Show HN: Fun tool that cut my family and friends tech support time in half(itsupport.grammable.me)
itsupport.grammable.me
Show HN: Fun tool that cut my family and friends tech support time in half
http://itsupport.grammable.me/
225 comments
I used to work as an installer for a wireless-isp and we supported some very rural areas as well as an urban area. I typically did the urban area but I grew up in one of the very rural areas so I could appreciate how badly people wanted their internets out there.
At one point I had to service some of the rural areas when the installer for that area quit and had one service request that I was sure would be fixed by a simple power cycle but wasn't. "Are you sure you unplugged the right thing?" I asked, and "If I come all the way out there and power cycle it and it works I'll have to charge you, do you understand?" I warned, he understood but wasn't worried because he knew that wasn't it.
After a nearly 2 hour drive out into the utter boondocks, I go inside and check the POE injector, unplug it and plug it back in. 20 seconds later I check his internet through his own router: golden (or as golden as you can be over a waverider 900Mhz link). He had just been unplugging his own router and plugging it back in over and over. In retrospect I could have made him physically trace the power cord but there was still a good 10% chance the unit actually had a problem.
People in the rural areas were really nice about everything though, being on 56k until 2010 makes you appreciate whatever broadband you can get. He just laughed and got his checkbook, in the city people complained when you told them the bill an hour after telling them what the charge would be over the phone.
At one point I had to service some of the rural areas when the installer for that area quit and had one service request that I was sure would be fixed by a simple power cycle but wasn't. "Are you sure you unplugged the right thing?" I asked, and "If I come all the way out there and power cycle it and it works I'll have to charge you, do you understand?" I warned, he understood but wasn't worried because he knew that wasn't it.
After a nearly 2 hour drive out into the utter boondocks, I go inside and check the POE injector, unplug it and plug it back in. 20 seconds later I check his internet through his own router: golden (or as golden as you can be over a waverider 900Mhz link). He had just been unplugging his own router and plugging it back in over and over. In retrospect I could have made him physically trace the power cord but there was still a good 10% chance the unit actually had a problem.
People in the rural areas were really nice about everything though, being on 56k until 2010 makes you appreciate whatever broadband you can get. He just laughed and got his checkbook, in the city people complained when you told them the bill an hour after telling them what the charge would be over the phone.
Many years ago in my first job (1988) I was diagnosing a Unix printing problem on a machine remotely (dialed in via modems).
There was an IBM engineer on site who insisted it was a software problem - I was on the phone to him and he was getting rather annoyed with me and I asked the inevitable "Is it actually plugged into the power?" which got him very angry that I would have the cheek to suggest that he hadn't checked that.
Then the phone went silent for a bit and he said "Try now".
Power supply was plugged into the power but the power cable from the supply wasn't plugged into the printer.
Edit: I'm sure I've been the guilty party in similar scenarios myself a few times, though hopefully not more than once in any particular context.
There was an IBM engineer on site who insisted it was a software problem - I was on the phone to him and he was getting rather annoyed with me and I asked the inevitable "Is it actually plugged into the power?" which got him very angry that I would have the cheek to suggest that he hadn't checked that.
Then the phone went silent for a bit and he said "Try now".
Power supply was plugged into the power but the power cable from the supply wasn't plugged into the printer.
Edit: I'm sure I've been the guilty party in similar scenarios myself a few times, though hopefully not more than once in any particular context.
To give a story from a different field so that it's not all IT stories here:
When I served in the German army as a battle tank weapons systems front line mechanic I didn't know all the tricks of the tank crews from the start (obviously) - nor that they did have tricks that they used to get out of training exercises and to (our) fresh coffee.
One common trick was to turn all the dials for brightness and contrast for the passive heat-sensor (night vision) all the way down. Then they told their commanding officer they had to go to the "Inst" (German "Instandhaltung" = maintenance depmt., in our case right behind the battle field - with power generator and attached coffee maker) because their screen had gone out. Which was quite important
The first time I went to such a tank I fumbled around for a few minutes, not finding anything, before admitting defeat. I called in a more senior colleague of mine. He went in, turned up the dials and that was all, case closed.
It was sooo embarrassing (to me, I don't think the other people gave it much thought) - that's the reason I still remember it even though it's been 16 years or so by now.
When I served in the German army as a battle tank weapons systems front line mechanic I didn't know all the tricks of the tank crews from the start (obviously) - nor that they did have tricks that they used to get out of training exercises and to (our) fresh coffee.
One common trick was to turn all the dials for brightness and contrast for the passive heat-sensor (night vision) all the way down. Then they told their commanding officer they had to go to the "Inst" (German "Instandhaltung" = maintenance depmt., in our case right behind the battle field - with power generator and attached coffee maker) because their screen had gone out. Which was quite important
The first time I went to such a tank I fumbled around for a few minutes, not finding anything, before admitting defeat. I called in a more senior colleague of mine. He went in, turned up the dials and that was all, case closed.
It was sooo embarrassing (to me, I don't think the other people gave it much thought) - that's the reason I still remember it even though it's been 16 years or so by now.
In 1984 I was a PC instructor at a large paper company and I was called up to the 23rd floor to fix a senior vice president's PC. He stood there while I worked on it. It would not power up. I looked around the back of the desk and the PC was unplugged.
I then carefully took off the case cover and removed all the cards and cleaned the contacts and put them back in. I assembled the PC, plugged it in and it booted.
I did not want to tell a senior VP that his PC wasn't working because he didn't check to see if it was plugged in.
Apple did that on the iPod manuals. They wouldn't say "make sure the lock button is unlocked" (because duh, of course it's unlocked), they would say "turn the button to the lock and then the unlock position".
Yes, onboarding is a pain.
Once I thought it's because software is too complicated, but it seems every time I lower the entry barrier, people lower their opinion about what is a problem.
What I don't understand is, that even professionals turn their brain out when setting up a system of any kind.
When I have to go to a customer and need to set some stuff up, I ensure that I can complete that task without the help of others. If some unexpected happens, I write it down at some central place and consult it the next time.
But some people just head out every time without thinking or planning.
Once I thought it's because software is too complicated, but it seems every time I lower the entry barrier, people lower their opinion about what is a problem.
What I don't understand is, that even professionals turn their brain out when setting up a system of any kind.
When I have to go to a customer and need to set some stuff up, I ensure that I can complete that task without the help of others. If some unexpected happens, I write it down at some central place and consult it the next time.
But some people just head out every time without thinking or planning.
> it seems every time I lower the entry barrier, people lower their opinion about what is a problem.
Exactly as they ought to! Rising standards are a much-to-be-desired effect. Of course, that doesn't always mean contacting the support staff to solve problems, but it DOES mean no longer accepting minor problems that used be a normal part of how we operated but which now can be eliminated with minor effort.
Exactly as they ought to! Rising standards are a much-to-be-desired effect. Of course, that doesn't always mean contacting the support staff to solve problems, but it DOES mean no longer accepting minor problems that used be a normal part of how we operated but which now can be eliminated with minor effort.
I'm totally with you on the rising standards.
But some people are just... I don't know, you just can't catch up with them.
I few days ago a friend of mine quoted something that sums it all up: "Imagine the average person. Now imagine that 50% of the population is dumber"
But some people are just... I don't know, you just can't catch up with them.
I few days ago a friend of mine quoted something that sums it all up: "Imagine the average person. Now imagine that 50% of the population is dumber"
When you start looking at the world with that kind of bleakness, it makes it hard to gain empathy for the people who use the things you build.
What you don't see on the other side is the guy using your software that was just stuck in a traffic jam for an hour, or hasn't had a solid night of sleep in three weeks due to his newborn, etc. The last thing they want to do is sit down and learn how to use your software that so-and-so from that other department insisted be rolled out across the company.
You have to excuse your customers for not learning things in earnest. It's part of your job to make that as easy as possible for them.
What you don't see on the other side is the guy using your software that was just stuck in a traffic jam for an hour, or hasn't had a solid night of sleep in three weeks due to his newborn, etc. The last thing they want to do is sit down and learn how to use your software that so-and-so from that other department insisted be rolled out across the company.
You have to excuse your customers for not learning things in earnest. It's part of your job to make that as easy as possible for them.
> Once I thought it's because software is too complicated, but it seems every time I lower the entry barrier, people lower their opinion about what is a problem.
100000x this.
100000x this.
It's the Nintendo Cartridge Effect.
Aaactually I suspect that's to do with capacitors. You allow them time to discharge.
Still a great name for this though!
Still a great name for this though!
Unless there are bleeder resistors (common when you have tons of capacitance e.g. In higher-end audio amps) or components which otherwise drain the caps, they'll likely hold a charge a lot longer than the 30 seconds someone would spend blowing the dust out.
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When I worked tech support for a small regional cable ISP, I'd always tell people they had to "ground out any built-up static" on their cable line. This process involved unplugging the modem, unscrewing the coax connector, tapping the middle pin with a pen or pencil, and plugging it all back in.
Information's pretty thin stuff unless mixed with experience.
-Clarence DayI think it's from Raymond Chen's blog, The Old New Thing
Indeed, here's the link (though the details of the anecdote are slightly different):
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20040303-00/?p=...
> Here's the trick: Don't ask "Are you sure it's plugged in correctly?"
> If you do this, they will get all insulted and say indignantly, "Of course it is! Do I look like an idiot?" without actually checking.
> Instead, say "Okay, sometimes the connection gets a little dusty and the connection gets weak. Could you unplug the connector, blow into it to get the dust out, then plug it back in?"
> They will then crawl under the desk, find that they forgot to plug it in (or plugged it into the wrong port), blow out the dust, plug it in, and reply, "Um, yeah, that fixed it, thanks."
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20040303-00/?p=...
> Here's the trick: Don't ask "Are you sure it's plugged in correctly?"
> If you do this, they will get all insulted and say indignantly, "Of course it is! Do I look like an idiot?" without actually checking.
> Instead, say "Okay, sometimes the connection gets a little dusty and the connection gets weak. Could you unplug the connector, blow into it to get the dust out, then plug it back in?"
> They will then crawl under the desk, find that they forgot to plug it in (or plugged it into the wrong port), blow out the dust, plug it in, and reply, "Um, yeah, that fixed it, thanks."
"How does dust get into the outlet if it's more or less sealed" yeah it's a good tip
"Some outlets are not perfectly flush internally even though they may appear to be fine."
A few jobs ago (factory automation), we had a story from one of our projects where a device (would have been a PLC or relay panel) was failing. Rather than dust, metal filings had gotten into the case and were shorting out connections. A "quick" cleanup, and the device was working again.
When I did Internet support at an ISP years ago, I would sometimes use a similar strategy and ask people to reverse the Ethernet cable.
If you ask directly, people will often just instantly tell you the cable is good, without even touching it.
Customers would sometimes question this, but I don't recall anyone refusing after I explained the reasoning.
If you ask directly, people will often just instantly tell you the cable is good, without even touching it.
Customers would sometimes question this, but I don't recall anyone refusing after I explained the reasoning.
I did that kind of thing all the time when I did phone tech support. If I suspected that a cable wasn't plugged in or was in the wrong port or whatever, I'd have people unplug everything and plug it back in all the time. It fixed a lot of problems, especially with home routers/switches.
I would add a "I don't know" option. Family members who need tech support from me are generally unable to answer things like:
> Is your device up to date?
First, they aren't familiar with what is considered a "device". Does it mean the calendar app on the phone (where they see observed problems)? Surely it can't mean their iPad, because that's an iPad and not a "device". The "device" must be the charger thingy. What does "updated" mean? The clock and date are correct, is that what it means? The SIM card is just a week old, so that means device is updated, right? Or they updated their calendar app, so then all is good. Or maybe "device" refers to the internet box at home? If they correctly identify it as "probably not updated", the next instruction is equally opaque:
> Update it.
This needs a "how?" answer, in addition to "okay".
> Is your device up to date?
First, they aren't familiar with what is considered a "device". Does it mean the calendar app on the phone (where they see observed problems)? Surely it can't mean their iPad, because that's an iPad and not a "device". The "device" must be the charger thingy. What does "updated" mean? The clock and date are correct, is that what it means? The SIM card is just a week old, so that means device is updated, right? Or they updated their calendar app, so then all is good. Or maybe "device" refers to the internet box at home? If they correctly identify it as "probably not updated", the next instruction is equally opaque:
> Update it.
This needs a "how?" answer, in addition to "okay".
Most commonly, people coming to me for help make a blanket statement like "X is broken", where X could be their phone, computer, an application or website, the Internet as a whole. X is also generally inaccurate.
For instance, if the browser icon on my parents computer is moved for whatever reason, they will say that "the Internet is broken". If my mother can't figure out what button to press in a mobile application to get what she wants, "her phone is broken".
For instance, if the browser icon on my parents computer is moved for whatever reason, they will say that "the Internet is broken". If my mother can't figure out what button to press in a mobile application to get what she wants, "her phone is broken".
Maybe you should start with the basic concepts next time you are around. Explain things like computer, internet, operating system, programs. Just in a Feynman style of explanation, very brief and easy to understand.
Once my mother called that the tablet said it had a virus and should scan immediately. I asked what she saw on the screen, what she was doing when it occurred. It was an aggressive pop-up in an app she was using. I explained to her the intent of these pop-ups, which she understood and said that it did look fishy, hence her call. Next time I was around, I rooted their device and put an ad-blocker on it.
Once my mother called that the tablet said it had a virus and should scan immediately. I asked what she saw on the screen, what she was doing when it occurred. It was an aggressive pop-up in an app she was using. I explained to her the intent of these pop-ups, which she understood and said that it did look fishy, hence her call. Next time I was around, I rooted their device and put an ad-blocker on it.
If only it was that easy. Most of the ppl having simmilar problems will only pretend to listen and remember your explanations, only to run to you with the exact same problem in a couple of hours.
Exactly. They just want their problem solved, they don't care about understanding the underlying system.
It's not even about not wanting to listen, it's about the amount of information they have to absorb to understand the problem.
Also, most of us are not Feinmann-level teachers who can explain complicated systems in simple terms.
It's not even about not wanting to listen, it's about the amount of information they have to absorb to understand the problem.
Also, most of us are not Feinmann-level teachers who can explain complicated systems in simple terms.
It's not even about them failing to learn, necessarily - it's them failing to internalize deeply enough to recall how to solve their problems the next time they crop up. They're being handed answers from up high instead of experimenting - no practice, no wonder they can't solve it the next time either.
Even techies can run into this problem - the only reason we might do better, on average, is that we experiment with more things, and perhaps pursue more of this knowledge for it's own sake. We got sick of being on hold for tech support, we encountered issues tech support couldn't help us with, so we spent more time experimenting and internalizing the solutions to our problems.
To some degree this suggests an answer: Give people some time to try and solve their own problems. "I can take a look when I'm over there next" instead of spending a lot of time trying to remotely troubleshoot the problem over the phone. "Sure - let me just finish this up and I'll swing by" instead of dropping everything to troubleshoot a problem in-person for a coworker.
I still help my mom out some with various tech problems, but I think we've both benifited from letting her (re)develop some independence and self-sufficiency when it comes to technology.
Even techies can run into this problem - the only reason we might do better, on average, is that we experiment with more things, and perhaps pursue more of this knowledge for it's own sake. We got sick of being on hold for tech support, we encountered issues tech support couldn't help us with, so we spent more time experimenting and internalizing the solutions to our problems.
To some degree this suggests an answer: Give people some time to try and solve their own problems. "I can take a look when I'm over there next" instead of spending a lot of time trying to remotely troubleshoot the problem over the phone. "Sure - let me just finish this up and I'll swing by" instead of dropping everything to troubleshoot a problem in-person for a coworker.
I still help my mom out some with various tech problems, but I think we've both benifited from letting her (re)develop some independence and self-sufficiency when it comes to technology.
Lack of experimentation might also be because they are afraid to break something. I remember my (completely non digital) parents being unusually good with their car navigation system. Turns out the sales rep had told them: "its impossible to break this system, just try and it will be ok", and so they had trial and errorred their way to understanding how it worked.
100%. All too often with our software it is too easy to break stuff in an unfixable (to a newbie) way.
Just an anecdote: I organised an Android phone for my gf's mother. After a lot of training, she was using it to send and receive photos to her family and loving having it.
If she took a photo and wasn't happy with it, she would want to delete it. In the Samsung gallery app (Galaxy S4), you long-press on the thumbnail of the photo, then choose delete.
Problem is, the thumbnail of the Album itself is actually the last photo that you've taken. So she has inadvertently deleted the whole album (all her photos) by accident twice now!
I can't blame her because the icon she is deleting looks exactly the same as the picture she's trying to delete, only the message is a tiny bit different ("would you like to delete this album?" versus the usual "would you like to delete this photo?"), easy to not read the last word of the message if you've seen it 1000x before and done it safely.
I blame Samsung 100% for these accidential deletions. These phones and software just aren't designed with the non-confident user in mind, and in my opinion that's a broken UI.
Deleting an album containing hundreds of photos is something so dangerous and something you'd probably want to do so rarely that such an operation should at least warrant an extra message saying, "you are about to delete an album containing $number photos, are you sure?" And why not have a recycle bin? There are many ways this could have been easily avoided.
I can totally understand why a user like that would be nervous about pressing buttons they're not sure about. Especially after accidentally deleting all their photos!
Also there's no way to use a better Gallery app, the camera app always uses the IMO broken Samsung Galley app to review photos, and there's no way to change that.
Unfortunately I can't tell her "it's impossible to break this system" with that phone. I wish I could.
Sometimes I think that I'm just lucky I didn't have an experience like that when I was first starting with computers, because I might have been so scared after that that I wouldn't have continued to explore and learn. Nowadays I basically think that there's no problem with computers that you can't fix given the time and motivation.
Just an anecdote: I organised an Android phone for my gf's mother. After a lot of training, she was using it to send and receive photos to her family and loving having it.
If she took a photo and wasn't happy with it, she would want to delete it. In the Samsung gallery app (Galaxy S4), you long-press on the thumbnail of the photo, then choose delete.
Problem is, the thumbnail of the Album itself is actually the last photo that you've taken. So she has inadvertently deleted the whole album (all her photos) by accident twice now!
I can't blame her because the icon she is deleting looks exactly the same as the picture she's trying to delete, only the message is a tiny bit different ("would you like to delete this album?" versus the usual "would you like to delete this photo?"), easy to not read the last word of the message if you've seen it 1000x before and done it safely.
I blame Samsung 100% for these accidential deletions. These phones and software just aren't designed with the non-confident user in mind, and in my opinion that's a broken UI.
Deleting an album containing hundreds of photos is something so dangerous and something you'd probably want to do so rarely that such an operation should at least warrant an extra message saying, "you are about to delete an album containing $number photos, are you sure?" And why not have a recycle bin? There are many ways this could have been easily avoided.
I can totally understand why a user like that would be nervous about pressing buttons they're not sure about. Especially after accidentally deleting all their photos!
Also there's no way to use a better Gallery app, the camera app always uses the IMO broken Samsung Galley app to review photos, and there's no way to change that.
Unfortunately I can't tell her "it's impossible to break this system" with that phone. I wish I could.
Sometimes I think that I'm just lucky I didn't have an experience like that when I was first starting with computers, because I might have been so scared after that that I wouldn't have continued to explore and learn. Nowadays I basically think that there's no problem with computers that you can't fix given the time and motivation.
Agreed on all points.
> Sometimes I think that I'm just lucky I didn't have an experience like that when I was first starting with computers,
Oh dear - tell me you've learned to make backups anyways! ;)
> Sometimes I think that I'm just lucky I didn't have an experience like that when I was first starting with computers,
Oh dear - tell me you've learned to make backups anyways! ;)
No, still haven't learned that lesson properly.
I have become very good at data recovery though. Never lost anything I couldn't later recover!
But yeah, don't do that people!
I have become very good at data recovery though. Never lost anything I couldn't later recover!
But yeah, don't do that people!
I am in the habit of telling them once, and I put it forward during the 'lecture'. If you are too lazy to listen, I am not wasting my time. Go pay someone to help you. I am not your support desk.
This is like API design though, moving stuff around and changing interfaces is a breaking change if any clients are not updated in lock step with the change.
So the first 2 are rebooting and making sure it has power. The third is "up to date". I do quite a bit of tech support for my family and neither of those issues are really issues. The #1 issue for me is "this free app I installed wanted to install a browser addon and now I see ads everywhere". The #2 is "this free app I installed hijacks everything on my Mac to show ads".
I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?
I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?
I had the opposite problem recently: how can they know that things are not malware?
My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no.
I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...
My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no.
I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...
That is actually one of the better stories of family tech support that I have heard. I laughed out loud, but in sympathy, not maliciously. Thanks for sharing!
The best thing I ever found to reduce the risk of malware is to move them to a Linux distro. The risk is not zero but from a user perspective I install the software they need from package repositories remotely, and that more or less settles it.
Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.
Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.
For folks who mostly just need a browser and for whom malware is a risk, you really can't do better than an iPad.
I love Linux, but there really is no beating an iPad if you need a PC-approximate that is absurdly low maintenance.
I love Linux, but there really is no beating an iPad if you need a PC-approximate that is absurdly low maintenance.
There's also CloudReady, it's based on Chromium OS. I installed it on a relatives computer after making sure they just needed a browser, and so far so good. It's been around 4-6 months and they said it's working fine.
https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3
https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3
An iPad is an expensive solution if they've already got a PC, and Linux is a great free way to resurrect computers that the commercial operating systems have left behind.
That depends on how much you value your own personal time setting their system up and maintaining it. An iPad might have a greater up front cost, but the time savings could make it a comparative bargain over the lifetime of the device.
iPads are not maintenance and support free.
I would personally rather support a linux machine that I can remotely connect to, give them icons on the desktop, etc, than an iPad.
I would personally rather support a linux machine that I can remotely connect to, give them icons on the desktop, etc, than an iPad.
Not so expensive when you consider support.
A chromebook is cheaper and, IMHO, better for most users.
What do you think makes it better? It's not unusual to see non-technical users of all ages using an iPad. You never see them using a chromebook.
- Built-in keyboard,
- many times desktop browser will be more compatible,
- you can install additional safety browser extensions beyond adblocker,
- Chrome Remote Desktop for remote service,
- updates on ChromeOS are entirely seamless - just reboot the machine every once in a while.
- many times desktop browser will be more compatible,
- you can install additional safety browser extensions beyond adblocker,
- Chrome Remote Desktop for remote service,
- updates on ChromeOS are entirely seamless - just reboot the machine every once in a while.
Almost all of this is of no practical importance to 'many users'. They're nice-to-haves for technical users.
Built-in keyboard - this depends how often or how important for a person text entry is. Certainly for older users that type often or value it more physical keyboard would have very high practical importance [1]. For younger users that write a lot it would also be important.
Desktop browser compatibility have high practical importance. There are many sites that are important (i.e. government sites), but either are hard to navigate or can't be displayed properly. Users may use 20% of sites 80% of time. It does not matter then when they stumble upon a site that is important, but does not work. This sounds like a classic argument of FOSS proponents - everything works except: this game or that printer. In many cases it will be unacceptable.
Additional safety browser extensions and Chrome Remote Desktop are indeed for technical users. However it is meant to cut needed service time - that is of value to the normal users.
Seamless updates are important in a sense that the device is not bugging them and device is always ready to use. That also ensures that device is safe to use. It may be not of high importance to users, but it certainly is of practical importance.
I did not include price previously, but it was mentioned here above. The price is not practical importance per se, but it often overrides everything.
[1] http://web.ist.utl.pt/hugo.nicolau/publications/2012/assets1... - it's a small study, but nice place to start
Desktop browser compatibility have high practical importance. There are many sites that are important (i.e. government sites), but either are hard to navigate or can't be displayed properly. Users may use 20% of sites 80% of time. It does not matter then when they stumble upon a site that is important, but does not work. This sounds like a classic argument of FOSS proponents - everything works except: this game or that printer. In many cases it will be unacceptable.
Additional safety browser extensions and Chrome Remote Desktop are indeed for technical users. However it is meant to cut needed service time - that is of value to the normal users.
Seamless updates are important in a sense that the device is not bugging them and device is always ready to use. That also ensures that device is safe to use. It may be not of high importance to users, but it certainly is of practical importance.
I did not include price previously, but it was mentioned here above. The price is not practical importance per se, but it often overrides everything.
[1] http://web.ist.utl.pt/hugo.nicolau/publications/2012/assets1... - it's a small study, but nice place to start
Did you mean to imply there was a logical connection? I'm not sure how 'perceived usage' relates to 'quality'? Surely the two questions are orthogonal? i.e. the less used solution might still be 'better'.
My parents hardly ever use a desktop computer since getting tablets and smart phones, but they still need and use one for business activities (self employment Excel entries, scanning and emailing documents, taxes). So while I wholeheartedly agree with you, I don't think the tablet can necessarily 100% eliminate the need for a desktop computer.
> For folks who mostly just need a browser and for whom malware is a risk, you really can't do better than an iPad.
Yup, I agree, but some folks prefer a physical keyboard and an Ipad + bluetooth keyboard is not really super convenient.
Yup, I agree, but some folks prefer a physical keyboard and an Ipad + bluetooth keyboard is not really super convenient.
iPads are great. But what beats it is a Fire HD8. I got one for me and for my mother-in-law on CyberMonday for $56 each. That's about 1/10th the price of an iPad. I did not login to Amazon. I did install Chrome and VLC so she has music, videos, and the web - all one needs on such a device. Hopefully it gets rooted soon so I can install a generic Android ROM.
What sort of OS support updates is that getting?
OTA OS updates still occur on Fire tablet even if you don't register. I've disabled them via OpenDns in case the current OS version becomes rootable.
If your solution to malware problems with an unsophisticated user is to just cripple their ability to install anything, why not let instead let them keep Windows/Mac and give them an account with minimal privileges?
Because then the unsophisticated user will constantly ask to have $RANDOM_SOFTWARE installed. Admittedly, having to say "no" to those requests up front is preferable to having to remove malware infestations later, but it is still annoying and can cause unnecessary friction in personal relationships.
There are several ways switching an unsophisticated user reduces this problem:
- Ads for malware-laden $RANDOM_SOFTWARE downloads aren't targeted at Linux desktops in the first place.
- The ads that mimic UI widgets don't match anything in the desktop UI, making them much easier for unsophisticated users to identify as suspect.
- Saying that $RANDOM_SOFTWARE they want to install isn't Linux-compatible (which admittedly does generate moderate pressure to switch back) is usually a more acceptable answer than "No, I won't install that malware-riddled piece of crap for you", however gently worded.
There are several ways switching an unsophisticated user reduces this problem:
- Ads for malware-laden $RANDOM_SOFTWARE downloads aren't targeted at Linux desktops in the first place.
- The ads that mimic UI widgets don't match anything in the desktop UI, making them much easier for unsophisticated users to identify as suspect.
- Saying that $RANDOM_SOFTWARE they want to install isn't Linux-compatible (which admittedly does generate moderate pressure to switch back) is usually a more acceptable answer than "No, I won't install that malware-riddled piece of crap for you", however gently worded.
These issues confirmed by personal experience.
I switched over my father-in-law's laptop to Chromium OS for this exact reason.
(mostly) automatic updates.
no malware.
zero configuration to allow for breaking anything.
no "can I install XX?" questions. The answer is always "if it's in the chrome store".
A good browser does everything he needs.
I switched over my father-in-law's laptop to Chromium OS for this exact reason.
(mostly) automatic updates.
no malware.
zero configuration to allow for breaking anything.
no "can I install XX?" questions. The answer is always "if it's in the chrome store".
A good browser does everything he needs.
That's how I set up the in-laws laptop with Windows 10. I kept all admin privileges in a separate account with a password only I know. They both get their own unprivileged user accounts, with the standard protections turned on (Firewall, Defender). Haven't had an issue so far, and it's been about 6 months.
Cripple their ability to install anything? What are you suggesting?
How do you install TurboTax on Linux? None of the software they have, none of the software anyone they know uses will install on their Linux machine.
Very quickly most will get the idea that the computer is broken and you need to come and fix it because you were the one that broke it.
Very quickly most will get the idea that the computer is broken and you need to come and fix it because you were the one that broke it.
Then you charge them money and do as they ask. Or they can go ask someone else to do it for free, maybe that friend who recommended the software that doesn't run on Linux, given that they know better than you...
If you want to throw a wedge in between you and your family over this that's fine, but you did break it by preventing them from doing what they wanted with their computer.
I can't edit my comment anymore, but I should have been clear. My family is relatively tech-savy: My father is a photographer and a power user in a handful of Adobe apps. He manages backup disk arrays and can debug most common computer problems.
The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone.
So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.
The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone.
So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.
Restrict them to installing only from the Mac App Store.
I think this needs a "I don't know" option that leads to links to support pages. I've certainly dealt with friends and family who don't know how to check if their software is up to date and update it if it's not.
I also think the "Did this fix your problem?" prompts after saying "Yes" are redundant.
I also think the "Did this fix your problem?" prompts after saying "Yes" are redundant.
The "Did this fix your problem?" interrupts the flow and forces people to pay attention to the question instead of blindly clicking, and it is certainly there on purpose.
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Depending on the device, I would say. Maybe if it were phrased, "Do you regularly see annoying popups that ask you to update your software?"
Shoot, I guess even that is a poor wording. I do know, however, that every time Apple pushes an iOS update, I get a text from my mom to see if she should accept the update. (She got an iphone last summer for the first time, and does not know how to install apps.)
Shoot, I guess even that is a poor wording. I do know, however, that every time Apple pushes an iOS update, I get a text from my mom to see if she should accept the update. (She got an iphone last summer for the first time, and does not know how to install apps.)
Well... usually the device works somehow and they are incapable of giving a good description of the problem. That's the real problem.
I used the tool like my mother would and had these Problems:
1. the device is on! Of course I know it's plugged in!
2. "is the device up to date". What does that mean? The clock seems to be going correctly! It's not the newest model, but fairly recent...
3. I now have the google results for "the titles don't work anymore"
-
I think far more helpful would be a simple form helping writing a report:
- What is the name of the program where the problem occurs (you can find that here [screenshot showing a title bar])
- Describe step by step what you did when the error occurred. Once done, please do these exact steps again to see if the problem still occurs.
- What did you expect to happen?
- What did actually happen?
- Did it work before?
- If it did, when did it work the last time? Did you change anything since than?
- Any further guesses on what might be relevant to the problem or what might cause it?
- When we solve the problem, what do I get? (multiple choice: nothing - still owed me one, a beer, a hug, other [ ])
I used the tool like my mother would and had these Problems:
1. the device is on! Of course I know it's plugged in!
2. "is the device up to date". What does that mean? The clock seems to be going correctly! It's not the newest model, but fairly recent...
3. I now have the google results for "the titles don't work anymore"
-
I think far more helpful would be a simple form helping writing a report:
- What is the name of the program where the problem occurs (you can find that here [screenshot showing a title bar])
- Describe step by step what you did when the error occurred. Once done, please do these exact steps again to see if the problem still occurs.
- What did you expect to happen?
- What did actually happen?
- Did it work before?
- If it did, when did it work the last time? Did you change anything since than?
- Any further guesses on what might be relevant to the problem or what might cause it?
- When we solve the problem, what do I get? (multiple choice: nothing - still owed me one, a beer, a hug, other [ ])
Neat. Personally I would say "turn it off and on again" while this says the reverse. If it's targeted at a non-technical user, it needs to be foolproof. I have helped users before that would see this and literally turn their computer on and off, and wonder why the computer isn't working while off as instructed.
This is the funniest part of the whole tool
Some people can't be helped.
I can't believe that some people here think that it is better to move your relatives, who are scared/prone to malware but don't think to restart their computer first, to Linux. What a joke really. Linux is good and all, but come on people, among iOS, MacOS, Windows, Chrome and Linux, it's the least usable and least user friendly.
My dad (>60, not exactly tech saavy) has been using Lubuntu for 2 years now (actually I don't even remember when we installed it might be 4 years :P). For many parents who only surf the web and do some non power user office (he uses Libre Office now) and check their mail it's the perfect solution.
For his use case it's more user friendly than the Windows install because of the lack of constant update requests and antivirus stuff etc. etc. It's also faster on the same machine and the computer doesn't clog down every n month. I still remember that he asked me about 6 month in why the computer doesn't get slower :P
I'm fairly confident that a switch from Windows to macOS would have been a lot harder for him btw. Same for a switch to Windows 10 without making it look like the old Windows actually (not as confident in that statement as I don't know enough about Win10).
For his use case it's more user friendly than the Windows install because of the lack of constant update requests and antivirus stuff etc. etc. It's also faster on the same machine and the computer doesn't clog down every n month. I still remember that he asked me about 6 month in why the computer doesn't get slower :P
I'm fairly confident that a switch from Windows to macOS would have been a lot harder for him btw. Same for a switch to Windows 10 without making it look like the old Windows actually (not as confident in that statement as I don't know enough about Win10).
My problem with Linux is that more often than not, Linux failure mode is dumping the user to console, where even a power user might struggle to diagnose the problem. I've had failed kernel upgrades on Ubuntu where one moment you click "update all" in the package manager, and the next you are staring at terminal login screen. I haven't had a windows computer do that to me in years.
I've never had that happen on Ubuntu. Installing Ubuntu used to be quite technical unless you were lucky and everything worked out of the box, but even that is way less so today. Regardless, once Ubuntu is installed I never had issues.
I haven't had that happen to me in Ubuntu for, IIRC, about a decade. OTOH I have had the equivalent happen in Windows as recently as early 2015.
yeah, people who know basically nothing aren't much of an issue, because they have no habits
The harder people to move over are ones who have ingrained certain things like "I need WinRAR to open this kind of file", and not being able to independently research for alternatives. People with mid-level computer experience, but not much experience in new environments suffer a lot on these transitions.
The harder people to move over are ones who have ingrained certain things like "I need WinRAR to open this kind of file", and not being able to independently research for alternatives. People with mid-level computer experience, but not much experience in new environments suffer a lot on these transitions.
I gave said the same:
Linux is for grandmothers, old electricians ... and seasoned sysadmins and programmers like me.
Linux is for grandmothers, old electricians ... and seasoned sysadmins and programmers like me.
This! Well... not this! Every time the (linux) desktop discussion comes up, at least a few geeks have this "linux+my mother" argument which should prove linux desktop is totally usable for everyone. Just wait until they discover "alternative program X" for "windows program X" is not the same as the program they saw at the computer of the neughbours mom. Or libre office fucks up the layout again.
Come on guys, why always the linux + mother argument. Do not do it. It is silly.
Besides that: most of the time you probably have to give support on apps they use instead of os related issues.
Come on guys, why always the linux + mother argument. Do not do it. It is silly.
Besides that: most of the time you probably have to give support on apps they use instead of os related issues.
So it is ok to generalize based on 0 cases that Linux will be too hard for older less tech-savvy people, but it is not ok to generalize based on 1-many successful cases that for some people it might work?
I agree that Linux might not be great for our parents. As for my own mother, I moved her to a Mac mini years ago and that has reduced my support time solely to explaining how specific websites work. She can do lots of things on her own now, like debugging the wifi (shitty telco router), she creates her own booklets for the classes she teaches, etc.
With windows she'd be stuck on non-task related issues 80% of the time, which made it impossible for her to learn how to use the computer at all.
I agree that Linux might not be great for our parents. As for my own mother, I moved her to a Mac mini years ago and that has reduced my support time solely to explaining how specific websites work. She can do lots of things on her own now, like debugging the wifi (shitty telco router), she creates her own booklets for the classes she teaches, etc.
With windows she'd be stuck on non-task related issues 80% of the time, which made it impossible for her to learn how to use the computer at all.
Perhaps because my mother's use of a computer literally never ventures out of the web browser? A Chromebook would be great for her, but she does not have one. Instead she has a desktop that has been "linux + my mother" for 6 years.
I generally nudge those folks toward the G Suite apps instead of a locally-installed office suite like LibreOffice.
It depends on the user, you can't make such a blanket statement and expect to be taken seriously.
My non-techie wife wandered onto my Elementary OS installation one day while I was at work, and despite having never used anything but Windows on the desktop (not even a Mac) she navigated just fine without me there to guide her. She was able to use it to go online, find something she wanted to print, print it, and then download, edit, and save a photo she wanted for her blog. Granted, those weren't pro-level tasks, but it's typical of what your average Grandma will do with her PC. Everything the average user does these days is all done in the browser; Google grokked that, and we now have Chrome OS.
I'd love to move my mother to Elementary (I've previously considered a Chromebook for her but my new stance on Google gives me pause) just so she will not be as susceptible to drive-by malware. I think if you give folks a fighting chance, you'll find that Windows doesn't have to be the only OS for Mr. and Mrs. Average User.
My non-techie wife wandered onto my Elementary OS installation one day while I was at work, and despite having never used anything but Windows on the desktop (not even a Mac) she navigated just fine without me there to guide her. She was able to use it to go online, find something she wanted to print, print it, and then download, edit, and save a photo she wanted for her blog. Granted, those weren't pro-level tasks, but it's typical of what your average Grandma will do with her PC. Everything the average user does these days is all done in the browser; Google grokked that, and we now have Chrome OS.
I'd love to move my mother to Elementary (I've previously considered a Chromebook for her but my new stance on Google gives me pause) just so she will not be as susceptible to drive-by malware. I think if you give folks a fighting chance, you'll find that Windows doesn't have to be the only OS for Mr. and Mrs. Average User.
Users below the upper quartile (if we can model computer competence along a single axis) are coping just fine with a range of OSes on mobile devices including tablets - Android, iOS. People are getting used to working out slightly unfamiliar interfaces.
Which raises the whole problem of mobile device resource hogs and adware.
> What a joke really.
I think you are the one making a joke rather. The overall Linux experience (when you choose the right hardware and when everything works as expected) is not bad, really. It's faster than a machine running on any other system, USB peripherals do not need tons of external drivers, you can choose the Windows Manager you prefer out of a dozen of them available, it has proper package management, user management with different levels of privileges, it does not need to reboot for every update like windows does, I could go on forever.
At best you can criticize some Linux distros for being unfamiliar for Windows or OSX users, but that's about it. The rest depends a lot more on what you do with it. If whoever uses it lives mostly in a browser, it makes basically no difference.
I think you are the one making a joke rather. The overall Linux experience (when you choose the right hardware and when everything works as expected) is not bad, really. It's faster than a machine running on any other system, USB peripherals do not need tons of external drivers, you can choose the Windows Manager you prefer out of a dozen of them available, it has proper package management, user management with different levels of privileges, it does not need to reboot for every update like windows does, I could go on forever.
At best you can criticize some Linux distros for being unfamiliar for Windows or OSX users, but that's about it. The rest depends a lot more on what you do with it. If whoever uses it lives mostly in a browser, it makes basically no difference.
About eight years ago I reinstalled my mother's laptop with Ubuntu (was WinXP). It was a mess before and I typically spent most of my time at my mom's actually with her laptop, trying to get it to decent speed and uninstalling miscellaneous crapware.
Since I installed Ubuntu on it I actually spend my time with her, not her computer. And she's happy about that, obviously, but also that her computer just works and she doesn't have to call me to get support all the time.
Since I installed Ubuntu on it I actually spend my time with her, not her computer. And she's happy about that, obviously, but also that her computer just works and she doesn't have to call me to get support all the time.
Likewise moved my Mum to Ubuntu about 10 years ago and it dramatically improved our relationship. Hasn't all been easy e.g. photo management has been a moving target but largely it's "just worked" during that time.
Same here for photo management - there is still no perfect solution so far. What did you end up using ? I am using a combination of Rapid Photo Downloader + Shotwell - not great, but it kind of works.
Is picasa for Linux still usable?
Picasa is/was great.
Picasa is/was great.
picasa was discontinued by Google I believe.
I am curious about this. From 2005-2008 my mother ran Ubuntu from an install that I set up and I have to say, it was delightful in terms of "very little IT support". The problem however was that she always seemed to feel like an outsider with her friends. Do you experience anything similar. Granted this timeframe was pre-smartphone and tablet, but I am curious none the less.
Well, sort of, but not really. My mom's best friend was really jealous of mom because her computer actually worked. The friend was running WinXP, experiencing all the typical problems. So my mom didn't feel like an outsider, more like she had the luxury situation.
A couple of years later Iphones and Android appeared, and as I'm an Android user she picked one of those (to simplify potential support situations) and was very happy about her decision. (Because she liked the phone, not that she was getting support from me all the time.)
I'm sure some of her friends have Iphones, but that's never really come up as a thing. Maybe because the people my mom associate with aren't 8 years old with the need to flaunt their stuff in the face of everybody claiming "look my phone is so cool, woop woop, your phone sucks because you have a different brand!". ;-)
A couple of years later Iphones and Android appeared, and as I'm an Android user she picked one of those (to simplify potential support situations) and was very happy about her decision. (Because she liked the phone, not that she was getting support from me all the time.)
I'm sure some of her friends have Iphones, but that's never really come up as a thing. Maybe because the people my mom associate with aren't 8 years old with the need to flaunt their stuff in the face of everybody claiming "look my phone is so cool, woop woop, your phone sucks because you have a different brand!". ;-)
That's one reason I bought stock android phones for my parents even if they don't care about stock android or not.
It's easier to tell them which setting to navigate to or what to tap looking at my phone since I too have a stock android phone.
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How is it the least user-friendly? In Ubuntu, for example, nothing in regular use seems particularly different. My grandma started using it as her first OS at 84, and she’s still doing fine.
I'm commuter savvy and tried to get HBO Now to play on Ubuntu. Searched Google and found many different commands to try and run but had no luck. How could something so simple be so difficult?
Because it's not so simple. I have no experienced with HBO Now but similar services. And typically they use DRM like Microsoft Silverlight or the like to prevent people from playing videos without proper access.
The reason why such things are harder to get to work in Linux sometimes is because such DRM-solutions are not always baked in or provided by the same providers as in windows, and might be proprietary.
Also companies like Netflix have been known to filter peoples useragent leading to the exclusion of Linux users. nowadays it's as easy as installing a Silverlight-alternative in your favourite browser or just running a chrome derived browser.
my main point being: it's not always Linux's fault that some things are hard.
The reason why such things are harder to get to work in Linux sometimes is because such DRM-solutions are not always baked in or provided by the same providers as in windows, and might be proprietary.
Also companies like Netflix have been known to filter peoples useragent leading to the exclusion of Linux users. nowadays it's as easy as installing a Silverlight-alternative in your favourite browser or just running a chrome derived browser.
my main point being: it's not always Linux's fault that some things are hard.
Of course that's correct, but we're talking about users that consider their device broken when an icon is not in its place. All they will perceive is "I cannot watch this video because Linux".
> we're talking about users that consider their device broken when an icon is not in its place
I wonder why such people exist at all? They do - reading the comments up to here I saw them mentioned four or five times. Yet the mindset such people supposedly display is totally incomprehensible to me. I can't for the life of me understand why would anyone, when faced with a problem, automatically give up without researching and trying to solve it. This is how I - and probably most of us on HN - learned "computers" in the first place: hours and hours of typing and clicking random things until something happens.
Aside from where do they come from, another question is if we really need to cater to them? Are they truly a majority of users? Is the condition in-born, uncurable, or can they be educated?
I wonder why such people exist at all? They do - reading the comments up to here I saw them mentioned four or five times. Yet the mindset such people supposedly display is totally incomprehensible to me. I can't for the life of me understand why would anyone, when faced with a problem, automatically give up without researching and trying to solve it. This is how I - and probably most of us on HN - learned "computers" in the first place: hours and hours of typing and clicking random things until something happens.
Aside from where do they come from, another question is if we really need to cater to them? Are they truly a majority of users? Is the condition in-born, uncurable, or can they be educated?
See "The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think"
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
Quoting from the article:
> That one quarter of the population can’t use a computer at all is the most serious element of the digital divide.
Frightening... but why?
> To a great extent, this problem is caused by computers still being much too complicated for many people.
Ok, but this doesn't answer my other question - is it possible to educate these people to use the current computers, or do computers really need to be streamlined that much?
> That one quarter of the population can’t use a computer at all is the most serious element of the digital divide.
Frightening... but why?
> To a great extent, this problem is caused by computers still being much too complicated for many people.
Ok, but this doesn't answer my other question - is it possible to educate these people to use the current computers, or do computers really need to be streamlined that much?
> Frightening... but why?
I asked myself the same question when I saw a documentary about analphabets. They quoted a number of about 8 million total and functional analphabets for Germany (among 80 million population), which is absolutely staggering.
To witness, people who cannot use a computer are often called "digital analphabets" or similar.
I asked myself the same question when I saw a documentary about analphabets. They quoted a number of about 8 million total and functional analphabets for Germany (among 80 million population), which is absolutely staggering.
To witness, people who cannot use a computer are often called "digital analphabets" or similar.
> is it possible to educate these people to use the current computers[?]
Some can be taught, but not all of them.
There is a significant fraction of the population that simply can't "get" certain concepts in a usable form. These are the same folks that are only capable of solving an algebra problem by rote, don't see the difference between making a word bold & italic and doing it indirectly by applying a custom style, etc.
It is important to note that this doesn't have anything to do with a lack of intelligence. Many smart developers struggle in an analogous way with pointers and pointer arithmetic, for example. Some people's brains just don't easily bend very far in certain directions.
Some can be taught, but not all of them.
There is a significant fraction of the population that simply can't "get" certain concepts in a usable form. These are the same folks that are only capable of solving an algebra problem by rote, don't see the difference between making a word bold & italic and doing it indirectly by applying a custom style, etc.
It is important to note that this doesn't have anything to do with a lack of intelligence. Many smart developers struggle in an analogous way with pointers and pointer arithmetic, for example. Some people's brains just don't easily bend very far in certain directions.
Then make them install a distribution preconfigured with these things. I'm quite sure distros like that are around, they were last time I checked for them like 5-10 years ago anyways.
Yeah, how can HBO make something so simple (streaming videos over the web) so difficult? The answer is DRM, of course.
The problem is DRM - it has nothing to do with Linux.
Doesn't matter whose fault it is. Works on Windows, doesn't on linux. That's all that matters for the user.
its like saying certain games work only on consoles and not on windows so windows is shit. that does not make much sense really.
No, it's like saying that
certain games work only on consoles and not on windows so windows is not a suitable replacement of consoles for people who want to play those games.
certain games work only on consoles and not on windows so windows is not a suitable replacement of consoles for people who want to play those games.
So write to HBO support then and complain about their shitty software, it has nothing to do with Ubuntu.
I installed Ubuntu on my Dads laptop, and believe me, he had no troubles understanding and using it. Also never heard any complains from him about virus or system slowing down. Sooo good for me. :D
https://design.canonical.com/2010/11/usability-testing-of-un...
Canonical actually spent money on user interface testing. I can find some activity for Gnome shell but I'm having problems digging up any solid testing for KDE.
Canonical actually spent money on user interface testing. I can find some activity for Gnome shell but I'm having problems digging up any solid testing for KDE.
Usability people once came up with a brilliant observation about "spatial" and someone used that to argue that everytime you clicked on a folder in Gnome it should open in a new window.
Of course this made desktop a mess.
Many usability people also claim that it is good to have the menus attached to the top of the screen instead of attached to the window it affects.
Software recommended by usability people often have menus hidden away behind "gear" or "hamburger" icons.
I am not a usability expert but often I feel software is worse off after the ux people have had a say.
In particular it seems for many of them the goal is to mimic Mac OS X.
Of course this made desktop a mess.
Many usability people also claim that it is good to have the menus attached to the top of the screen instead of attached to the window it affects.
Software recommended by usability people often have menus hidden away behind "gear" or "hamburger" icons.
I am not a usability expert but often I feel software is worse off after the ux people have had a say.
In particular it seems for many of them the goal is to mimic Mac OS X.
Remember that you are in the top decile of computer users if not in the 99th percentile.
Unity (Canonical's fork of Gnome Shell) perpetrates neither the 'spatial' filer nor the hamburger thing. Gnome Shell's Nautilus no longer uses 'spatial' presentation either - I recollect that Acorn RISC-OS used that metaphor.
I think that menus at top of screen made perfect sense in the days of screens with resolutions of 512 x 342 - I used a Mac LC - and on netbooks which is where Unity came from after all. On a large monitor they make a lot less sense I agree - huge trek to the top of the screen to click on stuff and the danger of a misplaced click on the way changing the menus.
I stopped using Unity for ages because of the way it broke the 'ALT-F' style mnemonics (Alt-IOF to insert a typeset equation in LibreOffice &c) but things have improved recently.
I find myself in the strange position of actually rather liking Gnome shell from Debian Wheezy onward (3.8)
Unity (Canonical's fork of Gnome Shell) perpetrates neither the 'spatial' filer nor the hamburger thing. Gnome Shell's Nautilus no longer uses 'spatial' presentation either - I recollect that Acorn RISC-OS used that metaphor.
I think that menus at top of screen made perfect sense in the days of screens with resolutions of 512 x 342 - I used a Mac LC - and on netbooks which is where Unity came from after all. On a large monitor they make a lot less sense I agree - huge trek to the top of the screen to click on stuff and the danger of a misplaced click on the way changing the menus.
I stopped using Unity for ages because of the way it broke the 'ALT-F' style mnemonics (Alt-IOF to insert a typeset equation in LibreOffice &c) but things have improved recently.
I find myself in the strange position of actually rather liking Gnome shell from Debian Wheezy onward (3.8)
say what you want, but my family (with no technological literacy to speak of) has been using the following distros with great success:
Linux Mint: my mother. two years since the switch and she loves it. can't say I don't either.
Arch Linux: my significant other. a year since she adopted it, and she can find her way around just fine.
FreeBSD: my father. with i3 and a couple of scripts, he's able to boot up into a single-use environment and do what he wants. very simple and easy and I don't have to touch his laptop for a long time.
so.. user friendly? user friendliness depends on the interface that you slap onto the front of the operating system. turns out, there are different UIs for different purposes!
and that's why linux is a good choice. underneath, it's secure, maintainable, and free. on top, it can look like anything you want, thanks to X and the various DE/WMs.
my mother needs a full-on Windows-like GUI, start menu and all. my SO needs a slim interface so she uses fluxbox, which with a click of her mouse has everything she needs in a convenient menu (plus workspaces), and my father doesn't need anything but a web browser.
the kernel doesn't matter to them if you dress it up nicely.
Linux Mint: my mother. two years since the switch and she loves it. can't say I don't either.
Arch Linux: my significant other. a year since she adopted it, and she can find her way around just fine.
FreeBSD: my father. with i3 and a couple of scripts, he's able to boot up into a single-use environment and do what he wants. very simple and easy and I don't have to touch his laptop for a long time.
so.. user friendly? user friendliness depends on the interface that you slap onto the front of the operating system. turns out, there are different UIs for different purposes!
and that's why linux is a good choice. underneath, it's secure, maintainable, and free. on top, it can look like anything you want, thanks to X and the various DE/WMs.
my mother needs a full-on Windows-like GUI, start menu and all. my SO needs a slim interface so she uses fluxbox, which with a click of her mouse has everything she needs in a convenient menu (plus workspaces), and my father doesn't need anything but a web browser.
the kernel doesn't matter to them if you dress it up nicely.
My mom is not a tech person. I have had her on linux for the past five years without any issues (asides the ones I caused myself when messing with things). She never updates it, and mostly uses it for photo editing and web access. I run updates when I am in town in case grub gets broken.
Linux runs better as a remotely administered machine than macos or windows, and can run photoshop cs2, unlike ios and chrome.
Linux runs better as a remotely administered machine than macos or windows, and can run photoshop cs2, unlike ios and chrome.
Anecdote, sure, but a data point none the less: my mother who is very untechnical and has zero patience for software errors loves using her computer again after I got Linux onto it. According to her, everything just works, and it runs faster to boot! This is someone who's spent decades in DOS, then Windows, then OS X.
I'm responsible for my sister, my mother, 6 coworkers and 13 friends running Arch on their hardware, in various personalized configurations that took me maybe 30 minutes each. I can push out updates and flag new software for installation within seconds if they ask me for it and so far, I have not had one serious complaint. Some use Libreoffice for their private stuff, some appstream Office directly into a X window. Oh you don't like GNOME? Let me install Xfce. It's perfect if certain use cases apply. My sister has had hers for 6 years and counting and only complains when she cant execute nickelback.mp3.exe.
Computers tend to be easier to use when you have your own personal system administrator available.
Well, "We designed the WOW! Computer for seniors and baby boomers with little or no experience using computers."
And "The WOW! Computer runs on a Linux operating system we’ve customized to support our touch screen capabilities. We chose Linux to avoid frequent problems with viruses and to provide a more secure, problem-free computer environment. Linux has been developed over the last 20 years by numerous companies and currently runs on millions of computers. In fact, about 60% of all internet servers run Linux."
So ...
https://www.mywowcomputer.com/faqs.aspx
And "The WOW! Computer runs on a Linux operating system we’ve customized to support our touch screen capabilities. We chose Linux to avoid frequent problems with viruses and to provide a more secure, problem-free computer environment. Linux has been developed over the last 20 years by numerous companies and currently runs on millions of computers. In fact, about 60% of all internet servers run Linux."
So ...
https://www.mywowcomputer.com/faqs.aspx
My father, sisters would disagree. I only had Linux on the home computer for last 7-8 years. There are absolutely no support requirements, because it keeps on working the same way with no surprises. They can not setup windows, macOS, linux by themselves, but once setup for them Linux is the most effective solution and least headache for me.
All of my computer science friends who have moved their parents to Linux (myself included) report that they are happily doing with their computers what they used to (sans downloading and running random malware) with much reduced "tech support".
Hell, when I introduced my mom to ubuntu ten years ago, Linux wasn't even as desktop friendly as it is now.
Not to say that it's the best choice, but it's plenty usable and user friendly.
Hell, when I introduced my mom to ubuntu ten years ago, Linux wasn't even as desktop friendly as it is now.
Not to say that it's the best choice, but it's plenty usable and user friendly.
Too late for me, my mom is already using apps from the Appstore.
Mine was using non-free applications too beforehand. You obviously would need to find ways that she can accomplish the same tasks as before without too much trouble.
Having said that, if she wanted a new computer right now, I'd probably recommend an iPad with a keyboard case (assuming that she can do what she wants with it, which I think she can -- most of her computer use nowadays is web browsing, email and the occasional word processing/spreadsheet. I use mine for everything except coding)
At the end of the day, its down to cost analysis: is it cheaper (in terms of time spent, for both of you) to leave things as they are and deal with support issues as they arise; or to retrain your mom to use something which has lower support overhead?
It may not make sense to get her to switch.
Having said that, if she wanted a new computer right now, I'd probably recommend an iPad with a keyboard case (assuming that she can do what she wants with it, which I think she can -- most of her computer use nowadays is web browsing, email and the occasional word processing/spreadsheet. I use mine for everything except coding)
At the end of the day, its down to cost analysis: is it cheaper (in terms of time spent, for both of you) to leave things as they are and deal with support issues as they arise; or to retrain your mom to use something which has lower support overhead?
It may not make sense to get her to switch.
Tons of people have done it, and what the average non-technical user does is trivial on all of those operating systems. Anyway, Linux has half a dozen desktop UIs - referring to the user-friendliness of Linux as a unitary thing just makes it seem like you don't have a lot of experience in what you're criticizing.
edit: The best thing about Linux for non-technical people is that the GUIs don't change radically (for marketing purposes) every year or two. Once you get used to something, you can generally keep it, and changes and modernizations will accumulate slowly instead of forcing an adjustment all at once.
edit: The best thing about Linux for non-technical people is that the GUIs don't change radically (for marketing purposes) every year or two. Once you get used to something, you can generally keep it, and changes and modernizations will accumulate slowly instead of forcing an adjustment all at once.
The answer for 80%+ of non-techy computer users is to... move them to a tablet.
iOS or Android, doesn't matter. All most people do is surf Facebook, check webmail/im, and do online shopping.
Moving these people over to a tablet reduces Family IT Support to practically zero.
iOS or Android, doesn't matter. All most people do is surf Facebook, check webmail/im, and do online shopping.
Moving these people over to a tablet reduces Family IT Support to practically zero.
I moved three relatives who's computing skill vary between "What is a file, again? Help me, my Internet is gone?!!" and "How do I use this scanner to get that document into a PDF file and send it via Thunderbird?" over to Xubuntu (Ubuntu with XFCE, 14.04). They all dutifully do the upgrades and it's very rare that I have to intervene.
> They all dutifully do the upgrades and it's very rare that I have to intervene.
If you don't want to even worry about that, include a sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade as a cron job and everything will be up to date without them doing anything.
If you don't want to even worry about that, include a sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade as a cron job and everything will be up to date without them doing anything.
You're not wrong, but just want to note that Ubuntu has a number of options in the graphical settings interface to control updates, including automatic installation of (either security, or all) updates.
There are unattended upgrades for that. Though you might need to add some dpkg options such as "force-confdef" / "force-confnew".
My grandpa runs on Linux for 3 years. He understands how to open an email and how to send one, how to Google (mainly about cars) and how to send money. That's all he wants to know anyway.
He was scared about downloading viruses and all that, to which I told him: you don't need to worry about it.
He's also on a mac sometimes, I wouldn't let
He was scared about downloading viruses and all that, to which I told him: you don't need to worry about it.
He's also on a mac sometimes, I wouldn't let
I really don't see the difference, all of them provide icons to click to open apps that look roughly the same. It's just what your family member is used to. Anyone who grew up in KDE will find the Windows/MacOS UI a pain. But the fact is, Linux runs on as cheap hardware as Windows while being less or as prone to viruses/trojans as MacOS, so maybe it's worth a bit of a learning curve. Especially when you just use a browser, Ubuntu provides you with a 5 years unchanging UI... Compare that to Windows and what people are apparently willing to accept.
Just like others I installed Ubuntu on my mom laptop like 7 years ago. Transition was simple mainly because she was scared of computers all her life and different OS doesn't change much. All she need is some music CD playback, little of photo management and browser.
After many years the only problem ever occur was when she accepted upgrade proposal to Ubuntu 16.04 and then shortly after closed laptop so it's end up in half installed state. So it's would be smart not just setup unattended upgrades, but also disable all release upgrade suggestions.
Though I suppose for her ChromeOS could be enough too, but it's was too limited in offline mode and I not sure if she going to need new laptop anytime soon.
After many years the only problem ever occur was when she accepted upgrade proposal to Ubuntu 16.04 and then shortly after closed laptop so it's end up in half installed state. So it's would be smart not just setup unattended upgrades, but also disable all release upgrade suggestions.
Though I suppose for her ChromeOS could be enough too, but it's was too limited in offline mode and I not sure if she going to need new laptop anytime soon.
I'm fairly sure if I moved my parents to linux mint they wouldnt even notice. 'Usable' and 'user friendly' don't apply when all you use is chrome, and chrome is the same on every OS.
I installed linux on my grandmothers PC exactly because it is not usable. The webbrowser and email work fine (She already used thunderbird and firefox) but what destroyed the computer monthly is other family members that "helped" by installing "cleanup tools" and some ridiculous games that required hardware with shady drivers to unlock game content...
I've had my parents on Linux several times as laptops were getting long in the tooth.
What most of home users need now is a browser and it works well on Linux too. I've installed Linux Mint for some of my family members and they are are doing fine. As a bonus, I don't have to clean their systems from tons of malware, crapware, countless browser bars and viruses anymore. A slightly bigger problem if a said person needs office programs, because going from MS Office to Libre/Open Office is still not straightforward for most users.
My mom had been using Linux for basic spreadsheet work and browsing. Yes, it needs setup and configuration; but that's true of any OS.
Also, Windows has annoying forced restarts and takes a long time to update. And it doesn't have a package manager. And drivers need to be annoying--needless waiting even for simple devices like a USB keyboard.
Also, Windows has annoying forced restarts and takes a long time to update. And it doesn't have a package manager. And drivers need to be annoying--needless waiting even for simple devices like a USB keyboard.
If all they need is a browser and open office I think linux is far superior in being hardened against mothers and other non-it folk.
Problems come if they need more or are used to another OS.
Problems come if they need more or are used to another OS.
Nice way to troll a list of anecdotes. But you are still right.
> Linux is good and all, but come on people, among iOS, MacOS, Windows, Chrome and Linux, it's the least usable and least user friendly.
ChromeOS is Linux. The principal difference between ChromeOS and Ubuntu is that if you want to run something other than Chrome then on Ubuntu you may and on ChromeOS you don't.
And the likes of Ubuntu have been easier to use than Windows for five years or more. The utility of Windows is if you need Windows-exclusive software or hardware, not that it's easier to use. And if that's your problem then you can't have ChromeOS or MacOS/iOS either.
You also can't lawfully install MacOS or iOS on the computers your family already has.
ChromeOS is Linux. The principal difference between ChromeOS and Ubuntu is that if you want to run something other than Chrome then on Ubuntu you may and on ChromeOS you don't.
And the likes of Ubuntu have been easier to use than Windows for five years or more. The utility of Windows is if you need Windows-exclusive software or hardware, not that it's easier to use. And if that's your problem then you can't have ChromeOS or MacOS/iOS either.
You also can't lawfully install MacOS or iOS on the computers your family already has.
sclb(1)
Available desktop environments for Linux are nowhere near ready for wide consumer use, and hardware support is abysmal compared to macOS and Windows.
Linux is best for servers.
Linux is best for servers.
Linux hardware support is really good. Probably better than Windows and certainly better than macOS (which only has to support a very limited range of hardware).
I don't think you could call it better than Windows. A lot of wifi cards have issues, and my understanding is that printer support can be pretty bad too.
If you are using a Linux machine I'd still recommend that you double check for driver support on any hardware you buy. You can expect it to be okay but you should still check. You generally don't need to check for Windows, you can just assume and you will be right every time.
If you are using a Linux machine I'd still recommend that you double check for driver support on any hardware you buy. You can expect it to be okay but you should still check. You generally don't need to check for Windows, you can just assume and you will be right every time.
My experience with the last few printers I've bought is that with Ubuntu they've been recognised out of the box, while with Windows we've had to download massive driver packages from the manufacturer website before anything would work properly.
Haven't had a problem with wifi for a decade.
Double-checking for driver support is probably still worthwhile, but it's rare for it to be an issue these days, but I'd say it applies for Windows as well. Pretty much everything will have drivers for Windows, but their quality can be abysmal and you have require additional downloads.
Haven't had a problem with wifi for a decade.
Double-checking for driver support is probably still worthwhile, but it's rare for it to be an issue these days, but I'd say it applies for Windows as well. Pretty much everything will have drivers for Windows, but their quality can be abysmal and you have require additional downloads.
> I don't think you could call it better than Windows.
It depends on the hardware. There is a lot of hardware that is still supported by Linux but has no drivers for any current Windows versions, because OEMs have no incentive to retroactively create drivers for new Windows versions for last year's hardware.
It depends on the hardware. There is a lot of hardware that is still supported by Linux but has no drivers for any current Windows versions, because OEMs have no incentive to retroactively create drivers for new Windows versions for last year's hardware.
Win10 choked on my 7990 and an onboard NIC two or three months ago. Same machine with Linux Mint? Totally fine out of the box. After about 2007, I just stopped having hardware problems on Linux. I fully did not expect to start having hardware problems with plain jane hardware on later versions of Windows, though.
The only reason Linux has occasional issues with hardware support is because people install it on machines that were originally shipped with another OS. The OEM OS likely had all kinds of hardware problems but the manufacturer resolved them before shipping that particular configuration.
it is better out of the box. Go ahead and disconnect from the internet your computers, and do a simple A/B testing between Windows and a Linux distro and see how many can recognize your USB devices without installing anything. Linux wins hands down.
It's not the kernel which is at fault, but archaic software architecture. Eg. X11 and vsync tearing.
I was unable to fix it for two-monitor setups reliably in 4 years. It will not go away until Wayland is properly supporting nvidia, which might be another 5 years. So there is that.
I was unable to fix it for two-monitor setups reliably in 4 years. It will not go away until Wayland is properly supporting nvidia, which might be another 5 years. So there is that.
It absolutely is not. There are constant driver failures on any Linux desktop. Your claim is completely baseless.
You literally have to find a "linux compatible" laptop, or else you risk running into constant driver problems. Not so with Windows, at least, and macOS comes on its own hardware.
You literally have to find a "linux compatible" laptop, or else you risk running into constant driver problems. Not so with Windows, at least, and macOS comes on its own hardware.
[deleted]
Have you even used Linux?
I'm a software engineer, and I have no idea what "is your device up to date?" means.
Does that mean do I have the latest iPhone, or do I have the latest device drivers (I think I have heard that from Windows users).
Not too sure there.
Does that mean do I have the latest iPhone, or do I have the latest device drivers (I think I have heard that from Windows users).
Not too sure there.
I thought it was just going to be an amazon affiliate link to a Chromebook.
The last step should be replaced by some sort of autogenerated https://lmgtfy.com link. :)
An automatic lmgtfy link? How meta :) I find this tool to be subtely-less-insulting to the end-user than lmgtfy, especially if they don't happen to read the blog post where it says[0]: "Just send the link to anyone who takes up a bit too much of your valuable time."
[0]https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-too...
[0]https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-too...
When you type in a problem, don't open google in a different window.
I'm technical, and I didn't notice the new window (tab actually) till much later - I just thought the site was broken and ignored what I typed.
Someone non-technical is for sure not going to notice it.
I'm technical, and I didn't notice the new window (tab actually) till much later - I just thought the site was broken and ignored what I typed.
Someone non-technical is for sure not going to notice it.
I think you may as well say "Sorry, I'm not going to help you. Search Google. Bye."
It's annoying being asked to help with support, but if it's someone I care about I would never send them this.
Maybe I'm missing the joke?
It's annoying being asked to help with support, but if it's someone I care about I would never send them this.
Maybe I'm missing the joke?
One thing I'd particularly like when dealing with my parents' issues is an _easy_ way to set up remote screenshare and access. It's one thing when the problem is that their computer isn't booting (in which this site would definitely help ;)), but another if the problem is that they can't find a file they downloaded or something like that.
I'd pay for a tool like this that was easy to set up and use that didn't have to involve my parents installing TeamViewer, coordinating a channel, and so on.
Edit: Thanks for the advice all, will install one of these suggestions when I head home for the holidays.
I'd pay for a tool like this that was easy to set up and use that didn't have to involve my parents installing TeamViewer, coordinating a channel, and so on.
Edit: Thanks for the advice all, will install one of these suggestions when I head home for the holidays.
If you both have macs, it's built in, but sort of hidden.
Just open up messages on both computer -> go to your parents' contact -> click details -> click the button next to their name that looks like two screens (it's next to the video chat button). It'll ring on their computer, all they have to do is accept.
Edit: Apparently you can just spotlight search for the "screen sharing" application and just type in their apple id.
Just open up messages on both computer -> go to your parents' contact -> click details -> click the button next to their name that looks like two screens (it's next to the video chat button). It'll ring on their computer, all they have to do is accept.
Edit: Apparently you can just spotlight search for the "screen sharing" application and just type in their apple id.
I had my mom install Chrome Remote Desktop. Pretty easy to set up with some guidance over the phone, but probably easier if they already have a google account.
IIRC Fog Creek's Copilot was specifically for that purpose. Not sure how actively it's being maintained now thought.
https://www.copilot.com/
I had hopes that Screen Hero would fill that role before Slack bought them out. Still a great tool, wish it wasn't tied to Slack though.
https://www.copilot.com/
I had hopes that Screen Hero would fill that role before Slack bought them out. Still a great tool, wish it wasn't tied to Slack though.
I had my mom install the join.me app on her laptop and tablet. When she has problems she just types "join.me" in the browser (or opens the app) and reads me the join code over the phone.
In a couple minutes I find that disabled setting, or the app she installed but can't find, or clean up the crapware from the kitten screensaver she installed, and she's on her way.
In a couple minutes I find that disabled setting, or the app she installed but can't find, or clean up the crapware from the kitten screensaver she installed, and she's on her way.
I installed TeamViewer for them and set it up to allow remote access from my account, with a safe password. I can access their computer without their involvement. It doesn't get any easier than that.
FYI it's "power cord" not "power chord".
Power chord is a music thing.
Power cord is a cord that supplies power.
Power chord is a music thing.
Power cord is a cord that supplies power.
Tech support for my family is usually "WiFi is not working", "WiFi is working only on his device and not mine", "WiFi is turning on and of randomly and constantly". I hate WiFi :) . It is almost impossible to debug and usually ends in rebooting all involved devices, sometimes it helps.
I looked at grammable.me to see what it is.
Looks like instapainting.com arbitrage, I wonder how long that will be viable.
Looks like instapainting.com arbitrage, I wonder how long that will be viable.
I thought about it too. I checked the WHOIS record :
Domain Name: GRAMMABLE.ME
Registry Domain ID: D425500000001103903-AGRS
Registrar WHOIS Server:
Registrar URL: www.namecheap.com
Updated Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:27Z
Creation Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:19Z
grammable.me was registered a few weeks after the [indiehacker article on instapainting](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting) buzzed on HN about a month ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 .
Don't know what to think about it, looks like a bit unfair to me to copy cat someone who decided to share so much of his experience.
I would love to know what Chris Chen (instapainting founder) and Courtland Allen (indie hacker founder) think about it. Personally I really enjoy reading indie hacker stories, I find it very inspiring. It would be a shame people stop sharing their success because some guys copy cat them...
Domain Name: GRAMMABLE.ME
Registry Domain ID: D425500000001103903-AGRS
Registrar WHOIS Server:
Registrar URL: www.namecheap.com
Updated Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:27Z
Creation Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:19Z
grammable.me was registered a few weeks after the [indiehacker article on instapainting](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting) buzzed on HN about a month ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 .
Don't know what to think about it, looks like a bit unfair to me to copy cat someone who decided to share so much of his experience.
I would love to know what Chris Chen (instapainting founder) and Courtland Allen (indie hacker founder) think about it. Personally I really enjoy reading indie hacker stories, I find it very inspiring. It would be a shame people stop sharing their success because some guys copy cat them...
Also looks like a similar attempt to SEO and get customers by posting unrelated techie stuff under the same domain -- cf. instapainting discussion in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767.
I can't even load it, it freezes my laptop and forces me to reboot or wait for 2 minutes before Chrome prompts me to kill the tab. (Intel Celeron N3160 + 4GB RAM)
Anybody else find this too cute and patronizing? Its the guy saying "You're an idiot and I'm too smart and busy to be bothered by family. Your problems don't matter."
No, not really. Deal with a handful of end users and all of sudden this makes a heap of sense.
Whether it makes sense or not is beside the point. Its insulting to be treated like a child. That's unarguable.
You should add an option to add questions. If you crowdsource it, you could end up with a giant support-question tree!
Then it could be fun AND useful :)
See [1] for a similar idea, but applied to guessing animals.
See [2] for a more serious approach.
[1] http://www.animalgame.com/
[2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/09521976929...
Then it could be fun AND useful :)
See [1] for a similar idea, but applied to guessing animals.
See [2] for a more serious approach.
[1] http://www.animalgame.com/
[2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/09521976929...
I'm not sure why "No" is dark; it almost looks like it's pre-clicked. Is the idea to trick them into doing what it asked?
Another common issue is if the device needs to be plugged in that the outlet or power strip is not receiving power.
This reminds me of https://xkcd.com/627/. I think both both these 'tools' could be expanded a bit to be more useful (though maybe less humorous). Though one issue with less tech-knowledgable people is that they may have trouble following some instructions from Google and the like.
>Have you tried turning it on and off again?
It seems that the tool is inspired by the 'IT crowd'. IRL, unfortunately people may skip the first steps thinking that they are taken as idiots.
It seems that the tool is inspired by the 'IT crowd'. IRL, unfortunately people may skip the first steps thinking that they are taken as idiots.
This didn't help me with my high-load mongodb server issue... :(
Honestly turning it off and back on again usually helps the mongodbs :/
90% of my family support requests are caused by updating software.
Fun machine that will cut your family and friends tech support time completely:
An iPad.
/thread
An iPad.
/thread
The easiest way to fix my family and friends' tech support time was buying them a Mac. Even better, moving the trickier ones to Chromebooks. Nobody calls anymore.
Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/627/
I wasn't sure what to expect when it asked me to type my problem in: when that tab opened that gave me a good laugh haha. So true.
Is my system up to date? Yes I'm running the latest vanilla kernel and latest atheros firmware and my wifi connectivity still sucks.
nice work.
would be cool (albeit maybe difficult), to summarize the best result instead of taking them to Google directly. i suspect anyone using this page who gets to the Google results page will have no idea where to stat when they get there.
a less interesting solution would maybe be to provide a video that explains how to Google solutions for technical issues & error messages.
would be cool (albeit maybe difficult), to summarize the best result instead of taking them to Google directly. i suspect anyone using this page who gets to the Google results page will have no idea where to stat when they get there.
a less interesting solution would maybe be to provide a video that explains how to Google solutions for technical issues & error messages.
Yea that would be awesome. Maybe I can work on it in the next version.
It's interesting that the nr1 most common problem with a computer is the internal state, so it has to be restarted.
But you still need a paper/offline version, for when they call to tell you that the Internet is down.
This site is blocked by Fortiguard at my workplace, just FYI.
can I suggest a question to ask what software they are using. Then append it to your google search. So, it would look like "Excel copy and paste"
Equal parts tongue-in-cheek and time-saving.
I did all and it's still not working
What is not working?
I don't know but it's not working
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
appelza(1)
> Have you tried turning it on and off again?
Um. Joke on the first question? Or typo?
Um. Joke on the first question? Or typo?
I put "[expletive] everywhere" as a joke for describing the problem with the phone, and then it google searched that, resulting in a hard command + W.
lame.
lame.
The issue was that the power plug was in the socket, but too loose to connect. Somehow, the support person figured this was the case (prior experience?) and knew that if he asked "is it plugged in?" he would get a "yes". Taking the power plug out and putting it back in ensured that it would be in properly. But just asking the person to do that can be faced with push-back or even a lie that they did it (since the power plug obviously was already connected).
I always chuckled at the story but did not think it was true. I worked tech support while attending university. One time, I had an on-site where the monitor just stopped working. We went through the standard question on the phone, including asking if it is plugged in, and of course it was. Could not get it fixed over the phone. Once on-site, it turned out it was a loose power cable.
I could have avoided an on-site had I only asked them to blow the dust out of the power cable. Maybe this should be added to the questionnaire.