Nano-diamond battery that "lasts for 28k years" closer to commercialization(mining.com)
mining.com
Nano-diamond battery that "lasts for 28k years" closer to commercialization
https://www.mining.com/nano-diamond-battery-that-lasts-for-28000-years-closer-to-becoming-commercial-product/
13 comments
Please don your skeptic hats before reading this article. I'm mainly fascinated that companies with such extraordinary claims can survive or even get enough backing to exist.
Sure thing.
"Micro-batteries Nuclear engineers at the University of Wisconsin, Madison have explored the possibilities of producing minuscule batteries which exploit radioactive nuclei of substances such as polonium or curium to produce electric energy. As an example of an integrated, self-powered application, the researchers have created an oscillating cantilever beam that is capable of consistent, periodic oscillations over very long time periods without the need for refueling. Ongoing work demonstrate that this cantilever is capable of radio frequency transmission, allowing MEMS devices to communicate with one another wirelessly.
These micro-batteries are very light and deliver enough energy to function as power supply for use in MEMS devices and further for supply for nanodevices.[12]
The radiation energy released is transformed into electric energy, which is restricted to the area of the device that contains the processor and the micro-battery that supplies it with energy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
I am skeptical but there is great potential in this.
"Micro-batteries Nuclear engineers at the University of Wisconsin, Madison have explored the possibilities of producing minuscule batteries which exploit radioactive nuclei of substances such as polonium or curium to produce electric energy. As an example of an integrated, self-powered application, the researchers have created an oscillating cantilever beam that is capable of consistent, periodic oscillations over very long time periods without the need for refueling. Ongoing work demonstrate that this cantilever is capable of radio frequency transmission, allowing MEMS devices to communicate with one another wirelessly.
These micro-batteries are very light and deliver enough energy to function as power supply for use in MEMS devices and further for supply for nanodevices.[12]
The radiation energy released is transformed into electric energy, which is restricted to the area of the device that contains the processor and the micro-battery that supplies it with energy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
I am skeptical but there is great potential in this.
Isn't there an entire general term for this? I recall looking into beta-voltaics in college.
Yes indeed, energy harvesting SMD's are the thing:
https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/download/2427688/6fa9508...
https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/download/2427688/6fa9508...
Most of the discussion so far seems to be that there's no way to get sufficient energy density to power electric vehicles. But what they say is it provides "28,000 years of battery life for cell phones, aircraft, rockets, electric vehicles, sensors and other devices and machinery". I'm starting to wonder if they're just being a bit disingenuous rather than flat-out lying - could they mean the lower-power circuits of electric vehicles, rather than the motors turning the wheels?
They say on their website: "No recharging or refueling stations required."
https://ndb.technology/automotive-battery/
:-)
https://ndb.technology/automotive-battery/
:-)
But also "NDB is ideally positioned to contribute and lead change in this industry by addressing the primary bottleneck in EV vehicles, the battery, one that can last as long as the vehicle’s does."
It's a curiously convoluted sentence.
It's a curiously convoluted sentence.
It seems the key challenge with the general technology of atomic batteries is power density. Is there any chance that might be solved?
EEVblog did a debunk of this at https://youtu.be/uzV_uzSTCTM
Basically, the power density of these are so low that they're useless for most applications. Sure, it might last 28,000 years, but you're only getting 100 microwatts from a battery the size of a normal AA battery.
Basically, the power density of these are so low that they're useless for most applications. Sure, it might last 28,000 years, but you're only getting 100 microwatts from a battery the size of a normal AA battery.
Lots of interesting stuff in the video's comments. Apparently their "advanced circuit board" is a regular charging board off AliExpress [0] with the micro USB port switched out for a transformer. Also, their investor pack [1] has no actual information on the power output of the batteries.
[0]: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32703936097.html?trace=wwwdeta...
[1]: https://gofile.io/d/Iorhs5
[0]: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32703936097.html?trace=wwwdeta...
[1]: https://gofile.io/d/Iorhs5
The relevant number is its power of 100 µW.
Flagged this article, I also watched EEVBlog’s take on it and it sounds like complete bullshit.
Let’s not pollute the front page with this nonsense. Please flag this article.
Let’s not pollute the front page with this nonsense. Please flag this article.
You know you're in trouble when thunderf00t AND EEVblog debunk you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFlV0OEK5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFlV0OEK5E
I can't imagine a world where cell phones don't have chargers...and battery life indicators are a thing of the past. Such a surreal thought.
That said, would it be wrong to worry about the dangers of this? I mean, cell phone batteries today spew fire if you puncture them. This tech has to have massive potential energy, can it fail similarly?
That said, would it be wrong to worry about the dangers of this? I mean, cell phone batteries today spew fire if you puncture them. This tech has to have massive potential energy, can it fail similarly?
I’d think there is a massive risk to letting a consumer device ship with polonium in it, no matter how securely it is stored. A speck extracted from a device can kill a human.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...
It seems the best applications would be ones with periodic need of more power and feeding the capacitor from the battery.
We could do away with the battery itself and end up with supercapacitors. There's cool mods to replace car batteries with a permanent supercapacitor since it's perfect for the the crank with low density. Not good for extended use with electricity in the car though
Discussion on reddit two days ago, 350+ comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/iiedk4/energy_f...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/iiedk4/energy_f...
A battery breakthrough is always 3-5 years away from coming to market.
From ages ago when I invested in Maxwell and some others:
Density increases about 6% a year. You can predict the earliest a tech can be commercialized by using the rule of 72. If it’s claiming to double capacity, it’s 12 years out (if ever).
What you may see is corners being cut to simplify manufacturing/improve safety, so it shows up in 5 years but only increases capacity by 35%.
Density increases about 6% a year. You can predict the earliest a tech can be commercialized by using the rule of 72. If it’s claiming to double capacity, it’s 12 years out (if ever).
What you may see is corners being cut to simplify manufacturing/improve safety, so it shows up in 5 years but only increases capacity by 35%.
This is cool, but not actually new - we've had nuclear pacemakers for decades: https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-heart-pacemaker-dc/nuc...
There is no need to be sceptical - this is obviously meant for super low-power devices, not cars.
There is no need to be sceptical - this is obviously meant for super low-power devices, not cars.
And neither phones or similar, as they are not at all super low-power.
I wonder if it might work with thinks like air buds. Or if the constant energy required to make the sound for hours not stop is to high?
I wonder if it might work with thinks like air buds. Or if the constant energy required to make the sound for hours not stop is to high?
Maybe a phone on standby - just listening for calls or something.
A phone would still need a regular battery for normal operation. At that point you can just use for everything
Good point, perhaps tiny IoT devices.
100 uW is nowhere near enough for wireless headphones. They use about 70 milliwats of power, with a 1.5Wh battery lasting 24 hours. So you'd need three orders of magnitude more power.
Right. It's a nuclear battery. "Within the DNV, radioisotopes are placed in a way that facilitates inelastic scattering originated due to the presence of a single crystalline diamond in the unit."
Nuclear batteries work fine, but the hazard problem and the PR problem limit their use. Here's a nuclear battery from the 1960s.[1] That used Krypton-86, which is a gas, so it will disperse if it gets out.
Worth thinking about for devices with very low duty cycles, like temperature sensors and smoke detectors.
The render of a chip is a joke. It's a battery. What would it need that many pins for?
[1] https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/leesona_moos/nuclear_battery...
Nuclear batteries work fine, but the hazard problem and the PR problem limit their use. Here's a nuclear battery from the 1960s.[1] That used Krypton-86, which is a gas, so it will disperse if it gets out.
Worth thinking about for devices with very low duty cycles, like temperature sensors and smoke detectors.
The render of a chip is a joke. It's a battery. What would it need that many pins for?
[1] https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/leesona_moos/nuclear_battery...
I share the skepticism here. Regardless, here are some more-direct sources of info.
NDB's web site: https://ndb.technology/
NDB's recent press release: https://www.prweb.com/releases/ndb_inc_announces_major_techn...
In the press release, you can see the company itself is making the extraordinary claims about applications like electric vehicles and aircraft. (That is, it's not an embellishment by whoever wrote the mining.com article.)
NDB's web site: https://ndb.technology/
NDB's recent press release: https://www.prweb.com/releases/ndb_inc_announces_major_techn...
In the press release, you can see the company itself is making the extraordinary claims about applications like electric vehicles and aircraft. (That is, it's not an embellishment by whoever wrote the mining.com article.)
I think that ultimately trickle charging tech will be incorporated into all-electric mobile and definitely remote systems. Between intermittent loads and self discharge, you need something for station keeping of charge level.
This sounds like it might not be it, but trying to achieve virtue by association.
This sounds like it might not be it, but trying to achieve virtue by association.
Ridiculous. Somebody is trying to raise money from naive people. Sometimes my cell phone gets hot enough that a cat would want to sleep on it.
It's 100 microwatts, and there are other nuclear-decay based betavoltaic batteries on the market, including some used to power pacemakers.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
It may be a nice product, but it's not new, revolutionary, or unique.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
It may be a nice product, but it's not new, revolutionary, or unique.
It would be neat if it could power an 8-bit emulation for 100 years .. think about it: we want to keep old computing platforms around. We make an emulator, power it with this, and drop it out in the desert somewhere, guaranteeing that the lifeforms of the future get a chance to play some classic C64, Spectrum, Apple, Atari games, &etc.
Okay, so maybe I only need one of these devices. And isn't that always the problem with 'earth-shattering technology' - you only seem to need one or two of the thing?
Anyway I'm all for lower power computing using radiation to prolong the useful life of computing devices. Computers don't get old: users do. 28k years is a lot of users.
Okay, so maybe I only need one of these devices. And isn't that always the problem with 'earth-shattering technology' - you only seem to need one or two of the thing?
Anyway I'm all for lower power computing using radiation to prolong the useful life of computing devices. Computers don't get old: users do. 28k years is a lot of users.
Oh that’s why they didn’t provide any numbers except 28k years
This really sounds like pure snake oil: a ton of buzzwords, diamonds and nukes to make it sound exciting and cool, an unbelievably long period of power release (how can they even test that their claim is true ?).
I'd pass until one of those devices has been tested by a slew of independent labs and confirmed to at least deliver the claimed power density.
I'd pass until one of those devices has been tested by a slew of independent labs and confirmed to at least deliver the claimed power density.