Sweden Twitter Experiment Goes Painfully Awry(mashable.com)
mashable.com
Sweden Twitter Experiment Goes Painfully Awry
http://mashable.com/2012/06/12/sweden-twitter/
19 comments
http://meloukhia.net/2009/07/hipster_racism.html
> Hipster racism involves making derogatory comments with a racial basis in an attempt to seem witty and above it all. Specifically, the idea is to sound ironic, as in “I’m allowed to say this because of course I’m not racist, so it’s funny.” It’s an aspect of a larger part of the hipster culture, which wants to seem jaded and urbane and oh-so-witty. Using language which is viewed as inflammatory or not appropriate is supposed to push the boundaries and make someone look edgy, but it only really comes across that way to people who buy into that system. To everyone else, it’s just racist.
So no, this isn't some unheard of Swedish phenomenon, it's "hipster racism," as described above. And god help us if you are going to tell me that Swedes just aren't racist like Americans.
> Hipster racism involves making derogatory comments with a racial basis in an attempt to seem witty and above it all. Specifically, the idea is to sound ironic, as in “I’m allowed to say this because of course I’m not racist, so it’s funny.” It’s an aspect of a larger part of the hipster culture, which wants to seem jaded and urbane and oh-so-witty. Using language which is viewed as inflammatory or not appropriate is supposed to push the boundaries and make someone look edgy, but it only really comes across that way to people who buy into that system. To everyone else, it’s just racist.
So no, this isn't some unheard of Swedish phenomenon, it's "hipster racism," as described above. And god help us if you are going to tell me that Swedes just aren't racist like Americans.
The linked blog post is a bit of a rant. Sounds like the author really hates hipsters and just wishes to accuse them of being racist without actually providing any substantial evidence to back the claim. If "hipster racism" is a legitimate phenomenon, I'd like to read about it from another source.
On the main point, the Swedish troll isn't really saying anything overtly racist. She is just mentioning a number of things that make people feel uncomfortable and making some questionable remarks that are obviously designed to be incendiary. I'm not sure this fits into the "hipster racism" model, as described in the linked blog.
On the main point, the Swedish troll isn't really saying anything overtly racist. She is just mentioning a number of things that make people feel uncomfortable and making some questionable remarks that are obviously designed to be incendiary. I'm not sure this fits into the "hipster racism" model, as described in the linked blog.
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I am tempted to believe this article is a troll. But on second thought, the author is probably just projecting imaginary racism on at least half of the so-called hipster racists.
The author suggests that the use of the hashtag #thuglife is racist. What kind of moron thinks pointing out the lack of behavior attributed to a "thug" (which, by the way, is not even racial in nature) in an ironic way is exhibiting a form of racism?
Then the author attributes the word "ghetto" with racism. News flash: ghettos are never fun to live in, much less visit. Certainly there's racial undertones because traditionally ghettos were populated by a single ethnic group, but even the explanation of the example by the author disregards race and focuses solely on the poor conditions of the area.
I won't comment on number 3 because there's no arguing with emotional instability.
On number 4, I have to say that it is definitely racist to say any ethnic or other group in general is bad or sucks, etc. That being said, I have lived with white anglo-saxon protestants for most of my life, and they can definitely be super lame. Perhaps it's an excessive amount of lameness that forces people who deal with it on a regular basis to lash out at the whole populous. Not good, but at the same time, I totally understand what the hipster is saying. And is it hurting anybody? I don't think so. The least-oppressed group can stand to take a few knocks for their flaws every so often.
The author suggests that the use of the hashtag #thuglife is racist. What kind of moron thinks pointing out the lack of behavior attributed to a "thug" (which, by the way, is not even racial in nature) in an ironic way is exhibiting a form of racism?
Then the author attributes the word "ghetto" with racism. News flash: ghettos are never fun to live in, much less visit. Certainly there's racial undertones because traditionally ghettos were populated by a single ethnic group, but even the explanation of the example by the author disregards race and focuses solely on the poor conditions of the area.
I won't comment on number 3 because there's no arguing with emotional instability.
On number 4, I have to say that it is definitely racist to say any ethnic or other group in general is bad or sucks, etc. That being said, I have lived with white anglo-saxon protestants for most of my life, and they can definitely be super lame. Perhaps it's an excessive amount of lameness that forces people who deal with it on a regular basis to lash out at the whole populous. Not good, but at the same time, I totally understand what the hipster is saying. And is it hurting anybody? I don't think so. The least-oppressed group can stand to take a few knocks for their flaws every so often.
... behavior attributed to a "thug" (which, by the way, is not even racial in nature)
The denotation of "thug" may not be racial, but it has racial connotations in many contexts.
The denotation of "thug" may not be racial, but it has racial connotations in many contexts.
What's the racial connotation? The fact that black people refer to themselves as thugs in music and culture in a quasi-romanticized way of expressing who they are? The term is significantly less racial than words like "goyim" which explicitly refer to race, yet are completely benign in everyday speech. The only difference I see is that if a word is tangentially related to black culture, it's racist for non-black people to use them.
The phrase in question, "thug life", is an attitude and a way of life. It originated from 2Pac who defined it as an acronym meaning "The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone" as well as a code to live by (which gangs such as the Crips and Bloods signed a peace treaty based on). It never had anything to do with one's race. Of course the majority of the gangs that were attracted to this phrase were african-american, but included white, latino and asian members.
The phrase in question, "thug life", is an attitude and a way of life. It originated from 2Pac who defined it as an acronym meaning "The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone" as well as a code to live by (which gangs such as the Crips and Bloods signed a peace treaty based on). It never had anything to do with one's race. Of course the majority of the gangs that were attracted to this phrase were african-american, but included white, latino and asian members.
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> I am tempted to believe this article is a troll.
Check the domain name for confirmation.
Check the domain name for confirmation.
Yeah, that's totally it. We don't ever have any ironic-but-also-super-racist racism over here.
Seems to me that she has been given a platform to stir the pot and has taken the opportunity to do so. This seems like trolling to me, plain and simple. Use strong words/imagery that incite emotion and blind the reader from noticing that she isn't really saying anything that bad. That said, I'm sure the Swedish tourist board wasn't quite expecting this...
You didn't think calling a photoshopped picture of Freddie Mercury "hungry gay with aids" that bad?
I think its crass, tasteless, offensive and annoying. However, with the troll filter on, I cant really get that upset about it...
In the grand scheme of internet trolling?
It barely registers.
By 4chan standards, it's positively noble.
Of course, anything starting with "by 4chan standards" has got to be pretty depraved already.
Of course, anything starting with "by 4chan standards" has got to be pretty depraved already.
No, as a swede i dont this this is that bad, I believe that gay people has the same rights as all other humans and I believe this is a common swedish mindset. Sweden is a highly secularized and liberal country in the subjects of gay and religion. These comments on jews and gays are just inflammatory and made to make page views. As outsiders that have a more sensitive view on gay and religion these views may be offensive. but to many swedes these comments are recognized as attention craving and irrelevant.
For traditional media, it's horrendous. For what comes out of the internet on a daily basis, it's banal.
It was pretty funny? I laughed. Might be a scandinavian thing.
Is either stupidity, insanity, tasteless and surrealistic trolling, or brilliant satire. And I've got no idea which at this point.
Always bet on stupidity.
Sweden is certainly one of the most politically correct countries around; there is just one "good" way of thinking.
In short, just another stupid moral panic in Sweden. Nothing to see here, move along.
In short, just another stupid moral panic in Sweden. Nothing to see here, move along.
But it's not like we don't know what happens when you give a public forum accessible to anybody. And the Swedish tourist board must have known it too. The appearance of trolls is inevitable, the question is only when. I'm sure right now thousands of people over the world are thinking "this is trolling? If only somebody would get an access to this to me, I'd troll the hell out of it! People would talk about it for years after!". That's just how it is, you can't expect 100% of people to be mature, civilized and well-behaved.
Wouldn't this mean the experiment has been a success? The experiment is "... based around the idea that no single voice can represent the country, so a slew of guest Swedish curators will do the best job to portray the national character."
Take a cross section of any society and you're going to get people of all kinds, including people like Sonja.
Take a cross section of any society and you're going to get people of all kinds, including people like Sonja.
The Mashable writer might just be a bit sensitive, I like the Sweden account (and follow other similar ones). Users seem to be free to talk about all sorts of sensitive topics without problem. To me, this week is just an off-week, where I am less interested in the person but will be sticking with it.
Professional trolls are not part of any society
Meanwhile in Norway http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/
I was trying really hard to work some sort of joke about Norwegian trolls into this Swedish trolling story.
If anyone reading this is on the fence about watching the linked film, I would be honored to nudge you to the "yes, watch it!" side.
If anyone reading this is on the fence about watching the linked film, I would be honored to nudge you to the "yes, watch it!" side.
I suggest listening to talk radio for a bit. There are more than a few professional trolls out there.
Apart from the really good ones, who we put on tv.
I don't see what's the big fuss here. Maybe a few edgy comments, but nothing "painfully awry". I would say kudos to the organizers for their trust in their fellow citizens to speak out freely without censorship.
Btw, her profile [1] on the project's page is up and straight about her agenda (and her character, as well): "I’m gonna tweet about my thoughts and being me, about having children and living my life and what not."
There may be a day when we become so politically-correct about everything that we can't speak out minds anymore.
[1] http://curatorsofsweden.com/
Btw, her profile [1] on the project's page is up and straight about her agenda (and her character, as well): "I’m gonna tweet about my thoughts and being me, about having children and living my life and what not."
There may be a day when we become so politically-correct about everything that we can't speak out minds anymore.
[1] http://curatorsofsweden.com/
You don't think the string of tweets starting with
"Whats the fuzz with jews. You can't even see if a person is a jew, unless you see their penises, and even if you do, you can't be sure!?"
is "painfully awry" for a twitter account intended to promote tourism to Sweden? What about the tweet about the "hungry gay with aids"?
I doubt those encourage anyone who's jewish or homosexual to visit Sweden.
"Whats the fuzz with jews. You can't even see if a person is a jew, unless you see their penises, and even if you do, you can't be sure!?"
is "painfully awry" for a twitter account intended to promote tourism to Sweden? What about the tweet about the "hungry gay with aids"?
I doubt those encourage anyone who's jewish or homosexual to visit Sweden.
I think she did awesome, even I fell for it.
First she says that jews are just like other people. Woah! That's some weird thinking!
She photoshops Freddy Mercury (who was gay and had aids) into a picture with food calling it "hungry gay with aids" which you might call vulgar maybe (just as the urine picture caption) but how is it wrong?
She keeps doing a few more bad jokes.
I think if she wanted to troll she did a really great job! People are up in arms about a few harmless comments and pictures, I definitely do applaud her:)
First she says that jews are just like other people. Woah! That's some weird thinking!
She photoshops Freddy Mercury (who was gay and had aids) into a picture with food calling it "hungry gay with aids" which you might call vulgar maybe (just as the urine picture caption) but how is it wrong?
She keeps doing a few more bad jokes.
I think if she wanted to troll she did a really great job! People are up in arms about a few harmless comments and pictures, I definitely do applaud her:)
What's "painfully awry" about thinking jews are no different from other people apart from the circumcision thing?
Those won't encourage or discourage any jewish people to visit Sweden. Because jewish people, like pretty much any other people, mostly not idiots and understand that stupid trolling by one person doesn't mean anything and does not reflect on the whole country. It is mildly annoying to read this, it is even more annoying to understand "omg, I just spent 10 minutes of my time on this crap", but that's it.
I guess that's why it's an experiment. Tourist boards are driven by marketing and PR types. It's refreshingly transparent to hear from - apparently - real people... you see the country from their viewpoint.
My interpretation is that she says jews are normal people. Is that really offensive? Why? Because she mentions that a fraction of jews have a penis?
Seems Sonja did a good job. We're talking about Sweden, right? How often does that topic come up in daily conversation for non-Swedish people?
My troll-dar isn't as sharp as it used to be as I get older, but it seems quite likely that they've just got a troll on their hands here from reading the Tweets.
Either way, anything like this was a time bomb waiting to go off if there wasn't any vetting process at all.
Either way, anything like this was a time bomb waiting to go off if there wasn't any vetting process at all.
She might be a copy cat of "hanna widerstedt" who got really "famous" in Sweden after saying similar things on YouTube. After that she got featured in several magazines and in Big Brothers as well and got her 5 seconds of fame!
I have known a few Swedes and have owned 4 Saabs and none have them have ever behaved like this. There's always 5% of a population that can make the other 95% hide in embarrassment.
Really? My last Saab was a great car, but showed an odd racial insensitivity sometimes.
Hmmm ... there was a period when my car seemed to dislike any cars in front of it at red-lights. Once we realized the turbo's waste gate was stuck closed, we sent it to sensitivity training and it's behaved perfectly ever since.
Cant blame Americans for being uptight. You'd never understand Sweden's freedom of speech :P
I see nothing wrong with this.
As a Swede, I might be biased -- but given that Stephen Colbert has asked to be an "Artificial Swedener"[1][2], I'd say it's a roaring success!
[1] https://twitter.com/StephenAtHome/status/212753977018810368 [2] http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/41519...
[1] https://twitter.com/StephenAtHome/status/212753977018810368 [2] http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/41519...
The NY Times article was written in TROLLHATTAN. I thought that's a joke too. It seems it's a real city.
I think this is the funniest thing i've ever seen. Troll or not, this is hilarious
Yeah! She's still tweeting some hilarious stuff on that account.
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I'm from Sweden, and I have never heard of this before.
You must have missed "hanna widerstedt" :)
Indeed, it seems that way. The world of bloggers is to me, as we would say in Sweden, ointressant.
Can't emphasize enough: it is remarkable for Sweden to hand real power over to individual citizens. Totally wonderful. While she is acting like a git, she is also not the polished PR machine that most countries feel the need to use to present themselves. Humor or not, her words are real.
I really, really applaud Sweden and would love to see something similar in the States. I have no doubt that the USA version would put the spotlight on some really horrible sentiments - but again, that is what is real. It's just like Borat, highlighting whitewashed racism that is ever-present in the US. In the end, it's a very good thing to just be honest.
I really, really applaud Sweden and would love to see something similar in the States. I have no doubt that the USA version would put the spotlight on some really horrible sentiments - but again, that is what is real. It's just like Borat, highlighting whitewashed racism that is ever-present in the US. In the end, it's a very good thing to just be honest.
There's a fine line between master troll and dimwitted psycho. Which is she?
I think she actually fits into a third category ... those who perceive themselves to be Internet personalities.
These are so good they cannot be real (humourous).They read like a Sacha Baron Cohen (Ali G, Borat) film script. Here I thought the Swedes were the more intelligent inhabitants. Sonja has proved us right/wrong? Can't wait to see this new meme go viral.
That's just bizarre --off the rails. It's not as if she has the excuse of being an actor and could blame this whole episode on being high or coming down hard off of something.
Pity the kids. What a mom.
Pity the kids. What a mom.
The guy is definitely getting questioned by authorities at an airport if he comes to the USA.
But I can see how an american/international audience wouldn't get the joke.