The real reason why developers are awkward(trogger.com)
trogger.com
The real reason why developers are awkward
http://trogger.com/discussions/the-real-reason-why-developers-are-awkward
17 comments
Awesome. I'm forwarding that to my girlfriend.
"It has even learned, by means of brain scans, that introverts process information differently from other people (I am not making this up)."
Just as the rest of the article, this part certainly rings true for me. The fact that I don't think in terms of words seems to baffle people. I always thought this might be because I was raised bilingually, so my thought process might be happening on some kind of superset of the two languages. Maybe, however, it's this that the author alludes to and has no connection with language? It'd have been nice if he had covered more of this angle.
"It has even learned, by means of brain scans, that introverts process information differently from other people (I am not making this up)."
Just as the rest of the article, this part certainly rings true for me. The fact that I don't think in terms of words seems to baffle people. I always thought this might be because I was raised bilingually, so my thought process might be happening on some kind of superset of the two languages. Maybe, however, it's this that the author alludes to and has no connection with language? It'd have been nice if he had covered more of this angle.
I've been rised bilingual (Catalan and Spanish) and now I think I'm fluent in English, and I find myself thinking in the three languages (mostly Catalan and English) in different moments.
What is more weird is that I'm more or less social depending on the language I've to use, being much more social talking in English than in Spanish or Catalan. I think it may be due to the fact that the English classes I took where very participative and I was usually forced to talk. I really don't know.
(And for the article, right now after 5 days of vacation, back at work, and after 6 hours coding I'm really looking forward to go out and socialize a little bit more (I'm pretty happy I have a very good environment at work), but sunday after spending all day with people I was eager to sit in front of my computer and code for hours.).
What is more weird is that I'm more or less social depending on the language I've to use, being much more social talking in English than in Spanish or Catalan. I think it may be due to the fact that the English classes I took where very participative and I was usually forced to talk. I really don't know.
(And for the article, right now after 5 days of vacation, back at work, and after 6 hours coding I'm really looking forward to go out and socialize a little bit more (I'm pretty happy I have a very good environment at work), but sunday after spending all day with people I was eager to sit in front of my computer and code for hours.).
Programming makes weird because even though I'm not coding, I'm thinking about my code all the time and as a result of that, I rather live in my own head than interact with people around me.
However, its also during these times ( not in front of computer ) that I often think of the most brilliant re-factoring, algorithms and ideas for my code. So strange as it sounds, socializing helps me to code.
However, its also during these times ( not in front of computer ) that I often think of the most brilliant re-factoring, algorithms and ideas for my code. So strange as it sounds, socializing helps me to code.
After a long day at work, I find I need certain cues to tell my brain to cut it out and think about other things for a while. Sometimes it's a tasty beverage (be it beer, coffee, or otherwise), a long walk, or turning up a favourite album really loud.
I think this is the same for any individual whose job requires that you live in your head for a long time. I'm fairly certain artists who are deeply involved in their work experience this "surfacing", as I've come to call it.
I think this is the same for any individual whose job requires that you live in your head for a long time. I'm fairly certain artists who are deeply involved in their work experience this "surfacing", as I've come to call it.
I both agree and disagree. I think computer science as a whole has changed (not hindered) social interactions. As an undergrad student I'm constantly whipping out of different social scenes -- from working and hanging around my fellow computer science majors to interfacing with the rest of the world. Naturally, there are a lot of jokes/social quirks sitting on either side of that fence. More and more I have found myself not caring/thinking to judge which side of that fence I'm on and as a result I, on occasion, spit out something that makes no sense to my present company. While I am constantly thinking of new ideas/solutions for various computer science problems, the computer science mindset is one that I am constantly slipping in and out of.
"So strange as it sounds, socializing helps me to code."
Too bad it doesn't work the other way too...or maybe it does?
Too bad it doesn't work the other way too...or maybe it does?
It could make you better at UID.
Being a developer gives you an endless source of learning, there's always something new to experiment with. For me that meant that in my late teens I was often messing about with code and reading books whilst my friends were calling saying they were bored, as a result they'd look to social interaction to solve their boredom, including going out to parties etc.
I think that's the start of the divide. When you do eventually pop your head up from your laptop, your friends have all developed superior social skills than you, so you're instantly out of place and on the back foot in highly social situations such as parties and nights out.
I recognise that I lack certain social skills required to flourish in big crowds and groups, but I think its just a matter of forcing myself to attend events, be more open with people and it'll improve. If you do something all the time, providing you're a good learner - it should get easier.
I think that's the start of the divide. When you do eventually pop your head up from your laptop, your friends have all developed superior social skills than you, so you're instantly out of place and on the back foot in highly social situations such as parties and nights out.
I recognise that I lack certain social skills required to flourish in big crowds and groups, but I think its just a matter of forcing myself to attend events, be more open with people and it'll improve. If you do something all the time, providing you're a good learner - it should get easier.
I am not sure I agree with the "developing makes you awkward" idea. I don't know if there is any scientific basis to the introversion/extroversion axis, but I've had great success in building up an extrovert persona that I am completely comfortable in, though all the tests I've taken puts me strongly in the "introvert" end of the spectrum.
The Myers-Briggs test for example gives me an INXJ profile (with a very strong "I" score). About a decade ago, I figured out that "becoming" more of an extrovert could really balance my life out, and now it is something I can swoitch on and off as well to the point where (a) I am equally comfortable in either mode and (b) people who have seen my "extrovert" side can't believe I am perfectly happy sitting alone in a corner and coding for a few days or weeks if that is what the situation warrants, or alternatively party for a 12 hours staright. I don't know if this is relevant, but I am extremely comfortable with public speaking and quite enjoy theatre(performance) and music(performance).
I wonder if this whole "personality" thing isn't very fluid (and thus hackable). Just one anecdotal data point against the "development makes you awkward" idea.
The Myers-Briggs test for example gives me an INXJ profile (with a very strong "I" score). About a decade ago, I figured out that "becoming" more of an extrovert could really balance my life out, and now it is something I can swoitch on and off as well to the point where (a) I am equally comfortable in either mode and (b) people who have seen my "extrovert" side can't believe I am perfectly happy sitting alone in a corner and coding for a few days or weeks if that is what the situation warrants, or alternatively party for a 12 hours staright. I don't know if this is relevant, but I am extremely comfortable with public speaking and quite enjoy theatre(performance) and music(performance).
I wonder if this whole "personality" thing isn't very fluid (and thus hackable). Just one anecdotal data point against the "development makes you awkward" idea.
I'm not a hacker, but work with a at times very awkward programmer, who often sends out emails which are a monument to pedantry. Reading this article makes me more understanding.
On the flip side, should one be worried if they are working with a programmer who is not awkward, then?
should one be worried if they are working with a programmer who is not awkward, then?
Part of the article's theme is that the awkwardness comes and goes. When the author is not programming he doesn't feel awkward at all.
It's also important to realize the range of human variation. There are programmers who can code at top speed while carrying on a continuous patter. They're not common, but they exist. There are programmers who do all their work with an IRC session chugging along in an adjacent window. I can't seem to cope with that, myself -- I can't focus when messages are scrolling by in my peripheral vision. I also can't focus when there's music playing, but other people can't code without music.
Part of the article's theme is that the awkwardness comes and goes. When the author is not programming he doesn't feel awkward at all.
It's also important to realize the range of human variation. There are programmers who can code at top speed while carrying on a continuous patter. They're not common, but they exist. There are programmers who do all their work with an IRC session chugging along in an adjacent window. I can't seem to cope with that, myself -- I can't focus when messages are scrolling by in my peripheral vision. I also can't focus when there's music playing, but other people can't code without music.
I find that when I'm in the middle of an intense coding session I become abrasive and distracted from others' perspective. If you interrupt me when I'm working on a problem, I will lose it! In several senses. I find that I can't work when there is music playing - generally when I start working I have music quite loud but as I get more immersed in the problem it becomes quieter and quieter until I mute it completely.
On the other hand I'm comfortable in social situations so long as I have some time for that mental intensity to dissipate. I just need a buffer to switch modes.
On the other hand I'm comfortable in social situations so long as I have some time for that mental intensity to dissipate. I just need a buffer to switch modes.
It probably matters how you program. If you spend more time doing research, then you are not so much in danger of wasting time with hacking away at stuff in the hope that enduring trial and error will solve the problem.
I try not to spend that much time actually coding stuff and probably spend more time working stuff out on paper and talking to people before using a computer.
I try not to spend that much time actually coding stuff and probably spend more time working stuff out on paper and talking to people before using a computer.
I guess in my heart I'm not really a hacker. But computers are good at getting things done.
Disagree. Been a hard-core programmer for 43 years and an occasional manager. My friends think of me as being as social as anybody, as do I.
Social interaction requires you to relate to other's experiences. When I'm often in the zone, I not only feel more distant, but also have less to say as usually I read less then, don't go out much.
Moreover, I often feel dissatisfied of myself while I don't have some tangible results at work. Then I feel shy and can't enjoy the moment. People see that (and especially girls I think!).
Moreover, I often feel dissatisfied of myself while I don't have some tangible results at work. Then I feel shy and can't enjoy the moment. People see that (and especially girls I think!).
Programming made me over-rationalize surroundings in a sociopathic, House-like way. I don't find it particularly hard to not be awkward but in most cases I don't see why.
Being awkward helps me deal with (unwanted) attention and loads of bullshit that most people try to unload on me for some reasons.
Being awkward helps me deal with (unwanted) attention and loads of bullshit that most people try to unload on me for some reasons.
I'm working from a functional spec and just getting used to the business at my new job. Because the spec sometimes isn't very clear I have plenty of opportunities to talk to my supervisors to ask them to clarify things.
Of course this is very different from shooting the breeze over a drink or lunch.
Of course this is very different from shooting the breeze over a drink or lunch.
These articles are mostly boring and they seem to constantly pop up. I think programming tends to attract less social people because you can do so much on your own. It's also a brainy activity and a lot of smart people are not particularly social.
It's a genetic fact that all personalities are different. Some people are more naturally social than others. That may lead them to careers other than programming. However, this shouldn't excuse the developer from being socially awkward. Humans are naturally social creatures and learning to be social should not be something that is ignored. I think people who are more social are more happy and lead more fulfilling lives. Why you may enjoy sitting behind a screen for 12 hours a day, I think you'd be a lot happy spending 8 hours behind the screen and the other 4 interacting with people.
It's a genetic fact that all personalities are different. Some people are more naturally social than others. That may lead them to careers other than programming. However, this shouldn't excuse the developer from being socially awkward. Humans are naturally social creatures and learning to be social should not be something that is ignored. I think people who are more social are more happy and lead more fulfilling lives. Why you may enjoy sitting behind a screen for 12 hours a day, I think you'd be a lot happy spending 8 hours behind the screen and the other 4 interacting with people.
people who are more social are more happy and lead more fulfilling lives
Wow, that's a bigoted extrovert perspective. Really, I'm just fine being alone with myself and my thoughts. Sure, company is nice from time to time but no amount of training will change the fact that introverts find other people draining.
I took a class on public speaking once, and the instructor mentioned that I was the most personable speaker she'd ever known. I still need plenty of alone time to recharge after dealing with people for any extended length of time.
Don't underestimate the calmness, power, and meditative qualities of introversion and self-acceptance.
Wow, that's a bigoted extrovert perspective. Really, I'm just fine being alone with myself and my thoughts. Sure, company is nice from time to time but no amount of training will change the fact that introverts find other people draining.
I took a class on public speaking once, and the instructor mentioned that I was the most personable speaker she'd ever known. I still need plenty of alone time to recharge after dealing with people for any extended length of time.
Don't underestimate the calmness, power, and meditative qualities of introversion and self-acceptance.
Hallelujah. You can find good articles in this vein at sengifted.org
It's not as bad for me, but I do sense the same things. After a long day of coding it takes me about 30 minutes of conversation to get back into talking.
Shouldn't we make programming more social? Something like programming 2.0. :-)
I wonder why I get a vote down for this comment.
Programming 2.0 is happening as open source development. Just because I presented my point in a casual way does not mean my comment is meaningless and negative to the community.
Programming 2.0 is happening as open source development. Just because I presented my point in a casual way does not mean my comment is meaningless and negative to the community.
If people were logical and did what I said we would get along just fine.
I have to agree with the thesis of this mini-article. The mind-set of productive coding (for me) is extremely anal and abrasive. The computer doesn't care about niceties, it only cares about correctness, and so to feed it, it is more important to express things exactly and correctly than nicely.
I often find myself being a lot more brutal in my communications if I'm in the middle of, or emerging from, a coding session, than the rest of the time.
I often find myself being a lot more brutal in my communications if I'm in the middle of, or emerging from, a coding session, than the rest of the time.
I have the same experience as well. Whenever I'm most proficient with coding and have to leave for lunch with my coworkers, I find myself just sitting there not participating in the conversation at all. The reverse is also true, it often takes me substantial amount of time to get back to my most efficient coding mode after going out.
I think the reason is more than just b/c my mind is immersed with the problem. Even when we work in the same team and discuss the same technical problem I still find it difficult to engage in the conversation. As a bilingual speaker it's always awkward for me to switch between English and my native language, especially if I spend a long duration using one exclusively.
My guess is developers won't feel awkward if we can socialize in machine language. That also saves tons of time spending on switching in and out of the awkward mode.
I think the reason is more than just b/c my mind is immersed with the problem. Even when we work in the same team and discuss the same technical problem I still find it difficult to engage in the conversation. As a bilingual speaker it's always awkward for me to switch between English and my native language, especially if I spend a long duration using one exclusively.
My guess is developers won't feel awkward if we can socialize in machine language. That also saves tons of time spending on switching in and out of the awkward mode.
I agree, but I think that over time, you can also learn to be not-awkwardly-social in spite of it. It does take a conscious effort to "context-switch", and I find that a walk outside often helps.
Programming hasn't made me awkward. Instead, I've taught myself how to deal with situations, making me much less awkward. (to the point of being pretty normal and hardly awkward at all)
And as the reverse of the article, I find hours of social interaction (mostly with people other than friends) extremely exhausting. Unlike the author, I don't warm up, I just feel drained and want some time to myself to regenerate.