Was Vincent van Gogh color blind? (2012)(smithsonianmag.com)
smithsonianmag.com
Was Vincent van Gogh color blind? (2012)
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/was-vincent-van-gogh-color-blind-it-sure-looks-like-it-27576085/
108 comments
There's a genuine military use for colour-blind people.
They're better at detecting camouflage than trichromats.
They're better at detecting camouflage than trichromats.
Tell me about it. During basic training (1983) the sgt was introducing us to camouflage.
Something like "Out there are twenty soldiers hiding and you can't see them!"
Me: Raises hand, "Permission to speak? Yeah, there's one there, and there, and over there..."
Sgt: "Your colorblind, right? Drop and start pushing the ground down until I'm tired."
Something like "Out there are twenty soldiers hiding and you can't see them!"
Me: Raises hand, "Permission to speak? Yeah, there's one there, and there, and over there..."
Sgt: "Your colorblind, right? Drop and start pushing the ground down until I'm tired."
> Drop and start pushing the ground down until I'm tired.
I've never understood, and feel I have no intuition for, responses like this. What's the value added by this? Any excuse for exercise? Internalising that the sergeant is always right even when they're wrong? Or is "permission to speak" just a Hollywood affectation not really present in the military?
I've never understood, and feel I have no intuition for, responses like this. What's the value added by this? Any excuse for exercise? Internalising that the sergeant is always right even when they're wrong? Or is "permission to speak" just a Hollywood affectation not really present in the military?
You have a very good moral compass for perceived injustice. But theres nothing wrong with someone in the militairy doing push ups. There IS something wrong with questioning authority because you can see campuflaged soldiers, which was probaly the training other recruits were supposed to be doing but some smartass with good colorblind eyes ruined it for them.
Technically, soldiers absolutely are (legally) required to question authority in some cases (e.g. if they think an order is immoral, like participating in a genocide or murdering civilians or torture). In practice it provides more utility to stomp out any desire to challenge or question authority though because if a soldier spends time critically thinking about an order they're given, that's time they're not spending being highly alert or implementing that order.
You are correct. Any excuse for exercise and dominance (sgt is always right) in basic training.
The "permission to speak" is to train discipline and to prevent chaos. After basic, it pretty much goes away except in outstanding circumstances (eg, addressing a very high ranking individual).
The "permission to speak" is to train discipline and to prevent chaos. After basic, it pretty much goes away except in outstanding circumstances (eg, addressing a very high ranking individual).
Basic training filters out anyone who would object - same reason there are so few smart people in the police.
Smart people don’t even make it to police basic training. If the application test shows you are intelligent, you will be rejected from joining the police. At least in the USA.
Basic training filters out the stupid: those who cannot understand that there is a proper time and place to be a talkative smartass. Basic training is about learning, not showing off. Anyone who cannot check thier pride, check thier attitude, for a few weeks will not make a good soldier.
I guess it also filters out people who would object to gleefully torturing people in the most inhumane way possible [1]
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone...
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone...
Yes. Basic isnt like the movies: a quick few weeks afterwhich one is a soldier. Basic is only the very start of training. More advanced stuff comes later at more trade-specific training. Basic is deinitely not the place to test potential soldiers for such problems.
And after pushing the ground I hope he made you the designated camouflaged-enemy spotter? This is a really cool superpower to have.
I honestly had no idea that this was a thing, but I guess it makes sense; colour blind people do see colour, but they see it in a different way, which could be leveraged to spot things people with normal vision don't.
I guess that also means that every squad should have one colour blind person, and camouflage should be designed to foil colour blind people too. Of course there are different kinds of colourblindness, which makes things more complicated.
I honestly had no idea that this was a thing, but I guess it makes sense; colour blind people do see colour, but they see it in a different way, which could be leveraged to spot things people with normal vision don't.
I guess that also means that every squad should have one colour blind person, and camouflage should be designed to foil colour blind people too. Of course there are different kinds of colourblindness, which makes things more complicated.
Yes, designated for that and night patrols (I used to have spectacular low-light vision).
I lost a link to the study, but I read somewhere that color blindness is a feature that lets you see colors better during twilight, and lion share of it is registered in folks in more northern population (white and mostly men) where average twilight is the longest.
But not in the trade for which I had applied. Any trade involving extensive maps/charts, and everything associated with aircraft, are usually closed to those suffering common forms of colorblindness.
Haha - I have an opposite experience. When i finally went to MEPS i found out i was colored blind. I had gone my whole life without doing any of those colored charts. Sometimes a dark red would look black, sometimes a blue and purple looked very similiar but i never really thought anything of it.
Turns out it disqualified me for around 70% of all jobs in the Air Force. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise because of the jobs left, they were the likes of Computer Systems programming, contracting, intellegence, etc. It made sure i wasn't going to be working in some warehouse doing electrical, or gaurding some gate as security forces.
Turns out it disqualified me for around 70% of all jobs in the Air Force. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise because of the jobs left, they were the likes of Computer Systems programming, contracting, intellegence, etc. It made sure i wasn't going to be working in some warehouse doing electrical, or gaurding some gate as security forces.
I have done that book during an eye test - or at least a similar one. I could read the numbers on maybe the first five pages, then nothing... Optician flipped to the last 4-5 pages and asked me to try again, I could read those numbers! :-(
I would describe myself as a sort of green/brown colour blind - at least I know which colours cause me issues.
I would describe myself as a sort of green/brown colour blind - at least I know which colours cause me issues.
The vast majority of people that are colour blind primarily have trouble with green/red. I would say green/brown falls under that category.
> "No. You are done. Only people who are colorblind see numbers in the last pages."
Do they have special ink and printers for color blind/ tetrachromats?
Do they have special ink and printers for color blind/ tetrachromats?
If the dotted image has a mixture of different hues and brightnesses, your brain only sees noise, while a color blind person doesn't see the different hues. The number is shaped only in brightnesses arrangement.
However, I've been told my color blind friends that they don't work so well depending on your type.
However, I've been told my color blind friends that they don't work so well depending on your type.
For years, I had a poster which looked like your average Ishihara test in my office - an assortment of random dots. If you had normal colour vision, that is.
If you were the right kind of deficient, though, it read 'Color vision? We don't need color vision where we are going!'
If you were the right kind of deficient, though, it read 'Color vision? We don't need color vision where we are going!'
No need for that.
Basically, you add noise to the picture that can only be picked up by non-colour-blind people.
Basically, you add noise to the picture that can only be picked up by non-colour-blind people.
Can a non-colorblind see the numbers in dim light, when color vision is "turned off"?
There are multiple versions of colour-blindness.
Most colour-blind people can still see colours. Only a small fraction is reduced to greyscale.
Those pictures would likely be calibrated to the different versions of colour-blindness.
Your idea might work for some pictures.
Most colour-blind people can still see colours. Only a small fraction is reduced to greyscale.
Those pictures would likely be calibrated to the different versions of colour-blindness.
Your idea might work for some pictures.
No.
The article just says "these 2 guys say Van Gogh was color blind". One of the links is 404, the other is in Japanese. And the article doesn't present any evidence.
I went to Van Gogh's Museum in Amsterdam last month. A color blind wouldn't be able to do what that guy did.
It is really a "seeing is believing" experience. Most photographies can't capture the very little nuances in color hues that you can only see in the real picture. The blue/white one with the cherries in blossom and the ones with the sunflowers are the perfect example of it.
The article just says "these 2 guys say Van Gogh was color blind". One of the links is 404, the other is in Japanese. And the article doesn't present any evidence.
I went to Van Gogh's Museum in Amsterdam last month. A color blind wouldn't be able to do what that guy did.
It is really a "seeing is believing" experience. Most photographies can't capture the very little nuances in color hues that you can only see in the real picture. The blue/white one with the cherries in blossom and the ones with the sunflowers are the perfect example of it.
I agree this article doesn't present any evidence for the question it poses, but it's ridiculous to say Van Gogh couldn't be color blind. Especially given your examples are not impacted by the most common forms of color blindness.
His pictures are full of subtle shades-play of every color.
I'd expect that even if he'd been totally blind, given the normal process of mixing paints on the palette before painting with them and that this is imprecise.
(Obviously I don't think he was totally blind, I'm only saying subtitles of colour aren't evidence of anything).
(Obviously I don't think he was totally blind, I'm only saying subtitles of colour aren't evidence of anything).
Completely agree. These articles seem at odds with how Van Gogh described colour in his letters:
> I am crazy about two colors: carmine and cobalt. Cobalt is a divine color and there is nothing so beautiful for creating atmosphere. Carmine is as warm and lively as wine… the same with emerald green.
> The Mediterranean has the color of mackerel, changeable I mean. You don’t always know if it is green or violet, you can’t even say it’s blue, because the next moment the changing reflection has taken on a tint of rose or gray.
> I am crazy about two colors: carmine and cobalt. Cobalt is a divine color and there is nothing so beautiful for creating atmosphere. Carmine is as warm and lively as wine… the same with emerald green.
> The Mediterranean has the color of mackerel, changeable I mean. You don’t always know if it is green or violet, you can’t even say it’s blue, because the next moment the changing reflection has taken on a tint of rose or gray.
I'm colorblind, and those two colors seem to be two of the most vibrant colors I experience. Cobalt being my all time favorite, and I see depth to it also as he describes.
In my opinion the best museum to see van Gogh is the Kröller-Müller museum. At the beginning of the 20th century the couple Kröller-Müller was the first to collect his works. They have all the best paintings. The van Gogh in Amsterdam got the second choice works.
I don’t agree with you that Van Gogh couldn’t have been colorblind but that museum is absolutely the best museum I’ve ever been to so yes anyone stumbling upon this comment should do yourselves a favor and patronize it at some point.
Vincent Van Gogh understood color so well that he made paintings that dissected the essence of our color perception. He was hanging with Seurat and Toulouse-Lautrec and Gaugin. He wrote thousands of letters, mostly about his paintings and the usage of color, and his painter friends wrote him back.
Quick excerpt of a letter to Theo:
"I still often run up against a blank wall when undertaking something, but all the same, the colours follow one another as if of their own accord, and taking a colour as the starting-point I see clearly in my mind’s eye what derives from it, and how one can get life into it.
Jules Dupré is like Delacroix in landscape, for what enormous diversity of mood he expressed in symphonies of colour.
Now a seascape, with the most delicate blue-greens and broken blue, and all sorts of pearly tones.
Then an autumn landscape with foliage from deep wine red to vivid green, from bright orange to dark havana, with yet more colours in the sky in greys, lilacs, blue, white, forming another contrast to the yellow leaves.
Then again a sunset in black, in violet, in fiery red.
Then again more capricious, like the corner of a garden by him that I saw and have never forgotten; black in the shadow, white in the sun, bright green, a fiery red, and then again a dark blue, a bituminous greenish brown and a light brownish yellow. Truly colours that can have quite a lot to say to one another."
Here's the most important part of that letter:
"Still, it doesn’t satisfy me. To my mind there’s far more behind not doing it in the local colour. True painters are the ones who don’t do it in the local colour — that was what Blanc and Delacroix discussed once."
At the time the impressionists were discovering that our color sense is counter-intuitive. They were developing methods of painting a color by using contrasts near a gray to imply the inverse color, etc. That's what he means by not "[doing] it in the local color."
You put red by gray and the gray looks green by contrast.
To look at those paintings and say "I guess he painted this way because he couldn't see the color right" is incredibly ignorant. His choices were deliberate and he documented them in excruciating detail.
Quick excerpt of a letter to Theo:
"I still often run up against a blank wall when undertaking something, but all the same, the colours follow one another as if of their own accord, and taking a colour as the starting-point I see clearly in my mind’s eye what derives from it, and how one can get life into it.
Jules Dupré is like Delacroix in landscape, for what enormous diversity of mood he expressed in symphonies of colour.
Now a seascape, with the most delicate blue-greens and broken blue, and all sorts of pearly tones.
Then an autumn landscape with foliage from deep wine red to vivid green, from bright orange to dark havana, with yet more colours in the sky in greys, lilacs, blue, white, forming another contrast to the yellow leaves.
Then again a sunset in black, in violet, in fiery red.
Then again more capricious, like the corner of a garden by him that I saw and have never forgotten; black in the shadow, white in the sun, bright green, a fiery red, and then again a dark blue, a bituminous greenish brown and a light brownish yellow. Truly colours that can have quite a lot to say to one another."
Here's the most important part of that letter:
"Still, it doesn’t satisfy me. To my mind there’s far more behind not doing it in the local colour. True painters are the ones who don’t do it in the local colour — that was what Blanc and Delacroix discussed once."
At the time the impressionists were discovering that our color sense is counter-intuitive. They were developing methods of painting a color by using contrasts near a gray to imply the inverse color, etc. That's what he means by not "[doing] it in the local color."
You put red by gray and the gray looks green by contrast.
To look at those paintings and say "I guess he painted this way because he couldn't see the color right" is incredibly ignorant. His choices were deliberate and he documented them in excruciating detail.
Look at the images in the japanese source.
They look incredible, and significantly more life-like in the simulated colorblind version compared to the regular version.
They look incredible, and significantly more life-like in the simulated colorblind version compared to the regular version.
I would have expected he was our go to example for possibility of human Tetrachromacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy
The link labelled as "seen some of van Gogh’s work in what he calls a color vision experience room" is a better link than the one labelled as "a number of striking examples of the master painter’s works reimagined"
thanks for saving us some precious time!
Is it me, or do the protanopia (top right) and deuteranopia (bottom left) images look identical? If I’m colour-blind this would be a weird way to find out.
All except the blue-yellow (bottom right) images look the same to me, in both examples. And van Gogh's 'Starry Night' 'filtered to simulate colour blindness' looks the same before as after. I am colour blind.
Now, if only someone could filter it to simulate non-colour-blindness for me, so I can see what they see!
Now, if only someone could filter it to simulate non-colour-blindness for me, so I can see what they see!
https://www.allaboutvision.com/conditions/color-blind-glasse...
allaboutvision.com/conditions/color-blind-glasses.htm
allaboutvision.com/conditions/color-blind-glasses.htm
I'm curious how well that can work, but not '$200 to $450' curious. I wonder how many people actually have enough of a problem with it to get these - it's not like you're suddenly going to be allowed to fly fighter jets after all.
I'm colorblind (strong deutan) and bought a pair of EnChroma sunglasses after trying out a simpler system that pretty much just used a combination of colored lenses (the lenses would have had to be two different colors and would basically look like 3D glasses).
Allegedly the EnChroma glasses work better the weaker your color deficiency is (i.e. they work worse the worse you already are at telling colors apart). For me there's a pronounced effect but it's mostly through shifting all colors more into violet and yellow.
Using them was the first time green LED traffic lights appeared "saturated" to me although yellow traffic lights appeared a bit darker than normal. A clear blue sky appears vibrant but with a noticeable violet tint. Flowers look neat as reds and purples "pop" in the same way pure blues and yellows do normally. I can tell whether lawns are healthy or dried out.
But they don't "fix" my color vision. Of course not. They can't add color where I'm physically unable to perceive it. They wouldn't allow me to pass most colorblindness tests or operate machinery that requires normal color vision. They can however modulate some parts of the visible spectrum so others stand out more. And they're really good at that.
I've had my EnChroma sunglasses for a few years now and I use them instead of regular sunglasses in most situations (except when I expect they might get damaged). I would probably buy them again. I considered buying regular EnChroma glasses but I've heard the effect isn't as strong and as I'm already not in the group benefiting the most, I worry the effect wouldn't be good enough to justify the price tag. YMMV.
EDIT: I'm fully aware of the dramatic reaction videos that made them popular all over social media for a while. I saw them after I found out about EnChroma and after I had already decided to give them a try but before I was able to do so. If anything, these videos made my experience of first using them more underwhelming. Yes, I could "see" purple in a different way than ever before, but knowing the reaction videos and knowing the person I was with knew them almost triggered a form of imposter syndrome because I simply didn't experience the overwhelming sensation the videos suggested I should perform.
Allegedly the EnChroma glasses work better the weaker your color deficiency is (i.e. they work worse the worse you already are at telling colors apart). For me there's a pronounced effect but it's mostly through shifting all colors more into violet and yellow.
Using them was the first time green LED traffic lights appeared "saturated" to me although yellow traffic lights appeared a bit darker than normal. A clear blue sky appears vibrant but with a noticeable violet tint. Flowers look neat as reds and purples "pop" in the same way pure blues and yellows do normally. I can tell whether lawns are healthy or dried out.
But they don't "fix" my color vision. Of course not. They can't add color where I'm physically unable to perceive it. They wouldn't allow me to pass most colorblindness tests or operate machinery that requires normal color vision. They can however modulate some parts of the visible spectrum so others stand out more. And they're really good at that.
I've had my EnChroma sunglasses for a few years now and I use them instead of regular sunglasses in most situations (except when I expect they might get damaged). I would probably buy them again. I considered buying regular EnChroma glasses but I've heard the effect isn't as strong and as I'm already not in the group benefiting the most, I worry the effect wouldn't be good enough to justify the price tag. YMMV.
EDIT: I'm fully aware of the dramatic reaction videos that made them popular all over social media for a while. I saw them after I found out about EnChroma and after I had already decided to give them a try but before I was able to do so. If anything, these videos made my experience of first using them more underwhelming. Yes, I could "see" purple in a different way than ever before, but knowing the reaction videos and knowing the person I was with knew them almost triggered a form of imposter syndrome because I simply didn't experience the overwhelming sensation the videos suggested I should perform.
Although I suppose if you need prescription glasses anyway, why not.
Fortunately I don't need short/long corrective lenses, so there's no way I'd wear glasses just for improving colour perception a bit. Even if they were free (I'd try them as a gimmick, sure, I just doubt I'd want to wear them regularly).
Fortunately I don't need short/long corrective lenses, so there's no way I'd wear glasses just for improving colour perception a bit. Even if they were free (I'd try them as a gimmick, sure, I just doubt I'd want to wear them regularly).
There are multiple apps that claim to do it using the phone camera… but I’ve never tried them, so no recommendation.
Those images, top right bottom left, actually look really cool. They appear sepia toned, which is a fairly common filter effect that invokes nostalgia. It's almost neat that you might see everything that way.
(I'm sure it doesn't always feel that way)
(I'm sure it doesn't always feel that way)
Sepia looks different to normal to me too, so no, but that's interesting!
We made this once:
https://www.vischeck.com/daltonize/
But no one seemed particularly interested. Let me know if you are...
https://www.vischeck.com/daltonize/
But no one seemed particularly interested. Let me know if you are...
Blue-yellow? The bottom right image of the parakeet appears to be black, blue, gray, and white, with a blush of pink near the beak.
Yes, sorry, I meant the one simulating tritanopia - blue-yellow colour-blindness - not that the image itself was blue & yellow.
(It's just greyscale to me fwiw, as someone non-tritanopically (I've never been sure what, nor the optician, doesn't seem to be cleanly proto or deuteranomoly, perhaps some combination?) colour-blind viewing it filtered to simulate that. On some hand-wavey high level I lack the ability to see what's left after what I can see has been removed, I suppose.)
(It's just greyscale to me fwiw, as someone non-tritanopically (I've never been sure what, nor the optician, doesn't seem to be cleanly proto or deuteranomoly, perhaps some combination?) colour-blind viewing it filtered to simulate that. On some hand-wavey high level I lack the ability to see what's left after what I can see has been removed, I suppose.)
It's because the cone cells connected to those variants of colorblindness have very similar sensitivities to wavelengths. Check out this diagram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell#/media/File:Cone-fun...
With protanopia, the L cone cell is affected. For deuteranopia, it's the M cone cell.
With protanopia, the L cone cell is affected. For deuteranopia, it's the M cone cell.
My college roommate found out when I showed him a joke tshirt with a message in the circle of dots. He thought the joke was that there was nothing there and I was messing with him, then spent an hour on Wikipedia figuring out exactly what kind of color blindness he had.
The deuteranopia is very slightly more orange in some squares.
The visibility probably depends a lot on your display color calibration and how fil spectrum your ambient light is. Incandescent "soft white" and modern imitations, common in household lighting, is usually yellow/orange.
The visibility probably depends a lot on your display color calibration and how fil spectrum your ambient light is. Incandescent "soft white" and modern imitations, common in household lighting, is usually yellow/orange.
I overlayed them in Gimp as layers and did A/B comparison with other people and neither could detect a change.
Thanks for doing the "obscure science"!
Perhaps it was variations in my lighting or optical illusion effects.
They look identical to me too, and I'm 100% certain I have full colour vision.
This is more a test for reading-blindness than color-blindness :D
Same here, and I just took an online test to verify.
They look very clearly different to me, but the difference isn't big. I made a gif of the starry night images: https://p.mort.coffee/jR5.gif
To me, one of the images clearly has a yellow color where the other image has a green-ish color.
To me, one of the images clearly has a yellow color where the other image has a green-ish color.
It took me a while to see anything other than resizing - but yes, the larger one is ever so slightly greener to me too (I am colour blind, couldn't see a difference side by side).
And I watched the gif prior to reading your description of the difference - I experience this strange phenomenon sometimes whereby the colour of something (or the presence of different colours) morphs in front of my eyes, after someone describes it or claims that it's there. (Red and green bars on a chart for example might all be the same, then someone says 'blah blah in the second red bar' and all of a sudden I can distinguish them, see the red or green that wasn't there before. Or a bridge in London that suddenly looked green when I was told it was called Green Bridge.) I wish it was easier to learn more about it, because I find that kind of fascinating (and mildly 'scary'!) - must surely mean it's not just about the eyes, but my brain is smoothing over some rough edges as though small red/green differences are assumed to be wrong, but if someone confirms them then the parameters are altered.
And I watched the gif prior to reading your description of the difference - I experience this strange phenomenon sometimes whereby the colour of something (or the presence of different colours) morphs in front of my eyes, after someone describes it or claims that it's there. (Red and green bars on a chart for example might all be the same, then someone says 'blah blah in the second red bar' and all of a sudden I can distinguish them, see the red or green that wasn't there before. Or a bridge in London that suddenly looked green when I was told it was called Green Bridge.) I wish it was easier to learn more about it, because I find that kind of fascinating (and mildly 'scary'!) - must surely mean it's not just about the eyes, but my brain is smoothing over some rough edges as though small red/green differences are assumed to be wrong, but if someone confirms them then the parameters are altered.
Yeah, sorry about the resizing and shifting. The two images in the article are different sizes (and aspect ratios!), and I couldn't find a good way to fix it up in gimp without either making everything blurry (cubic interpolation) or cutting out rows and columns (nearest neighbor interpolation).
Your description of how you see colors morphing once they're described is interesting! The brain definitely does a whole lot of complex visual processing which we don't notice, such as filtering out the big hole in your retina which nerves go through, and retroactively replacing the memory of your eyes moving with what you see after they've moved. And your peripheral vision is almost entirely grayscale, yet the brain fills in the colors it expects to be there so it doesn't feel grayscale. It doesn't surprise me that when color information is missing due to color blindness, it will fill in the missing color information from other sources.
Your description of how you see colors morphing once they're described is interesting! The brain definitely does a whole lot of complex visual processing which we don't notice, such as filtering out the big hole in your retina which nerves go through, and retroactively replacing the memory of your eyes moving with what you see after they've moved. And your peripheral vision is almost entirely grayscale, yet the brain fills in the colors it expects to be there so it doesn't feel grayscale. It doesn't surprise me that when color information is missing due to color blindness, it will fill in the missing color information from other sources.
I’m color-blind, too. I can see only the resizing difference in the gif; the colors look identical to me.
I haven’t ever experienced the reperception-by-suggestion phenomenon that you describe. But I do think that, when I was young, I gradually became a bit better at distinguishing and remembering colors than I had been as a child, perhaps because having been told that I was color-blind made me pay more attention to colors. “Purple” was a mystery to me when I was ten; by the age of twenty, I could usually distinguish it from blue.
I haven’t ever experienced the reperception-by-suggestion phenomenon that you describe. But I do think that, when I was young, I gradually became a bit better at distinguishing and remembering colors than I had been as a child, perhaps because having been told that I was color-blind made me pay more attention to colors. “Purple” was a mystery to me when I was ten; by the age of twenty, I could usually distinguish it from blue.
I am not color-blind, but there are shades of colors that, depending either on light source, what other colors are around, or just how I'm thinking about what I'm looking at, will switch back and forth. I can pick out purple from violet, but I have had some clothing that will either appear purple or grey depending on how I am thinking about it (really). Similarly, I have a hoodie that is a timber green that at times appears brown, and a pair of corduroys that are brown that at times appear vaguely purple. I am nearly certain these shifting hue effects of the dyes were intended by the manufacturers.
It's extremely subtle to me - the bottom horizontal stream gets very very slightly greener when it gets bigger. I noticed it first because the starry swirl thing above it, bottom right of the big black thing, seemed to change shape as though the actual brush strokes were different, bit more of a classic star shape emerges. But it's extremely slight, more like the 'what a colourblind person would see' filtering is imperfect than that I can actually see the original.
Parent was talking about the "protanopia (top right) and deuteranopia (bottom left)" cell division pictures, not the Van Gogh on top.
Oh, sorry! I should've read more carefully.
Those do appear to be literally identical to my eyes as well. I made a similar gif of those: https://p.mort.coffee/UIt.gif -- I can only see the noise shifting around a little bit. And GIMP agrees; the RGB histogram looks incredibly similar between the two images (https://p.mort.coffee/tn8.png vs https://p.mort.coffee/t3z.png).
Those do appear to be literally identical to my eyes as well. I made a similar gif of those: https://p.mort.coffee/UIt.gif -- I can only see the noise shifting around a little bit. And GIMP agrees; the RGB histogram looks incredibly similar between the two images (https://p.mort.coffee/tn8.png vs https://p.mort.coffee/t3z.png).
Given one of them is labelled as being a simulation of blue/yellow colourblindness while the blue/yellow in the original image look very distinct, I suspect there's just been an error in producing the composite there.
They're talking about the image with the 4 versions of the call-divisions. They top right and bottom left there look identical to me too
If you were colour-blind, the full-colour image (top left) would look nearly identical to one of the other three.
If you were totally colour-blind (by far the rarest sort), I suppose it would.
It looks identical to both protonomaly and deuteranomoly simulations to me. I am colour-blind, but not 'totally' if you mean grey-scale only - just that certain shades merge together/look like the wrong colour.
I guess by totally you mean the strongest case of a particular kind of colour-blindness, not achromatopsia. Fair enough, I could have said similar. I just wanted to clarify which image is the one they should compare against.
However, if colour-blindness is not so strong for most people, then these articles should depict a lesser form of colour-blindness as well, to more accurately convey the experience. I don't think I've ever seen a post on colour-blindness that did.
However, if colour-blindness is not so strong for most people, then these articles should depict a lesser form of colour-blindness as well, to more accurately convey the experience. I don't think I've ever seen a post on colour-blindness that did.
seems normal: different mechanisms creating almost the same symptoms. a few different sources from googling protanopia vs deuteranopia:
> Why is protanopia like deuteranopia? Red and green colorblind deficiencies (deuteranopia and protanopia) are very similar, as these cones often overlap. Therefore, protanopia and deuteranopia can often eliminate the ability to see both red and green, showing the world in vibrant blues and yellows, as well as very similar browns, oranges, reds, and greens.
> People with deuteranomaly and protanomaly are often incorrectly diagnosed collectively as ‘red-green’ colour blind because both types generally have difficulty distinguishing between reds, greens, browns and oranges. They also commonly confuse different types of blue and purple hues and many other colour combinations.
> The answer is that dichromatic colorblindness is imitated by assuming two of the three types of receptors receive the same light input. In deuteranopia, for example, the assumption is that the neural receptors expecting medium (M) and long (L) wavelength light are both receiving signals from cones with long (L) pigments. This results in the yellow you noticed. Note also that deuteranopia and protanopia don’t result in exactly the same hue of yellow because of the difference between their peak sensitivities. In one case it is assumed all signals are coming from L pigments and in the other all from M pigments.
> Why is protanopia like deuteranopia? Red and green colorblind deficiencies (deuteranopia and protanopia) are very similar, as these cones often overlap. Therefore, protanopia and deuteranopia can often eliminate the ability to see both red and green, showing the world in vibrant blues and yellows, as well as very similar browns, oranges, reds, and greens.
> People with deuteranomaly and protanomaly are often incorrectly diagnosed collectively as ‘red-green’ colour blind because both types generally have difficulty distinguishing between reds, greens, browns and oranges. They also commonly confuse different types of blue and purple hues and many other colour combinations.
> The answer is that dichromatic colorblindness is imitated by assuming two of the three types of receptors receive the same light input. In deuteranopia, for example, the assumption is that the neural receptors expecting medium (M) and long (L) wavelength light are both receiving signals from cones with long (L) pigments. This results in the yellow you noticed. Note also that deuteranopia and protanopia don’t result in exactly the same hue of yellow because of the difference between their peak sensitivities. In one case it is assumed all signals are coming from L pigments and in the other all from M pigments.
I found a setting in chrome the other day that allows you to simulate the 3 types mentioned in the article.
Seems like there is more variation in chromes filters than the ones shown in the article.
BTW they look the same to me too.
In chrome: console > rendering > emulate vision deficiencies
Seems like there is more variation in chromes filters than the ones shown in the article.
BTW they look the same to me too.
In chrome: console > rendering > emulate vision deficiencies
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yup the same to me..
I even overlayed the two images over each other and flicked back and forth between them.. they are identical
I even overlayed the two images over each other and flicked back and forth between them.. they are identical
Yeah - it looks identical to me too. I already know I am colour-blind but not exactly sure what type.
They are identical to me. I have never showed signs of color blindness in such tests.
They look identical to me too, but I know that I can perceive RGB hues.
The other pictures are better for comparing this.
Yep, looks like they are the same.
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I'm color blind, and painting and picking colors was always a frustrating experience. I remember as a kid accidentally picking green olives color for painting something brown, and having a confused teacher asking me what am I doing.
It should be very obvious that a color blind person painted something, he'd mix up greens and reds and browns in ways that look strange. Around brown it should be the most obvious, look for olive green mixed in brown. I obviously can't do it myself tho.
It should be very obvious that a color blind person painted something, he'd mix up greens and reds and browns in ways that look strange. Around brown it should be the most obvious, look for olive green mixed in brown. I obviously can't do it myself tho.
What happened here? This was submitted a few days ago, but shows 5 hours. My other comment is three hours old. I was sleeping at that time.
The article went through the "second chance pool", and the timestamp was changed. To make this less jarring, the timestamps for the comments are "relativized". More details can be found among Dan's comments here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
Changing all the timestamps into lies is annoying and obnoxious. I makes everyone feel deja vu about "new" comments that aren't.
Apparently one of the moderators revived this thread? I remember reading this same thread a few days ago as well.
Hello! We've been trying to reach you about your time machine's extended warranty.
Not sure what exactly happened, but if you search for this post through algolia, it shows the post being a few days old.
Not sure what exactly happened, but if you search for this post through algolia, it shows the post being a few days old.
Color Blind is an annoying term that needs to die. It doesn't happen so much anymore as I and those around me get older, but when i would say i'm colored blind they would take it at face value.
"You can't see any color at all?!?"
Then i'd have to back track and say "No the word should be "Color Different/ difficient". I have 3.5 cones that choose where color lies on my spectrum, where you have 4."
One might say, i don't get the various hues and brightness of color in losing that .5, but i would say i see entirely different colors than you. There's no way hues and brightness can lead to the conversations i've had about whether that color is red or green, blue or purple, yellow or green.
What's funny is there is almost no way to truely understand the difference in consciouss awareness of the world, even as something as simple as color.
"You can't see any color at all?!?"
Then i'd have to back track and say "No the word should be "Color Different/ difficient". I have 3.5 cones that choose where color lies on my spectrum, where you have 4."
One might say, i don't get the various hues and brightness of color in losing that .5, but i would say i see entirely different colors than you. There's no way hues and brightness can lead to the conversations i've had about whether that color is red or green, blue or purple, yellow or green.
What's funny is there is almost no way to truely understand the difference in consciouss awareness of the world, even as something as simple as color.
I use an analogy with perfect pitch to illustrate colour-blindness to those with regular colour vision.
People with perfect pitch can be played a note on a piano, and identify it sight-unseen. "That's a C-sharp", they'll say confidently. Most others can tell if a note is higher or lower than another, or can pick an interval.
Regular colour vision is perfect pitch for colours. Most folks can identify a blue or a green in isolation, but some like me can only see relationships between colours (one is "bluer" or "greener" than another).
People with perfect pitch can be played a note on a piano, and identify it sight-unseen. "That's a C-sharp", they'll say confidently. Most others can tell if a note is higher or lower than another, or can pick an interval.
Regular colour vision is perfect pitch for colours. Most folks can identify a blue or a green in isolation, but some like me can only see relationships between colours (one is "bluer" or "greener" than another).
This is about his fading pigments. There are letters of his where he acknowledges that he uses bad quality paints that are likely to fade, which is why he uses stronger colors than he knows he should.
The linked article (which has very few pictures, this link to work by the original researcher has much more: https://asada0.tumblr.com/post/11517603099/the-day-i-saw-van... ) is about something else, namely a form of color blindness that distorts your vision in ways that are a lot less obvious than the way more common red/green or even blue/yellow color blindness.
I’m not an expert, of course, but to my layman’s eyes the “corrected” images look much, much better than the u corrected ones (you’ll need to see them indoors, however, on a reasonably good screen, to truly appreciate the difference). Uncorrected van Gogh’s work always strikes me as flat, lifeless and therefore amateurish. The corrected ones have much more depth and therefore, while garish, strike me as much more competent.
The linked article (which has very few pictures, this link to work by the original researcher has much more: https://asada0.tumblr.com/post/11517603099/the-day-i-saw-van... ) is about something else, namely a form of color blindness that distorts your vision in ways that are a lot less obvious than the way more common red/green or even blue/yellow color blindness.
I’m not an expert, of course, but to my layman’s eyes the “corrected” images look much, much better than the u corrected ones (you’ll need to see them indoors, however, on a reasonably good screen, to truly appreciate the difference). Uncorrected van Gogh’s work always strikes me as flat, lifeless and therefore amateurish. The corrected ones have much more depth and therefore, while garish, strike me as much more competent.
The major effect is excessive green in the originals, which becomes a shade of yellow in the adjusted versions, which fits into the context.
I'd like to see a follow-up that uses pigment analysis to identify exactly where that green is used and how much, and similate modifying it.
I'd like to see a follow-up that uses pigment analysis to identify exactly where that green is used and how much, and similate modifying it.
I watched the Willem Dafoe movie (At Eternity's Gate) about van Gogh recently and there appear to be a few subtle hints at this theory of him as colorblind; a few scenes that show something off with his sense of color, without directly saying anything about it. It was rather interesting, which made me search for more on this topic, which took me to this article.
>colorblind
>red/green deficieny
choose one
>red/green deficieny
choose one
Is there any ailment they haven't tried retroactively diagnosing Van Gogh with?
HIV
Wait til you hear that Van Gogh is actually the person we know as William Shakespeare...
As the famous Albert Einstein quote goes: "there are many dubious diagnoses of van Gogh on the internet".
Covid-19, although it may just be a matter of time.
"Can't see any numbers? Your done."
"No! Give me a minute. I know I'm not colorblind."
"No. You are done. Only people who are colorblind see numbers in the last pages."
I had bent several creases in their book.