasant moments. Being firm when called for and establishing rules/consequences makes things easier in the long run, and helps avoid blow up moments.
Having two children 7 years apart (with a chance to improve significantly as a parent remaining), I now really understand the wisdom of what you shared here, and try to remind myself of this every day. Love doesn’t always mean pleasant moments. Being firm when called for and establishing rules/consequences makes things easier in the long run, and helps avoid blow up moments.
Have you ever been in a situation where you slipped out of this routine and had to correct ?
ps: nice tips, thanks
ps: nice tips, thanks
I'm not sure if I understand your question.
In my experience my son and daughter always try to challenge the position of the post. They try to check if they can move it a little bit further. I think that this is good and normal. My policy is to re-establish its original position every time I feel they try to move it in a sneaky way but I'm open to discuss the position of the post if they're straight about it and if they can explain to me why it's sensible to move it.
I can not stress enough how important have been and still are the routines, as takes away from them the anxiety. e.g. when we get back home in the afternoon:
Shoes off, prapare the books for the next day, wash, pajamas, free time, help to prepare the table to eat together, have dinner, clean up the table, free time, 9.45 in bed, sleeping by 10 p.m.
They do not have time to fight each other or complain for something they want and don't have. They know what to do in order to have have free time.
It took time to establish that, but know that's automatic and they're fine with that. I see them happy and serene. And this routine also helps me, gives me time and my attention is not always focused on me.
Do we slip out of the routine? Yes, it can happen, no big drama. Slipping out of the routine now and again does not undo it.
P.s. this routine has been built step by step with time, not everything in one go P.p.s. I hope the meaning of the word 'post' was clear. the post is the limit, the fence.
P.s. this routine has been built step by step with time, not everything in one go P.p.s. I hope the meaning of the word 'post' was clear. the post is the limit, the fence.
I've seen people who now struggle with establishing rules with their kids. It seems that at some point they let things slip a bit too far and now it's chaos. I was wondering if you knew how to restore stability :)
thanks again
thanks again
I'm not morbid with the rules (as said, few and clear) or the pole negotiation. They feel no fatigue to try and move it, but I try to be consistent. Consistency is key as they spot and work on the lack of it very efficiently.
I am convinced that you can educate up to 13 years of age latest. After that, I tend to believe that "games are done" (as we use to say in Italy) and they need to work their way out. I will trust on the seeds I tried to plant in them in their first 12/13 years. After that their individuality needs to - and will - be expressed.
You're all very welcome
Errata: not always focused on them
You try every trick in the book to not let your anger control your actions in the moment - taking deep breaths; counting to 10/20/50; asking for 'time out', etc. Depending on a whole bunch of variables, some of which are completely out of your control, you may or may not be successful.
On those occasions where you're not successful, you come back to your child later and share that you're sorry you behaved the way you did, that you wished you'd handled it differently, and that you commit to trying to do better in the future.
Of course this assumes the child is of an age where this conversation makes some semblance of sense to them. I'd argue that age is younger than most people give kids credit for.
On those occasions where you're not successful, you come back to your child later and share that you're sorry you behaved the way you did, that you wished you'd handled it differently, and that you commit to trying to do better in the future.
Of course this assumes the child is of an age where this conversation makes some semblance of sense to them. I'd argue that age is younger than most people give kids credit for.
To me the key skill is to “act angry” while at the meantime suppressing any actual anger. I think it’s important to demonstrate to children what society expects of them and how people respond to bad behaviour but at the same time I believe one should never “act out one’s anger” as that can lead to a loss of control. I always tell myself they’re “just kids” while at the same time reminding myself I owe it to them to role play the situation. It seems to me a very easy thing to do but I know many people who simply don’t get it at all so I must be lucky I guess.
This is kind of true... It is extremely hard to stay calm in many situations having kids. In my opinion this has nothing to do with the ability to stay calm in general. It's more like long time of being stressed out that gets you there. Understanding that you are permanentely stressed out and taking the right measures (take time for yourself, don't take things to seriously, make everything a little game, children just don't WORK like adults - they are children, etc.) is most important.
Becoming parents is a process. Most of this process is great and it enriches your life, but parts of it may be so hard, that you can't explain it to anyone without kids. The first child was kind of ok-ish in my memory :-) But:
Imagine you have 2 little kids, both are sick, because one of them brought it in. They are not able to express their feelings by telling you what the problem is, they just cry the whole day and night. You and your partner are also getting sick, not as bad as your children, but you don't feel well. You can't ask for help, because there is a probability of infecting these persons. You don't sleep much for days and can't really rest. You are worried all the time, because your kids are really sick and you have to care about them, if it gets worse.
In a situation like this, minor daily tasks will be major efforts and at some point you just break down.
Not everything is as hard as this example, but usually having a toddler is energy-sapping all the time. At the same time it's a totally great experience.
Becoming parents is a process. Most of this process is great and it enriches your life, but parts of it may be so hard, that you can't explain it to anyone without kids. The first child was kind of ok-ish in my memory :-) But:
Imagine you have 2 little kids, both are sick, because one of them brought it in. They are not able to express their feelings by telling you what the problem is, they just cry the whole day and night. You and your partner are also getting sick, not as bad as your children, but you don't feel well. You can't ask for help, because there is a probability of infecting these persons. You don't sleep much for days and can't really rest. You are worried all the time, because your kids are really sick and you have to care about them, if it gets worse.
In a situation like this, minor daily tasks will be major efforts and at some point you just break down.
Not everything is as hard as this example, but usually having a toddler is energy-sapping all the time. At the same time it's a totally great experience.
It's possible that "It takes a village to raise a child" also applies to families.
Absolutely. There is a german book called "Erziehen ohne Schimpfen" (Parenting without scolding), which provided me deep insights into the behaviour of my children and my own behaviour in response to it. It is also a stated fact in this book that in "non-western" countries it is normal that a child is raised by the whole (extended) family (grandparents, uncle / aunt, brother sister, friends, etc.) which is a relieve for parents in general.
It just does not help to punish or shout at your child in any way, in fact it makes things worse. However, in situations like I described above, it also helps to be more forgiving about your own behaviour, as long as you try your best to prevent these "breakdowns" and most important APOLOGIZE instead of just being ashamed. Nobody stays calm all the time.
It just does not help to punish or shout at your child in any way, in fact it makes things worse. However, in situations like I described above, it also helps to be more forgiving about your own behaviour, as long as you try your best to prevent these "breakdowns" and most important APOLOGIZE instead of just being ashamed. Nobody stays calm all the time.
I'm suggesting collective attention/assistance for families may also be necessary to achieve certain outcomes (ie: reducing the number/magnitude of things people complain about all the time).
It's okay, understandable and even healthy to be angry. It is not okay, however, to let your anger to drive your actions in a way that hurts others.
And anger should not be looked in isolation. Passive avoidance, passive aggression, dismissiveness or manipulative mind-bending tricks are lightyears worse than an occasional anger outburst - even if these patterns are not as apparent.
And anger should not be looked in isolation. Passive avoidance, passive aggression, dismissiveness or manipulative mind-bending tricks are lightyears worse than an occasional anger outburst - even if these patterns are not as apparent.
It is important for the children to learn about different feelings, their control, and so on. This is not an excuse to use anger to control kids but I think you shouldn't avoid it at all costs or you will burn out or lose faith in humanity. It's not binary, angry or not angry, because there is a full range of emotions between the two end points. For example, there are few things that make me angry anymore but my older child hitting the younger one to hurt him, e.g., to revenge something trivial such as stealing a toy, which has unfortunately happened once or twice, makes my blood boil and I am happy to make it clear that there is a limit to my (and everyone else's) tolerance. As a sane person you then feel bad about losing your temper. Dealing with difficult emotions and explaining them is part of raising children.
This is something my wife and I discuss regularly. I wouldn't say a lot, but it's an ongoing issue we wrestle with.
Part of it is that I think she and I have opposite problems. She really doesn't express anger with our child very much at all, and I tend to get overly angry at times. Both lead to their own significant problems.
Maybe to your second point, part of the dynamic that results is that there's something that needs to be corrected or diverted early on, mildly, and my wife doesn't do that, doesn't establish boundaries or express any anger, and then something escalates from our child. By the time it gets to that point, I feel the need to correct it, which has already gotten out of control, and then I don't know what to do and probably get more angry than I should.
I really don't believe that complete inexpression of anger is good. As the article points out, people do get angry, and everyone does things that make others angry sometimes. Children need to know that and understand that. And I see the consequences of this with my wife and child: even when I have nothing to do with the situation, and don't get angry and stay out of it completely, I see how frustrated and hurt my wife gets by adopting that approach, and the problems that causes.
I think the trick is — and this is where you're kind of threading the needle — is to communicate anger but in a way that's not hurtful or threatening. You want to model being angry but also constructively responding to that anger, like the article is saying, proportionate anger, and so forth.
Parenting is difficult because every child is different and no one is perfect. So advice you hear might not work at all with a particular child, and it's often easier to say than do consistently 100% of the time. On the other hand, I think children are their own beings, and can learn from your mistakes at times as well. I don't mean that dismissively, more as something to keep in mind when you're feeling hard on yourself as a parent.
Part of it is that I think she and I have opposite problems. She really doesn't express anger with our child very much at all, and I tend to get overly angry at times. Both lead to their own significant problems.
Maybe to your second point, part of the dynamic that results is that there's something that needs to be corrected or diverted early on, mildly, and my wife doesn't do that, doesn't establish boundaries or express any anger, and then something escalates from our child. By the time it gets to that point, I feel the need to correct it, which has already gotten out of control, and then I don't know what to do and probably get more angry than I should.
I really don't believe that complete inexpression of anger is good. As the article points out, people do get angry, and everyone does things that make others angry sometimes. Children need to know that and understand that. And I see the consequences of this with my wife and child: even when I have nothing to do with the situation, and don't get angry and stay out of it completely, I see how frustrated and hurt my wife gets by adopting that approach, and the problems that causes.
I think the trick is — and this is where you're kind of threading the needle — is to communicate anger but in a way that's not hurtful or threatening. You want to model being angry but also constructively responding to that anger, like the article is saying, proportionate anger, and so forth.
Parenting is difficult because every child is different and no one is perfect. So advice you hear might not work at all with a particular child, and it's often easier to say than do consistently 100% of the time. On the other hand, I think children are their own beings, and can learn from your mistakes at times as well. I don't mean that dismissively, more as something to keep in mind when you're feeling hard on yourself as a parent.
The Inuit have come up with an innovative solution for a teaching kids to control anger in playful manner. YMMV.
As to the original post, seems dubious at best. Succumbing to anger is simply punishing yourself for others' mistakes. Anger is a natural and even healthy emotion, but trying to harness it perpetuates it. I do not know about you, but who wants to be angry all the time to stay motivated? Surely there are better ways?
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/6855333...
As to the original post, seems dubious at best. Succumbing to anger is simply punishing yourself for others' mistakes. Anger is a natural and even healthy emotion, but trying to harness it perpetuates it. I do not know about you, but who wants to be angry all the time to stay motivated? Surely there are better ways?
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/6855333...
Somewhat related to your question:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/6855333...
Previous threads with about this article: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/6855333...
Previous threads with about this article: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
When you get angry at your kids, after you deal with the situation, and after you calm down, think through what you were really angry about. Was it about your kids? Or was it about you?
Let's say my kid is throwing a tantrum in a restaurant, and I get angry at them. Am I angry because I want to be the kind of parent whose kids behave? And now all these people in the restaurant think I'm not that kind of parent? And I'm angry because they now think less of me?
That anger is wrong. I'm mad, not because my kid is doing something wrong per se, but because they're ruining my self-image. When I have that kind of anger, the problem is me - not my kid having a tantrum, but me. I'm not angry about my kid making a scene in the restaurant; I'm angry about my kid making a mess of my ego. The real problem is my ego and my selfishness.
So when you're angry with your child, check yourself. See if that kind of thing is why you're angry. To the degree it is, you need to grow - not your child, but you. (Your child may also need to grow, but that's a separate issue.)
And for what it's worth, those of us in the restaurant - at least those of us who have kids - aren't condemning your because your child is causing a scene. We've all been there. You have our sympathy and understanding, not our condemnation.
Let's say my kid is throwing a tantrum in a restaurant, and I get angry at them. Am I angry because I want to be the kind of parent whose kids behave? And now all these people in the restaurant think I'm not that kind of parent? And I'm angry because they now think less of me?
That anger is wrong. I'm mad, not because my kid is doing something wrong per se, but because they're ruining my self-image. When I have that kind of anger, the problem is me - not my kid having a tantrum, but me. I'm not angry about my kid making a scene in the restaurant; I'm angry about my kid making a mess of my ego. The real problem is my ego and my selfishness.
So when you're angry with your child, check yourself. See if that kind of thing is why you're angry. To the degree it is, you need to grow - not your child, but you. (Your child may also need to grow, but that's a separate issue.)
And for what it's worth, those of us in the restaurant - at least those of us who have kids - aren't condemning your because your child is causing a scene. We've all been there. You have our sympathy and understanding, not our condemnation.
When they're really young, there shouldn't be any anger towards them at all. They don't know whT they're doing and can't really communicate. As they get older, they can communicate and understand better. Mistakes still do happen. The only thing that should really make one angry is when they start to be defiant or should know better after repeatedly setting the expectation of behavior.
The big thing is aligning your own expectations with what small children can or can't do. It's hard to get mad if you have already prepared in your mind format the reality is likely to be like (a miserable mess).
Although I wonder if expecting this misery and culturing apathy towards large parts of life to avoid anger had negatively affected my job. After all, dealing with the bureaucracy is a lot like dealing with an irrational toddler. My performance has greatly suffered since becoming a parent, so much that I'm concerned about my future ability to support the family.
The big thing is aligning your own expectations with what small children can or can't do. It's hard to get mad if you have already prepared in your mind format the reality is likely to be like (a miserable mess).
Although I wonder if expecting this misery and culturing apathy towards large parts of life to avoid anger had negatively affected my job. After all, dealing with the bureaucracy is a lot like dealing with an irrational toddler. My performance has greatly suffered since becoming a parent, so much that I'm concerned about my future ability to support the family.
I’m a parent and my house is a no anger, no punishment house.
If a child isn’t behaving the way I expect, I start with the assumption that the full picture has not been explained to them of why they’re behavior doesn’t fit with what I/others expect.
Kids don’t start knowing everything, they need it explained.
Many parents show their kids a behavior is not ok by getting angry.
If a child isn’t behaving the way I expect, I start with the assumption that the full picture has not been explained to them of why they’re behavior doesn’t fit with what I/others expect.
Kids don’t start knowing everything, they need it explained.
Many parents show their kids a behavior is not ok by getting angry.
I respect responding to misbehaving constructively, but also letting your kids know that it's okay to feel a wide range of emotions is really important for healthy emotional outcomes. Anger is a bad parenting tactic, but also, anger is not an unhealthy emotion in and of itself. Suppressing anger is, at least according to some schools of psychology, a source of depression.
It's okay to be angry as a parent. But child needs you to be a calm and supportive parent. So I think it's important to learn how to manage your anger and be a positive role model for your child.
Your kids are going to model your behaviour so be the person you want them to be and just make sure they feel loved and accepted.
sleep deprivation is a helluva drug
But seriously, it's important to be able to have, and use, an authoritative voice without becoming angry. I didn't realize how loud I can be (without screaming or yelling) before having children.
They can't read your mind and I think most people get angry with others when there is some fundamental miscommunication or missed expectation.
But seriously, it's important to be able to have, and use, an authoritative voice without becoming angry. I didn't realize how loud I can be (without screaming or yelling) before having children.
They can't read your mind and I think most people get angry with others when there is some fundamental miscommunication or missed expectation.
Anger doesn’t work in parenting. It may seem to work, but it won’t long term. It’s almost impossible to be an explosive or angry parent and not have it lead to negative behaviour in your children. Some are going to live a life of fear, some might even develop what’s close to PTSD or anxiety. Others will get anti-social or self-destructive tendencies in their reactions and so on. The worst part about it is that you absolutely don’t need to get angry or raise your voice to assert yourself as the parent figure in “I’m the adult I decide” situations, you just need patience and assertiveness.
Often it’ll not even be your kids you’re angry at, it’ll be you reacting to stressful situations. If you’re prone to anger under stress, it’ll probably be a good idea for you to simply do things much earlier than you’d otherwise like. I know my wife is bad at handling situations where we have to leave the house for longer trips, so I typically pack everything possible beforehand, sometimes the night before. I’ve also “taught” her to do things like making the children’s lunches the night before instead of during the morning when she has to get the kids out the door in a timely manner.
Another thing we’ve done is to create graphical depictions of the tasks our children have to do each morning. We did this with our children and had them mostly tell us which steps they needed to perform and only helping them with the order and if they forgot something. This way my wife can point to the drawing and sequence of tasks that are their “responsibility”. Which has helped immensely.
Part of being assertive is also sticking to what you say. When I say something it gets done that way. At least 95% of the time. If I can feel a change is extremely important to one of my children, we’ll change it, but usually how I outline things is how they are going to happen. I don’t do this with anger, but with patience, but the magical thing about it is that my kids know and usually don’t fight it because they know it’s useless to fight it.
It is also better to “trick” your kids than to yell at them or enforce strict anger responses. Instead of fighting young children about getting dressed or whatever, you can tell them that you’re going to get your shoes on first. Similar when you’re eating, and they refuse to eat anything, you can tell them that they can’t have any because it’s “adult” food only, or say something like “I really hope noobe eats this delicious food on my fork” and look away and then pretend to be surprised and blame everyone including the pet for taking it.
You’re also going to have to accept that things take time, that they are hard and that your children will go through different phases. It’s often helpful to remember that most of the time they aren’t being “disobedient” on purpose, sometimes they may not even know why they are fighting you or whatever it is that they are fighting. You need to remember that they are learning emotions and that it’s ok for them to feel whatever they feel. You also need to remember that your patience is infinite while theirs isn’t.
My biggest issue is usually not to laugh at their “stupidity”. Like when my daughter gets really, really, angry and trash some of her toys. Like… how is that supposed to hurt me? I do try to disarm the situation by telling her that if her toys break she will be sorry later and that usually helps. If she’s violent toward us I stop it, not in an angry manner by very assertive.
Finally you have to remember that while your children are riled up it’s very hard to talk to them. It’s always better to distract them and then talk about it later when they calm down.
Oh and don’t worry about what other people are thinking about you carrying a screaming child through a store after you refuse to buy them a toy or candy or whatever. Any parent won’t be judging you, they’ll be emphatic with you because we’ve all been there. If you stick your ground and follow through on your denial it’ll eventually stop. If you cave, you’re in for a life of hell.
Often it’ll not even be your kids you’re angry at, it’ll be you reacting to stressful situations. If you’re prone to anger under stress, it’ll probably be a good idea for you to simply do things much earlier than you’d otherwise like. I know my wife is bad at handling situations where we have to leave the house for longer trips, so I typically pack everything possible beforehand, sometimes the night before. I’ve also “taught” her to do things like making the children’s lunches the night before instead of during the morning when she has to get the kids out the door in a timely manner.
Another thing we’ve done is to create graphical depictions of the tasks our children have to do each morning. We did this with our children and had them mostly tell us which steps they needed to perform and only helping them with the order and if they forgot something. This way my wife can point to the drawing and sequence of tasks that are their “responsibility”. Which has helped immensely.
Part of being assertive is also sticking to what you say. When I say something it gets done that way. At least 95% of the time. If I can feel a change is extremely important to one of my children, we’ll change it, but usually how I outline things is how they are going to happen. I don’t do this with anger, but with patience, but the magical thing about it is that my kids know and usually don’t fight it because they know it’s useless to fight it.
It is also better to “trick” your kids than to yell at them or enforce strict anger responses. Instead of fighting young children about getting dressed or whatever, you can tell them that you’re going to get your shoes on first. Similar when you’re eating, and they refuse to eat anything, you can tell them that they can’t have any because it’s “adult” food only, or say something like “I really hope noobe eats this delicious food on my fork” and look away and then pretend to be surprised and blame everyone including the pet for taking it.
You’re also going to have to accept that things take time, that they are hard and that your children will go through different phases. It’s often helpful to remember that most of the time they aren’t being “disobedient” on purpose, sometimes they may not even know why they are fighting you or whatever it is that they are fighting. You need to remember that they are learning emotions and that it’s ok for them to feel whatever they feel. You also need to remember that your patience is infinite while theirs isn’t.
My biggest issue is usually not to laugh at their “stupidity”. Like when my daughter gets really, really, angry and trash some of her toys. Like… how is that supposed to hurt me? I do try to disarm the situation by telling her that if her toys break she will be sorry later and that usually helps. If she’s violent toward us I stop it, not in an angry manner by very assertive.
Finally you have to remember that while your children are riled up it’s very hard to talk to them. It’s always better to distract them and then talk about it later when they calm down.
Oh and don’t worry about what other people are thinking about you carrying a screaming child through a store after you refuse to buy them a toy or candy or whatever. Any parent won’t be judging you, they’ll be emphatic with you because we’ve all been there. If you stick your ground and follow through on your denial it’ll eventually stop. If you cave, you’re in for a life of hell.
The majority of a small child's activities are a genuine threat to the child's life.
I'm naturally prone to anger, so were my parents, in my experience with my parents, and my kids, the line is how you react once angry.
I'm naturally prone to anger, so were my parents, in my experience with my parents, and my kids, the line is how you react once angry.
You don't control your emotions, your emotions control you. We don't choose to be angry -- we simply are angry.
Anger is your primitive brain stem prodding you into doing something, anything... because what you are dealing with at the moment just isn't working.
Being angry is never the problem -- it's your body's way of telling you it's time to change something. Usually way past time to change things. That's a good thing.
Now... What you do about being angry -- well that's the rub isn't it? Punching someone may not be the best option, maybe channel the anger into something else, something more constructive. In any case, a change must be made.
Listen to your emotions -- they're telling you what you need to be focusing on.
Anger is your primitive brain stem prodding you into doing something, anything... because what you are dealing with at the moment just isn't working.
Being angry is never the problem -- it's your body's way of telling you it's time to change something. Usually way past time to change things. That's a good thing.
Now... What you do about being angry -- well that's the rub isn't it? Punching someone may not be the best option, maybe channel the anger into something else, something more constructive. In any case, a change must be made.
Listen to your emotions -- they're telling you what you need to be focusing on.
I once had a mental health professional tell me:
In the majority of cases anger is not a primal emotion, but a derived one. It is a byproduct of a narrative you have in your mind (i.e. the narrative comes first, then the anger). As such, in most cases, you are in control of your anger.
jamiek88 says pretty much the same thing below.
In the majority of cases anger is not a primal emotion, but a derived one. It is a byproduct of a narrative you have in your mind (i.e. the narrative comes first, then the anger). As such, in most cases, you are in control of your anger.
jamiek88 says pretty much the same thing below.
Your point has it's merits, but I still say that the anger isn't the problem -- the root of the anger as you point out is some false narrative (maybe even true, past abuse, PTSD etc). The anger is drawing attention to a problem -- if the problem is your internal world, then go fix that (reflection, therapy etc).
If you properly address anger, it goes away. If you don't, it stays or comes back. So what you do in response to anger gives you control over whether the anger returns.
Maybe put another way: You are in control of what you do when angry, and those choices impact whether or not the problem is actually resolved. You are in control over whether the problem gets resolved or not -- you are in control of whether or not the anger returns.
If you properly address anger, it goes away. If you don't, it stays or comes back. So what you do in response to anger gives you control over whether the anger returns.
Maybe put another way: You are in control of what you do when angry, and those choices impact whether or not the problem is actually resolved. You are in control over whether the problem gets resolved or not -- you are in control of whether or not the anger returns.
Your conversation is interesting to read, factually helpful and a good example of civilized discussion that helps to explore the topic you are discussing from different sides.
I side with your point if pressed to put your perspectives on different ends of a scale. But that's not even needed, as you correctly point out.
I side with your point if pressed to put your perspectives on different ends of a scale. But that's not even needed, as you correctly point out.
There was a book (I think The Intelligence of Emotions, or something along those lines) that says that we get angry when a boundary (be it a physical, emotional, ideological boundary) has been violated. Sometimes these boundaries have been set unintentionally in an irrational way (such as a childhood trauma, or as a defense mechanism to rejection or something else "bad" that might happen). It's good to investigate your triggers and consider if they are actually rational. Sometimes it can be. It can be very hard to look at and adjust. Nigh impossible in the moment.
Listening to your emotions is easier said than done, especially when you’re in the moment, which is essentially when you need to listen the most. There are many ways and methods to analyze emotions afterward, but in my own experience, those aren’t really effective. At the same time, it’s extremely difficult to train in listening to emotions without real emotions occurring.
journaling and video games helped me personally
journaling and video games helped me personally
I don't see the utility in thinking in absolutes. It's absolutely possible to consciously direct one's emotions.
> Being angry is never the problem
Misplaced anger is common.
Misplaced anger is common.
What's wrong with misplaced anger, other than it's misplaced?
My point still holds, something is wrong, some boundary is violated, you need to do something.
Even if the anger is misplaced, you're not simply angry about "nothing" -- find out what the root is and fix it. The anger isn't the problem. Anger will give you the energy to do the work.
And, as I said, what you do in response may or may not be constructive/helpful. Yes I understand misplaced anger can cause you to focus on the symptoms rather than the problem. In other news, throwing fists usually doesn't help. There are a bunch of things you can do when angry that aren't helpful.
But the anger isn't the problem, it's the symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed.
My point still holds, something is wrong, some boundary is violated, you need to do something.
Even if the anger is misplaced, you're not simply angry about "nothing" -- find out what the root is and fix it. The anger isn't the problem. Anger will give you the energy to do the work.
And, as I said, what you do in response may or may not be constructive/helpful. Yes I understand misplaced anger can cause you to focus on the symptoms rather than the problem. In other news, throwing fists usually doesn't help. There are a bunch of things you can do when angry that aren't helpful.
But the anger isn't the problem, it's the symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed.
Anger is a secondary emotion. You need to figure out what you are actually angry about. That was advice that helped me a lot.
Note the HTML title
" How to deal with anger in a healthy way "
differs from the article's working title
" How to make your anger work for you "
which differs from the URL title
" use-anger-productively-motivation-problem-solving "
" How to deal with anger in a healthy way "
differs from the article's working title
" How to make your anger work for you "
which differs from the URL title
" use-anger-productively-motivation-problem-solving "
Gotta cover all the bases for SEO.
How does that make you feel?
Anger gives you drive. Cold fury is the most powerful. If well placed it allows to keep the drive past the adrenaline.
The if part is the critical one.
Negative emotions are often poisonous and after a while a person realizes it is kind of a bad fuel. I realised that toning them down allows better directing.
To finish: anger is an effective driver.
This is the literal same term I use while weight lifting. I channel all pain and rage into the lift. It sounds crazy, but it works since a lot of athletic activity is about training your mind in the first place.
My workout buddy says he can see it on my face when I’m in the cold fury.
My workout buddy says he can see it on my face when I’m in the cold fury.
Same here. Weightlifting for me is sometimes more of a mental workout than a physical workout. Getting oneself into the headspace to "go for broke" on that final set is crazy taxing and requires a ton of focus, especially for full body lifts like squat and deadlift.
I find lifting moderates my mood more than anything, it's hard to be angry when you've thrown all that emotional energy into a set.
I find lifting moderates my mood more than anything, it's hard to be angry when you've thrown all that emotional energy into a set.
> People are the root cause of anger.
For some values of "root"?
I've seen people angry at animals, and anger at even inanimate objects is common enough to be a film trope (eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_SDwUM4kM ).
(the sentence is ambiguous, but taking the other branch, it's easy enough to find vertebrates angry at each other; as for invertebrates, although we say wasps get angry, it's not so clear)
For some values of "root"?
I've seen people angry at animals, and anger at even inanimate objects is common enough to be a film trope (eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_SDwUM4kM ).
(the sentence is ambiguous, but taking the other branch, it's easy enough to find vertebrates angry at each other; as for invertebrates, although we say wasps get angry, it's not so clear)
[deleted]
Yeah but the root of being angry about an inanimate object is likely not the object itself; likewise for animals. If someone finds themself shouting at the door that just closed in their face, they probably have something deeper going on.
Wasps get aggressive but personally I think calling it anger is anthropomorphising a bit :-)
Wasps get aggressive but personally I think calling it anger is anthropomorphising a bit :-)
And this is why I assume living in nature first environments is so good for your sanity.. chances of this kind of emotional pain is drastically lower.
It worked for me in the past but I don't think it's sustainable. Just like you can't be gung ho all the time, you can't be angry all the time. And when it drops you lose your focus. I picked and dropped 100 things in my life.
The only way for 100% is to "embrace the suck". Keep going on bad days, too. Even if it's only a little.
The only way for 100% is to "embrace the suck". Keep going on bad days, too. Even if it's only a little.
I got into an argument about fitness that pissed me off and I signed-up for gym. Then I actually started enjoying lifting weights and didn't need the anger anymore. Sometimes anger provides the escape velocity to beat the Jovian gravity of lethargy and procrastination.
> Even if it's only a little.
This is key, I think. Do a little of a project most days, just even a few minutes. I find this useful to keep the momentum going on creative projects, including programming and 3D rendering. There are quite often little things that need doing, which keep you in touch with the project, but which can be completed quickly if you aren't in the mood for sustained effort.
This is key, I think. Do a little of a project most days, just even a few minutes. I find this useful to keep the momentum going on creative projects, including programming and 3D rendering. There are quite often little things that need doing, which keep you in touch with the project, but which can be completed quickly if you aren't in the mood for sustained effort.
I don't see anyone else here mentioning it, so I'll do it - there's at least one philosophy, Stoicism, in which anger is a vice, basically a bad thing, to get rid of.
By "get rid of" I don't mean suppress or somehow hide it, but change your worldview (internal narrative) in a way that makes it disappear.
How to do that? Given that anger is the emotional expression of an opinion (narrative), that some rule that's important to you has been violated (an injustice happened), you change that narrative to weaken the assumption that the injustice mustn't/can't happen.
An important thing is that it doesn't mean that you don't react to the injustice, quite the opposite--there's a whole part of Stoicism for that called "discipline of action". It's just that you act on it out of principles and not driven by emotions.
Here an overview of Seneca's "On anger": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Ira
By "get rid of" I don't mean suppress or somehow hide it, but change your worldview (internal narrative) in a way that makes it disappear.
How to do that? Given that anger is the emotional expression of an opinion (narrative), that some rule that's important to you has been violated (an injustice happened), you change that narrative to weaken the assumption that the injustice mustn't/can't happen.
An important thing is that it doesn't mean that you don't react to the injustice, quite the opposite--there's a whole part of Stoicism for that called "discipline of action". It's just that you act on it out of principles and not driven by emotions.
Here an overview of Seneca's "On anger": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Ira
> Don’t wait so long your anger fizzles to complacency or you suppress your emotions into obliteration. “You lose the benefits of anger,” Parrott says.
What I will say is that, for me, the most effective decision for my life has been to just move away from sources of anger. To not do anything out of anger, even positive actions, even in cold blood. Call it complacency, but I think if you only do something because you're angry about it, it's not something you should be doing in the first place. Find a better reason, one that makes sense without emotion being the driver.
It took me well into my thirties to realize the most common metaphor for suppressing anger was wrong. People say you're bottling up your anger if you don't express it, or at least use it. The idea is that it'll explode eventually if you don't vent it. But a better metaphor would be a fire, which you want to keep contained and starved of oxygen, and if you don't contain it it'll just grow and grow and take on its own life.
What I will say is that, for me, the most effective decision for my life has been to just move away from sources of anger. To not do anything out of anger, even positive actions, even in cold blood. Call it complacency, but I think if you only do something because you're angry about it, it's not something you should be doing in the first place. Find a better reason, one that makes sense without emotion being the driver.
It took me well into my thirties to realize the most common metaphor for suppressing anger was wrong. People say you're bottling up your anger if you don't express it, or at least use it. The idea is that it'll explode eventually if you don't vent it. But a better metaphor would be a fire, which you want to keep contained and starved of oxygen, and if you don't contain it it'll just grow and grow and take on its own life.
Anger is a strong emotional response to a perceived threat or injustice. When I was in school, I experienced a lot of injustice, which made me quite an angry child. However, my parents noticed this and began teaching me how to cope with my anger. As a result, I became quite adept at meditation at a young age.
If you are someone with an anger problem, here’s how to address it:
When you feel yourself getting angry, just ask yourself “does this issue REALLY matter”.
If it really matters then by god get angry. If it doesn’t matter then why bother?
I rarely if ever got angry again after I started asking myself this, cause not much actually matters.
When you feel yourself getting angry, just ask yourself “does this issue REALLY matter”.
If it really matters then by god get angry. If it doesn’t matter then why bother?
I rarely if ever got angry again after I started asking myself this, cause not much actually matters.
That works, another method to add to the toolset is to ask what is actually driving the emotion.
Sometimes it's actually frustration that things aren't going the way you want (and the next question is why is my way really better than the other?).
Sometimes it's someone else's mistake (and the next question is have I ever made a mistake?)
Then someone cuts in front of you in line and it could really matter (time pressure or opportunities missed) and that behaviour could be something you would never do to others. In that situation believe it's healthier to speak up, but there is much less risk of escalation, and a good chance of gaining allies around you if the message is delivered calmly rather than with anger.
Sometimes it's actually frustration that things aren't going the way you want (and the next question is why is my way really better than the other?).
Sometimes it's someone else's mistake (and the next question is have I ever made a mistake?)
Then someone cuts in front of you in line and it could really matter (time pressure or opportunities missed) and that behaviour could be something you would never do to others. In that situation believe it's healthier to speak up, but there is much less risk of escalation, and a good chance of gaining allies around you if the message is delivered calmly rather than with anger.
Sometime also it's hard to Acknowledge and Validatethe Feeling
One amusing way I've found to diffuse a little bit of the useless anger, a la
> yelling profanities at the guy who cut us off in traffic
A friend of mine says he just pulls an index finger and mutters under his breath "red turtle," but even then he felt a little bad for envisioning knocking the car off the road, so I invented the purple turtle.
The purple turtle does not blow the offender up. It does not knock the car off the road. It merely teleports car and driver safely to a drive-in movie theater playing the relevant section of driver's education, and they have to sit there in timeout until they understand why what they just did was dangerous and/or stupid. It even has a sound effect.
So now I just make the sound effect, as loudly as I can when I'm by myself, because it's a silly noise and hard to make loudly without laughing, and it helps relieve the tension!
A friend of mine says he just pulls an index finger and mutters under his breath "red turtle," but even then he felt a little bad for envisioning knocking the car off the road, so I invented the purple turtle.
The purple turtle does not blow the offender up. It does not knock the car off the road. It merely teleports car and driver safely to a drive-in movie theater playing the relevant section of driver's education, and they have to sit there in timeout until they understand why what they just did was dangerous and/or stupid. It even has a sound effect.
So now I just make the sound effect, as loudly as I can when I'm by myself, because it's a silly noise and hard to make loudly without laughing, and it helps relieve the tension!
If you’re referring to the shells in Mario Kart, then you should also try the lightning bolt :-) When it hits someone’s kart, they shrink down and slow down, and their engine noise becomes high pitched.
Making someone slow down in front of me is the very last thing I want to do in traffic!
Anger got me into self-hosting. It is such a driving force for me. The trade-off would be reliance on predatory cloud services such as Amazon or Google, which is (for me) always worse than the many hours spend maintaining open source software.
Anger has caused me to start weeklong (including weekends) coding binges where I get a month’s work done. Leaves me a bit exhausted at the end, but still a huge net win.
I'm halfway through the article and one of the suggestions seems to be to understand why we're feeling angry at the moment.
This got me thinking: philosophy and psychology are in part ways to understand ourselves and the world around us. Are there any ways in which more and better _understanding_ does not necessarily lead to a better, more fulfilling life? How important do you think understanding ourselves and the world around us is, for that matter?
This got me thinking: philosophy and psychology are in part ways to understand ourselves and the world around us. Are there any ways in which more and better _understanding_ does not necessarily lead to a better, more fulfilling life? How important do you think understanding ourselves and the world around us is, for that matter?
I think transcendental phenomenology combined with modal logic is what gets into this, a Q&A session with ChatGPT could probably answer a lot of your questions.
For a random bit I feel hackernews crowd will appreciate, I clench my jaw when I get angry. I have given myself TMD (jaw pain closing/chewing and will click/pop in fits).
Not recommended. Root causing the source of stress and amending lifestyle (if possible) to limit those exogenous sources is my old man advice. I don't think focusing my inner rage Hulk is healthy for me.
Not recommended. Root causing the source of stress and amending lifestyle (if possible) to limit those exogenous sources is my old man advice. I don't think focusing my inner rage Hulk is healthy for me.
Did vox used to be better? I think anger is like flatulence. You can talk a lot about it but at the end of the day it’s just a bunch of hot air. “Make your flatulence work for you.” Odd.
Just me? I thought the article was terrible. Most of the solutions discussed involve not being angry but being motivated. Did i miss something?
I thought it was terrible too. The author didn't state their assumptions and didn't address the social norms surrounding anger.
Anger is, at least where I live, not a socially acceptable emotion to express. This belief is the core of the article, and I imagine that a lot of folks reading this are thinking, "That's right it's not," "There's always a reason not to be angry," &c. However, anger is also a completely valid emotion - we've all experienced anger.
My point is that we have no socially acceptable outlets for anger. We have to mask, sublimate, redirect, suppress, or simply not be angry for basically our entire lives. This article is a product of that belief.
I run a sporadic event with a group of friends called "Scream at the Moon Night". On a full moon we go out to an open field and I run through a list of prompts that all ask for a screaming response. We scream out all that pent up anger and once we're done we take a seat and just talk. It's cathartic. I've had moms take their kids and scream about bullies. People have screamed about work, ex's, life struggles, everything.
It's great, but the take away is that this is so outside the social norms that I wouldn't blame you if you thought it was weird.
There isn't space to do this socially, I had to make it.
Anger is, at least where I live, not a socially acceptable emotion to express. This belief is the core of the article, and I imagine that a lot of folks reading this are thinking, "That's right it's not," "There's always a reason not to be angry," &c. However, anger is also a completely valid emotion - we've all experienced anger.
My point is that we have no socially acceptable outlets for anger. We have to mask, sublimate, redirect, suppress, or simply not be angry for basically our entire lives. This article is a product of that belief.
I run a sporadic event with a group of friends called "Scream at the Moon Night". On a full moon we go out to an open field and I run through a list of prompts that all ask for a screaming response. We scream out all that pent up anger and once we're done we take a seat and just talk. It's cathartic. I've had moms take their kids and scream about bullies. People have screamed about work, ex's, life struggles, everything.
It's great, but the take away is that this is so outside the social norms that I wouldn't blame you if you thought it was weird.
There isn't space to do this socially, I had to make it.
If anger is expressed in a healthy and constructive way, it can be a powerful force for good. However, if anger is expressed in an unhealthy and destructive way, it can have serious consequences. Anger can motivate us to take action and make changes but uncontrolled anger can lead to violence and aggression
>Anger is selfish (road rage) and selfless (protesting a war half a world away).
Thought that was a pretty weak example of selfless… couldn’t be something happening in front of you?
Thought that was a pretty weak example of selfless… couldn’t be something happening in front of you?
Yeah the solutions were like, "when you're angry, don't be"
But maybe people with anger issues don’t want to read an article entitled “anger has minimal functional value in the modern world.”
Although, I’ve found that anger can be an effective way of dealing with certain angry people (not most!). Some people get calm when others are angry but don’t notice it in themselves. It’s frustrating though, because I hate getting angry. I very rarely get angry at my kids and I usually signal (“I don’t want to get angry… I’m starting to get angry”). So even when anger is functional for me, I really don’t like how it cognitively disrupts me.
Although, I’ve found that anger can be an effective way of dealing with certain angry people (not most!). Some people get calm when others are angry but don’t notice it in themselves. It’s frustrating though, because I hate getting angry. I very rarely get angry at my kids and I usually signal (“I don’t want to get angry… I’m starting to get angry”). So even when anger is functional for me, I really don’t like how it cognitively disrupts me.
> "Be strategic with your reactions to anger."
i think as u get older u learn the value of silence.
delaying your response (if ever) to a more strategic time.
i think as u get older u learn the value of silence.
delaying your response (if ever) to a more strategic time.
I guess venting in an echo-chamber isn't very effective, but why do smart people keep doing it?
>>> Go ahead, get mad. It’s healthy.
Absolute garbage.
My mother brought me up this way and it’s one of the most damaging things she could have done.
DONT get mad. Regulate your emotions. Be a kind person. Communicate with people.
Anger destroys relationships fast. If you want to dispose of your relationships like they’re worth nothing then sure, get angry.
Angry people aren’t aware of it, but they are behaving like dickheads.
Anger is a mechanism for controlling other people through emotional verbal violence implying the threat of physical violence.
If someone gets angry with you, laugh at them and tell them you are immune to their attempt to control you with anger.
Absolute garbage.
My mother brought me up this way and it’s one of the most damaging things she could have done.
DONT get mad. Regulate your emotions. Be a kind person. Communicate with people.
Anger destroys relationships fast. If you want to dispose of your relationships like they’re worth nothing then sure, get angry.
Angry people aren’t aware of it, but they are behaving like dickheads.
Anger is a mechanism for controlling other people through emotional verbal violence implying the threat of physical violence.
If someone gets angry with you, laugh at them and tell them you are immune to their attempt to control you with anger.
"If someone gets angry with you, laugh at them and tell them you are immune to their attempt to control you with anger."
Yep, this was how it was at my home. My mom would get angry at everything, and then I was the one who had to regulate her emotions. And if I failed, she'd be even more mad.
Yep, this was how it was at my home. My mom would get angry at everything, and then I was the one who had to regulate her emotions. And if I failed, she'd be even more mad.
I think you misunderstand the article.
Getting angry can be healthy, because it shows you care about something that is going wrong, in your opinion. It's the way you channel the anger that can be productive or destructive.
I think a lot of problems spiral out of control because people _don't_ get angry when they actually should. And being kind has little to do with not being angry. The most unkind people I've met don't get angry; they just let things slide, because they don't care about you, or about things being right in general. They are usually cunning people who smile and are agreeable for expediency.
Getting angry can be healthy, because it shows you care about something that is going wrong, in your opinion. It's the way you channel the anger that can be productive or destructive.
I think a lot of problems spiral out of control because people _don't_ get angry when they actually should. And being kind has little to do with not being angry. The most unkind people I've met don't get angry; they just let things slide, because they don't care about you, or about things being right in general. They are usually cunning people who smile and are agreeable for expediency.
In a healthy society, learning emotional control is part of growing up.
If people in a society are constantly engaging in angry outbursts, it means they feel the need to engage in some kind of threat display, which in turn indicates they're living in fear. If you walk into an organization and discover all the bosses are constantly screaming at their obsequious underlings, who are in turn screaming at their underlings and so on down the line, it probably means everyone's afraid of losing their jobs, and it's a good idea to turn around and walk out the door, if that's an option.
People who deliberately get angry (or sad) in order to get others to do what they want are engaging in emotional manipulation practices, which should be treated as a huge red flag. Such behavior is a common side effect of growing up with manipulative, unhinged and/or abusive parents, and it can be overcome, if the person wants to - but some people get addicted to their emotional highs and lows.
Fundamentally, making good decisions under stress requires a calm rational mind not given to emotional breakdowns and outbursts, and people who don't have that capability should never be placed in positions of responsibility.
If people in a society are constantly engaging in angry outbursts, it means they feel the need to engage in some kind of threat display, which in turn indicates they're living in fear. If you walk into an organization and discover all the bosses are constantly screaming at their obsequious underlings, who are in turn screaming at their underlings and so on down the line, it probably means everyone's afraid of losing their jobs, and it's a good idea to turn around and walk out the door, if that's an option.
People who deliberately get angry (or sad) in order to get others to do what they want are engaging in emotional manipulation practices, which should be treated as a huge red flag. Such behavior is a common side effect of growing up with manipulative, unhinged and/or abusive parents, and it can be overcome, if the person wants to - but some people get addicted to their emotional highs and lows.
Fundamentally, making good decisions under stress requires a calm rational mind not given to emotional breakdowns and outbursts, and people who don't have that capability should never be placed in positions of responsibility.
David Whytes poems about everyday words in his book "Consolations" includes one about anger.
It begins:
"ANGER is the deepest form of compassion, for another, for the world, for the self, for a life, for the body, for a family and for all our ideals, all vulnerable and all, possibly about to be hurt. Stripped of physical imprisonment and violent reaction, anger is the purest form of care, the internal living flame of anger always illuminates what we belong to, what we wish to protect and what we are willing to hazard ourselves for."
.. Can recommend reading the rest (poem and book).
It begins:
"ANGER is the deepest form of compassion, for another, for the world, for the self, for a life, for the body, for a family and for all our ideals, all vulnerable and all, possibly about to be hurt. Stripped of physical imprisonment and violent reaction, anger is the purest form of care, the internal living flame of anger always illuminates what we belong to, what we wish to protect and what we are willing to hazard ourselves for."
.. Can recommend reading the rest (poem and book).
Let fury have the hour
Anger can be power
Do you know that you can use it?
-- The Clash
Anger can be power
Do you know that you can use it?
-- The Clash
I think emotions are over-classified. There are only a few major neurotransmitters that determine our limbic experience, and there is continuity between them. So, in the Kubler-Ross framework for the experience of extreme adverse events, it’s probably more accurate to describe as a transition from sympathetic to parasympathetic, and return to normal.
But ultimately, the cognitive component in all Kubler-Ross emotional stages is the same: a negative comparison of reality versus expectation, on some perceptual timeline. It takes small amounts of dopamine and adrenaline to make changes that affect reality, and serotonin, oxytocin, endorphins etc to accept and ignore reality. Those are really the only choices: do something, or stop caring.
But what happens when you mix them incorrectly?
And this is now more editorial, but I think the problems occur when a brain is constantly hitting the cocktail of accept and ignore to mask the effects of a desire for change. Eventually the inhibitory ligands fail to control the overwhelming buildup, and you get this flood of “do something” mixing in with the “don’t care” cocktail. So that cocktail says, “do something big, and don’t care about the result”.
That might explain a lot of risky human behavior: thrill seeking, promiscuity, gambling, substance abuse, etc. Do something big, and don’t care about the result. It seems completely illogical and stupid, but it’s exactly how we’ve been training our brains since birth.
The “don’t care” cocktail is how we get along and be nice to everybody. And yet we are never good enough, and under threat of losing everything, so we must “do something”, even when there’s not much logical connection between action and desired result.
For instance, the connection between the desire to have a nice family and the action of grinding leetcode is incredibly weak and uncertain, but you have to muster the dopamine for it anyway. And then after years of thankless toil, you finally have a job, but it’s layoff season and you have to accept all sorts of terrible deceit as everybody you’ve been so nice and giving for is stealing credit and shifting blame.
And if you’ve gotten this far, I’ll give you a little story. Things can get crazy when layoffs are announced. One time, this guy was yelling at me about how they didn’t need a data scientist (me), and then he opened up his vest and pulled a gun on me. Real-deal loaded Beretta M9. Pointed straight at me and then slammed on the table. That one messed me up for a while. I know it sounds crazy, but I didn’t associate the things going on in my head with that incident and didn’t say anything, but I was really not feeling well. I was maniacally focused on proving my value, stopped sleeping, and did some relatively groundbreaking work. Eventually I requested two weeks of leave at the worst possible time. While away, I received notification of a prestigious award, and a layoff.
But ultimately, the cognitive component in all Kubler-Ross emotional stages is the same: a negative comparison of reality versus expectation, on some perceptual timeline. It takes small amounts of dopamine and adrenaline to make changes that affect reality, and serotonin, oxytocin, endorphins etc to accept and ignore reality. Those are really the only choices: do something, or stop caring.
But what happens when you mix them incorrectly?
And this is now more editorial, but I think the problems occur when a brain is constantly hitting the cocktail of accept and ignore to mask the effects of a desire for change. Eventually the inhibitory ligands fail to control the overwhelming buildup, and you get this flood of “do something” mixing in with the “don’t care” cocktail. So that cocktail says, “do something big, and don’t care about the result”.
That might explain a lot of risky human behavior: thrill seeking, promiscuity, gambling, substance abuse, etc. Do something big, and don’t care about the result. It seems completely illogical and stupid, but it’s exactly how we’ve been training our brains since birth.
The “don’t care” cocktail is how we get along and be nice to everybody. And yet we are never good enough, and under threat of losing everything, so we must “do something”, even when there’s not much logical connection between action and desired result.
For instance, the connection between the desire to have a nice family and the action of grinding leetcode is incredibly weak and uncertain, but you have to muster the dopamine for it anyway. And then after years of thankless toil, you finally have a job, but it’s layoff season and you have to accept all sorts of terrible deceit as everybody you’ve been so nice and giving for is stealing credit and shifting blame.
And if you’ve gotten this far, I’ll give you a little story. Things can get crazy when layoffs are announced. One time, this guy was yelling at me about how they didn’t need a data scientist (me), and then he opened up his vest and pulled a gun on me. Real-deal loaded Beretta M9. Pointed straight at me and then slammed on the table. That one messed me up for a while. I know it sounds crazy, but I didn’t associate the things going on in my head with that incident and didn’t say anything, but I was really not feeling well. I was maniacally focused on proving my value, stopped sleeping, and did some relatively groundbreaking work. Eventually I requested two weeks of leave at the worst possible time. While away, I received notification of a prestigious award, and a layoff.
Now, when planning public safety, this would be a bad response even for strictly selfish reasons of not wanting to suffer crimes. If tough policing is proven to reduce crime, do tough policing, you don't want to become San Francisco. If giving opportunities or education in jails helps, do that rather than sacrificing your own safety to indulge your understandable anger. And so on. There is even space for empathy with people who have never been given a chance.
In civilized situations there are superior ways to motivate change - justice, snapping out of complacency, enlightened self interest, striving for success. Your boss may be an asshole, but rage quitting could jeopardize your visa or chances of an internal transfer. You need to calm your caveman brain and call upon values instilled upon you by centuries of civilization to get to a good outcome for yourself and others. Unless again, civilization has already failed you, then old ways may be necessary.