Mono 3.2.7 is out(news.mono-project.com)
news.mono-project.com
Mono 3.2.7 is out
http://news.mono-project.com/2014/02/25/mono-3-2-7-is-out/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
115 comments
We have included Mono in our Framework Benchmarks project for some rounds now. However, we have recently set up a new hardware environment and we're not having any luck getting Mono installed on that environment [1]. It's simply not installing correctly for us. We're not Mono experts, so we're probably doing something wrong.
If anyone is interested in lending a hand, we'd appreciate it since we'd like for the Mono tests remain in Round 9. Thanks!
[1] https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/issues/78...
If anyone is interested in lending a hand, we'd appreciate it since we'd like for the Mono tests remain in Round 9. Thanks!
[1] https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/issues/78...
Thanks. It took a little while to find, but if anyone is interested in comparing Mono to the CLR for themselves (and likely do some work to adapt the system to Windows), here's where to start: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex
The measurements scripts provided on the benchmarks game website are written in Python 2.5+ and worked fine on MS Vista using:
- Python 2.5+
- Python Win32 Extensions (for win32 process monitoring)
- GNU Make for Windows
- GNU DiffUtils for Windows
Download bencher.zip from:
https://alioth.debian.org/frs/?group_id=100815&release_id=18...
- Python 2.5+
- Python Win32 Extensions (for win32 process monitoring)
- GNU Make for Windows
- GNU DiffUtils for Windows
Download bencher.zip from:
https://alioth.debian.org/frs/?group_id=100815&release_id=18...
Can someone not just make some code that does the benchmarks, and publish that?
Then some other helpful person can pastebin the actual results.
Then some other helpful person can pastebin the actual results.
I think if you run a recent Mono, with the sgen GC using the LLVM backend and turn off array bounds-checking performance is supposed to be pretty impressive. (I recall Miguel saying within 10-20% of C++).
Having said that, I've had no performance issues running 3.2 on Linux in general.
Having said that, I've had no performance issues running 3.2 on Linux in general.
>>Microsoft's license forbidding<<
I seem to remember that changed; and for a couple of years the benchmarks game did provide measurements for C# F# (.Net and Mono) and Java on MS Vista.
I seem to remember that changed; and for a couple of years the benchmarks game did provide measurements for C# F# (.Net and Mono) and Java on MS Vista.
MVC5 still not working tho. Good thing we have Nancy.
Edit: Seems like many do not know about Nancy, check it out, some even say it's better than MVC. The good side is that it's 100% compatible with Mono because they run tests against it too so you can host your C# websites on Linux.
Github: https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy
Edit: Seems like many do not know about Nancy, check it out, some even say it's better than MVC. The good side is that it's 100% compatible with Mono because they run tests against it too so you can host your C# websites on Linux.
Github: https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy
First time I've heard of Nancy. Anyone got a URL since it's name is so terrible that you can't google it?
I had the same problem. I googled "Mono Nancy" and eventually found this:
https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy
EDIT: It seems to be a .NET clone of node.js
https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy
EDIT: It seems to be a .NET clone of node.js
No, it's a Sinatra-inspired framework for .NET ...and it's quite good!
(Thus the name. Frank Sinatra's daughter is named Nancy Sinatra)
(Thus the name. Frank Sinatra's daughter is named Nancy Sinatra)
no it's not. it's a .NET clone of sinatra. it's a web framework. it has little to nothing to do with node.js. although .net have pretty powerful multiprocessing and async routines, and can therefore be connected to node.js without too much effort.
If you don't mind me asking, I'm stuck trying to get the project templates to work with Monodevelop 4. I'm using this repository to run the latest Mono and Monodevelop on Fedora: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/tpokorra:/mo...
When I open the vsix file, all I get is a hexdump. I also tried installing it as an add-in, but it doesn't appear to accept vsix files.
The goal is to get past step one of these instructions: https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy/wiki/Introduction
How to make this work, pretty please?
When I open the vsix file, all I get is a hexdump. I also tried installing it as an add-in, but it doesn't appear to accept vsix files.
The goal is to get past step one of these instructions: https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy/wiki/Introduction
How to make this work, pretty please?
monodevelop is not really supported. i would try compiling the latest mlnodevelop and see if there is a fork of the nancy templates.
you can work around that issue if you make an empty asp.net project and then use nuget to install-package nancy.hosting.aspnet
at least i think so, i haven't been doing .net in a while
you can work around that issue if you make an empty asp.net project and then use nuget to install-package nancy.hosting.aspnet
at least i think so, i haven't been doing .net in a while
SUCCESS! I followed these:
http://rubygems.org/gems/albacore/versions/1.0.0.rc.1 (for the command to install albacore), and
https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy/wiki/Running-Nancy-on-your-...
This works on Fedora and probably other distributions as well, though this uses HTTP which might be less optimal than FastCGI with Fos. I got Fos to compile with Mono but it's not usable yet, it can't find IAppBuilder in my "console" application no matter what references or using directives I add. Nowin compiles cleanly but the example projects don't, so it'll take some effort to get it to work. Things are progressing, though. But I really can't recommend anyone use Mono for web development as it stands.
http://rubygems.org/gems/albacore/versions/1.0.0.rc.1 (for the command to install albacore), and
https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy/wiki/Running-Nancy-on-your-...
This works on Fedora and probably other distributions as well, though this uses HTTP which might be less optimal than FastCGI with Fos. I got Fos to compile with Mono but it's not usable yet, it can't find IAppBuilder in my "console" application no matter what references or using directives I add. Nowin compiles cleanly but the example projects don't, so it'll take some effort to get it to work. Things are progressing, though. But I really can't recommend anyone use Mono for web development as it stands.
How does it compare to Web API?
ServiceStack [1] is a closer comparison to Web API. A lot easier to set up and runs in Mono, but not free (although it is open source [2]).
[1] - http://servicestack.net [2] - https://github.com/ServiceStack/ServiceStack
[1] - http://servicestack.net [2] - https://github.com/ServiceStack/ServiceStack
Nancy, like Sinatra, is a general-purpose web framework. You could implement an API in it, or you could implement a user-facing website.
Nancy and Sinatra are typically used for smaller sites. They're based around routes, controllers, and views but they don't (for better or worse) lock you into an MVC project structure like ASP.Net MVC or Rails.
Web API, by comparison, is pretty much "just for implementing a web-based API" and not something you'd want to use for a user-facing web application that serves up HTML pages.
Nancy and Sinatra are typically used for smaller sites. They're based around routes, controllers, and views but they don't (for better or worse) lock you into an MVC project structure like ASP.Net MVC or Rails.
Web API, by comparison, is pretty much "just for implementing a web-based API" and not something you'd want to use for a user-facing web application that serves up HTML pages.
.NET clone of node.js would be nice, because I like the idea of node.js but not enough to ditch all my .NET stuff (especially entity framework).
There's nothing in node.js that you can't get with .NET/Mono except for JavaScript, and even if you must run JS for some reason there are some solutions (like IronJS).
Edge.js might interest you. It's an interop library for .Net and node.js: http://tjanczuk.github.io/edge/#/
Entity Framework is really not a good excuse. .NET has lots of great things going for it. Entity Framework is firmly on the "enterprise .NET" list of such items though.
.NET has always been able to do what Node does anyway. It has had HttpListener since v1.0...
.NET has always been able to do what Node does anyway. It has had HttpListener since v1.0...
Think you'll be getting a shock in a couple of years if you think the EF is enterprise. It's changed massively and coding without it is becoming a little like coding javqscript without jQuery.
You can do it, but why bother writing all those crud operations yourself??
Even with complicated SQL you can hand roll it and then tell the EF which class you're.returning and it'll handle all the boring `rs.GetInt(rs.GetOrdinal("ID"))` crap.
You can do it, but why bother writing all those crud operations yourself??
Even with complicated SQL you can hand roll it and then tell the EF which class you're.returning and it'll handle all the boring `rs.GetInt(rs.GetOrdinal("ID"))` crap.
I think that the LINQ integration with EF is nice.. but EF in and of itself isn't all that great imho... Most of what it does is generate types to correspond to your database tables.
When you use a language with real variable types, it's less of an issue... If you really want it, you could shoehorn generators and other db platforms into the hyena[1] package.
In general, I've found that using databases tend to be much more straight forward under node, and that using ORM tools are less necessary.
[1] https://www.npmjs.org/package/hyena
When you use a language with real variable types, it's less of an issue... If you really want it, you could shoehorn generators and other db platforms into the hyena[1] package.
In general, I've found that using databases tend to be much more straight forward under node, and that using ORM tools are less necessary.
[1] https://www.npmjs.org/package/hyena
C# (.NET4+) has real variable types, and a library to use them for database access.
Using Type dynamic - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd264736.aspx
https://github.com/robconery/massive
Using Type dynamic - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd264736.aspx
https://github.com/robconery/massive
When you use dynamic, you lose the biggest advantage of C# in general, intellisense in VS. Don't get me wrong, it can be great to use dynamic at times... I just feel you're losing the advantage that VS/C# give you when you do, so you may as well be using something else. (I like node.js)
I started something along these lines a while ago. Haven't touched in quite some time though.
https://github.com/martydill/node.fs
https://github.com/martydill/node.fs
OWIN will give some of what you are looking for.
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I haven't tried them yet, but here are some directions I found (on /r/dotnet) a few days ago for tweaking MVC5 so it runs correctly on Mono:
http://curtis.schlak.com/2014/02/04/setup-asp-net-mvc-4-on-m...
http://curtis.schlak.com/2014/02/04/setup-asp-net-mvc-4-on-m...
What *nix needs is an OWIN compatible web server.
You can run OWIN apps self-hosted on Mono/*nix. Here's my write-up for doing that on Heroku: http://friism.com/running-owin-katana-apps-on-heroku
I've heard Nowin runs well on Mono (haven't tried it yet myself). https://github.com/Bobris/Nowin
Miguel tweeted this a week ago:
NoWin, Nancy, SignalR & Lego on the raspberry pi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ZQtiupyzE
NoWin, Nancy, SignalR & Lego on the raspberry pi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ZQtiupyzE
From the FAQ: https://github.com/owin/owin/wiki/faq - OWIN is inspired by rack, WSGI and node.js.
I'd say there are plenty of alternatives to OWIN (and the .Net stack) for *nix. That's probably why there's not much interest around Mono, too.
I'd say there are plenty of alternatives to OWIN (and the .Net stack) for *nix. That's probably why there's not much interest around Mono, too.
There is also Fos (FastCgi Owin Server) https://github.com/mzabani/Fos
Neat! It even almost works! http://i.imgur.com/f1HjoNW.png
SO close...
SO close...
Looks like the Owin dependencies didn't come down - does NuGet run under MonoDevelop?
No, can't compile the add-in nor the cli program itself :(
NuGet.exe should run on Mono 3.2.x - http://nuget.org/nuget.exe
It may run but it won't compile. I'm no fan of Gentoo, but if it's open source I ought to be able to reproduce the binary with those sources.
Edit: An open source program must never depend on binaries in the build process where those binaries can't themselves be rebuilt from source. Again, I'm not a zealot but as a developer I see dependencies on arbitrary binaries as damage and try to work around them.
Edit: An open source program must never depend on binaries in the build process where those binaries can't themselves be rebuilt from source. Again, I'm not a zealot but as a developer I see dependencies on arbitrary binaries as damage and try to work around them.
didn't know mvc5 was out. but i can tell you mvc4 with f# was nifty weeeee
(as nifty as mvc can possibly be anyway)
(as nifty as mvc can possibly be anyway)
On [1], what does the underscore mean?
public SampleModule() { Get["/"] = _ => "Hello World!"; }
[1] http://nancyfx.org/
public SampleModule() { Get["/"] = _ => "Hello World!"; }
[1] http://nancyfx.org/
It's the 'Dynamic Dictionary' [0]. It's usually called 'parameters' but it's idiomatic in dotnet to name lambda input parameter '_' if don't use it in your expression.
[0] https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy/wiki/Taking-a-look-at-the-D...
[0] https://github.com/NancyFx/Nancy/wiki/Taking-a-look-at-the-D...
As others have said, it's idiomatic to name a lambda param "_" if you're not using it.
To perhaps clarify a bit, here's what the Hello World example would look like if we added a second route that uses the lambda parameter, and a third route that does something else, and a fourth route that renders a view template.
To perhaps clarify a bit, here's what the Hello World example would look like if we added a second route that uses the lambda parameter, and a third route that does something else, and a fourth route that renders a view template.
public SampleModule() {
Get["/"] = _ => "Hello World!";
Get["/hello/{name}"] = p => ("Hello, " + p.name + "!");
Get["/something-complicated"] = _ => {
// complicated stuff happens here
return "OK... we're all done";
};
// A variety of template engines are supported
Get["/my-resume"] = _ => View["resume.cshtml"];
}Unused parameter for lambda function.
This is the most accurate reply. The expression
Where "a", i.e. "Get["/"]" is an array-like property (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2549tw02.aspx ) and the "b" value assigned to it is an anonymous function with one parameter, i.e.
Get["/"] = _ => "Hello World!";
Where "a", i.e. "Get["/"]" is an array-like property (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2549tw02.aspx ) and the "b" value assigned to it is an anonymous function with one parameter, i.e.
_ => "Hello World!"
It's dynamic path element.
public SampleModule()
{
Get["/{id:int}"] = _ =>
{
int id = _.id;
return "Parameter ID is: " + id.ToString();
};
}Nancy is indeed an excellent framework, I use it for practically every web project at my day job these days.
How does Nancy stack up to ServiceStack?
servicestack is no longer free as far as I can tell,
https://servicestack.net/pricing
Indeed, but for funded projects, their licensing is okay.
I tried Mono a few months ago because I was thinking of writing cross-platform (ish) desktop GUI application.
My dev platform is Ubuntu so I downloaded MonoDevelop and load the GtkSharp example (or maybe it was just the skeleton project template). Hit compile, bunch of errors showed up. Apparently I don't have the GTK libraries. Googled a bit, it looks like I had to download gtk-dev, compile, and do a bunch of things before I can run a "Hello, World" GTK sharp app.
I wade through the net and the tutorials and documentations are either for older versions or just weren't there (for example, integrating with NuGet).
It's a bit sad because I'm sure there are tons of engineering effort went into Mono but it just doesn't feel polished enough.
It's open source but lately I felt that it's more of a teaser for Xamarin than anything else.
My dev platform is Ubuntu so I downloaded MonoDevelop and load the GtkSharp example (or maybe it was just the skeleton project template). Hit compile, bunch of errors showed up. Apparently I don't have the GTK libraries. Googled a bit, it looks like I had to download gtk-dev, compile, and do a bunch of things before I can run a "Hello, World" GTK sharp app.
I wade through the net and the tutorials and documentations are either for older versions or just weren't there (for example, integrating with NuGet).
It's a bit sad because I'm sure there are tons of engineering effort went into Mono but it just doesn't feel polished enough.
It's open source but lately I felt that it's more of a teaser for Xamarin than anything else.
That sounds like the kind of growing pains experienced when you set up any new largish development environment. If we're up and running with ecosystem X, we forget how much work it took to get there, because it was amortized over time. When we start out with a new ecosystem Y, we spend a lot of time in the steep part of the learning curve before reaching Hello World. Java is, IMHO, the worst for this.
Just curious, I've never installed Mono, but my first thought would have been to look for a PPA. Are there none out there? Let someone else figure out the dependencies and configs for you.
Just curious, I've never installed Mono, but my first thought would have been to look for a PPA. Are there none out there? Let someone else figure out the dependencies and configs for you.
An IDE should aim to pass a simple UX test which is: after installing the IDE with no prerequisites and no further configuration (no I don't want to create an env var, specify where I keep my compiler or ...), a hello world program should be possible to run straight away.
Having the libraries and language installed is not the IDE's job. The IDE is a glorified editor with more stuff.
Eclupse and Idea need Java to be installed for example. And I'd guess VS needs .NET to be installed.
Eclupse and Idea need Java to be installed for example. And I'd guess VS needs .NET to be installed.
> The IDE is a glorified editor with more stuff.
If only more people thought like this then I wouldn't be looked at funny when calling my Emacs an IDE. Instead I have some 90% of PyCharm functionality (+ Org Mode), but I constantly hear that it doesn't count because "I had to configure all these plugins" and so on...
And last time I checked VS installed everything it needed to run by itself - it didn't even ask if I want it IIRC. Dunno about Eclipse.
If only more people thought like this then I wouldn't be looked at funny when calling my Emacs an IDE. Instead I have some 90% of PyCharm functionality (+ Org Mode), but I constantly hear that it doesn't count because "I had to configure all these plugins" and so on...
And last time I checked VS installed everything it needed to run by itself - it didn't even ask if I want it IIRC. Dunno about Eclipse.
Eclipse and IntelliJ don't come with the compiler, probably due to licensing.
Also keep in mind that VS only works in Windows, not as cross platform as these two. Installing for Single-Family-OS (Windows...) vs different OSes => different complexity.
Also keep in mind that VS only works in Windows, not as cross platform as these two. Installing for Single-Family-OS (Windows...) vs different OSes => different complexity.
Which is why I think that IDE makers that don't make their language are at a disadvantage (that they should try to work around), and language makers that don't provide an IDE don't take full advantage of their situation. A language/platform without a good dev experience is just not complete. The dev experience is a huge part of what a lang/platform does, and should influence design decisions at every level, i.e. "do we have all the debugging/hot-deploy/profiling entry points in place", or "could this grammar be better for providing autocomplete in invalid synax"?
As for java IDE's: it can't be rocket science to detect & use existing java installations in a good way, or even download & install them in the background (even with licensing issues).
As for java IDE's: it can't be rocket science to detect & use existing java installations in a good way, or even download & install them in the background (even with licensing issues).
> what's the recent version of Java that should be installed?
The latest one? The most common one? The one the IDE requires?
Surely you don't want to use an older one? Even if you deploy to an older target, if you can't do that from a newer one something is wrong. Worse case the IDE could just ask during installation.
If the IDE setup isn't made by monkeys, suerely it wouldn't rely on a hard-coded download url. They would serve it themselves or ask a web service on their end for the URL to the java installer. Sorry if I sound like a grumpy old man, but it's exactly this sort of thinkning that makes OSS platforms and IDE's so clumsy to work with.
The error is usually the idea of "this tool just tries to do X and doesn't care about Y", or sometimes phrased as "the tool does one thing, and does it well". While that is a noble idea, it should never be used as an excuse for a crappy UX.
The latest one? The most common one? The one the IDE requires?
Surely you don't want to use an older one? Even if you deploy to an older target, if you can't do that from a newer one something is wrong. Worse case the IDE could just ask during installation.
If the IDE setup isn't made by monkeys, suerely it wouldn't rely on a hard-coded download url. They would serve it themselves or ask a web service on their end for the URL to the java installer. Sorry if I sound like a grumpy old man, but it's exactly this sort of thinkning that makes OSS platforms and IDE's so clumsy to work with.
The error is usually the idea of "this tool just tries to do X and doesn't care about Y", or sometimes phrased as "the tool does one thing, and does it well". While that is a noble idea, it should never be used as an excuse for a crappy UX.
I believe Eclipse and IntelliJ do detect & use existing (default) Java installations, just can't download&install them in the background (plus there might be complication in doing so: what's the recent version of Java that should be installed? can we guaranteed Oracle won't break the URL, etc etc).
See how Linux+BSD users install Oracle Java....
See how Linux+BSD users install Oracle Java....
It's not a text editor, it's the whole experience. I never even want to worry about where libraries are or where the compiler executables are. I just want to edit and run code. If the compiler comes with libraries, debugger and editor, or if the IDE comes with libraries and compiler doesn't matter. I want the matlab experience, not the gcc experience.
Example: A java IDE that can't set up java automatically for me (OR detect/configure an existing install without my intervention) is disappointing.
Example: A java IDE that can't set up java automatically for me (OR detect/configure an existing install without my intervention) is disappointing.
>Example: A java IDE that can't set up java automatically for me (OR detect/configure an existing install without my intervention) is disappointing.
Well, it might be disappointing, but that describes all of them. Idea and Eclipse don't automatically install Java.
So it's hardly unique to MonoDevelop.
Well, it might be disappointing, but that describes all of them. Idea and Eclipse don't automatically install Java.
So it's hardly unique to MonoDevelop.
While it is disappointing if it doesn't have a single setup experience, they should at least try to locate & use an existing install without the user having to specify a path on disk or an env-var for example. Two installs but no gluing is at least acceptable.
Looks like maybe this one - latest Monodevelop PPA, last built 13 hours ago: https://launchpad.net/~keks9n/+archive/monodevelop-latest
Ubuntu and friends are really, really bad at packaging Mono, and have been for a long time. Mono development on Arch Linux is delightful.
I suggest trying to compile it all yourself instead of going for packages on Debian-derived systems.
I suggest trying to compile it all yourself instead of going for packages on Debian-derived systems.
Fedora isn't much better, Monodevelop is stuck at 2.8.8.4 even. Luckily there's an OpenSUSE repository mentioned elsewhere in this discussion which has CentOS/Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu in it as well.
What did ArchLinux do differently that it won't require me to install the necessary GtkSharp libraries?
You'll still have to install them, but it won't be a pain in the ass. The default mono package assumes you want everything, you want the latest version, and you don't want to spend an hour finding packages.
>My dev platform is Ubuntu so I downloaded MonoDevelop and load the GtkSharp example (or maybe it was just the skeleton project template). Hit compile, bunch of errors showed up. Apparently I don't have the GTK libraries. Googled a bit, it looks like I had to download gtk-dev, compile, and do a bunch of things before I can run a "Hello, World" GTK sharp app.
Well, that's how it works on Linux. What else did you expect? That they'd bundle all the Gtk stuff statically?
Well, that's how it works on Linux. What else did you expect? That they'd bundle all the Gtk stuff statically?
Maybe the problem is the packaging and the dependency management.
Maybe the problem is GtkSharp that relies on native GTK, I don't know...
But in Java, I see that they somehow can get SWING to work (and render as GTK..?) without me downloading 3rd-party dependencies.
Maybe the problem is GtkSharp that relies on native GTK, I don't know...
But in Java, I see that they somehow can get SWING to work (and render as GTK..?) without me downloading 3rd-party dependencies.
I am still so frustrated that Mono got lambasted for being a M$ trap. It was the biggest FUD I have ever read. Hope to see mono return to use in Linux community again.
Why?
The nix world never suffered from lack of decent languages, compilers, development tools, ecosystems and runtimes. The only benefit Mono gives nix users is to write software that's easy to run on Windows and that barely registers on most priority lists. It's been, IIRC, 6 years since I last wrote a "real" desktop app. I did it in C#, but Mono couldn't run it because it relied on Windows-only GUI components. Happily, it was never intended to be deployed on non-Windows environments and everyone was happy.
If I needed to write a desktop application (that's so 90's) that runs identically on both Windows and Linux, I'll just write it in Java.
The nix world never suffered from lack of decent languages, compilers, development tools, ecosystems and runtimes. The only benefit Mono gives nix users is to write software that's easy to run on Windows and that barely registers on most priority lists. It's been, IIRC, 6 years since I last wrote a "real" desktop app. I did it in C#, but Mono couldn't run it because it relied on Windows-only GUI components. Happily, it was never intended to be deployed on non-Windows environments and everyone was happy.
If I needed to write a desktop application (that's so 90's) that runs identically on both Windows and Linux, I'll just write it in Java.
Haven't you heard it? The mobile is the new desktop.
I wonder how much of the mobile market cross-platform toolkits have. I've used Titanium, but only for exceedingly simple apps. Anything else is done with the native tools. I know there are apps that require complex device-side logic but, most of the time (at least for me), almost all of the logic runs on a server and all that's left is user interface management.
>The nix world never suffered from lack of decent languages, compilers, development tools, ecosystems and runtimes.
Well, it sort of did. Gnome, for one, could have used a much better language to facilitate faster development and modularity.
The GObject stuff is archaic, and I was there for the Bonobo fiasco too.
Well, it sort of did. Gnome, for one, could have used a much better language to facilitate faster development and modularity.
The GObject stuff is archaic, and I was there for the Bonobo fiasco too.
Okay so we lost:
Banshee (Media Player)
Shotwell (Photo Manager)
the programs were coming out quickly and looking great then FUD.
the programs were coming out quickly and looking great then FUD.
Agreed, it was disappointing. There were some trust issues surrounding Mono but also an excessive amount of hyperbole.
A real shame, as Mono is great technology with good GTK bindings and integrated well with the GNOME system. I think having Mono as a first-class GNOME environment would have been interesting.
I've spent the past week using Monodevelop and F# to develop compiler tools under Fedora and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Not to mention F# is well supported within IDE, almost equal to VS.
A real shame, as Mono is great technology with good GTK bindings and integrated well with the GNOME system. I think having Mono as a first-class GNOME environment would have been interesting.
I've spent the past week using Monodevelop and F# to develop compiler tools under Fedora and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Not to mention F# is well supported within IDE, almost equal to VS.
Roslyn and the MS/Xamarin partnership suggest Mono will be benefiting in some big ways in the coming year.
I'm a lot less optimist, I think it will just focus Mono development on the mobile platforms (Xamarin on Android/iOS) but will do nothing good for desktop or server use.
How is that a reasonable conclusion? Microsoft has a new CEO. It's an unpredictable situation where anything could happen. Betting your business on perceived, not even openly stated, marketing suggestions at this time seems overly risky.
So baking in Xamarin as a compile target in Visual Studio. Conciously changing their licensing terms of various BCL NuGet packages to allow their unrestricted use on Xamarin/Mono platforms... yeah, there's clearly no hints at all as to what they're up to.
Read between the lines man.
Read between the lines man.
STILL no Ubuntu packages. The official repos are back in 2.x.x land.
You can use this PPA to get updated packages for Ubuntu/Debian:
https://launchpad.net/~directhex/+archive/monoxide
https://launchpad.net/~directhex/+archive/monoxide
Well compiling it from sources is not THAT hard.
git clone git://github.com/mono/mono.git
cd mono
./autogen.sh
make
sudo make installThe idea of package management is more than "easy to install once". It's also "easy to keep up to date". For example, apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and I just updated my packaged mono vs having to go find that there was a tagged update, then rebuild, etc.
That might be, but how do you then make a source-package of your program that compiles and installs successfully on the target distributions that don't have an up-to-date mono toolchain? Because while a developer might follow upstream, users shouldn't have to...
It's actually quite a bit worse than that. For instance, I successfully built and installed mono locally now, but am unable to run simple gtk-applications.
git clone git://github.com/mono/mono.git mono.git
cd mono.git
./autogen.sh --prefix=${HOME}/opt
make get-monolite-latest # Need mono to compile mono
make EXTERNAL_MCS="${PWD}/mcs/class/lib/monolite/gmcs.exe"
make install
export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=${HOME}/opt
cat <<eof > hello.cs
using System;
public class HelloWorld {
static public void Main () { Console.WriteLine ("Hello Mono World!"); } }
eof
mcs hello.cs
mono hello.exe
> Hello Mono World!
cat<<eof > hello-gtk.cs
using Gtk; using System;
class HelloWorld {
static void Main () {
Application.Init();
Window w = new Window("Hello Mono World!");
w.Show();
Application.Run(); }}
eof
mcs hello-gtk.cs -pkg:gtk-sharp-2.0
mono hello-gtk.exe
> Unhandled Exception:
System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or
assembly 'gtk-sharp, (...)These 3rd party ones are pretty good and recent: http://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=home:t...
It's coming in 14.04. Mark your calendar for April 17th.
Great work! Now if Unity would just update their runtime....
That situation is now verging on the comical. Is it really so hard to cut a new deal with Xamarin? Even if they can only offer the new Mono version for paid users in Unity Pro, they need to do something.
If Unity go another major version still using Mono 2.6, they seriously risk losing ground among developers making CPU/memory-intensive games. Or even those concerned about optimizing for mobile platforms.
If Unity go another major version still using Mono 2.6, they seriously risk losing ground among developers making CPU/memory-intensive games. Or even those concerned about optimizing for mobile platforms.
"If Unity go another major version still using Mono 2.6, they seriously risk losing ground among developers making CPU/memory-intensive games. Or even those concerned about optimizing for mobile platforms." - that would be great! I feel they desperately need some competition.
The AOT improvements would be really helpfull on mobile.
I recall reading somewhere that Unity wasn't going to upgrade its Mono framework until Mono 4.0. I can't find the link, so I'm hoping it was just a rumor.
There is already a 3.2.8 out, it seems.
http://www.castlesoft.com.au/new-in-mono-328
http://www.castlesoft.com.au/new-in-mono-328
When you compile from source it tells you it's 4.0.0
Is that Mono 4.0.0 or .NET 4.0?
Mono. I think it's a bug or something.
Mono JIT compiler version 4.0.0 (master/c198a39 Pk feb 21 22:02:35 EET 2014)
Copyright (C) 2002-2014 Novell, Inc, Xamarin Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com
TLS: __thread
SIGSEGV: altstack
Notifications: epoll
Architecture: x86
Disabled: none
Misc: softdebug
LLVM: supported, not enabled.
GC: sgenI JUST (today) build from source on github and got this:
mono -V
Mono JIT compiler version 3.4.0 (master/8f2d3ea Wed Feb 26 11:59:41 EST 2014)
Copyright (C) 2002-2014 Novell, Inc, Xamarin Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com
TLS: __thread
SIGSEGV: altstack
Notifications: epoll
Architecture: amd64
Disabled: none
Misc: softdebug
LLVM: supported, not enabled.
GC: sgen"Performance under some benchmarks was improved by more than 20%."
How is Mono's JIT performance compared to Microsoft's? Are they nearing parity?
How is Mono's JIT performance compared to Microsoft's? Are they nearing parity?
There doesn't seem to be many reliable benchmarks available. I'm not sure why. Here is an in depth benchmark showing Mono lagging very heavily behind Microsoft, but I have no idea if the gap has widened or shrunk since then.
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/212856/Head-to-head-benc...
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/212856/Head-to-head-benc...
That article is 2.5 years old; Mono has gotten significantly better since Xamarin spun off from Novell, and much progress has been made in the last 18 months or so. It would be interesting to re-run those benchmarks with the latest version of Mono though.
AFAIK Microsoft's .NET runtime has also made significant improvements in the last 2.5 years, so as I said, it's just a thumb-suck as to whether the gap has changed. Maybe this will get someone interested in doing some comprehensive benchmarking...
https://github.com/fsharp/fsharp/issues/162#issuecomment-280...
I did a few benchmarks here.
In recent experiences, .NET runtime is faster in most situations, but sometimes Mono can be faster than .NET. It all depends on what you are doing. In extreme cases, .NET is usually ahead. You also have to account for the JIT time. It's after the JIT that should matter.
I did a few benchmarks here.
In recent experiences, .NET runtime is faster in most situations, but sometimes Mono can be faster than .NET. It all depends on what you are doing. In extreme cases, .NET is usually ahead. You also have to account for the JIT time. It's after the JIT that should matter.
What are some big poster-child success stories for running MVC on Mono in production?
Rdio is probably one of the bigger success stories for Xamarin/Mono
You can see a list here: https://xamarin.com/apps
rdio is using the xamarin tools for ios and android.
mvc + mono website on linux success story - i haven't seen one.
mvc + mono website on linux success story - i haven't seen one.
I'm trying to do that for a small community site but I find the documentation a bit lacking. I know I have to create a directory somewhere and write a web.config in XML but I'm still figuring out the rest. I may end up copying someones Github project and tearing it apart to see how things work in practice, or perhaps my RTFM skills are somewhat lacking lately. But if you'd ask me I'd say the widespread presumption all developers are running Visual Studio.NET with Nuget is part of why you haven't seen those success stories.
On the bright side, I've heard good things coming out of ServiceStack. Apparently it shines in the backend web service department and works well with Mono. It's based on ASP.NET and since the requirements for my little project are fairly minimal, I think it's a bit overkill there. But it's still worth checking out for more demanding projects, IMHO.
On the bright side, I've heard good things coming out of ServiceStack. Apparently it shines in the backend web service department and works well with Mono. It's based on ASP.NET and since the requirements for my little project are fairly minimal, I think it's a bit overkill there. But it's still worth checking out for more demanding projects, IMHO.
I've created a Mono buildpack for Heroku that runs MVC amongst many other things: https://github.com/friism/heroku-buildpack-mono
Fortunately, we have the Benchmarks Game and that shows Mono performing well [on synthetic benchmarks...] when compared to a variety of languages.
vs Java: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?t...
vs Go: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?t...
vs Python: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?t...