California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees(oag.ca.gov)
oag.ca.gov
California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-senator-dodd-senator-skinner-introduce-bill-prohibiting
377 comments
Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you what you're "getting" for those fees, Airbnb service fees, cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights.
Ideally we would take it further and include restaurant fees post-covid for fair wages when instead they frankly should just be hiking the cost of food and paying their teams properly. Not sure if this bill affects the service industry specifically but the late tacking-on of mandatory fees is getting egregious.
---
Edit: I'm staying at an IHG property right now that says I'm getting the following for my $29 amenity fee:
• $15 credit for incidentals
• "premium" wifi
• newspaper access
• tablet from the front desk
• free Lyft within two miles (this is kinda useful if you're too lazy to walk)
• free EV charging
• wine reception
• business center
• gym
• free calls within CONUS
I used none of these and yet they won't refund the fee.
Ideally we would take it further and include restaurant fees post-covid for fair wages when instead they frankly should just be hiking the cost of food and paying their teams properly. Not sure if this bill affects the service industry specifically but the late tacking-on of mandatory fees is getting egregious.
---
Edit: I'm staying at an IHG property right now that says I'm getting the following for my $29 amenity fee:
• $15 credit for incidentals
• "premium" wifi
• newspaper access
• tablet from the front desk
• free Lyft within two miles (this is kinda useful if you're too lazy to walk)
• free EV charging
• wine reception
• business center
• gym
• free calls within CONUS
I used none of these and yet they won't refund the fee.
Taxes and fees should be mandated for all prices up front.
This is how it works in most of the world, there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US.
Someone will come along and point out an edge case, but for the vast majority of retail situations this is doable.
This is how it works in most of the world, there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US.
Someone will come along and point out an edge case, but for the vast majority of retail situations this is doable.
As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees.
From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost.
Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.
From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost.
Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.
This over-regulation will interfere with the God-given right of companies to screw over the suckers. Next they'll be coming after payday loans for usury.
>>> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government.
>>> “Californians are sick and tired of dishonest fees being tacked on to seemingly everything,” said state Senator Bill Dodd. “It’s an underhanded trick...
Why do government-imposed fees get a special exemption these "dishonest" and "underhanded" tricks? :thinking:
;)
Note: In Europe, the advertised price always includes the related taxes: https://www.quora.com/Do-prices-in-Europe-include-taxes
>>> “Californians are sick and tired of dishonest fees being tacked on to seemingly everything,” said state Senator Bill Dodd. “It’s an underhanded trick...
Why do government-imposed fees get a special exemption these "dishonest" and "underhanded" tricks? :thinking:
;)
Note: In Europe, the advertised price always includes the related taxes: https://www.quora.com/Do-prices-in-Europe-include-taxes
Every business has started doing this and I'm glad there is finally some consumer protection happening.. It's worse than the bronze/gold/platinum 'memberships' or 'package' schemes that have shown up everywhere. My dog's boarding place hit me with three fees on pickup (they also have like 200 permutations of packages that try monetize every possible marginal activity - taking pictures with your dog, letting them hang out with staff 'up front', allegedly watching movies with them, each individual toy or treat, etc).
It's sad that we have to look to government to solve basic stuff like this. I'd rather not regulate everything to death but the alternative is annoying shit like this. Like I could try to go to another dog boarding place, but there just aren't that many of them and they probably do the same thing. I bet they're all owned by the same private equity firm anyway.
It's sad that we have to look to government to solve basic stuff like this. I'd rather not regulate everything to death but the alternative is annoying shit like this. Like I could try to go to another dog boarding place, but there just aren't that many of them and they probably do the same thing. I bet they're all owned by the same private equity firm anyway.
While different, it irks me that there are a bunch of hidden fees with UberEats and DoorDash. Not only do delivery companies charge the consumer fees, but restaurants generally raise their prices by 50% if you are buying through an app. That delta is not shown anywhere.
> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government.
I don't get it, so it's OK for government to hide its fees but not the business?
I wish the government were to lead by example and also try to eliminate hidden government fees. Here in California, different cities can have different sales tax, and knowing the final price can seem like a guessing game.
I would love if taxes, tips, and other business fees were all included in a final price that were stated upfront.
I don't get it, so it's OK for government to hide its fees but not the business?
I wish the government were to lead by example and also try to eliminate hidden government fees. Here in California, different cities can have different sales tax, and knowing the final price can seem like a guessing game.
I would love if taxes, tips, and other business fees were all included in a final price that were stated upfront.
I hope this applies to "resort fees" that hotels charge and the dozens of types of service fees that restaurants invent (one around here had an ACA surcharge for political reasons).
I almost booked a Turo for an extended period of time, peer to peer rental cars, it gave me a 40% discount for that time length, but all of that discount was erased by fees and it was more expensive than the previous page said it would be.
Curb stomp them please, thanks.
Curb stomp them please, thanks.
Interesting that fees imposed by the government are specifically exempted in this bill.
This is welcome news.
An egregious example of what they are (hopefully) aiming to stop: https://passingtime.substack.com/p/perfidious-pricing
Also, a 2021 story from the Times about how drip pricing is getting out of control: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/opinion/consumers-drip-pr...
An egregious example of what they are (hopefully) aiming to stop: https://passingtime.substack.com/p/perfidious-pricing
Also, a 2021 story from the Times about how drip pricing is getting out of control: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/opinion/consumers-drip-pr...
Does this mean hospitals will have to tell you what they charge upfront?
Income tax also feels like a hidden fee since it's automatically deducted from your paycheck and is out of sight/out of mind for most people, despite it taking anywhere from a quarter to a third of your income. If people had to pay a monthly tax bill every month, I think they'd think very differently about their level of taxes. Note: I'm not actually advocating that, I think it sounds awful. But the hidden-fee experience feels very similar
I don't use things like Uber Eats very much.. but I did last week. It would literally NOT SHOW ME the all in price before I had to click order. It only showed me what the restaurant was charging me. I think earlier in the process it did show the delivery fees of some sort, to be fair.
But at the very final point they hide it from you, which is absolutely insane it's even legal.
But at the very final point they hide it from you, which is absolutely insane it's even legal.
> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government.
I wish it included the taxes and government fees also. The whole hidden fee culture seems to be enabled by us all being so accustomed to paying extra at checkout.
I wish it included the taxes and government fees also. The whole hidden fee culture seems to be enabled by us all being so accustomed to paying extra at checkout.
The only purpose of a “resort fee” is to deceive. Customers are more likely to book if a lower rate is advertised. Taxing authorities lose revenue because hotel rooms are taxed at a much higher rate than “fees”. Travel agents are shorted their full commissions because they are based on the room rate.
The resort fee scam has spread to other areas. Where do you think Ticketmaster and airlines got the idea to deconstruct their pricing schemes? How about restaurants now adding fees in the fine print for everything from mandated health care to “area marketing plans” to higher cfedit card charges…instead of simply adjusting prices on the menu?
This consumer fraud has been ongoing since at least 1994 in Hawaii and 2010 elsewhere it escaped its “Maui Quarantine”. It is long past time that honesty in pricing be recognized and an enforced as a basic consumer protection.
The resort fee scam has spread to other areas. Where do you think Ticketmaster and airlines got the idea to deconstruct their pricing schemes? How about restaurants now adding fees in the fine print for everything from mandated health care to “area marketing plans” to higher cfedit card charges…instead of simply adjusting prices on the menu?
This consumer fraud has been ongoing since at least 1994 in Hawaii and 2010 elsewhere it escaped its “Maui Quarantine”. It is long past time that honesty in pricing be recognized and an enforced as a basic consumer protection.
I wish this bill was "ban ALL FEES" period. Classifying something as "junk" or "hidden" sounds like a nightmare that plenty of businesses and industries will find way around. Get back to bottom line pricing, taxes included, and watch competition rise while prices fall
Does this law include taxes like Social Security?
Many people think they only pay 7.5% and the company pays the other 7.5% but this is wrong. The employee pays the whole 15%, they just don't see it come out of their check.
Does that count as a "hidden fee?" What about VAT taxes?
Many people think they only pay 7.5% and the company pays the other 7.5% but this is wrong. The employee pays the whole 15%, they just don't see it come out of their check.
Does that count as a "hidden fee?" What about VAT taxes?
I find it very hard to believe that in the long run companies actually profit from having such a confrontational relationship with their customers. Like is getting an extra five dollars a month from me really worth me hating you?
[deleted]
As others have said, I hope this applies to "resort fees" What makes it worse is many hotels having this hidden charge in parallel advertise a "complimentary" breakfast.
I love how this January, my ISP added one new fee and increased the price of an existing fee and the rental cost of my modem (which was bought by a previous ISP to begin with, it's pure profit until it breaks), and those three random fee increases magically total to increasing my bill by exactly ten dollars.
While it was framed as three little fee changes, it's obvious there was a directive to up the bill by $10 a month, and then they just found lines to bump without touching the actual main one.
While it was framed as three little fee changes, it's obvious there was a directive to up the bill by $10 a month, and then they just found lines to bump without touching the actual main one.
> other than taxes and fees imposed by a government
IMO, taxes need to be part of the advertised price.
Part of the reason we tolerate hidden fees in the US is because we're used to paying more than the sticker price for something because it doesn't include taxes (and tip.)
If I lived in CA, I'd contact my reps and ask them to redo the bill to also include taxes and tips. It's not right to eliminate some kinds of hidden fees while still keeping government hidden fees.
IMO, taxes need to be part of the advertised price.
Part of the reason we tolerate hidden fees in the US is because we're used to paying more than the sticker price for something because it doesn't include taxes (and tip.)
If I lived in CA, I'd contact my reps and ask them to redo the bill to also include taxes and tips. It's not right to eliminate some kinds of hidden fees while still keeping government hidden fees.
Guess all of us outside of CA are going make up the difference via higher hidden fees. :(
I started writing this comment as a joke, but I no longer am sure that it is.
I started writing this comment as a joke, but I no longer am sure that it is.
> other than taxes and fees imposed by a government.
Why that exclusion? Why not require the price on the label to be the price you pay?
Why that exclusion? Why not require the price on the label to be the price you pay?
I hope this applies to like Airbnb, Ticketmaster and so on who disclose late service fees.
Can we also mandate any included taxes in the listed price, like elsewhere in the world?
kthxbai
kthxbai
I'm sure every Californian, appropriately for this time of year, are taking a look at that state income tax return looming thinking "God what an amazing use of my tax dollars.. "
Thus, there is a huge incentive for companies to lower the base price and then get it back with these types of fees. Even if they didn't add BS fees, this ease of price comparison has resulted in unbundling of services in a number of industries - e.g. airlines where the base price is akin to "we let you hang on to the wing", and everything else is an upcharge.
This is also a case where consumers say they want one thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full price to be shown up front in search result pages. But, as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this area, the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkout.
To be clear, I'm 100% in favor of this regulation because I think it's the perfect example of where what is good for any individual company leads to a dysfunctional market, and so government can provide a level playing field. Heck, I think many businesses would support this change, because they no longer need to try to one-up their competitors by overcomplicating their pricing structure.