How Seinfeld's Productivity Secret Fixed My Procrastination Problem(lifehacker.com)
lifehacker.com
How Seinfeld's Productivity Secret Fixed My Procrastination Problem
http://lifehacker.com/5886128/how-seinfelds-productivity-secret-fixed-my-procrastination-problem
89 comments
I know it may elicit eye rolls, but I love using Github's built in "streak" feature for this exact thing. Best of all, it is public and motivating. I agree that it is hard to do something highly valuable on a green field project everyday, so I often work through exercises from textbooks (right now I am in the middle of SICP) to fill in days when I would otherwise just be directionless. I used to feel guilty for not "doing enough" to advance my career, and would "binge code" whenever the guilt built up too much, but now I feel so much more confident and relaxed, knowing I'm putting in a sustainable amount of high quality reading and practicing every day.
But how can we use that streak feature to do some non-programming things like exercising, flossing the tooth etc? I think it fits for our side projects a lot but nothing more than that.
There is an app in App store called 'Commit' (Nathan Barry's) which does that.
There is an app in App store called 'Commit' (Nathan Barry's) which does that.
I built a web app to do something like this for myself. Now slowly rolling it out to users other than myself.
https://jots.me
It's not as visual as the Seinfeld calendar but it works great for what I use it for. I use it to record what I've done for work, my side projects, exercise logs, etc. I even use it to roughly track expenses.
It keeps me motivated to keep adding entries for my projects, so I guess that helps with procrastination. At the least it gets me to do something daily so it can be recorded.
https://jots.me
It's not as visual as the Seinfeld calendar but it works great for what I use it for. I use it to record what I've done for work, my side projects, exercise logs, etc. I even use it to roughly track expenses.
It keeps me motivated to keep adding entries for my projects, so I guess that helps with procrastination. At the least it gets me to do something daily so it can be recorded.
I use an app called Lift (https://lift.do/). It allows you check in to habits you want to form, it notifies you if you're on a streak, and you can look at historical graphs for your weekly and monthly rates. Makes it really easy for me to see if I'm falling off (or doing well) in exercise, my side projects, etc. (I'm not affiliated with Lift)
Sure, I never meant to say it works for other things outside programming. I was just pointing out a tool I have used that I felt might help out someone who was just interested in programming (this being a largely tech-centered site) and not exercising or cleaning. I also use it for writing, since my blog is backed up on github. If it doesn't meet your needs, no problem, Commit sounds great too.
based on the old "calendar about nothing" site that eventually became Github's streak feature. I built http://nothingcalendar.com/ to track working on one of my goals every day. Haven't worked on it for years, but still works well for tracking simple streaks.
It's not stupid at all. I've been using three language learning apps and they all have streak features. That feature is helping me maintain a level of commitment far greater than I ever would have done if I said "well I'll just study big next time".
I really like the Seinfeld method. It works surprisingly well for me.
I first came across it when I started using 750words.com, a journaling website. The website prominently displays your streak at the top of every page, and there are achievements and rewards for building up longer and longer streaks. At the moment my streak is at 572 days, which is testament to the effectiveness of the method.
Unfortunately, the Seinfeld method, in my experience, isn’t perfect.
For me, it’s only really good for small activities that can be done daily for small amounts of time. I’ve tried using it for work projects on several occasions (for example, doing 2 hours of extra work a day) and I’ve failed every time.
I recently came across a fix, though - http://beeminder.com
Beeminder is essentially a more configurable version of the Seinfeld method. I first tested it on a goal that I’ve tried (and failed) to do several times before - ‘read and make notes on business books for one hour a day, six days a week’. Not that hard, but for some reason, I’ve always fallen off the wagon with this particular goal.
With Beeminder, I found it effortless. There’s something strangely satisfying about adding data onto the website. I ended up completing 30 days without much difficulty.
Since then, I’ve added a ton of extra goals with Beeminder, and I’ve been accomplishing them surprisingly easily. I’ve been gradually ratcheting up the difficulty on each goal (for example: I recently started with the goal of ‘spend 3 hours working on own projects every week’, and I slowly increased the goal requirements at a rate of 3 hours extra per week; currently, I’m doing an extra 24 hours a week without much difficulty on my part), which I find works really well.
I’ve also started using Beeminder for other goals like ‘meditate for 5 minutes every morning’, ‘go to the gym 3 times a week’, ‘cook at least 5 new recipes every week’, 'spend 30 minutes cleaning the apartment 3 times a week', and it’s worked incredibly well for each of them.
Beeminder has inspired a massive change in me in a surprisingly short amount of time. I’ve always thought I had a procrastination problem, or that I’m simply lazy, but Beeminder is showing me that this isn’t the case. I recommend giving it a go.
I first came across it when I started using 750words.com, a journaling website. The website prominently displays your streak at the top of every page, and there are achievements and rewards for building up longer and longer streaks. At the moment my streak is at 572 days, which is testament to the effectiveness of the method.
Unfortunately, the Seinfeld method, in my experience, isn’t perfect.
For me, it’s only really good for small activities that can be done daily for small amounts of time. I’ve tried using it for work projects on several occasions (for example, doing 2 hours of extra work a day) and I’ve failed every time.
I recently came across a fix, though - http://beeminder.com
Beeminder is essentially a more configurable version of the Seinfeld method. I first tested it on a goal that I’ve tried (and failed) to do several times before - ‘read and make notes on business books for one hour a day, six days a week’. Not that hard, but for some reason, I’ve always fallen off the wagon with this particular goal.
With Beeminder, I found it effortless. There’s something strangely satisfying about adding data onto the website. I ended up completing 30 days without much difficulty.
Since then, I’ve added a ton of extra goals with Beeminder, and I’ve been accomplishing them surprisingly easily. I’ve been gradually ratcheting up the difficulty on each goal (for example: I recently started with the goal of ‘spend 3 hours working on own projects every week’, and I slowly increased the goal requirements at a rate of 3 hours extra per week; currently, I’m doing an extra 24 hours a week without much difficulty on my part), which I find works really well.
I’ve also started using Beeminder for other goals like ‘meditate for 5 minutes every morning’, ‘go to the gym 3 times a week’, ‘cook at least 5 new recipes every week’, 'spend 30 minutes cleaning the apartment 3 times a week', and it’s worked incredibly well for each of them.
Beeminder has inspired a massive change in me in a surprisingly short amount of time. I’ve always thought I had a procrastination problem, or that I’m simply lazy, but Beeminder is showing me that this isn’t the case. I recommend giving it a go.
Thank you so much for the kind words about Beeminder! (I'm a cofounder.) We do indeed view it as a more flexible version of the Seinfeld hack.
I agree that the Seinfeld hack (aka, "don't break the chain") can be incredibly powerful -- but only once you have a long chain to not break. So there's a catch-22 until then -- you can sometimes keep failing again and again indefinitely, never building up the motivating chain. And that problem repeats every time the chain breaks. So you're always in a precarious situation where one bad day can precipitate many more bad days, where you go down a slippery slope of "one more day won't hurt; I'll get a new chain started tomorrow".
(Extreme bias warning) With Beeminder you can commit to maintaining a certain average, like 3 posts/commits/pages/whatever per week. So it's not all-or-nothing like the Seinfeld hack. You can build up a safety buffer and then take some time off, without the danger that that will lead you down a slippery slope of sloth. With Beeminder's yellow brick road you've precommitted to not let your overall average dip too far.
If the rate you want to maintain is exactly 7 per week -- 6.9 is unacceptable -- and if you can sustain that long term, then "don't break the chain" is probably perfect. For everything else, there's Beeminder!
I agree that the Seinfeld hack (aka, "don't break the chain") can be incredibly powerful -- but only once you have a long chain to not break. So there's a catch-22 until then -- you can sometimes keep failing again and again indefinitely, never building up the motivating chain. And that problem repeats every time the chain breaks. So you're always in a precarious situation where one bad day can precipitate many more bad days, where you go down a slippery slope of "one more day won't hurt; I'll get a new chain started tomorrow".
(Extreme bias warning) With Beeminder you can commit to maintaining a certain average, like 3 posts/commits/pages/whatever per week. So it's not all-or-nothing like the Seinfeld hack. You can build up a safety buffer and then take some time off, without the danger that that will lead you down a slippery slope of sloth. With Beeminder's yellow brick road you've precommitted to not let your overall average dip too far.
If the rate you want to maintain is exactly 7 per week -- 6.9 is unacceptable -- and if you can sustain that long term, then "don't break the chain" is probably perfect. For everything else, there's Beeminder!
Oh, thank you, sir! Didn't expect to get a reply from the cofounder of Beeminder.
I don't think it's possible for to fully explain how big of a difference Beeminder has made in my life. I was much like some of the folks in this thread (as in, starting projects but not finishing them; struggling to get stuff done), but since implementing Beeminder in my life, my productivity has gone through the roof. It's also given me a lot of self confidence in my abilities, which is pushing me to take on more ambitious projects and ambitious tasks.
The focus on averages is definitely what I like most about Beeminder.
On more than one occasion, I've fallen asleep without writing my daily 750 words, only to wake up 20 minutes later in a cold sweat, rushing to my laptop so that I can quickly write my words so I can get back to bed.
With Beeminder, that's not a problem. I usually have reserves built up, or, alternatively, I can simply put in some extra time the next day.
Case in point, last Friday, I went to the doctors for a routine asthma checkup and they gave me a flu shot that completely knocked me out. It effectively ruined my plans for the day. Instead of worrying, I went home, rested, and put in some extra time on Saturday instead. It's simply not possible to do this with the Seinfeld method.
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that I heard about Beeminder through Nick Winter's book 'The Motivation Hacker'. http://www.amazon.com/The-Motivation-Hacker-Nick-Winter-eboo...
It's cheap, it's a quick read, and it's got some great information inside. I made some notes while I was reading the book - I've uploaded them here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f6xofet38ka1x2/Nick%20Winter%20-%...
If anyone's on the fence about buying it, it's definitely worth picking up, in my opinion. There's a lot of great stuff in there that I didn't cover in the notes.
Cheers again, man.
I don't think it's possible for to fully explain how big of a difference Beeminder has made in my life. I was much like some of the folks in this thread (as in, starting projects but not finishing them; struggling to get stuff done), but since implementing Beeminder in my life, my productivity has gone through the roof. It's also given me a lot of self confidence in my abilities, which is pushing me to take on more ambitious projects and ambitious tasks.
The focus on averages is definitely what I like most about Beeminder.
On more than one occasion, I've fallen asleep without writing my daily 750 words, only to wake up 20 minutes later in a cold sweat, rushing to my laptop so that I can quickly write my words so I can get back to bed.
With Beeminder, that's not a problem. I usually have reserves built up, or, alternatively, I can simply put in some extra time the next day.
Case in point, last Friday, I went to the doctors for a routine asthma checkup and they gave me a flu shot that completely knocked me out. It effectively ruined my plans for the day. Instead of worrying, I went home, rested, and put in some extra time on Saturday instead. It's simply not possible to do this with the Seinfeld method.
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that I heard about Beeminder through Nick Winter's book 'The Motivation Hacker'. http://www.amazon.com/The-Motivation-Hacker-Nick-Winter-eboo...
It's cheap, it's a quick read, and it's got some great information inside. I made some notes while I was reading the book - I've uploaded them here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f6xofet38ka1x2/Nick%20Winter%20-%...
If anyone's on the fence about buying it, it's definitely worth picking up, in my opinion. There's a lot of great stuff in there that I didn't cover in the notes.
Cheers again, man.
Wow, your notes on Nick Winter's book are amazing! I should note (for others) that the book is also fun and fascinating to read even aside from the technical content and concrete advice which you've expertly distilled.
I'm fascinated that you can get so much value out of Beeminder without the commitment device aspect! For us personally that's really key. Maybe for you the commitment device is that if you derail you'll be forced to put in a credit card. :)
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this if you want to move this to an email discussion. Ooh, or check out the Akratics Anonymous google group. You'll probably love that.
I'm fascinated that you can get so much value out of Beeminder without the commitment device aspect! For us personally that's really key. Maybe for you the commitment device is that if you derail you'll be forced to put in a credit card. :)
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this if you want to move this to an email discussion. Ooh, or check out the Akratics Anonymous google group. You'll probably love that.
WOH-HO Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope. That is just a flat out recipe for massive credit card charges and a boat load of pain.
They have a monetary incentive to interpret your data as failing to meet your goals. That is a huuuuuuuge amount of trust to bestow on a random company.
They have a monetary incentive to interpret your data as failing to meet your goals. That is a huuuuuuuge amount of trust to bestow on a random company.
It's really important for us to understand this reaction, so I'm glad you expressed it! It does seem super perverse on first blush. We've written about this a lot, actually. Eg, http://blog.beeminder.com/perverse .
Another counterargument is that any company has a monetary incentive to take your money and then under deliver on what you paid for. Beeminder, like most companies, is staking its reputation on providing some value that you'll be happy to pay for and tell others about (like the grandparent post here; thank you again!) and keep using. In Beeminder's case that value is making you more productive (or more fit or weigh less, or whatever graphable goal you have).
Eager to hear if that's convincing!
Another counterargument is that any company has a monetary incentive to take your money and then under deliver on what you paid for. Beeminder, like most companies, is staking its reputation on providing some value that you'll be happy to pay for and tell others about (like the grandparent post here; thank you again!) and keep using. In Beeminder's case that value is making you more productive (or more fit or weigh less, or whatever graphable goal you have).
Eager to hear if that's convincing!
I'm glad you guys actually recognize the perverse incentives at work here and...
This is a nasty psychological game beeminder is playing. So is GymPact. When people feel they have failed or they are at fault, a part of them wants to provide recompense for that failure. Beeminder and GymPact are not the first to fit this business model. Cable companies do it with wildly obtuse rules, ugly restriction, and massive overcharge fees, all with the line "Well it was your fault, it's written in the rules right here!"
That's what I see to be the problem. Beeminder puts itself resolutely in place as the 'go to' to seek punishment, striking where humans are at their weakest. Of course, rather than hail Marys, the punishment is money.
The fact is, because beeminder makes its money through my failure, it has a monetary insensitive to bring about that failure by any means, real or perceived. http://darkpatterns.org/ exists for exactly this reason! On what grounds do I have to believe beeminder would be immune to such an influence? Because beeminder loves me and wants me to get better?
That is how I saw it, from the outside looking in. I liked the idea, I really did, but with beeminder standing to benefit from the pledge, rather than say, a charity of some kind, I could never trust them.
"Speaking of perverse incentives, we’re often asked about
our own. It seems that from the perspective of those
paying us, Beeminder is providing a ton of value and a
ton of motivation and the occasional cost of derailment
is a fair fee for Beeminder’s service..."
"in other words, Beeminder is putting itself on the map
for exactly one reason: it makes people more awesome.
But that can lead to the opposite complaint — that
Beeminder’s sting is so valuable as to be
self-defeating. In other words, it’s hard to be
motivated by the threat of having to pay Beeminder if
you feel that Beeminder has already earned that money!"
This is a nasty psychological game beeminder is playing. So is GymPact. When people feel they have failed or they are at fault, a part of them wants to provide recompense for that failure. Beeminder and GymPact are not the first to fit this business model. Cable companies do it with wildly obtuse rules, ugly restriction, and massive overcharge fees, all with the line "Well it was your fault, it's written in the rules right here!"
That's what I see to be the problem. Beeminder puts itself resolutely in place as the 'go to' to seek punishment, striking where humans are at their weakest. Of course, rather than hail Marys, the punishment is money.
The fact is, because beeminder makes its money through my failure, it has a monetary insensitive to bring about that failure by any means, real or perceived. http://darkpatterns.org/ exists for exactly this reason! On what grounds do I have to believe beeminder would be immune to such an influence? Because beeminder loves me and wants me to get better?
That is how I saw it, from the outside looking in. I liked the idea, I really did, but with beeminder standing to benefit from the pledge, rather than say, a charity of some kind, I could never trust them.
If they do misinterpret my data, I'll simply go elsewhere. If there isn't an alternative, I'll try to build my own.
I haven't had to input my credit card details into Beeminder yet, so I don't see how they'd be able to take money from me, anyway. I don't use the pledge feature, and I've yet to fail any of my goals, so I've not had any problems on that front.
I haven't had to input my credit card details into Beeminder yet, so I don't see how they'd be able to take money from me, anyway. I don't use the pledge feature, and I've yet to fail any of my goals, so I've not had any problems on that front.
it's optional? I can't believe the video said you needed a pledge to get back on track! It shattered my confidence in them.
The way we think of it is that Beeminder is a goal tracking service that you pay for, except that if you never need Beeminder's kick in the pants -- if you keep all your datapoints on the yellow brick road -- then the fee is waived.
...
So... not optional.
I find the way some people are thinking in this discussion to be very off putting.
It's like you're saying the demographic of people constituting your primary source of income are exceptions. That I can think of it is a completely free service since I am incapable of failure. How insane is that?!
So... not optional.
I find the way some people are thinking in this discussion to be very off putting.
It's like you're saying the demographic of people constituting your primary source of income are exceptions. That I can think of it is a completely free service since I am incapable of failure. How insane is that?!
I'm confused but I think I mean it the other way around: most users will pay Beeminder occasionally. There are some exceptional people who never ever fail who will never pay Beeminder (and those people apparently didn't really need Beeminder's kick in the pants anyway).
Pledging is optional - I used beeminder for a long time without entering my credit card details, for exactly this reason.
their introduction stated that if you slipped, you would have to pay to get back on schedule, and not on your terms either.
you would have to pony up a credit card number on the grounds that they could charge you if you slipped again. Basically if anything happened, $5, $10, $30
Oh no, my father was killed in south Africa, gotta go! $5, $10, $30, $90, $270, $810, $2430, Oh you were busy? Oh sorry.
If the video was wrong. Well OK. That seems like a horrific thing to lie about.
edit: now with actual numbers!
you would have to pony up a credit card number on the grounds that they could charge you if you slipped again. Basically if anything happened, $5, $10, $30
Oh no, my father was killed in south Africa, gotta go! $5, $10, $30, $90, $270, $810, $2430, Oh you were busy? Oh sorry.
If the video was wrong. Well OK. That seems like a horrific thing to lie about.
edit: now with actual numbers!
We do have safeguards for that sort of thing. Like there's a deadman's switch for if you disappear completely. Similar to our auto-canceling subscriptions for our premium plans: http://blog.beeminder.com/autocancel
When people derail at higher amounts we always ask them if they feel like they got that much value out of Beeminder up until the point they derailed and pretty much invariably the answer is an emphatic yes.
We totally understand that this kind of crazy lifehackery is not for everyone though. For one thing, not everyone even has the problem that we're solving, known as akrasia, or acting against one's own better judgment. We also agree that there are many better ways to hack one's habits -- if they work. Beeminder is kind of like the nuclear option if other lifehacks (like the Seinfeld calendar) don't work and you really need to just force yourself to toe the line.
When people derail at higher amounts we always ask them if they feel like they got that much value out of Beeminder up until the point they derailed and pretty much invariably the answer is an emphatic yes.
We totally understand that this kind of crazy lifehackery is not for everyone though. For one thing, not everyone even has the problem that we're solving, known as akrasia, or acting against one's own better judgment. We also agree that there are many better ways to hack one's habits -- if they work. Beeminder is kind of like the nuclear option if other lifehacks (like the Seinfeld calendar) don't work and you really need to just force yourself to toe the line.
thanks for pointing out to 750words, I just wrote my first 750 words and I'll see how long this will go on for :)
I think having a large physical calendar works better for some people, but there are many excellent apps for using this technique too.
Web:
http://www.joesgoals.com - http://www.42goals.com/ - https://chains.cc/
Phone Apps:
Streaks: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/streaks-motivational-calenda...
(Free) Goal Master: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/goal-master/id347105327?mt=8
http://wayoflifeapp.com/
Web:
http://www.joesgoals.com - http://www.42goals.com/ - https://chains.cc/
Phone Apps:
Streaks: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/streaks-motivational-calenda...
(Free) Goal Master: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/goal-master/id347105327?mt=8
http://wayoflifeapp.com/
I use this one: http://dontbreakthechain.com
way too many choices. I don't know which one to start on...
At least for me the "streak" or chain methods don't work. Because if for any reason i happen to break the chain the probability of me returning to the task decreases the longer was the chain. For example i was doing Codecademy, broke a month long chain - did not return for a year (lost all motivation).
The trick is to learn that when you fall off the wagon, it's ok if you get back on the wagon. What matters is most-of-the-time compliance, not 100.00% compliance
I had the exact same experience with Codecademy.
I've found that any type of motivation/gamification methods that are tied to time don't work for me at all.
I've found that any type of motivation/gamification methods that are tied to time don't work for me at all.
One of the quick hacks I like to do is create a Google Spreadsheet with my goals/things-to-do across the top as column headers. As rows, I use dates, which can easily be generated by starting the first row with today's date and dragging down.
Then, I use GDoc's Conditional Formatting to color in cells...if there's anything in them, perhaps a "y", the cell turns green. Makes it very easy to see how consistent I've been...
If you're not worried about making this task into a whole chore in itself, you can always add more data in each cell and then analyze it later because, hey, it's a spreadsheet. But at the very least, you get get an easy visualization in an app you probably already use frequently and can update from just about anywhere.
Then, I use GDoc's Conditional Formatting to color in cells...if there's anything in them, perhaps a "y", the cell turns green. Makes it very easy to see how consistent I've been...
If you're not worried about making this task into a whole chore in itself, you can always add more data in each cell and then analyze it later because, hey, it's a spreadsheet. But at the very least, you get get an easy visualization in an app you probably already use frequently and can update from just about anywhere.
I tried doing this for a while (after this or something similar surfaced on HN a year or so ago) and used Chains[1], but I didn't feel that it helped much.
Honestly, a simple daily todo list as one of my "app" tabs is the best thing I've found. It puts a simple reminder of whether I've done something or not close to my face a couple times a day. For me, simply forgetting after I put it off the first couple times is half the problem.
[1] http://chains.cc
Honestly, a simple daily todo list as one of my "app" tabs is the best thing I've found. It puts a simple reminder of whether I've done something or not close to my face a couple times a day. For me, simply forgetting after I put it off the first couple times is half the problem.
[1] http://chains.cc
Unfortunately this doesn't work for programming, because in programming we never really know in advance how long anything is going to take, not even within an order of magnitude: a five-day problem looks just like a five-minute problem until it's over. It's the worst thing about programming, the lack of granularity, and why we're always staying up much too late.
Not really seeing why this can't work even so. Spent an hour ruling out one possible cause of that intractable bug you've been trying to figure out, then felt too tired to try anything else? Very well, mark an X for some progress today.
I'm glad that works for some people.
It would never work for me, though. I can't imagine how spending 15 min/day on a screenplay would be productive at all -- when I sit down to program, or write, it takes me that long just to "restore state" and remember what I was in the middle of previously. I only really find myself becoming productive at things after the first hour -- plenty of people call this being in the "zone", etc.
This might be a good thing to do with fairly menial/brainless tasks, but is it really useful for more than that? But even with cleaning the house... it seems so much more efficient to spend an hour every week, when you've got spare time, than vacuum a room and a half one day, dust half the house the next...
It would never work for me, though. I can't imagine how spending 15 min/day on a screenplay would be productive at all -- when I sit down to program, or write, it takes me that long just to "restore state" and remember what I was in the middle of previously. I only really find myself becoming productive at things after the first hour -- plenty of people call this being in the "zone", etc.
This might be a good thing to do with fairly menial/brainless tasks, but is it really useful for more than that? But even with cleaning the house... it seems so much more efficient to spend an hour every week, when you've got spare time, than vacuum a room and a half one day, dust half the house the next...
You've heard the phrase "perfect is the enemy of good enough?"
I think it applies here. There may be better ways of doing things, but I'd rather get something done than do nothing, lamenting the fact that the method at hand isn't the most perfectly efficient way possible.
I think it applies here. There may be better ways of doing things, but I'd rather get something done than do nothing, lamenting the fact that the method at hand isn't the most perfectly efficient way possible.
I find that the more often my mind is in a certain context, the shorter it takes to switch to that state.
For example, when I work on a programming project every single day, then every time I sit down to work on it, it takes a mere 5 minutes to remember where I was previously. But if I come back to it after, say, a week, it can take up to 20 minutes.
This isn't based on any kind of science whatsoever though. Just an observation I made about myself.
For example, when I work on a programming project every single day, then every time I sit down to work on it, it takes a mere 5 minutes to remember where I was previously. But if I come back to it after, say, a week, it can take up to 20 minutes.
This isn't based on any kind of science whatsoever though. Just an observation I made about myself.
Your no different than the people this normally works well for. Being in the "zone" for most people is a very pleasurable activity. If one could sit down or start running and immediately be there, procrastination would be a much smaller problem. It is precisely this unproductive, introductory stage that this method is compelling you to complete in order to get past. By forcing 15 or however many minutes a day you are hoping that more times than not this period will transition into one of productivity in which you don't need to time or force yourself to do more. Some days this won't happen and you can quit after 15 minutes. But for some it equate to more long term productivity sessions per week than strictly scheduling each long term session.
Same for me, and if you want to exercise in any way that actually makes a differnce, it's more like 1 hour minimum with packing for the gym, going to the gym, showering, getting back home. Doing a couple of pushups at home doesn't do much good in the long run.
The mistake you are making is that you think it'll take you 15 min/day to "restore state" every day. If you end up doing the same thing several times you'll get better at it. It's much harder if you skip days.
Another thing is that 15 min/day is pretty easy and it's main purpose is to lure you in. It's much harder to devote an hour or two or more. But 15 min is easy peesy. Once you are in, you tend to stay in for longer.
As for efficiency about cleaning the house, there is more to it than how much time it takes you. Having a clean home all the time is beneficial in ways that you miss when you only clean it once a week. You may not even be aware of the negative effects of the mess.
Another thing is that 15 min/day is pretty easy and it's main purpose is to lure you in. It's much harder to devote an hour or two or more. But 15 min is easy peesy. Once you are in, you tend to stay in for longer.
As for efficiency about cleaning the house, there is more to it than how much time it takes you. Having a clean home all the time is beneficial in ways that you miss when you only clean it once a week. You may not even be aware of the negative effects of the mess.
One of the benefits for me has been that I have got quite a bit better at getting into the zone faster. The daily practice of getting started of course me better at it.
so one day you spend 15 mins and just read over the previous day's work, and the next day you spend 2 hrs. the point is you're sitting down in front of your screen play. i had a friend who said he went to the gym every day even if on some days all he did was putter around for 20 mins. the point is that you show up every day.
I became obsessed with "the chain" and it made me absolutely miserable [0]. I imagine it works for some people, though, and I'm glad I tried it out.
[0]: https://medium.com/lessons-learned/ab219377be93
[0]: https://medium.com/lessons-learned/ab219377be93
I've made an iphone app for it like four years ago. It seems to work really well for some people according to the feedback I've got. I guess it depends if your goal is well defined and can be done easily everyday. Having such system helps to keep the inertia.
You can get the app for free at:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dont-break-the-chain!/id3135...
The Seinfeld productivity calendar works, at least it has helped me. So much so that I've created an Android app based on the idea.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mhillsyste...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mhillsyste...
We built a chrome plugin to make it easy for you to actually get a task on your calendar from anywhere without stopping your train of thought: http://get.spoton.it
Using all day events for things you want to check off also totally works.
Using all day events for things you want to check off also totally works.
There is a webtool for that: http://www.joesgoals.com/
I used it for awhile, then gravitated towards GTD lists, which, are, of course, not that good for periodic tasks. Maybe it's time to try Joe's Goals again.
I used it for awhile, then gravitated towards GTD lists, which, are, of course, not that good for periodic tasks. Maybe it's time to try Joe's Goals again.
I had the same issue with procrastination and ended up using www.aznoe.com I would personally suggest it for anyone with that problem. That list is available on the web, ios and android so you can alway add to it no matter where you are.
And if you miss a day don't forget to say "serenity now!"
I wanna know how the author managed to write 30 pages of text in 1hr45mins (15 minutes each day for a week), the most I can manage in that time frame is most 7, 30 is incredible.
His goals were minimums. Probably there were a few times when he was on a roll and kept going.
Procrastination is just being lazy. Laziness is a habit. That person overcame the habit using this method. Good for him, but this is a somewhat complicated way of doing it.
Well, the world is full of people doing things in complicated ways because they find they work better than any simple way they know of.
This is a single-person idea. My house is chaotic. Any attempt to do orderly things is quickly derailed. I've learned to embrace the disorder.
Ya'll, what amount of time do you find is enough for your streak? I am on day 11 of 1 hour/day working on a startup concept.
I used to think I had a procrastination problem, but my problem has never been getting started. For example, if I come up with a new personal programming project I dig right into it, and I also keep it up for a long time. But I still can't manage to follow trough. It's like I settle for such great perfectionism that everything ends up taking an unreasonable amount of time, and in the end I give up because it's not practical anymore.
Nobody else who can relate to that?
Nobody else who can relate to that?
That used to be me when I was younger. Now with a few more years of experience under my belt, I get more of my personal programming ideas done than ever before.
The secret?
There is none. I'm just better at organizing myself for my goals. I used to go about cool programming ideas like this:
1. Have an initial idea and get really excited about it
2. Clearly see in my mind how I would implement it
3. Think "this can't take more than a week!"
4. Start coding frantically, making sure to have an elegant, modular, reusable code-base
5. On the way, come up with more and more super-cool features
6. Think about every little detail of every feature and make sure implement it "the way it should be done"
7. Give up after two weeks because the project has become overwhelming and despite a massive code-base is not anywhere near a first usable prototype
I think the problem starts at 3. (maybe at 2.) and then gets successively worse all the way down. These days, my workflow looks perhaps more like this:
1. Have an initial idea and get really excited about it
2a. Do a reality-check, find it's probably not worth bothering in the big picture and do something else instead
2b. OR: if I really think the project is small enough, go ahead and give it a go.
3. Think of what the really cool features of the idea are
4. Remove them all and thus come up with a stripped-down, barely even usuable version of the initial idea.
5. Implement it in the most minimal, hackish code base possible: hardcode everything, ints instead of enums, strings are your friend,...
6. Actually finish this bastardized version of the initial idea!
7. Only then decide if it's worth going on from there toward the initial bling-bling idea by means of refactoring and refining or adding more features
Usually, by the time I get to 7. I decide I don't need it - either the version is actually good enough already (meaning the initial grandiose vision was over the top) or it has become clear already that the excitement of point 1. was unwarranted and I probably should have gone for 2a. instead of 2b.
In rare cases, however, I do stay in step 7. and improve upon the initial prototype iteratively. This can even go on for an extended period of time. But even then I'm trying to make sure that I stay true to the same method which can probably be summarized with the following question you have to keep asking yourself:
How can I achieve my goal with the least amount of work?
For me, I've realized it's paramount that I get to a result quickly - that is more important than properties like "with the most beautiful architecture" or "with the best possible UX" etc. You might think that 2a would lead to less stuff done, but in the end I think it actually leads to more mini projects actually becoming a reality.
The secret?
There is none. I'm just better at organizing myself for my goals. I used to go about cool programming ideas like this:
1. Have an initial idea and get really excited about it
2. Clearly see in my mind how I would implement it
3. Think "this can't take more than a week!"
4. Start coding frantically, making sure to have an elegant, modular, reusable code-base
5. On the way, come up with more and more super-cool features
6. Think about every little detail of every feature and make sure implement it "the way it should be done"
7. Give up after two weeks because the project has become overwhelming and despite a massive code-base is not anywhere near a first usable prototype
I think the problem starts at 3. (maybe at 2.) and then gets successively worse all the way down. These days, my workflow looks perhaps more like this:
1. Have an initial idea and get really excited about it
2a. Do a reality-check, find it's probably not worth bothering in the big picture and do something else instead
2b. OR: if I really think the project is small enough, go ahead and give it a go.
3. Think of what the really cool features of the idea are
4. Remove them all and thus come up with a stripped-down, barely even usuable version of the initial idea.
5. Implement it in the most minimal, hackish code base possible: hardcode everything, ints instead of enums, strings are your friend,...
6. Actually finish this bastardized version of the initial idea!
7. Only then decide if it's worth going on from there toward the initial bling-bling idea by means of refactoring and refining or adding more features
Usually, by the time I get to 7. I decide I don't need it - either the version is actually good enough already (meaning the initial grandiose vision was over the top) or it has become clear already that the excitement of point 1. was unwarranted and I probably should have gone for 2a. instead of 2b.
In rare cases, however, I do stay in step 7. and improve upon the initial prototype iteratively. This can even go on for an extended period of time. But even then I'm trying to make sure that I stay true to the same method which can probably be summarized with the following question you have to keep asking yourself:
How can I achieve my goal with the least amount of work?
For me, I've realized it's paramount that I get to a result quickly - that is more important than properties like "with the most beautiful architecture" or "with the best possible UX" etc. You might think that 2a would lead to less stuff done, but in the end I think it actually leads to more mini projects actually becoming a reality.
> 'better'
Might I suggest that whilst it's great to get to completion pretty quickly and have many completed mini-projects under one's belt, that there might be some value in younger programmers choosing the untenable-but-beautiful approach to the codebase in order to learn some more about ways that they could build such architectures?
Whilst in the long term (and when working with others) it seems almost always best to go with a codebase which balances well simplicity and expressiveness (no point using Python like Java!) mightn't it be valuable experience, being able to work freely on those mini-projects when younger and without the burden of having to design for those goals of simplicity?
Might I suggest that whilst it's great to get to completion pretty quickly and have many completed mini-projects under one's belt, that there might be some value in younger programmers choosing the untenable-but-beautiful approach to the codebase in order to learn some more about ways that they could build such architectures?
Whilst in the long term (and when working with others) it seems almost always best to go with a codebase which balances well simplicity and expressiveness (no point using Python like Java!) mightn't it be valuable experience, being able to work freely on those mini-projects when younger and without the burden of having to design for those goals of simplicity?
Well, I guess since it's one's own project you can do whatever you want with it!
And I think your point is fair: there's certainly merit in training oneself to write "beautiful" code. But I guess then your goal is simply different, your focus would be on improving your architectural skills rather than finishing the project. There's nothing wrong with that. And of course if you can manage to reach both goals at the same time, you win double.
And I think your point is fair: there's certainly merit in training oneself to write "beautiful" code. But I guess then your goal is simply different, your focus would be on improving your architectural skills rather than finishing the project. There's nothing wrong with that. And of course if you can manage to reach both goals at the same time, you win double.
Same here but I don't really consider it a problem.
I work on personal projects a few days or weeks at a time and then after solving the first set of big problems I generally let it slip and lose interest. The source code lives on my hard drive and then one weekend next year or a few years later I remember what I had been writing and I come to revisit it. Maybe I rewrite the program or extend it up to the next level, or just look at it and think "That's where I was, mentally, in 2010; I think I've made progress since, I'm not the same programmer anymore."
I place no intrinsic value on finishing the projects itself because then they would start to resemble work and I want my hobby projects to be fun.
At work I procrastinate too but that's mostly doing the more interesting tasks or tasks with the highest impact first and the less interesting tasks only when really, really needed. So I don't basically procrastinate, I just prioritize.
I think procrastination is prioritizing, really.
And sometimes you prioritize complete idling over doing anything at all which I think just tells that you were trying to do the wrong thing because if you weren't you would have forgotten to eat while staying up doing it.
I work on personal projects a few days or weeks at a time and then after solving the first set of big problems I generally let it slip and lose interest. The source code lives on my hard drive and then one weekend next year or a few years later I remember what I had been writing and I come to revisit it. Maybe I rewrite the program or extend it up to the next level, or just look at it and think "That's where I was, mentally, in 2010; I think I've made progress since, I'm not the same programmer anymore."
I place no intrinsic value on finishing the projects itself because then they would start to resemble work and I want my hobby projects to be fun.
At work I procrastinate too but that's mostly doing the more interesting tasks or tasks with the highest impact first and the less interesting tasks only when really, really needed. So I don't basically procrastinate, I just prioritize.
I think procrastination is prioritizing, really.
And sometimes you prioritize complete idling over doing anything at all which I think just tells that you were trying to do the wrong thing because if you weren't you would have forgotten to eat while staying up doing it.
>I place no intrinsic value on finishing the projects itself because then they would start to resemble work and I want my hobby projects to be fun.
Absolutely. The joy is mostly in the idea-making, building, and shaping process. Actually "shipping the product" turns the fun into work.
For better or worse though, most currently successful projects are one person's hobby that's eventually turned into a final product. And there is definitely some intrinsic value in success, and in providing something useful to others, even if it's a different kind of goal.
Absolutely. The joy is mostly in the idea-making, building, and shaping process. Actually "shipping the product" turns the fun into work.
For better or worse though, most currently successful projects are one person's hobby that's eventually turned into a final product. And there is definitely some intrinsic value in success, and in providing something useful to others, even if it's a different kind of goal.
I used to think this way too. For every project I tend to learn a lot of new things, which has a value in it self, even tough I never finish the entire project.
But during the last years I've been switching work places and having constant trouble fitting in to social constructions, and I keep thinking I would be much happier being self-employed. And to do that I need to start following trough.
But during the last years I've been switching work places and having constant trouble fitting in to social constructions, and I keep thinking I would be much happier being self-employed. And to do that I need to start following trough.
This is me. The only difference s that I can't keep up a project for more than a day or two. After that, it's the next new project that takes my interest.
I didn't do as well as I hoped in high school because my parents couldn't afford a tutor. Getting me there was hard enough. I'm not exactly stupid, or so I've been told, but failure after failure which can be attributed totally down to my lack of self-discipline certain makes me feel inadequate.
Hell, just implementing this very technique is one of my failures, amongst other failures to improve my self-discipline.
It's having a massive impact on both my work and home life. Even to the point of asking HN for advice. Nothing I try works.
I'm seeing a psychologist tomorrow for an extra perspective. I hope they can help (as long as the appointment doesn't slip my mind at the last minute!)
I didn't do as well as I hoped in high school because my parents couldn't afford a tutor. Getting me there was hard enough. I'm not exactly stupid, or so I've been told, but failure after failure which can be attributed totally down to my lack of self-discipline certain makes me feel inadequate.
Hell, just implementing this very technique is one of my failures, amongst other failures to improve my self-discipline.
It's having a massive impact on both my work and home life. Even to the point of asking HN for advice. Nothing I try works.
I'm seeing a psychologist tomorrow for an extra perspective. I hope they can help (as long as the appointment doesn't slip my mind at the last minute!)
I keep various "to do" lists on my phone to track the things that I would like to get done. I find that breaking down projects into small tasks that can more easily completed and crossed off helps with my sense of accomplishment and progress. If a project doesn't seem as daunting I am more likely to attempt to complete it.
Setting reminder alarms for important things like appointments helps too.
Setting reminder alarms for important things like appointments helps too.
I know this thread will be old by then, but i wouldn’t mind hearing what the psychologist had to say as I've been thinking seeing someone too. So if you don't think its too private, pleas share!
I have a feeling ADHD might come up but I'm not dead certain about that. I've looked it up online and it sounds very, very much like me, even my boss and friends agree. That's, however, not enough for a diagnosis and perhaps there's something else at play.
One thing I have noticed is that initially I thought all of my issues were unrelated and down to character flaws but they all connect like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle when looked at with ADHD in mind.
If you want, email me on James at thefreshuk dot com and I will keep you updated on how things go :)
One thing I have noticed is that initially I thought all of my issues were unrelated and down to character flaws but they all connect like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle when looked at with ADHD in mind.
If you want, email me on James at thefreshuk dot com and I will keep you updated on how things go :)
I am an author of a book on adult ADHD. Just want to let you know that it is not rare in adults and that if you have it, it can make your life a lot harder.
On the flipside, for most people, treatment for ADHD works pretty well.
Anyway, good luck!
On the flipside, for most people, treatment for ADHD works pretty well.
Anyway, good luck!
Do you have a link to your book? I'd been interested in reading it!
Sure! It's "Adult ADHD: What You Need to Know" which you can find on Amazon.
It's a bit different from the typical books on the subject, but does a good job (imo, of course!) explaining more about how ADHD appears in adults.
Either way, if you have any questions on ADHD, please feel free to ask; my email is dgurevich5 [at] gmail.com
It's a bit different from the typical books on the subject, but does a good job (imo, of course!) explaining more about how ADHD appears in adults.
Either way, if you have any questions on ADHD, please feel free to ask; my email is dgurevich5 [at] gmail.com
I've been thinking about asperger syndrome as I've always been inbound and never acting out. Besides I've got a cousin diagnosed with quite severe asperger. But then again, a lot of people are mentioning ADD here.
From what I've read, there is supposedly big cross-over between ADHD, autism spectrum disorders and things like dyslexia/dyspraxia/dyscalculia.
My little boy (adopted) seems to be showing signs of autism, which wouldn't be surprising since his dad suffers from it himself. ADHD, however, was mentioned as an alternative and his school said that could make more sense, so it's easy to see crossover here!
I think it's good to explore all possibilities. It's good to be educated about these things - especially since misdiagnosis seems more common in psychiatry (anecdotal).
My little boy (adopted) seems to be showing signs of autism, which wouldn't be surprising since his dad suffers from it himself. ADHD, however, was mentioned as an alternative and his school said that could make more sense, so it's easy to see crossover here!
I think it's good to explore all possibilities. It's good to be educated about these things - especially since misdiagnosis seems more common in psychiatry (anecdotal).
This is me x1000. Everything I write has to be shipped almost immediately, because the next day it looks like shit to me.
Random question- did you do really well in school when you were young? If yes, did you then get progressively worse as it required more prep?
Random question- did you do really well in school when you were young? If yes, did you then get progressively worse as it required more prep?
That's my life. Did great in school, grades started dropping near the end of highschool. Instead of learning self discipline my parents got a tutor to help me focus. Graduated school top of my class, got a full scholarship for a good college so I moved away from home. Dropped out after a year because I couldn't handle having no structure.
God it's depressing just typing that out.
God it's depressing just typing that out.
I actually did drop out of University for the same reason too.
Exact Same here, I'm in the process of trying to get back on my feet, do you have any advice on what helped you most?
Peaked academically around 15, cruised through the remainder of high school before getting lazy/bored with my chosen degree and quitting uni/college. Have a million ideas and love starting on them, but get distracted easily and miss on the follow through quite often.
I imagine there are a lot of us in the same boat.
I imagine there are a lot of us in the same boat.
Count me in...
This is me too. I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly a case of being praised for ability rather than effort. Apparently this creates an environment of fear of failure and a sort of "if I don't try it doesn't matter" attitude. I make sure to always tray and praise my kids for trying hard rather than being smart now.
When it comes to work or school I've always managed to do what's expected even if it's sometimes a struggle. But as soon as I'm left with only my own expectations to fulfill, that's when I hit the wall.
I was okay in school, nothing out of the ordinary. Always did my best, but never a talent. But what I noticed is that the more I learn in a subject, the more of a perfectionist I become and the longer It takes to accomplish a task (which sounds like a paradox).
I was okay in school, nothing out of the ordinary. Always did my best, but never a talent. But what I noticed is that the more I learn in a subject, the more of a perfectionist I become and the longer It takes to accomplish a task (which sounds like a paradox).
I can tell you what works for me, and has for years.
There's an old saying that goes "Once begun, the job's nearly done" - STARTING the project is the hardest part.
So I use an egg timer or if I'm working with my headphones on the PC, I use Orzeszek Timer (it's free) - but the idea is I set it for 15 minutes or 20 minutes or 30 minutes (whatever amount I want to make sure I work on a task) and then remind myself that starting is the hardest part, and that all I have to do is work until the timer goes off, and I can quit.
The reality is that normally once we actually start working, we stick with it for a while, but I believe the timer allows us to 'check out' and just focus on work.
See, when we are working, there are a million things going on in our heads, reminders, deadlines, things on the internet we want to look at, but with a timer and an understanding that the timer will remind us when we can quit, we can just focus on working.
There's an old saying that goes "Once begun, the job's nearly done" - STARTING the project is the hardest part.
So I use an egg timer or if I'm working with my headphones on the PC, I use Orzeszek Timer (it's free) - but the idea is I set it for 15 minutes or 20 minutes or 30 minutes (whatever amount I want to make sure I work on a task) and then remind myself that starting is the hardest part, and that all I have to do is work until the timer goes off, and I can quit.
The reality is that normally once we actually start working, we stick with it for a while, but I believe the timer allows us to 'check out' and just focus on work.
See, when we are working, there are a million things going on in our heads, reminders, deadlines, things on the internet we want to look at, but with a timer and an understanding that the timer will remind us when we can quit, we can just focus on working.
I sometimes succumb to both issues, but more commonly it's definitely exactly what you describe.
I feel like it may be due to ADD or something like it. Whatever it is, it's definitely quite annoying.
The key is to at least quickly get the project to a state where it's actually usable, and does something, even if it doesn't yet have all the features you envision right now. Over time, if you or other users seem to get some sort of utility out of the project, you'll eventually feel compelled to go back and make those changes and really make it more perfect. And if no one seems to get any utility out of it, then maybe you just saved some time you would've spent obsessing over making it perfect, and maybe it is good to actually lay it to rest.
I feel like it may be due to ADD or something like it. Whatever it is, it's definitely quite annoying.
The key is to at least quickly get the project to a state where it's actually usable, and does something, even if it doesn't yet have all the features you envision right now. Over time, if you or other users seem to get some sort of utility out of the project, you'll eventually feel compelled to go back and make those changes and really make it more perfect. And if no one seems to get any utility out of it, then maybe you just saved some time you would've spent obsessing over making it perfect, and maybe it is good to actually lay it to rest.
That's me, and ADD.
I had a girlfriend who loved Seinfield--memorized the episodes, etc. At first I thought it was because it
was a fairly amusing T.V. show, and she grew up in upstate
New York. After a lot of thought I realized the reason
she loved the show is because it affirmed her selfish behavior.
If you don't know what I mean; you might want to reexamine how you interact with the world? Ya, I', talking about you Wendy.
If you don't know what I mean; you might want to reexamine how you interact with the world? Ya, I', talking about you Wendy.
Must be a Gen Y thing (or whatever you call 20 somethings these days). I'm afraid to me, it seems exceedingly childish to need something like a chain of Red X's in order to get something as simple as "workout" or "clean" or "do job" or "work" done on a consistent basis. It's called SELF DISCIPLINE and it's really not rocket science. Now get off my lawn.
>It's called SELF DISCIPLINE and it's really not rocket science.
Do you think self discipline is inherent or learned? If it's inherent, then you can't fault an individual without it.
If it's learned, how does one acquire it? It seems like programs like this are the "Gen Y" approach to learning self discipline.
Perhaps the baby-boomers learned it from their families, whereas Gen Y did not. Which (if anything) speaks volumes about the parenting quality of your generation ;)
Do you think self discipline is inherent or learned? If it's inherent, then you can't fault an individual without it.
If it's learned, how does one acquire it? It seems like programs like this are the "Gen Y" approach to learning self discipline.
Perhaps the baby-boomers learned it from their families, whereas Gen Y did not. Which (if anything) speaks volumes about the parenting quality of your generation ;)
It's called SELF DISCIPLINE and it's really not rocket science.
I looked at your last half dozen comments. Your challenge, should you choose to accept it: How many days can you go without making a snarky or negative comment on HN?
I looked at your last half dozen comments. Your challenge, should you choose to accept it: How many days can you go without making a snarky or negative comment on HN?
Benjamin Franklin used a similar method:
In his twenties he set out to improve himself very systematically.
He first ascertained the qualities that he found most important to
cultivate, including Temperance, Silence, Order, Resolution, Frugality,
Industry, Sincerity, Justice, Moderation, Cleanliness, Tranquility,
Chastity and Humility. He then devised a simple daily record and chose one
of these virtues each week to focus upon. His record contained a matrix
with a list of the virtues he wished to perfect in his life down the left
side and across the top a list of the days of the week. He would then mark
a dot or check in each box when he failed to meet his own expectation for
the virtue he was seeking to practice that day. His goal was to have a
week free of all marks showing success.Self discipline has no relation to generation. It's a human condition problem. This method seems to have some merit and may be a tool that can help people suffering from depression climb themselves out. I look forward to trying it.
some of these "Red X's" help people develop their self discipline