‘Clock kid’ Ahmed Mohamed and his family will move to Qatar(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
‘Clock kid’ Ahmed Mohamed and his family will move to Qatar
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/clock-kid-ahmed-mohamed-and-his-family-will-move-to-qatar/2015/10/20/a95ed296-7762-11e5-b9c1-f03c48c96ac2_story.html
14 comments
This is pretty much my takeaway too:
> Ahmed wasn’t accused of making a bomb – he was accused of making a look-alike, a hoax. And be honest with yourself, a big red digital display with a bunch of loose wires in a brief-case looking box is awful like a Hollywood-style representation of a bomb. Everyone jumped to play the race and religion cards and try and paint the teachers and police as idiots and bigots, but in my mind, they were probably acting responsibly and erring on the side of caution to protect the rest of their students, just in case. “This wouldn’t have happened if Ahmed were white,” they say. We’re supposed to be sensitive to school violence, but apparently religious and racial sensitivity trumps that. At least we have another clue about how the sensitivity and moral outrage pecking order lies.
What happened here is really clear, and it has nothing to do with this kid being named "Ahmed." He got in trouble because he made a look-alike bomb. Nobody thought it was a real bomb, but that's besides the point. Plenty of white kids get suspended from school for bringing in toy guns that are clearly, without debate, toys. Maybe "zero tolerance" for weapon look-alikes is a stupid policy, but it's a different sort of stupid policy than what people are attacking in this case.
> Ahmed wasn’t accused of making a bomb – he was accused of making a look-alike, a hoax. And be honest with yourself, a big red digital display with a bunch of loose wires in a brief-case looking box is awful like a Hollywood-style representation of a bomb. Everyone jumped to play the race and religion cards and try and paint the teachers and police as idiots and bigots, but in my mind, they were probably acting responsibly and erring on the side of caution to protect the rest of their students, just in case. “This wouldn’t have happened if Ahmed were white,” they say. We’re supposed to be sensitive to school violence, but apparently religious and racial sensitivity trumps that. At least we have another clue about how the sensitivity and moral outrage pecking order lies.
What happened here is really clear, and it has nothing to do with this kid being named "Ahmed." He got in trouble because he made a look-alike bomb. Nobody thought it was a real bomb, but that's besides the point. Plenty of white kids get suspended from school for bringing in toy guns that are clearly, without debate, toys. Maybe "zero tolerance" for weapon look-alikes is a stupid policy, but it's a different sort of stupid policy than what people are attacking in this case.
He was arrested, not just suspended. It's fair to ask whether they would have avoided escalating that far for a white kid.
It's likewise reasonable to err on the side of caution when it comes to bomb threats, but the story didn't end there.
It's likewise reasonable to err on the side of caution when it comes to bomb threats, but the story didn't end there.
Bringing an imitation weapon into a school is a criminal offense in many places: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/06/virginia-boy-10-arreste....
I think that's really stupid and that people are too sensitive about school shootings, but that's an entirely different argument.
I think that's really stupid and that people are too sensitive about school shootings, but that's an entirely different argument.
"Entirely different argument"? We weren't discussing whether the school reacted poorly?
People can be wrong that:
a) The school should have instantly made Ahmed a saint on seeing his device
while still being correct that:
b) This never should have escalated to arrest.
Both a) and b) speak to the question of whether the school reacted poorly.
People can be wrong that:
a) The school should have instantly made Ahmed a saint on seeing his device
while still being correct that:
b) This never should have escalated to arrest.
Both a) and b) speak to the question of whether the school reacted poorly.
These things don't happen in a vacuum. The school's overreaction was the result of social forces.
The question is: what social forces do we blame in this case? Paranoid gun hating liberals? Or bigoted Muslim-hating conservatives? The media cast blame solidly on the latter group. But I think the facts better support blaming the former group.
The question is: what social forces do we blame in this case? Paranoid gun hating liberals? Or bigoted Muslim-hating conservatives? The media cast blame solidly on the latter group. But I think the facts better support blaming the former group.
Considering the fact that the US has far, far more mass shootings at schools than any other developed nation (most have zero), I'd say the liberals aren't paranoid. They're just watching the news and have pesky souls that make them sad when a child is senselessly, preventably murdered.
I'd say that the dramatic overreactions of zero-tolerance policies in the wake of school shooting have less to do with liberalism or conservatism, and much, much more to do with bureaucratic cover-your-ass-ism, because if you DIDN'T ban nerf guns, what happens when a kid brings a gun disguised as a nerf gun to school?
Certainly the zero-tolerance policy of this and other districts cannot be effective, and certainly they aren't preventing any school shootings -- zero tolerance policies reached their apex in the years after columbine, but there are still shootings on a regular basis. So a liberal that pushes a zero-tolerance policy is certainly not doing it from the rational, evidence-based center of their kind soul.
Certainly the zero-tolerance policy of this and other districts cannot be effective, and certainly they aren't preventing any school shootings -- zero tolerance policies reached their apex in the years after columbine, but there are still shootings on a regular basis. So a liberal that pushes a zero-tolerance policy is certainly not doing it from the rational, evidence-based center of their kind soul.
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I'm going to assume you're getting downvoted because you said "people are too sensitive about school shootings" which is genuinely one of the sickest things I've ever read on HN.
For anyone who doubts this interpretation, here are the relevant district policy documents outlining the classification[1] of "weapons" (which includes "look-alike weapons" in the terminology of the district) and the penalty[2] (mandatory expulsion, as required by Texas state law).
[1] http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do...
[2] http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL)....
Does anyone think that the American media is some unbiased, objective actor that brings stories to the national attention on nothing more than journalistic merit?
Because if you do, you're either stoned or stupid. Remember that this happened in the middle of a news cycle about Donald Trump and other Republicans being islamophobic.
I'm willing to think that the kid and his father aren't deliberately gaming the media machine, but obviously nobody above that level is acting out of anything but self-interest.
[1] http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do...
[2] http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL)....
Does anyone think that the American media is some unbiased, objective actor that brings stories to the national attention on nothing more than journalistic merit?
Because if you do, you're either stoned or stupid. Remember that this happened in the middle of a news cycle about Donald Trump and other Republicans being islamophobic.
I'm willing to think that the kid and his father aren't deliberately gaming the media machine, but obviously nobody above that level is acting out of anything but self-interest.
He assembled two broken clocks together into a $20 box he bought. He didn't make a clock, exactly, but he didn't claim to.
And it changes nothing. To claim that he was trying to make it look like a bomb for attention is absurd.
And it changes nothing. To claim that he was trying to make it look like a bomb for attention is absurd.
To be fair, it changes the narrative from "smart kid builds ingenious working electronic clock" to "tinkering kid disassembles clocks to make them (coincidentally or otherwise) look like Hollywood depictions of a bomb". The background context has the kid messing about with plenty of other electronic devices for fun, but it also has a politically-active father turning up at well-publicised Quran-burning events and claiming shock that the Quran was burned. It's not exactly beyond the realms of possibility that he might have seen the potential for his son's electronic experimentation to end in a suspension and similar barrage of publicity, even if the son himself is merely an innocuous hacker type with a fondness for electronics.
Obviously any suggestion of intent still doesn't excuse the way the police reportedly handled things, or make Dawkins' attitude any less ridiculous.
Obviously any suggestion of intent still doesn't excuse the way the police reportedly handled things, or make Dawkins' attitude any less ridiculous.
>It's not exactly beyond the realms of possibility that he might have seen the potential for his son's electronic experimentation to end in a suspension and similar barrage of publicity.
Even if Ahmed was being a delinquent, I can in no way understand how anyone can think this is true. Unless the father encouraged his son to take a bomb lookalike to school, how the hell could he, a 14 year old boy, have foreseen the act as attracting as much attention as it has? How could anyone?
Even if Ahmed was being a delinquent, I can in no way understand how anyone can think this is true. Unless the father encouraged his son to take a bomb lookalike to school, how the hell could he, a 14 year old boy, have foreseen the act as attracting as much attention as it has? How could anyone?
> And it changes nothing. To claim that he was trying to make it look like a bomb for attention is absurd.
What is more absurd: that a teenager violated a school rule to get attention, or that a whole bunch of school administrators and police officers couldn't tell an alarm clock apart from a bomb?
What is more absurd: that a teenager violated a school rule to get attention, or that a whole bunch of school administrators and police officers couldn't tell an alarm clock apart from a bomb?
What's more absurd that he was suspended for either a silly prank, or for plugging an alarm clock with exposed wires and a transformer into an AC socket which went off during a class, refused to cooperate with the school administrators, and later then police or that Google invited him to the Science Fair for putting a radio shack clock in a box which put him in the same club as other attendees like 17 year old Olivia Hallisey who got her spot for inventing a new faster, cheaper, and more reliable method of detecting Ebola
http://googleforeducation.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/spotlight-o... or 13 year old Pranav Sivakumar who designed a machine learning algorithm that can detect Quasars through gravitational lensing which is now also being used to discover dark matter clusters http://googleforeducation.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/spotlight-o...?
The administration knew it wasn't a bomb. If they actually thought it was a bomb, even slightly, they would have had a bomb drill. They have bomb drills for anonymous phone calls for shit's sake. They knew it was a hoax and he was attention seeking which is why he was sent to the office.
> The administration knew it wasn't a bomb. If they actually thought it was a bomb, even slightly, they would have had a bomb drill.
That may make unwarranted assumptions about competence of the particular officials involved. Though, I'd say that if they thought it was a bomb, then their reaction was just as bad as if they didn't, for a different set of reasons.
That may make unwarranted assumptions about competence of the particular officials involved. Though, I'd say that if they thought it was a bomb, then their reaction was just as bad as if they didn't, for a different set of reasons.
What's most absurd is that his parents weren't wise enough (optimistic theory) to tell their kid that this was a very shitty idea.
This is a case of parents using their child as a publicity stunt (pessimistic theory).
This is a case of parents using their child as a publicity stunt (pessimistic theory).
That's irrelevant to the question of Ahmed's intent
Can we at least admit to ourselves that what he built would have passed for a bomb in a movie? Because while I agree the whole thing was handled poorly, it's not completely implausible to think that was a bomb.
Even in movies, bombs usually have this thing known as "explosives" attached to them somewhere.
Can we at least admit to ourselves that what he built would have passed for a bomb in a movie?
Can we at least admit that movies have approximately zero relevance to reality?
Can we at least admit that movies have approximately zero relevance to reality?
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> Can we at least admit to ourselves that what he built would have passed for a bomb in a movie?
In the same way that a person dressed in the black garb worn by stagehands, by theatrical convention, passes as invisible. The appearance of bombs in movies is an artistic convention designed to provide dramatic tension.
> Because while I agree the whole thing was handled poorly, it's not completely implausible to think that was a bomb.
The school action would be even more ludicrously inappropriate if they did think it was a bomb.
In the same way that a person dressed in the black garb worn by stagehands, by theatrical convention, passes as invisible. The appearance of bombs in movies is an artistic convention designed to provide dramatic tension.
> Because while I agree the whole thing was handled poorly, it's not completely implausible to think that was a bomb.
The school action would be even more ludicrously inappropriate if they did think it was a bomb.
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Why is it so absurd? Because young people never do stupid things for attention? Was the school/police reaction over the top? Yes, for sure. Is the counter-reaction given to this kid in an effort to appear to appear to be on the side of goodness and rationality equally silly? Absolutely.
Because he didn't, period.
There are only two scenarios here that are tenable. Either he built a real bomb and brought it to school or he didn't build a real bomb.
If he didn't build a real bomb then the question becomes whether or not he attempted to scare people with a hoax bomb.
Unquestionably he didn't build a real bomb. Moreover, he didn't attempt to scare anyone with a fake bomb either. He brought a clock to school. He insisted to everyone that it was a clock. And he tried to avoid showing it to people.
That is not a hoax bomb in any sense of the word. If you don't have a hoax bomb and you don't have a real bomb then what do you have? Panic, and bigotry. Nothing more.
There are only two scenarios here that are tenable. Either he built a real bomb and brought it to school or he didn't build a real bomb.
If he didn't build a real bomb then the question becomes whether or not he attempted to scare people with a hoax bomb.
Unquestionably he didn't build a real bomb. Moreover, he didn't attempt to scare anyone with a fake bomb either. He brought a clock to school. He insisted to everyone that it was a clock. And he tried to avoid showing it to people.
That is not a hoax bomb in any sense of the word. If you don't have a hoax bomb and you don't have a real bomb then what do you have? Panic, and bigotry. Nothing more.
What you're saying is against everything else that has been said. He showed it to every teacher that day until he was sent to the office. He plugged it into the wall so it would beep and get the teacher's attention. I am sure he said "hey guys it's just a clock!!!" with a shit eating grin knowing people's reactions to it was that it didn't look like "just a clock". I know because I was that kid at his age too and did shit like this (but with pictures of things like looked like a penis but TOTALLY WEREN'T GUYZ!!!).
But see, I could make something that I called a "clock", and tell people that it was a "clock", and still deliberately make it seem like I've got a bomb that I'm trying to pass off as a clock. The "trying to avoid showing it to people" kind of fits this idea.
Ah yes, the classic "check out this extremely cunning and subtle genius who is too dumb to build his own clock right."
That is not how zero-tolerance policies are enforced in any school district.
> That is not how zero-tolerance policies are enforced in any school district.
Zero-tolerance policies are their own can of worms, but neither such policies nor any possible explanation of their enforcement explains the characterizations made after the fact by both school and law enforcement officials regarding the supposed "hoax bomb".
Zero-tolerance policies are their own can of worms, but neither such policies nor any possible explanation of their enforcement explains the characterizations made after the fact by both school and law enforcement officials regarding the supposed "hoax bomb".
http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do...
http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL)....
These are the relevant documents. They are short enough to read them in less than 5 minutes. Can you tell me what the legally-mandated punishment is for bringing a non-weapon that resembles a weapon onto school grounds is?
It's easy to bikeshed about "characterizations", but there are legally no other ways the school district could have reacted on the day they were making decisions.
http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL)....
These are the relevant documents. They are short enough to read them in less than 5 minutes. Can you tell me what the legally-mandated punishment is for bringing a non-weapon that resembles a weapon onto school grounds is?
It's easy to bikeshed about "characterizations", but there are legally no other ways the school district could have reacted on the day they were making decisions.
> Can you tell me what the legally-mandated punishment is for bringing a non-weapon that resembles a weapon onto school grounds is?
Can you explain the relevance since -- except in the sense that every digital clock in existence resembles a fictional weapon through the Hollywood tendency to depict bombs as digital clock displays -- the actual device in question does not in any meaningful sense resemble a weapon.
Can you explain the relevance since -- except in the sense that every digital clock in existence resembles a fictional weapon through the Hollywood tendency to depict bombs as digital clock displays -- the actual device in question does not in any meaningful sense resemble a weapon.
Do you think that matters at all? Literally everyone involved in this chain of decisions, from the teacher to the school principal to the superindendent, are only interested in covering their own ass. They don't need to think that the device in question resembles a weapon, they just need to think that ANYONE will at ANY TIME think that it does and penalize them for not acting as the law mandates.
Further, you answer your own question.
Remember that chicken fingers qualify as weapons under these policies.
Further, you answer your own question.
Remember that chicken fingers qualify as weapons under these policies.
It does change things as the media (including the social media) has presented things much differently.
Why is it absurd?
Whether it's true or false is another issue (I don't claim to know his motivations) but absurd?
Whether it's true or false is another issue (I don't claim to know his motivations) but absurd?
I don't see how that changes the story at all.
Whether or not he built the clock, the important thing is that he didn't build a bomb and was arrested by police officers who (then and now) fully admitted that he had committed no crime whatsoever.
Whether or not he built the clock, the important thing is that he didn't build a bomb and was arrested by police officers who (then and now) fully admitted that he had committed no crime whatsoever.
He wasn't arrested for building a bomb, but for building a fake bomb. I don't think you should arrest a kid for that even if it did, it's not worth it.
However, it's not insane to think he was trying to cause an incident. The hypothesis goes: he wanted to get a teacher to believe he had a bomb so that he could claim religious profiling and racism. If that is what happened, that technically is a crime because the bomb was a hoax bomb.
Why would someone think he was trying to trick a teacher into thinking it was a bomb. It's a weird thing to bring to school. It's not like he actually make a clock on his own. Clocks are not super impressive, but it's a good beginner amateur electronics project. But he didn't even do that. His comments in the media don't really show any understanding of electronics.
Why was he so proud of pulling apart an off the shelf alarm clock and nailing it into a pencil case? He brought it out in each class of the day for no reason. He set it to go off in class for some reason.
And then when he was questioned about it, he was reportedly very tight lipped. He could have been nervous being in trouble. Or he could have been trying to create a scandal.
Mark Cuban said when he called the kid that someone else was feeding him answers. His sister got in trouble in a bomb scare situation at the same school district.
And then the family goes on a media tour meeting with mass murdering Islamic leaders--al-Bashir. And suddenly the family is moving to Qatar.
His Father was also involved in a high profile media circus regarding a Koran burning.
It's not clear that it was a purposeful stunt. But I don't think it requires conspiracy level thinking to believe it was.
However, it's not insane to think he was trying to cause an incident. The hypothesis goes: he wanted to get a teacher to believe he had a bomb so that he could claim religious profiling and racism. If that is what happened, that technically is a crime because the bomb was a hoax bomb.
Why would someone think he was trying to trick a teacher into thinking it was a bomb. It's a weird thing to bring to school. It's not like he actually make a clock on his own. Clocks are not super impressive, but it's a good beginner amateur electronics project. But he didn't even do that. His comments in the media don't really show any understanding of electronics.
Why was he so proud of pulling apart an off the shelf alarm clock and nailing it into a pencil case? He brought it out in each class of the day for no reason. He set it to go off in class for some reason.
And then when he was questioned about it, he was reportedly very tight lipped. He could have been nervous being in trouble. Or he could have been trying to create a scandal.
Mark Cuban said when he called the kid that someone else was feeding him answers. His sister got in trouble in a bomb scare situation at the same school district.
And then the family goes on a media tour meeting with mass murdering Islamic leaders--al-Bashir. And suddenly the family is moving to Qatar.
His Father was also involved in a high profile media circus regarding a Koran burning.
It's not clear that it was a purposeful stunt. But I don't think it requires conspiracy level thinking to believe it was.
Bringing an alarm clock to school and NOT setting it to go off during class is more suspicious to me.
It changes it dramatically. People are saying he got in trouble because of racist school administration being overzealous. The reality, according to the best information we have, is that he was intentionally antagonizing his teachers for attention. What he made is a few blocks of play-doh away from looking like a bomb. A teacher sent him to the office for making what undeniably looks like a hoax bomb. Zero effort went into this - it wasn't a science project, it wasn't inventive, it wasn't something worth showing off other than "hehe this looks like a bomb!".
The way he was treated by officers was absolutely shitty, but it wasn't any different than how officers treat people all day, every day, at schools all across America.
The way he was treated by officers was absolutely shitty, but it wasn't any different than how officers treat people all day, every day, at schools all across America.
> The way he was treated by officers was absolutely shitty, but it wasn't any different than how officers treat people all day, every day, at schools all across America.
If Ahmed Mohamed's case leads to a change in this area, I think a lot is won.
If Ahmed Mohamed's case leads to a change in this area, I think a lot is won.
The city leadership and police department leadership being 100% unapologetic and unwavering in their actions says otherwise.
> the important thing is that he didn't build a bomb and was arrested by police officers
He was arrested on suspicion of perpetrating a bomb hoax. There may be a legitimate purpose for putting an existing clock inside a box where it can't be seen, and having it go off during class. But I'm less outraged if it turns out that law enforcement's only failure was missing out on that legitimate purpose when called to make a judgment on the spot.
He was arrested on suspicion of perpetrating a bomb hoax. There may be a legitimate purpose for putting an existing clock inside a box where it can't be seen, and having it go off during class. But I'm less outraged if it turns out that law enforcement's only failure was missing out on that legitimate purpose when called to make a judgment on the spot.
Yea, but I can see through how much of a poser he is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvB1I7uMGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvB1I7uMGg
If a kid was waving around a plastic gun that was painted black, would it be the same social justice concern?
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"Conspiracy theory" most of the time means exactly "legitimate criticism that the article/TV/politician wants to gloss over".
No, usually it means "something with no shred of legitimacy or basis in facts that supporters will nonetheless defend with vitriol".
But nice try.
But nice try.
Unfortunately for your snark, the facts are against you.
Fact 1: Ahmed claimed to have "invented" this clock in a video. He did not. It is proven without a doubt to be a radio shack clock's guts stuffed in a case.
Fact 2: The clock was powered via AC, meaning no beeping (one thing all accounts report on) unless it was plugged in. Which it did. Who plugs in an alarm clock in English class?
Fact 3: His engineering teacher, the guy he supposedly brought it in to show, told him to leave it with him / not show it to other teachers. He did otherwise.
Fact 4: There is no legitimate evidence that this incident was based on race. Plenty of white kids getting kicked out of school for toy guns.
Fact 5: His dad is a known political agitator, most famously for a koran-burning incident in Florida a while back.
Taken alone, any one of these things don't really mean much. Added up, there aren't many scenarios that look good for him.
I really don't see why this is so outlandish to consider - it takes knowledge that school admins are generally idiots, combined with a misguided desire to either highlight a legitimate problem (said idiocy or islamophobia, take your pick), or plain old fashioned fame seeking.
Not exactly rare mindsets.
Fact 1: Ahmed claimed to have "invented" this clock in a video. He did not. It is proven without a doubt to be a radio shack clock's guts stuffed in a case.
Fact 2: The clock was powered via AC, meaning no beeping (one thing all accounts report on) unless it was plugged in. Which it did. Who plugs in an alarm clock in English class?
Fact 3: His engineering teacher, the guy he supposedly brought it in to show, told him to leave it with him / not show it to other teachers. He did otherwise.
Fact 4: There is no legitimate evidence that this incident was based on race. Plenty of white kids getting kicked out of school for toy guns.
Fact 5: His dad is a known political agitator, most famously for a koran-burning incident in Florida a while back.
Taken alone, any one of these things don't really mean much. Added up, there aren't many scenarios that look good for him.
I really don't see why this is so outlandish to consider - it takes knowledge that school admins are generally idiots, combined with a misguided desire to either highlight a legitimate problem (said idiocy or islamophobia, take your pick), or plain old fashioned fame seeking.
Not exactly rare mindsets.
> Fact 1: Ahmed claimed to have "invented" this clock in a video. He did not. It is proven without a doubt to be a radio shack clock's guts stuffed in a case.
So what? That's irrelevant to the reason people are interested in this case. (Nobody cares what exactly he built, people care that he was arrested despite it being completely harmless.)
> Fact 2: The clock was powered via AC, meaning no beeping (one thing all accounts report on) unless it was plugged in. Which it did. Who plugs in an alarm clock in English class?
There's a 9-volt battery cable clearly visible in every photo of the clock.
> Fact 3: His engineering teacher, the guy he supposedly brought it in to show, told him to leave it with him / not show it to other teachers. He did otherwise.
He earlier set the alarm, then forgot that it was set.
> Fact 4: There is no legitimate evidence that this incident was based on race. Plenty of white kids getting kicked out of school for toy guns.
I'll grant you that one, but regardless of the kid's race the reaction of the school staff and police was utterly unacceptable. That is the important thing about this story.
> Fact 5: His dad is a known political agitator, most famously for a koran-burning incident in Florida a while back.
So what?
> Taken alone, any one of these things don't really mean much. Added up, there aren't many scenarios that look good for him.
No, this is at best irrelevant stuff ("he didn't really build a clock!") and at worst conspiracy theory ("his dad is a political agitator!") stuff.
I had no clue there were so many conspiracy theories in play around this simple story so soon after it broke, nor that so many people on HackerNews would be conspiracy theorists, or I probably wouldn't have posted in this thread at all.
Because seriously, this is ridiculous.
So what? That's irrelevant to the reason people are interested in this case. (Nobody cares what exactly he built, people care that he was arrested despite it being completely harmless.)
> Fact 2: The clock was powered via AC, meaning no beeping (one thing all accounts report on) unless it was plugged in. Which it did. Who plugs in an alarm clock in English class?
There's a 9-volt battery cable clearly visible in every photo of the clock.
> Fact 3: His engineering teacher, the guy he supposedly brought it in to show, told him to leave it with him / not show it to other teachers. He did otherwise.
He earlier set the alarm, then forgot that it was set.
> Fact 4: There is no legitimate evidence that this incident was based on race. Plenty of white kids getting kicked out of school for toy guns.
I'll grant you that one, but regardless of the kid's race the reaction of the school staff and police was utterly unacceptable. That is the important thing about this story.
> Fact 5: His dad is a known political agitator, most famously for a koran-burning incident in Florida a while back.
So what?
> Taken alone, any one of these things don't really mean much. Added up, there aren't many scenarios that look good for him.
No, this is at best irrelevant stuff ("he didn't really build a clock!") and at worst conspiracy theory ("his dad is a political agitator!") stuff.
I had no clue there were so many conspiracy theories in play around this simple story so soon after it broke, nor that so many people on HackerNews would be conspiracy theorists, or I probably wouldn't have posted in this thread at all.
Because seriously, this is ridiculous.
The reason he was arrested was due to possession of a hoax bomb, not a misidentified not-bomb. That first thing is against school and state rules all on its own. After it was determined more or less that there was no intent to make something that looked like a bomb, he was released.
And as to lying about it being an invention: "Goes to character, your honor"
The 9V battery is responsible for maintaining settings in case of a power outage - I've got a clock similar to (but much newer than) that one on my nightstand - it does not power the device on its own.
He disregarded his eng. teacher's instructions.
If the "important thing" is that the police/teachers overreacted (which isn't in question.. zero tolerance is dumb), then why is the media, the goddamn president, and half of this thread trying to make it a race/islamophobia issue?
And as to lying about it being an invention: "Goes to character, your honor"
The 9V battery is responsible for maintaining settings in case of a power outage - I've got a clock similar to (but much newer than) that one on my nightstand - it does not power the device on its own.
He disregarded his eng. teacher's instructions.
If the "important thing" is that the police/teachers overreacted (which isn't in question.. zero tolerance is dumb), then why is the media, the goddamn president, and half of this thread trying to make it a race/islamophobia issue?
There's a 9-volt battery cable clearly visible in every photo of the clock.
Many/most plug-in digital alarm clocks use a 9-volt battery to keep time in the event of a power failure, but the battery can't light the display. Some clocks will still sound their scheduled alarm if the battery is connected but AC power is not.
The volatility of this thread is pretty nuts, with posts rapidly alternating between gray and black with every reload, so this will be my only post. I just wanted to point out a common commercial alarm clock design element.
Many/most plug-in digital alarm clocks use a 9-volt battery to keep time in the event of a power failure, but the battery can't light the display. Some clocks will still sound their scheduled alarm if the battery is connected but AC power is not.
The volatility of this thread is pretty nuts, with posts rapidly alternating between gray and black with every reload, so this will be my only post. I just wanted to point out a common commercial alarm clock design element.
> Fact 1: Ahmed claimed to have "invented" this clock in a video.
Which he did. He invented his particular clock arrangement. Not clocks in general... he's like... 3000 years too late on that front. Yes, it wasn't a complex project... but he's 17, who cares. Has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
> Fact 2: [...] Who plugs in an alarm clock in English class?
Teenagers, ones showing off their stuff to friends in particular. Has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
> Fact 3: [...] He did otherwise.
Because teenagers always listen to teachers, right? Worst case - confiscate it until the end of the day, maybe a detention. Has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
> Fact 4: There is no legitimate evidence that this incident was based on race. Plenty of white kids getting kicked out of school for toy guns.
Well... the police statements at the time were certainly racially ill-advised, but I'll give you this one under extreme charity. If you don't think that being brown skinned and named Ahmed Mohamed had anything to do with the over-reaction then I have a bridge to sell you. This is pretty obvious from you "legitimate evidence" dog whistle... as there's plenty of circumstantial and social evidence, but I doubt you'd call that "legitimate".
So far you're 1 for 4 here, not doing well.
> Fact 5: His dad is a known political agitator
Literally has nothing to do with Ahmed. So.. again has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
For being "against me" the facts you provide are pretty junk.
Which he did. He invented his particular clock arrangement. Not clocks in general... he's like... 3000 years too late on that front. Yes, it wasn't a complex project... but he's 17, who cares. Has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
> Fact 2: [...] Who plugs in an alarm clock in English class?
Teenagers, ones showing off their stuff to friends in particular. Has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
> Fact 3: [...] He did otherwise.
Because teenagers always listen to teachers, right? Worst case - confiscate it until the end of the day, maybe a detention. Has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
> Fact 4: There is no legitimate evidence that this incident was based on race. Plenty of white kids getting kicked out of school for toy guns.
Well... the police statements at the time were certainly racially ill-advised, but I'll give you this one under extreme charity. If you don't think that being brown skinned and named Ahmed Mohamed had anything to do with the over-reaction then I have a bridge to sell you. This is pretty obvious from you "legitimate evidence" dog whistle... as there's plenty of circumstantial and social evidence, but I doubt you'd call that "legitimate".
So far you're 1 for 4 here, not doing well.
> Fact 5: His dad is a known political agitator
Literally has nothing to do with Ahmed. So.. again has no relevance to the subsequent school or police action.
For being "against me" the facts you provide are pretty junk.
. as there's plenty of circumstantial and social evidence,
In which case you should share it with everyone else. I'm flat out saying there isn't any, other than a meme and confirmation bias.
In which case you should share it with everyone else. I'm flat out saying there isn't any, other than a meme and confirmation bias.
I'm just going to re-reply to this since it's 8 hours later: not one poster in this thread was able to bring up a single shred of evidence that supported the idea Ahmed's treatment was due to his race or religion, or indeed due to anything other than the same nonsense zero-tolerance policies we're all familiar with.
I conclude that this idea exists purely as a media-created fantasy. "Racism exists, therefore that's what happened in this case.".
I conclude that this idea exists purely as a media-created fantasy. "Racism exists, therefore that's what happened in this case.".
No, most people just give up on arguing with repeatedly debunked conspiracy theorists.
You're being treated like 911 Truth people. Rightfully ignored. Just because you're too dumb to work it out you're claiming victory.
You're being treated like 911 Truth people. Rightfully ignored. Just because you're too dumb to work it out you're claiming victory.
Uh, no, it mostly means "insane hypothesis which no amount of evidence can disprove but which some people will believe in regardless", such as the conspiracy theory that Jews perpetrated 9/11 or that vaccines cause autism or that Obama was born in Kenya.
So, case-modding.
That's an art form as well.
That's an art form as well.
Especially for high-school kids who are getting started in tech
But not usually worthy of a White House invitation.
Neither would actually building a clock from scratch have been, usually.
The White House invitation was a direct counter to the negative overreaction of local officials, and a means of sending a message to other tinkerers -- and other local officials -- that the kind of reaction that occurred was not acceptable.
The White House invitation was a direct counter to the negative overreaction of local officials, and a means of sending a message to other tinkerers -- and other local officials -- that the kind of reaction that occurred was not acceptable.
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The one thing I don't understand is how it went off in class. Did he plug it in? Do classrooms all have plugs for laptops now or did he have to situate himself near one? Alternatively, did he use the battery backup? Wouldn't that mean he set the alarm for during class when it was plugged in and then unplugged it?
From the pictures this type of clock has a 9v battery for when the power goes off, not enough power to drive the display but enough to trigger the alarm. This would also explain why (maybe) he didn't realize it would go off during class.
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His father has run for president in Sudan and last made headlines for debating a Florida pastor who burned a Quran.
This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kicked out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb.
This whole episode was engineered by a politically active family, who is now running off to Qatar with all the free publicity and stuff gullible Americans gave them.
Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident.
This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kicked out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb.
This whole episode was engineered by a politically active family, who is now running off to Qatar with all the free publicity and stuff gullible Americans gave them.
Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident.
> This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kicked out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb.
Cite? That's contrary to all the reports I've seen.
Even if he did plug it in in the classroom instead of simply forgetting that the alarm was set, it still doesn't justify the actions of the school employees or police.
This is the second time in this comments section someone has posted a conspiracy-esque "it didn't happen the way the press said!" and the second time that the conspiracy theory has completely missed the point of the incident.
Cite? That's contrary to all the reports I've seen.
Even if he did plug it in in the classroom instead of simply forgetting that the alarm was set, it still doesn't justify the actions of the school employees or police.
This is the second time in this comments section someone has posted a conspiracy-esque "it didn't happen the way the press said!" and the second time that the conspiracy theory has completely missed the point of the incident.
Ahmed himself admits he plugged the clock into the wall and it was beeping:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=801_1443042484
Teachers are required by law to report potential threats to the administration and law enforcement. The police are required by law to investigate potential threats reported in schools. Ahmed was apparently uncooperative with the police, leading to further confusion and suspicion.
This was deliberate.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=801_1443042484
Teachers are required by law to report potential threats to the administration and law enforcement. The police are required by law to investigate potential threats reported in schools. Ahmed was apparently uncooperative with the police, leading to further confusion and suspicion.
This was deliberate.
> This whole episode was engineered by a politically active family, who is now running off to Qatar with all the free publicity and stuff gullible Americans gave them.
The more I read into the story the more it seemed like the kid wasn't as innocent as he appeared to be when the story broke out...
The more I read into the story the more it seemed like the kid wasn't as innocent as he appeared to be when the story broke out...
>Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident.
Care to record this prediction on predictionbook.com or better yet, a betting site?
Edit: Because it's interesting, and I think something like this deserves to be aggregated and quantified.
Care to record this prediction on predictionbook.com or better yet, a betting site?
Edit: Because it's interesting, and I think something like this deserves to be aggregated and quantified.
> he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kicked out of class
I'm trying to imagine how this would happen and I'm failing. Do you have some sources to back this story up?
I'm trying to imagine how this would happen and I'm failing. Do you have some sources to back this story up?
I'm surprised that Obama stuck his nose in this. He really should let "local news" be local. Not everything has to be a federal case.
And when I was 14, I was building real digital clocks out of 7400-series TTL chips. And so were many other nerdy kids back in 1976.
And when I was 14, I was building real digital clocks out of 7400-series TTL chips. And so were many other nerdy kids back in 1976.
> I'm surprised that Obama stuck his nose in this. He really should let "local news" be local.
It was already national news getting heavy coverage at the time. So, letting local news be local wasn't relevant to this case at that point.
It was already national news getting heavy coverage at the time. So, letting local news be local wasn't relevant to this case at that point.
>Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident.
One of the biggest allies to US doing that? Can you not talk about things you know nothing about please?
One of the biggest allies to US doing that? Can you not talk about things you know nothing about please?
》After withdrawing from school in Texas, the boy’s family embraced the opportunities that came from his brush with the law. He visited the Google Science Fair, met with Sudan’s President Omar al Bashir, posed with the queen of Jordan at a United Nations Summit, appeared on the “Doctor Oz” show and last night, made it to the White House.
Great for him and his family. I hope that he finds someone who kindles his curiosity and turns it into a force for human progress in the future.
For those of us who remain in the United States: I think it's a sad state of affairs when "embracing opportunities" that result from horrendous discrimination in Texas means associating with a country best known for one of the worst genocides in recent memory (yes I know that the situation has changed in the last decade, but most people probably dont) and moving to a country widely known for effectively enslaving thousands for the sake of a sports tournament.
[Edit] horrendous smartphone copy paste
Great for him and his family. I hope that he finds someone who kindles his curiosity and turns it into a force for human progress in the future.
For those of us who remain in the United States: I think it's a sad state of affairs when "embracing opportunities" that result from horrendous discrimination in Texas means associating with a country best known for one of the worst genocides in recent memory (yes I know that the situation has changed in the last decade, but most people probably dont) and moving to a country widely known for effectively enslaving thousands for the sake of a sports tournament.
[Edit] horrendous smartphone copy paste
>For those of us who remain in the United States: I think it's a sad state of affairs when "embracing opportunities" that result from horrendous discrimination in Texas means associating with a country best known for one of the worst genocides in recent memory
Yeah I'm sure the only option was to move to Oman. Come on, this is one of many opportunities offered and they decided to go to Oman. You're aware this kid just got his picture with al-Bashir - a man facing ICC charges for genocide in Darfur. I hope this kid's family has his best interests at heart.
Yeah I'm sure the only option was to move to Oman. Come on, this is one of many opportunities offered and they decided to go to Oman. You're aware this kid just got his picture with al-Bashir - a man facing ICC charges for genocide in Darfur. I hope this kid's family has his best interests at heart.
If you had spent most of your life integrating with Western culture, only to have your very identity targeted and put into the [inter]national spotlight, I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed if your first reaction was to go to the polar opposite (in this case, other nations whose government and population are heavily influenced by Islam). We're not even talking about basic discrimination but a situation where the victim was put on a stage many years before he could be prepared for it, if such a thing is even possible for an unwilling participant. Imagine the horror his parents went through when their child was subject to such an ordeal and it's hard to blame them for throwing their hands up and saying "fuck western nations", especially given the response of many European nations to the Syrian refugee crisis and the mass migration of Muslims to the EU overy recent decades.
My comment was rather flippant because in reality he can have a much better life in poorer parts of the world where he is in the overwhelming majority (and educated) instead of in a nation where he is overwhelmingly a minority. Regardless, going from the United States, a country built on the idea of a cultural melting pot, to Qatar or Sudan makes me very sad.
My comment was rather flippant because in reality he can have a much better life in poorer parts of the world where he is in the overwhelming majority (and educated) instead of in a nation where he is overwhelmingly a minority. Regardless, going from the United States, a country built on the idea of a cultural melting pot, to Qatar or Sudan makes me very sad.
Yeah, they probably did say "fuck western nations". Right after visiting the White House and the leader of the nation (and going to the Google science fair and meeting Sergey Brin). Right after that they decided "fuck the west".
Are you blaming them for not rejecting opportunities to meet some of the most powerful and influential people in the world to spite them for what happened in Texas?
No.
I'm pointing out that it doesn't seem very likely that they have a "fuck the west" attitude if they're still cool with meeting the President of the United States and visiting the White house.
I'm pointing out that it doesn't seem very likely that they have a "fuck the west" attitude if they're still cool with meeting the President of the United States and visiting the White house.
What's the story here?
>He visited the Google Science Fair, met with Sudan’s President Omar al Bashir, posed with the queen of Jordan at a United Nations Summit, appeared on the “Doctor Oz” show and last night, made it to the White House.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_al-Bashir
In March 2009, al-Bashir became the first sitting president to be indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC), for allegedly directing a campaign of mass killing, rape, and pillage against civilians in Darfur.
In October 2005, al-Bashir's government negotiated an end to the Second Sudanese Civil War, leading to a referendum in the South, resulting in the separation of the south into the separate country of South Sudan. In the Darfur region, he oversaw the War in Darfur that has resulted in death tolls that are about 10,000 according to the Sudanese Government, but most sources suggest between 200,000 and 400,000.
>He visited the Google Science Fair, met with Sudan’s President Omar al Bashir, posed with the queen of Jordan at a United Nations Summit, appeared on the “Doctor Oz” show and last night, made it to the White House.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_al-Bashir
In March 2009, al-Bashir became the first sitting president to be indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC), for allegedly directing a campaign of mass killing, rape, and pillage against civilians in Darfur.
In October 2005, al-Bashir's government negotiated an end to the Second Sudanese Civil War, leading to a referendum in the South, resulting in the separation of the south into the separate country of South Sudan. In the Darfur region, he oversaw the War in Darfur that has resulted in death tolls that are about 10,000 according to the Sudanese Government, but most sources suggest between 200,000 and 400,000.
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Much of the online commentary I've seen of the aftermath seems to be along the lines of, "See? It was all a stunt!" I expect this will be met with, "See? He IS a terrorist!" Personally, I think the overreaction and resulting media storm have just ruined the kids life. Where can he go and be a normal, if perhaps unusually inclined to STEM, kid? Nowhere in the US, that's for sure.
There's no where in the US this kid can go and pursue an education in a STEM field? You really believe that? Good lord HN is a pool of overreaction.
There's a difference between pursuing an education and being treated normally socially. I mean "ruined his life" is an exaggeration, I'll admit, but it's pretty tough to get this much attention in a controversy and then just leave that all behind. A significant portion of my friends think he's a terrorist, for goodness sakes...
Socially, I'd think in most parts of the country he can choose between being "hey, check out the funny story behind my 15 mins of fame Ahmed" to his friends, "I too have been a victim of police oppression Ahmed" or just another normal kid with an extremely common Islamic name. I doubt many of your friends that think he's a terrorist would recognise him if he walked past them on the street tomorrow, unless he happened to be carrying a clock.
Yeah, it's a situation that should never have happened. If your friends think he's a terrorist, get new friends. It's one to think his family faked it for attention (which I don't, but it isn't like the father doesn't have a history of attracting attention to himself on purpose), another to just call them terrorists.
Me getting new friends doesn't help Ahmed. The same attitude is all over. That's my point. Huge portions of America think the kid's a terrorist. That's not HN exaggeration. That is literally the words coming off their keyboard. I don't think he stood a chance of a normal life in America.
I guess I can't argue that he'd have a normal life now. I totally don't buy that "huge portions of america think the kid's a terrorist", but we can stop our discussion here.
He has met with leaders all around the world and gotten the attention of major tech companies. His life is nowhere close to ruined.
Just wait a year - the news cycle turns, and this kid will be forgotten.
In 3-4 years when he applies to college, unless the administrators explicitly look his name up, I doubt they would care.
In 3-4 years when he applies to college, unless the administrators explicitly look his name up, I doubt they would care.
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The only thing the clock this kid made is telling is that we're still in a time where racism and xenophobia is rampant still in America.
The comments on that article are abhorrent. Even if it was pre-planned or not they definitely exposed the real problem we have in America. Not terrorists, but ourselves.
The comments on that article are abhorrent. Even if it was pre-planned or not they definitely exposed the real problem we have in America. Not terrorists, but ourselves.
Funny because in this very discussion
> This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kick out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb.
> The only thing the clock this kid made is telling is that we're still in a time where racism and xenophobia is rampant still in America.
Sure ,but is it about racism ? or is this about the media making stuff up ?
Was he arrested because he was "brown" ? or because he behaved like a moron in class ? I don't have the answers, but let's choose our champions carefully here.
The media often make up their own stories just for the sake of milking them ad nauseam. It wouldn't be the first time.
> This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kick out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb.
> The only thing the clock this kid made is telling is that we're still in a time where racism and xenophobia is rampant still in America.
Sure ,but is it about racism ? or is this about the media making stuff up ?
Was he arrested because he was "brown" ? or because he behaved like a moron in class ? I don't have the answers, but let's choose our champions carefully here.
The media often make up their own stories just for the sake of milking them ad nauseam. It wouldn't be the first time.
I think my point is there is no champion at all in this. Whether his story was true or he deliberately did it. In the end both scenarios playing out we as USA still lose. Only one scenario makes us look less bad but bad is still bad.
One school+police district screws up, the entire nation up to the POTUS and numerous corporations extend their support... and his family then decides to leave the country?? Eh, fuck 'em. Seriously, he has huge opportunities here, both for himself and also as an advocate for other minorities in tech.
This is a pretty bad insult to the USA, no way around that. Very ungrateful.
This is a pretty bad insult to the USA, no way around that. Very ungrateful.
I always assumed Scandinavians were the gullible dhimmis but quite refreshing to see how far Americans are willing to bend their reality distortion field to appease Islamists. The kid is innocent and was used as a pawn. The same can't be said for the impressive list of asshats that tried to capitalize on this as did the boy's jihadi dad and the Muslim Brotherhood - though you know them as CAIR.
While everyone who brought up an ounce of critical thought was instantly dismissed as a "nazi" by the Good Guys™
And you wonder why people are growing increasingly right wing. Stop appeasing Islamists while throwing people like Nawaz and Khan under the buss
While everyone who brought up an ounce of critical thought was instantly dismissed as a "nazi" by the Good Guys™
And you wonder why people are growing increasingly right wing. Stop appeasing Islamists while throwing people like Nawaz and Khan under the buss
Like others, I was at first really pissed off at this saga, but the more I've read, the more I feel like it's a hoax. This whole thing has just been one scam on the media.
So the media were the ones that made the school and police over-react completely? Riiiight.
No, but the media has shaped the narrative to instruct the public as to what the intent was. If a kid brings a fake gun to school, they'd be arrested too (wrong or right)
So.. in your mind bringing a very small disassembled clock in a custom housing is exactly like bringing a fake gun to school.
Ooookay.
Ooookay.
yeah, very small disassembled clock which looks similar to a bomb is same like bringing a fake gun which looks like a gun.
The school and the police didn't over-react. The media simply glossed over what the kid actually did.
Which was nothing illegal, wrong, or even against school rules.
So yes, over-reacting is exactly what they did.
So yes, over-reacting is exactly what they did.
You sound determined to believe this, so best of luck to you!
If you look up his father's history, it's pretty clear that this entire "controversy" was likely manufactured at the kid's expense.
Watching this unfold outside of America was really a masterclass in how racism and discrimination continues to thrive in America.
Which isn't to say It's unique to America, only from my experience a lot of Americans think their country has moved on from those days when in actual fact, racism is alive and kicking.
The fact that you had news reporters and even Dawkins going after him was embarrassing and sad.
When I was 14 I hung out with (Caucasian) kids that lit things on fire in the park.
Which isn't to say It's unique to America, only from my experience a lot of Americans think their country has moved on from those days when in actual fact, racism is alive and kicking.
The fact that you had news reporters and even Dawkins going after him was embarrassing and sad.
When I was 14 I hung out with (Caucasian) kids that lit things on fire in the park.
"Going after him?"
AFAIK, all Dawkins said was that he didn't build a clock. Which he didn't, he took a circa 1980s Radio Shack clock out of its case and mounted it in a pencil box.
Apparently trivially verifiable facts are discriminatory now?
This whole thing stinks. I've seen nothing in either the police reports, the words of the involved people, or any hard, objective facts that indicate that this is a matter of anything other than garden variety school administrative stupidity.
AFAIK, all Dawkins said was that he didn't build a clock. Which he didn't, he took a circa 1980s Radio Shack clock out of its case and mounted it in a pencil box.
Apparently trivially verifiable facts are discriminatory now?
This whole thing stinks. I've seen nothing in either the police reports, the words of the involved people, or any hard, objective facts that indicate that this is a matter of anything other than garden variety school administrative stupidity.
Dawkins was being an ass for the sake of having the last word. Sure, nothing he did was impressive to the internet geniuses who have 10 years of experience and a college degree more than him. And so what? The kid was curious, that kind of initiative shouldn't be stifled. Because anyone who has worked with kids/teenagers in any capacity knows quite well how easy it is to kill that kind of thing in the bud. It takes a seed to grow a tree.
I would absolutely say that Dawkins was in fact "going after him" and being an asshole, even if he probably didn't fully understand why (but that makes the whole situation even sadder, that a scientist so visible to the public would be clueless about how to engage kids about science and engineering).
I would absolutely say that Dawkins was in fact "going after him" and being an asshole, even if he probably didn't fully understand why (but that makes the whole situation even sadder, that a scientist so visible to the public would be clueless about how to engage kids about science and engineering).
What he did is not impressive to literally anyone who has ever used a screwdriver. There is no initiative or creativity that goes into dumping the contents of a digital click into a pencil case. It was attention seeking.
> I would absolutely say that Dawkins was in fact "going after him" and being an asshole, even if he probably didn't fully understand why
Don't forget that Dawkins said that Islamophobia is a 'non-word'[0].
Dawkins was being an asshole, and he definitely knew why. Ignoring Ahmed Mohamed's religion and race and pretending like it's not relevant doesn't change the fact that this entire incident is inextricably linked to the fact that he is Muslim and not white.
[0] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/richard-dawkins-def...
Don't forget that Dawkins said that Islamophobia is a 'non-word'[0].
Dawkins was being an asshole, and he definitely knew why. Ignoring Ahmed Mohamed's religion and race and pretending like it's not relevant doesn't change the fact that this entire incident is inextricably linked to the fact that he is Muslim and not white.
[0] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/richard-dawkins-def...
this entire incident is inextricably linked to the fact that he is Muslim and not white.
Based on what proof?
Based on what proof?
> Ignoring Ahmed Mohamed's religion and race and pretending like it's not relevant doesn't change the fact that this entire incident is inextricably linked to the fact that he is Muslim and not white.
There are various forms of malice and incompetence that can explain the official acts at the basis of the incident, so while there is certainly plenty of reason to think that might be a significant factor, I think its far from clear that it is.
The responses to the incident from various circles certainly provide plenty of evidence of both racism and Islamophobia, but I don't think its fair to say that it is unambiguously the case that the whole incident boils down to that (though I don't think its particularly unlikely.)
There are various forms of malice and incompetence that can explain the official acts at the basis of the incident, so while there is certainly plenty of reason to think that might be a significant factor, I think its far from clear that it is.
The responses to the incident from various circles certainly provide plenty of evidence of both racism and Islamophobia, but I don't think its fair to say that it is unambiguously the case that the whole incident boils down to that (though I don't think its particularly unlikely.)
Well the question is why an internationally recognized biologist with millions of followers though the need to wade into the controversy. Also you're forgetting the tweets where he called the kid a fraud, and insinuated he might have wanted to be arrested for the attention.
I don't get why Dawkins is so against case-modding?
It's a valid design/art form.
It's a valid design/art form.
How does one go from Dawkins said he didn't build a clock to "Dawkins is so against case-modding"?
Because that's what he's criticizing - the fact that he didn't build the electronics, but only made a different case.
>Watching this unfold outside of America was really a masterclass in how racism and discrimination continues to thrive in America.
Kids get suspended for less in schools, now -- racism or not. It's easier (and more likely) to explain these outcomes through hardened, zero-tolerance policies.
>When I was 14 I hung out with (Caucasian) kids that lit things on fire in the park.
And...I'm assuming you didn't get caught because you used discretion and weren't doing things in a controlled setting (e.g. classroom) or putting others at risk.
Kids get suspended for less in schools, now -- racism or not. It's easier (and more likely) to explain these outcomes through hardened, zero-tolerance policies.
>When I was 14 I hung out with (Caucasian) kids that lit things on fire in the park.
And...I'm assuming you didn't get caught because you used discretion and weren't doing things in a controlled setting (e.g. classroom) or putting others at risk.
> It's easier (and more likely) to explain these outcomes through hardened, zero-tolerance policies.
IME, zero-tolerance policies are highly-selectively enforced; they are quite convenient for administrators who want to act arbitrarily, because lack of action is less likely to be challenged if it doesn't lead to someone else getting injured, but any time action is taken (however flimsy the justification) the nest of zero-tolerance policies for (for drugs, including anything that could loosely be interpreted as associated with drug paraphernalia or drug culture; for weapons and violence, including anything that could loosely be interpreted as being suggestive of, related to, a simulation of, etc., a weapon or violent act; etc.) provide a convenient excuse for any response disproportionate to the substance of the act.
Zero-tolerance policies aren't an alternative explanation to administrators acting arbitrarily including based on racial, religious, or other prejudiced animus, they are an enabling mechanism for that arbitrary action.
IME, zero-tolerance policies are highly-selectively enforced; they are quite convenient for administrators who want to act arbitrarily, because lack of action is less likely to be challenged if it doesn't lead to someone else getting injured, but any time action is taken (however flimsy the justification) the nest of zero-tolerance policies for (for drugs, including anything that could loosely be interpreted as associated with drug paraphernalia or drug culture; for weapons and violence, including anything that could loosely be interpreted as being suggestive of, related to, a simulation of, etc., a weapon or violent act; etc.) provide a convenient excuse for any response disproportionate to the substance of the act.
Zero-tolerance policies aren't an alternative explanation to administrators acting arbitrarily including based on racial, religious, or other prejudiced animus, they are an enabling mechanism for that arbitrary action.
Which leaves us back where we started: Given that white kids are subjected to police involvement for unambiguous toy weapons all the time, what evidence is there that this has anything to do with prejudice?
America is so obsessed with race that it boggles the mind any American would think racism is a non-issue.
On the global scale of the shitstorms that unfold - I have a feeling the whole world is burning, racism in the US is a foot note.
What you have right now is the buzzfidization of the internet discourse - identity politics is easy traffic and money, so everyone is doing it.
What you have right now is the buzzfidization of the internet discourse - identity politics is easy traffic and money, so everyone is doing it.
I hate to tell you this but that last bit doesn't have jack to do with race. I did things with fire and explosives when I was that age that would be grounds for prison time in the current oversensitive climate.
I feel like it had more to do with how controlling and oppressive our school system has become than race.
It had very little to do with the school system. If the kid was white it wouldn't have happened.
I was expelled from 7th grade (1996) for just holding a toy gun[1] (a friend brought it to school, but let me play with it, which lasted for about 5 minutes). The superintendent said they had a zero tolerance policy for guns and lookalikes after Columbine. My mother made an embarrassingly huge fuss about how overboard they were going, and ended up getting the expulsion overturned at a sort of appeal "hearing", which resulted in me missing just 3 days of school. It was a really stressful situation. I'm Caucasian.
1. Something like this: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/orange-plastic-water-pistol-i...
1. Something like this: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/orange-plastic-water-pistol-i...
Note: I brought this up to my mom and she pointed out that it was a shooting in Washington, not Columbine, that had the schools paranoid.
White children are arrested for stupid things all the time too. I went to highschool with a kid who got arrested for installing VNC server on a school computer.
Oh for sure. But non-white kids are automatically viewed with greater suspicion/less likely to be believed.
But the fundamental problem is that it shouldn't matter - you can't legislate away bigotry. In fact, attempting to do so just creates resentment which is passed to the next generation.
You can legislate a sane school/legal environment that removes the arbitrary and capricious power from possible bigots, overreactors, and other adult bullies.
You can legislate a sane school/legal environment that removes the arbitrary and capricious power from possible bigots, overreactors, and other adult bullies.
That's what really pissed me off about this charade. It would have been the perfect opportunity to talk about how fucked up our school administrations and their "zero tolerance" policies are, and instead everyone wasted their time rehashing the same old arguments about race that we have every day, that everyone has already made up their minds about.
> It would have been the perfect opportunity to talk about how fucked up our school administrations and their "zero tolerance" policies are, and instead everyone wasted their time rehashing the same old arguments about race that we have every day
Actually, most of the early response from public critics -- and most of the major-actor outreach to counter the official sanction directed at the student -- seemed to focus largely on the lack of sensibility of the administration and it being a failure of authoritarianism stifling harmless youthful experimentation. There was some speculation about the official reaction potentially having racist motivation, but the issue becoming principally about racial and/or religious bigotry really kind of took off as defenders of the actions by the school (or those just wanting to bash Obama because politics) started arguing that the student must have been guilty of doing something wrong, even if it wasn't actually building a bomb, because of his families background.
Actually, most of the early response from public critics -- and most of the major-actor outreach to counter the official sanction directed at the student -- seemed to focus largely on the lack of sensibility of the administration and it being a failure of authoritarianism stifling harmless youthful experimentation. There was some speculation about the official reaction potentially having racist motivation, but the issue becoming principally about racial and/or religious bigotry really kind of took off as defenders of the actions by the school (or those just wanting to bash Obama because politics) started arguing that the student must have been guilty of doing something wrong, even if it wasn't actually building a bomb, because of his families background.
Zero tolerance policies effect everyone. I'm sure if the kid was white he would be treated exactly the same. Now, it depends what kind of white kid, certainly. The captain of the football team? Probably a slap on the wrist. Anyone who wears black more than a day a month? Definitely getting arrested.
According to the district documents, the policies for a "look-alike weapon" are the same as those for a weapon -- see:
http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do...
http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL)....
Zero-tolerance policies do disproportionally damage students of color (like many policies in most countries...) but they're perfectly capable of damaging white students as well, and it's almost certainly false to say that if a nerdy, technophillic white kid brought a strange device to a Texas school, he wouldn't be arrested for possessing a "look-alike" bomb.
According to the district documents, the policies for a "look-alike weapon" are the same as those for a weapon -- see:
http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do...
http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL)....
Zero-tolerance policies do disproportionally damage students of color (like many policies in most countries...) but they're perfectly capable of damaging white students as well, and it's almost certainly false to say that if a nerdy, technophillic white kid brought a strange device to a Texas school, he wouldn't be arrested for possessing a "look-alike" bomb.
That's easy to say, but impossible to know. If the kid matches the right profile with the wrong teacher, there are plenty of scenarios where a white kid gets arrested for this.
America has been deeply suspicious of nerdy white boys since Columbine. That's not to say Muslim kids don't get discriminated against. My brother in law had a hard time in post 9/11 Virgina because he's Afghan.
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This is a depressing consequence of media-fueled racism/discrimination that will further drive the disintegration of the US as a strong competitor in STEM fields on the global stage.
Don't be silly. Qatar won't overtake US. Neither will BRICS or Japan or Nigeria, etc. They lack innovative culture, disrespect for authority, etc. West Europe, the only real competitor, is almost forever bound to US.
For sure. If authorities treat Muslim people with such suspicion in the US, why would any talented Muslim engineers come over?
Doesn't send a positive message to US kids either, does it?
Doesn't send a positive message to US kids either, does it?
I was completely outraged when I first heard this story, but then I read some of the legitimate criticism that the article glosses over. Basically it looks like he didn't build a clock, but repackaged an existing clock into a pencil box and had it go off during class. Here's the take from someone who went the full length with looking up the parts:
http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engin...