Ask HN: How do you avoid dopamine addiction on social media?
110 comments
I did two things recently cause I've wasted just about half my life on reddit:
- Blocked reddit at a dns level across my entire network via pihole (I run a personal vlan so the rest of the house network wasn't affected).
- Disable my internet completely on this vlan after working hours via a schedule in pfsense.
I get around the reddit block sometimes by enabling a VPN, which is only a few button clicks. But since this work around causes me extra steps, it makes me pause to think 'do I really want to aimlessly browse reddit?' which the answer is usually no, so I usually stop in my tracks there and get back to work/whatever.
The entire internet being cut was more about configuring a sleep schedule instead of blocking dopamine.
The big take away: make it hard to access the content. The extra step makes you mindful of your time.
- Blocked reddit at a dns level across my entire network via pihole (I run a personal vlan so the rest of the house network wasn't affected).
- Disable my internet completely on this vlan after working hours via a schedule in pfsense.
I get around the reddit block sometimes by enabling a VPN, which is only a few button clicks. But since this work around causes me extra steps, it makes me pause to think 'do I really want to aimlessly browse reddit?' which the answer is usually no, so I usually stop in my tracks there and get back to work/whatever.
The entire internet being cut was more about configuring a sleep schedule instead of blocking dopamine.
The big take away: make it hard to access the content. The extra step makes you mindful of your time.
Reddit is also my biggest weakness, though in my opinion it's a special case of social media where it can be (occasionally) a very useful source for information. Coincidentally there's another thread on the front page right now about how Google search results have become increasingly worse quality over the last few years [0], I often find myself adding "site:reddit.com" to search queries to weed out all the crappy clickbait and algo-generated sites that seem to permeate the first few pages of search results these days.
It's definitely not without it's problems (e.g. I'm certain there are company-managed accounts stealth promoting products in smaller subreddits, so take any product recommendations with a grain of salt) but I do seem to trust content on reddit more than what I get through googling general queries.
And I don't think I can say all this stuff without reflecting on how it's a really sad state of affairs and shaking my fist angrily at adtech which is probably how we arrived in this situation.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29772136
Edit: Just saw there's another reply to this posted while I wrote the above which highlights the same problem. It's certainly a space which is begging for some disruption.
It's definitely not without it's problems (e.g. I'm certain there are company-managed accounts stealth promoting products in smaller subreddits, so take any product recommendations with a grain of salt) but I do seem to trust content on reddit more than what I get through googling general queries.
And I don't think I can say all this stuff without reflecting on how it's a really sad state of affairs and shaking my fist angrily at adtech which is probably how we arrived in this situation.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29772136
Edit: Just saw there's another reply to this posted while I wrote the above which highlights the same problem. It's certainly a space which is begging for some disruption.
Personally, I found Leechblock to provide adequate extra steps for what you're describing. I agree with your point, what generally needs to be done is adding some sort of brain-teasing inconvenience. Adding some sort of "roadblock" against your brain going auto-pilot is what always helped me making more conscious decisions.
I tried leechblock as well and it works well, but I ended up getting around it too easy. Setting up a barrier at the network level worked better for my brain.
> Blocked reddit
Seems a rather bad idea to me because the most practically valuable search results you can get from Google usually are yielded when you add site:reddit.com to the search query.
Seems a rather bad idea to me because the most practically valuable search results you can get from Google usually are yielded when you add site:reddit.com to the search query.
Yes, I've ran into that issue. If I'm trying to solve a problem and reddit's the only source of a solution, that's when I enable the VPN.
Sounds reasonable. Adding an extra step of complexity on the way to getting there can probably make a difference and make you less likely to go there when you don't really need to.
I've used rule-based blockers in the past that would let me block the home/feed pages of sites but not individual article pages. That way search links still work but I can't go zombie out. Might be worth a try.
There are no cool tricks to improving yourself. If you want to stop eating sugar then stop eating it. If you want to stop drinking alcohol stop drinking it. If you want to get fit start exercising. If you want to stop being addicted to social media then delete it. You can make all the excuses about how you need it to stay in contact with friends, or deals on the local market, or find events in groups but in the end if you delete it you'll continue living and everything will be fine. If you think it's affecting you negatively, get rid of it, and do the myriad of other things that exist in this world.
> There are no cool tricks to improving yourself.
This is bullshit. There are lots of simple tricks you can employ to improve yourself. For example:
>If you want to stop eating sugar
If you want to stop eating sugar, throw it all away, and when you go to the supermarket go when you have just eaten, and avoid buying sugar and sugary products.
This gets recommended a lot, but because it is good - Atomic Habits by James Clear.
This is bullshit. There are lots of simple tricks you can employ to improve yourself. For example:
>If you want to stop eating sugar
If you want to stop eating sugar, throw it all away, and when you go to the supermarket go when you have just eaten, and avoid buying sugar and sugary products.
This gets recommended a lot, but because it is good - Atomic Habits by James Clear.
"""If you want to stop eating sugar, throw it all away, and when you go to the supermarket go when you have just eaten, and avoid buying sugar and sugary products."""
So much easier when you live alone. My spouse buys sugary crap for my kids and then I have to resist all the time. Which I can't. Thus I am overweight.
So much easier when you live alone. My spouse buys sugary crap for my kids and then I have to resist all the time. Which I can't. Thus I am overweight.
Well it sounds like you need to discuss things with your spouse. If she doesn't want to stop buying sugary crap, then ask them to put it in a locked cupboard, and them to keep the key.
If your spouse doesn't want to collaborate with you on your goals and things related to your health, then you have some serious discussions to have.
If your spouse doesn't want to collaborate with you on your goals and things related to your health, then you have some serious discussions to have.
Here's a simple trick - stop shifting the blame on other people.
I really don't get your defeatist attitude:
1. You don't have the willpower to stop eating sugary stuff
2. You don't have the willpower to have a conversation with your spouse to stop buying sugary crap
3. Barring 1 or 2, you aren't talking to your kids to convince them to stop demanding less sugary stuff or aren't presenting them with tasty alternatives.
I'm sure in response to this I'll get a lot of angry replies to the tune of "it's not so simple" or "I don't have enough time for that" or "willpower theory is a myth".
I really don't get your defeatist attitude:
1. You don't have the willpower to stop eating sugary stuff
2. You don't have the willpower to have a conversation with your spouse to stop buying sugary crap
3. Barring 1 or 2, you aren't talking to your kids to convince them to stop demanding less sugary stuff or aren't presenting them with tasty alternatives.
I'm sure in response to this I'll get a lot of angry replies to the tune of "it's not so simple" or "I don't have enough time for that" or "willpower theory is a myth".
I agree that will is required; the trick though is recognizing where to apply it. I think 1 is a losing strategy. 2 is an excellent starting point, but it might be blocked by another bad practice of some kind...so maybe that needs to be identified and fixed first. I guess the point is that, like that old joke[0], having the hammer is not enough -- knowing what bit to bang on is also critical.
[0]:https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/06/tap/
[0]:https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/06/tap/
Do you think you could communicate them that it's ok to have treats as long as they stay outside the house? Seems like they don't yet know or understand your underlying need to keep them out of the house.
Talk to your kids :)
Also, suggest lower-calorie snacks.
Also, suggest lower-calorie snacks.
> Which I can't.
C’mon, just say no
C’mon, just say no
So the cool trick to not eating sugar is... not eating any sugar.
No, it is two steps before that: re-arranging your day-to-day so that there is no sugar to eat.
No, there is a lot around that, which results in not eating any sugar.
It's really simple and intuitive once you actually think about it. If you found yourself in a situation in which eating sugar was more effort you would be less prone to doing it. Not doing something makes it easier to not doing it afterwards too.
Treatment of any addiction steers right away from the "just don't". It's silly, humans just don't work by simply willing things into place harder and harder, they can either just do things or not, in the former case it's not a problem and in the latter there are things that work and can transition into the former.
It's really simple and intuitive once you actually think about it. If you found yourself in a situation in which eating sugar was more effort you would be less prone to doing it. Not doing something makes it easier to not doing it afterwards too.
Treatment of any addiction steers right away from the "just don't". It's silly, humans just don't work by simply willing things into place harder and harder, they can either just do things or not, in the former case it's not a problem and in the latter there are things that work and can transition into the former.
> There are no cool tricks to improving yourself.
This is simply not true. There are tons of tricks and strategies. For me, the best strategy is to replace a bad habit with a good one. For example, replace going to the bar after work with going for a run after work.
This is simply not true. There are tons of tricks and strategies. For me, the best strategy is to replace a bad habit with a good one. For example, replace going to the bar after work with going for a run after work.
Isn't this just not going to the bar, except reframed using the somewhat nebulous concept of "habits" that are implied to be some sort of external force that steers our fate and determines our action, not entirely dissimilar to the gods of old.
As much as my brain would like to agree with you and find the black and white more calming of a world to live in, at least for one of these examples I’ve found it untrue in a practical sense.
I’m now 5 years from any sucrose or fructose and I’m getting pretty close to totally zero carbohydrate. I’ve tried dozens of times over decades to “eat less sugar”. Until I learned about how eating fat will help satiate me (not saying it’ll work for everyone but it worked for me), I was unable to successfully eat less or no sugar.
I’m now 5 years from any sucrose or fructose and I’m getting pretty close to totally zero carbohydrate. I’ve tried dozens of times over decades to “eat less sugar”. Until I learned about how eating fat will help satiate me (not saying it’ll work for everyone but it worked for me), I was unable to successfully eat less or no sugar.
There are plenty of tricks to make improving yourself easier. I could list dozens, especially with respect to eating, drinking, and exercising.
As for social media, I'm not aware of as many, and I'm guessing the OP isn't either, which prompted his post.
As for social media, I'm not aware of as many, and I'm guessing the OP isn't either, which prompted his post.
When I got my new phone I never installed Instagram, Facebook or TikTok.
I kept the social media apps on my old phone only, so that one became my 'social media phone's instead of my main phone.
I kept the social media apps on my old phone only, so that one became my 'social media phone's instead of my main phone.
> I could list dozens
Please do.
Please do.
What I mean by "tricks" is that there's only one thing that matters and that's doing it. You're right that there are efficient methods but I certainly have spent a lot of time researching "the best methods" before realising that the most important thing is to actually just start and then everything works out fine later. Everything else is an excuse to put off doing it.
And sometimes the inability to start (or to persist) is caused by preexisting conditions and it’s helpful to get medication or other help to overcome it.
I agree with you in some sense but stopping a bad habit immediately works for some but not for most people. That's why we have so many businesses that are setup to help you beat a bad habit. There is no one way to beat it that's effective for all.
One that I've found is effective to me is to replace the habit with some other habit. One that's beneficial. Example, every time you feel the need to go on social media replace social media with reading. Be sure to have a book at hand. Or a quick 1 minute or so workout. I heard of a guy that curled dumbbells, 10 reps. He got huge biceps. I don't know if it helped his habit but he sure got results. Think of something beneficial to you that you want to improve. You might fail at first but keep at it you'll succeed.
One that I've found is effective to me is to replace the habit with some other habit. One that's beneficial. Example, every time you feel the need to go on social media replace social media with reading. Be sure to have a book at hand. Or a quick 1 minute or so workout. I heard of a guy that curled dumbbells, 10 reps. He got huge biceps. I don't know if it helped his habit but he sure got results. Think of something beneficial to you that you want to improve. You might fail at first but keep at it you'll succeed.
I disagree that there are no cool tricks. See my answer below.
I do agree that simply stop doing the thing is great, but that doesn't seem to work for many people. It can sound ridiculous if you have the will power, but if it were that simple we would have few overweight people, no addicts in the world, etc.
I do agree that simply stop doing the thing is great, but that doesn't seem to work for many people. It can sound ridiculous if you have the will power, but if it were that simple we would have few overweight people, no addicts in the world, etc.
It is simple. It's just not easy. Lots of cool tricks and yet all the addicts are still there. The most important thing is to start. I even think talking too much about it is a negative because it feels like you're heading towards your goal without actually having done something. Spending lots of time talking and researching uses up energy and makes you feel like you've achived something when you actually haven't done anything at all.
Agree in concept, but now moving goal post? First mentioned that "there are no cool tricks". Many addicts _don't know_ about the tricks to help, and many of them are helped when they do have them.
I agree that I've seen many fall into the trap of thinking they have done something when they haven't done anything at all, but that's completely a separate discussion than using behavior psychology to your advantage.
I agree that I've seen many fall into the trap of thinking they have done something when they haven't done anything at all, but that's completely a separate discussion than using behavior psychology to your advantage.
This is needlessly nihilistic. Increment is key. Stopping cold on learned habits and sensory comforts is neurologically difficult. At the first sniff of strife we reach for them as comfort. Incrementally changing input over time is the only manner compatible with how we work.
You didn't dig yourself into a metaphorical hole with a single bite of a shovel, so expecting to step out of it in one go doesn't work. Steps in and steps out.
You didn't dig yourself into a metaphorical hole with a single bite of a shovel, so expecting to step out of it in one go doesn't work. Steps in and steps out.
> There are no cool tricks to improving yourself.
There are and many have been invented very long ago.
Arguably, the concept of "sin" in its original meaning was not a crime but a miss, like when you get disturbed by something and shoot a wrong way rather than straight your target. St. Ignatius of Loyola (the founder of the religious order of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits) never meant his followers to be punished for every sin they commit, he in fact wisely expected them to commit numerous sins every day and train themselves to commit less of them gradually. As taught in his "Spiritual Exercises" scripture (which is the fundamental book of a Jesuit training) one should select one particular sin (eating sugar when not actually starving qualifies by all definitions) they want to fight at the time, do their best observing themselves, draw dots for every time they commit it, connect the dots with a line, recall the cases and observe the daily progress they make. Doing just this can be very effective for many. I encourage to study this text even if you are an atheist, for sake of extracting applicable psycho-technology and some philosophy to think about perhaps. If you consider yourself a Christian I would recommend that particularly strongly as it teaches exactly what to do to progress on your way to Salvation.
> If you want to stop eating sugar then stop eating it.
The problem is there is no single solid "you".
The first lie we tell ourselves is when we say 'I'. It is a lie because in saying 'I' we presume certain things: we presume a certain unity and a certain power. And if I say 'I' today and say 'I' to-morrow, it is supposed to be the same 'I', when in reality there is no connection between them. We are in this present state because of certain obstacles or certain facts in ourselves, and the most important fact that we do not understand is that we have no right to say 'I', for it will be a lie. When you begin to observe yourself you will see that it is really so: there are 'I's in you which do not know one another and never come into contact. For instance, begin to study your likes and dislikes and you will see that you can like one thing one moment and like another thing another moment, and the two are so opposed to one another that you will realize at once that those 'I's never meet. If you observe your decisions you will see that one 'I' decides and another has to carry out the decision, and this one is either unwilling to do it or never heard about it. (Peter D. Ouspensky, "The fourth way".)
The Jesuits' technique can hack this system by teaching the 'I' which makes the decision to persist awake.
Note that both the sources I cited have been written centuries ago :-) (both available on libgen nowadays)
Needless to say, in many cases there also are simple psychological and/or chemical solutions. Many can greatly decrease their craving to specific foods (or foods at all) by adjusting their diet to contain more of specific substances (i.e. specific vitamins, fiber, fatty acids, proteins) or by just healing some specific stress-inducing psychological trauma with assistance of a good psychotherapist.
There are and many have been invented very long ago.
Arguably, the concept of "sin" in its original meaning was not a crime but a miss, like when you get disturbed by something and shoot a wrong way rather than straight your target. St. Ignatius of Loyola (the founder of the religious order of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits) never meant his followers to be punished for every sin they commit, he in fact wisely expected them to commit numerous sins every day and train themselves to commit less of them gradually. As taught in his "Spiritual Exercises" scripture (which is the fundamental book of a Jesuit training) one should select one particular sin (eating sugar when not actually starving qualifies by all definitions) they want to fight at the time, do their best observing themselves, draw dots for every time they commit it, connect the dots with a line, recall the cases and observe the daily progress they make. Doing just this can be very effective for many. I encourage to study this text even if you are an atheist, for sake of extracting applicable psycho-technology and some philosophy to think about perhaps. If you consider yourself a Christian I would recommend that particularly strongly as it teaches exactly what to do to progress on your way to Salvation.
> If you want to stop eating sugar then stop eating it.
The problem is there is no single solid "you".
The first lie we tell ourselves is when we say 'I'. It is a lie because in saying 'I' we presume certain things: we presume a certain unity and a certain power. And if I say 'I' today and say 'I' to-morrow, it is supposed to be the same 'I', when in reality there is no connection between them. We are in this present state because of certain obstacles or certain facts in ourselves, and the most important fact that we do not understand is that we have no right to say 'I', for it will be a lie. When you begin to observe yourself you will see that it is really so: there are 'I's in you which do not know one another and never come into contact. For instance, begin to study your likes and dislikes and you will see that you can like one thing one moment and like another thing another moment, and the two are so opposed to one another that you will realize at once that those 'I's never meet. If you observe your decisions you will see that one 'I' decides and another has to carry out the decision, and this one is either unwilling to do it or never heard about it. (Peter D. Ouspensky, "The fourth way".)
The Jesuits' technique can hack this system by teaching the 'I' which makes the decision to persist awake.
Note that both the sources I cited have been written centuries ago :-) (both available on libgen nowadays)
Needless to say, in many cases there also are simple psychological and/or chemical solutions. Many can greatly decrease their craving to specific foods (or foods at all) by adjusting their diet to contain more of specific substances (i.e. specific vitamins, fiber, fatty acids, proteins) or by just healing some specific stress-inducing psychological trauma with assistance of a good psychotherapist.
[deleted]
> A complete deletion is not really an option since I enjoy Twitter, Reddit, HN to stay up-to-date with the tech world :)
For me, there are two primary negative aspects of social media and two "cancellations" (at least partial) to address them:
- The time lost to not even slightly productive content like memes and anime fanart. The solution for me was to cut Reddit out entirely since I was primarily subscribed to such content there. Most of the time that was spent on Reddit is now spent reading books (which at least improve my vocabulary) or watching educational YouTube videos about maths, science, electronics or CNC machining. I consider this problem mostly solved.
- The stress, frustration and hopelessness of participating in online discussions. My solution has been to try and reduce the frequency with which I interact with people on HN and other platforms. When I do interact, I try (not always successfully) to avoid controversial topics and to engage in such a way that the chances of conflict are minimal. For example instead of saying "you should use X", I'd say something like "I'm surprised you're not using X, how come you decided to use Y instead?". This has mostly addressed the problem, when I have issues now it's usually because I made the mistake of commenting on something somewhat controversial (e.g. touching anything to do with COVID).
For me, there are two primary negative aspects of social media and two "cancellations" (at least partial) to address them:
- The time lost to not even slightly productive content like memes and anime fanart. The solution for me was to cut Reddit out entirely since I was primarily subscribed to such content there. Most of the time that was spent on Reddit is now spent reading books (which at least improve my vocabulary) or watching educational YouTube videos about maths, science, electronics or CNC machining. I consider this problem mostly solved.
- The stress, frustration and hopelessness of participating in online discussions. My solution has been to try and reduce the frequency with which I interact with people on HN and other platforms. When I do interact, I try (not always successfully) to avoid controversial topics and to engage in such a way that the chances of conflict are minimal. For example instead of saying "you should use X", I'd say something like "I'm surprised you're not using X, how come you decided to use Y instead?". This has mostly addressed the problem, when I have issues now it's usually because I made the mistake of commenting on something somewhat controversial (e.g. touching anything to do with COVID).
Giving up or blocking social media is much less interesting than being self-aware and looking for ways to get your social media dopamine from things that feel genuinely constructive or interesting. I found “Against Waldenponding” (https://studio.ribbonfarm.com/p/against-waldenponding) to be, if not 100% correct and credible, at least a very novel and persuasive argument that you probably owe it to yourself to be on social media more, not less, and its up to you to not be stupid about it.
My personal guidelines (not rules) for Being Online have evolved to something like this:
1. Make things, and talk about the things you make.
2. Contribute ideas that, as far as you can see, would be missing from the world if you specifically didn’t offer them.
3. Spend a lot of time reading other people.
4. Throw points at people you agree with. Upvotes and twitter likes are free. Use dollars, too.
5. If you can’t think of anything to say, go make something tangible worth talking about.
6. Keep your feed weighted towards people who seem to follow these guidelines.
7. Be aware that, absent any truly original ideas, anything you would post with the motive of “being right online” is usually basic and shitty. Filter outbound material with prejudice.
My personal guidelines (not rules) for Being Online have evolved to something like this:
1. Make things, and talk about the things you make.
2. Contribute ideas that, as far as you can see, would be missing from the world if you specifically didn’t offer them.
3. Spend a lot of time reading other people.
4. Throw points at people you agree with. Upvotes and twitter likes are free. Use dollars, too.
5. If you can’t think of anything to say, go make something tangible worth talking about.
6. Keep your feed weighted towards people who seem to follow these guidelines.
7. Be aware that, absent any truly original ideas, anything you would post with the motive of “being right online” is usually basic and shitty. Filter outbound material with prejudice.
> https://studio.ribbonfarm.com/p/against-waldenponding
> Premise: FOMO is good. Being plugged in is good. There is valuable info at all levels from twitter gossip to philosophy books. You should stay plugged in. You can manage anxiety and beat the House without resorting to shaming social platforms into managing attention for you. That's a terrible yielding of agency.
> What the "unplug for self-care" crowd doesn't get is that you are part of a Giant Social Computer in the Cloud (GSCITC) computing the future. The level and latency at which you consume information and act on it determines your "job" in the social computer. Your shitposting and FOMO are functional.
> The reason the unplugging doesn't work for most people is not that the Evil Platform Companies are trying to hack your attention and turn you into a helpless addict (though they are) but because you rationally realize you need a job in the GSCITC.
I stopped reading shortly after as the article did indeed rely on the above premises, and I find those premises absurd.
I work in cloud software, I live in Western Europe, a large chunk of my friends are an international/academic crowd. Nevertheless, of the happiest and/or successful and/or admirable people I've met, barely any of them use social media to an appreciable extent. They might share a cool tattoo from Instagram or belong to a Facebook group for their hobbies or post their latest hike on Relive, but that's about it.
None of them, as far as I know, spends a single minute a day reading "Twitter gossip". They are most definetely not "plugged in". I cannot think of a single way in which their lives are worse as a result.
If you find the article persuasive, I presume you do agree with the premise. Can you help me understand why?
> Premise: FOMO is good. Being plugged in is good. There is valuable info at all levels from twitter gossip to philosophy books. You should stay plugged in. You can manage anxiety and beat the House without resorting to shaming social platforms into managing attention for you. That's a terrible yielding of agency.
> What the "unplug for self-care" crowd doesn't get is that you are part of a Giant Social Computer in the Cloud (GSCITC) computing the future. The level and latency at which you consume information and act on it determines your "job" in the social computer. Your shitposting and FOMO are functional.
> The reason the unplugging doesn't work for most people is not that the Evil Platform Companies are trying to hack your attention and turn you into a helpless addict (though they are) but because you rationally realize you need a job in the GSCITC.
I stopped reading shortly after as the article did indeed rely on the above premises, and I find those premises absurd.
I work in cloud software, I live in Western Europe, a large chunk of my friends are an international/academic crowd. Nevertheless, of the happiest and/or successful and/or admirable people I've met, barely any of them use social media to an appreciable extent. They might share a cool tattoo from Instagram or belong to a Facebook group for their hobbies or post their latest hike on Relive, but that's about it.
None of them, as far as I know, spends a single minute a day reading "Twitter gossip". They are most definetely not "plugged in". I cannot think of a single way in which their lives are worse as a result.
If you find the article persuasive, I presume you do agree with the premise. Can you help me understand why?
> They are most definetely not "plugged in". I cannot think of a single way in which their lives are worse as a result.
It doesn’t sound from your description like these people are in any way part of the “unplugged for self-care” demographic. They sound plugged in, and they sound normal. By your own account they’re on Instagram at least enough to find and share cool things from time to time, they post online about their experiences and they connect with people online who share their interests. The “unplug for self care” people — the Waldenponders — would tell them that they are in danger of a dopamine addiction and need to give these things up. The article is against such advice. Your friends’ lives would be measurably worse if they took it.
But supposing they were actually off social media completely, you could see the flaw in this reasoning by extending it just a little further. If you still know anyone, as I do, who never even touches a computer, you probably find that they are perfectly content without one. Does it follow that it would be a good move for you, too, to get all computers and Internet usage out of your life? If not, why not?
Another way to put it: I know people who are extremely plugged in. I cannot think of a single way in which their lives would be better if they were not. Where does that leave us?
> If you find the article persuasive, I presume you do agree with the premise. Can you help me understand why?
In addition to the above, I would say this: it sounds like you might be equating “plugged in” with specifically shallow things like “Twitter gossip”. I am quite sure the author does not see it that way (I know I don’t).
It doesn’t sound from your description like these people are in any way part of the “unplugged for self-care” demographic. They sound plugged in, and they sound normal. By your own account they’re on Instagram at least enough to find and share cool things from time to time, they post online about their experiences and they connect with people online who share their interests. The “unplug for self care” people — the Waldenponders — would tell them that they are in danger of a dopamine addiction and need to give these things up. The article is against such advice. Your friends’ lives would be measurably worse if they took it.
But supposing they were actually off social media completely, you could see the flaw in this reasoning by extending it just a little further. If you still know anyone, as I do, who never even touches a computer, you probably find that they are perfectly content without one. Does it follow that it would be a good move for you, too, to get all computers and Internet usage out of your life? If not, why not?
Another way to put it: I know people who are extremely plugged in. I cannot think of a single way in which their lives would be better if they were not. Where does that leave us?
> If you find the article persuasive, I presume you do agree with the premise. Can you help me understand why?
In addition to the above, I would say this: it sounds like you might be equating “plugged in” with specifically shallow things like “Twitter gossip”. I am quite sure the author does not see it that way (I know I don’t).
Ok, the way you read the article is an idea I can agree with.
I still think the author's intent is more aggressive than you think, though. He repeatedly refers to Twitter bullshit as an example of low-density content he thinks one should consume, among other things. He also refers positively to extreme behaviours such as shitposting and FOMO. The creepy "become part of the GSCITC!" encouragement doesn't seem like it would fit passively browsing Instagram, it sounds like he expects active interactions.
I still think the author's intent is more aggressive than you think, though. He repeatedly refers to Twitter bullshit as an example of low-density content he thinks one should consume, among other things. He also refers positively to extreme behaviours such as shitposting and FOMO. The creepy "become part of the GSCITC!" encouragement doesn't seem like it would fit passively browsing Instagram, it sounds like he expects active interactions.
I believe he is writing to people like himself who are already shitposters and habitual trawlers at the low-density end of things. He is telling these people there is no point in forcing themselves downward off their natural level of online activity, and that in fact there are downsides to doing so. FOMO is functional in the sense that it is signaling to you that there are costs to self-isolation, and in fact you can conceive how FOMO evolves as a beneficial instinct in a social species.
The question of whether less-online people should force themselves to be much more online than they typically are is not something I think the article even contemplates; at least, I hadn’t considered it before now. I’ll probably ask the author on Twitter about it. But either way, that difference is probably key in explaining our differing responses to the article.
The question of whether less-online people should force themselves to be much more online than they typically are is not something I think the article even contemplates; at least, I hadn’t considered it before now. I’ll probably ask the author on Twitter about it. But either way, that difference is probably key in explaining our differing responses to the article.
Quitting social media is actually really interesting. My experience without facebook (I never had Twitter) for two years has been almost all positive. All you said is also reasonable but it’s a bit like saying that drug addicts should use drugs for fun. Some people need to quit, and they’ll be better that way. That doesn’t mean those who can manage should too; I envy you very much and wish all the best.
I quit Facebook too. But I was also able to rebalance my Twitter experience to contain more signal and less noise. Github is a great form of social media. And here we both are posting comments on Hacker News. Despite us both being very happy to leave Facebook, we’re also probably both familiar with the frisson of exchanging ideas online and are unwilling to give it up. Giving that up completely is really not as interesting as learning to manage it well.
Yup. Ultimately you are responsible4 for filtering your content.
I uninstalled all the apps from all social media platforms and only use the web version. This takes out a lot of the usability (and trackability). Making the whole experience slightly worse helps me reduce the time I spend on them.
I also removed Facebook and its other brands from the equation, and since those websites are unusable when unlogged, it's even easier to remove the temptation to dwell on them.
For Twitter, I also went to the settings of each person I follow and deactivated the displaying of their retweets, so my timeline (in the chronological mode) consists exclusively of content written by the people I follow.
I also removed Facebook and its other brands from the equation, and since those websites are unusable when unlogged, it's even easier to remove the temptation to dwell on them.
For Twitter, I also went to the settings of each person I follow and deactivated the displaying of their retweets, so my timeline (in the chronological mode) consists exclusively of content written by the people I follow.
I use ideas taken from behavioral psychology book, Nudge, but in reverse.
For instance, I use an extension that adds a 2 second delay to every Facebook page load. The added friction is small but it very quickly gets me frustrated and I just stop.
For instance, I use an extension that adds a 2 second delay to every Facebook page load. The added friction is small but it very quickly gets me frustrated and I just stop.
For Reddit and HN, I simply added some browser CSS that removed the "next page" links (on Reddit you'll need to use the old version for this to work).
Since I can browse the first page, that allows me to "cut back" on those distractions without going cold turkey.
Since I can browse the first page, that allows me to "cut back" on those distractions without going cold turkey.
This is quite interesting, what’s the extension called?
Here's one of them:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/delayed-gratificat...
I don't think 15 seconds is necessary, I like 1-2 seconds (the extension is on a different computer than I'm on -- this one just as a News Feed Eradicator to stop FB).
I don't think 15 seconds is necessary, I like 1-2 seconds (the extension is on a different computer than I'm on -- this one just as a News Feed Eradicator to stop FB).
This is something new for me I have never read or thought of it. That's a bit evil, but it could work through its viciousness
If I find that I'm doing too much A and I don't want to give up on it entirely I look for ways to make A less convenient. That may mean deleting an app (instead using a possibly clunkier website), not having candy in the house (I have to go to the store to get my fix), etc.
It's an extension of some typical advice to create healthy habits: make doing the right thing easier and the wrong thing harder.
It's an extension of some typical advice to create healthy habits: make doing the right thing easier and the wrong thing harder.
> make doing the right thing easier and the wrong thing harder.
I’ve never heard it put so succinctly! In the realm of breaking social media addiction I’ve tried to block all feeds on my laptop using chrome extensions, logout on mobile. To be honest: it’s the “make the right thing easier” that has been tricky for me. I’m trying to read more, but frankly post work tiredness does make diving into good books kind of tricky. Not 100% sure what the right “right thing” to replace social media in my life is yet.
I’ve never heard it put so succinctly! In the realm of breaking social media addiction I’ve tried to block all feeds on my laptop using chrome extensions, logout on mobile. To be honest: it’s the “make the right thing easier” that has been tricky for me. I’m trying to read more, but frankly post work tiredness does make diving into good books kind of tricky. Not 100% sure what the right “right thing” to replace social media in my life is yet.
I struggle with that as well. It's easy to point to the wrong things about social media (doomscrolling, say).
My solution for Twitter, which is a work in progress, was to create a second account that is focused on being more "positive"[0], and leave that one signed in. That makes the right thing easier. I use it to post jokes or interact with content creators that I enjoy. If I find myself wanting to interact with something that makes me feel angry, like some shitty thing a politician said, I think to myself: "which account do I want to use for this?" If it's the account I use for negative stuff I have to go through extra work to use it and then I don't bother. And nothing of value is lost.
I haven't found an ideal solution for reading. I bought a Kindle and have been using it every day but I don't know if it's because it's still shiny and new or because I've started a new habit. I do carry it with me throughout the house so it's pretty much always in view, which may help me consider doing the "right" thing (maybe pick it up instead of my phone).
0: Of course I'm assigning right and wrong, positive and negative, arbitrarily. That's ok for me because I'm not having a philosophical debate with myself, heh.
My solution for Twitter, which is a work in progress, was to create a second account that is focused on being more "positive"[0], and leave that one signed in. That makes the right thing easier. I use it to post jokes or interact with content creators that I enjoy. If I find myself wanting to interact with something that makes me feel angry, like some shitty thing a politician said, I think to myself: "which account do I want to use for this?" If it's the account I use for negative stuff I have to go through extra work to use it and then I don't bother. And nothing of value is lost.
I haven't found an ideal solution for reading. I bought a Kindle and have been using it every day but I don't know if it's because it's still shiny and new or because I've started a new habit. I do carry it with me throughout the house so it's pretty much always in view, which may help me consider doing the "right" thing (maybe pick it up instead of my phone).
0: Of course I'm assigning right and wrong, positive and negative, arbitrarily. That's ok for me because I'm not having a philosophical debate with myself, heh.
Absolutely: I think the one of the follow-on "secrets" after dealing with the bad habits is that you also have to pick the right good habits that will actually work for you. Take exercise. Some people love running; for me it's a horrible chore, but on the other hand I love long bike rides. Who knows why.
Maybe I think I "should" read a bunch of philosophy. But if it doesn't do anything for me, it won't develop into a habit. Maybe if I try a variation, like political philosophy, that will feel rewarding. And it might even lead back to the original thing.
The key I think on both the good habit and bad habit sides is being conscious of what you're doing. (Not to say this is easy though!) The new good habit you want can be hard but rewarding, or it can just be self-mortification, and you have to adjust somewhat to that reality.
Maybe I think I "should" read a bunch of philosophy. But if it doesn't do anything for me, it won't develop into a habit. Maybe if I try a variation, like political philosophy, that will feel rewarding. And it might even lead back to the original thing.
The key I think on both the good habit and bad habit sides is being conscious of what you're doing. (Not to say this is easy though!) The new good habit you want can be hard but rewarding, or it can just be self-mortification, and you have to adjust somewhat to that reality.
Personally, I've started using Busuu and Duolingo more. When I get the urge to go to reddit I try to divert and go to one of those two apps and do a couple of sections. It doesn't always work but it's something.
I try to be opinionated about which patterns of usage are both fun and productive, e.g. noticing how /r/all is full of unsatisfying material produces a conscious countervailing force to any subconscious desire to go there. I still use reddit a lot, but I do so by going to specific subreddits, e.g. by typing in programming.reddit.com instead of going to the generic entrypoint and allowing reddit's ranking and recommendation infrastructure do its thing. Sure, I'm still susceptible to it w.r.t ranking within subreddits and ranking within comments, but many of my subreddits of choice are smaller and so I end up seeing most of the recent content anyway.
Twitter and Facebook are too recommendation-intensive for me to use them on a daily basis. I follow a pretty small set of people on Twitter and my feed is still full of "people my followers interact with" and "things I might like". Facebook groups are usually too big for even the group-internal ranking to be very honest, although increasingly I find that going to Facebook for specific groups (similarly to going to reddit for specific subreddits) can be effective (at surfacing memes about new urbanism or Brian Eno).
Twitter and Facebook are too recommendation-intensive for me to use them on a daily basis. I follow a pretty small set of people on Twitter and my feed is still full of "people my followers interact with" and "things I might like". Facebook groups are usually too big for even the group-internal ranking to be very honest, although increasingly I find that going to Facebook for specific groups (similarly to going to reddit for specific subreddits) can be effective (at surfacing memes about new urbanism or Brian Eno).
I went on a big “social media diet” over the past couple years and it’s been amazing.
One trick I used successfully was, remove the apps from your Home Screen so you don’t see them.
Turn off emails, notifications, badge counts, etc so it isn’t constantly reminding you of its existence and is easier to forget.
Don’t leave the tabs open on your computer. There’s probably plug-ins that can shut the tabs after x amount of time.
For mobile, there are app time limit settings (iOS I think has this in the Settings page), intended for parental controls but hey you can use them too.
You don’t have to follow everybody or anybody. When you notice an app, a channel or a certain account is bothering you, consider muting or unfollowing them.
Consider finding other things like games, work, or books that you can absorb your full attention.
Remember, you are the boss. You can use it on your terms. You’ll realize very fast that FOMO does not really exist for these, when you stop using them constantly.
You can do this. You’re gonna feel a lot better on the other side, I guarantee it.
One trick I used successfully was, remove the apps from your Home Screen so you don’t see them.
Turn off emails, notifications, badge counts, etc so it isn’t constantly reminding you of its existence and is easier to forget.
Don’t leave the tabs open on your computer. There’s probably plug-ins that can shut the tabs after x amount of time.
For mobile, there are app time limit settings (iOS I think has this in the Settings page), intended for parental controls but hey you can use them too.
You don’t have to follow everybody or anybody. When you notice an app, a channel or a certain account is bothering you, consider muting or unfollowing them.
Consider finding other things like games, work, or books that you can absorb your full attention.
Remember, you are the boss. You can use it on your terms. You’ll realize very fast that FOMO does not really exist for these, when you stop using them constantly.
You can do this. You’re gonna feel a lot better on the other side, I guarantee it.
I wrote a "social media contract" for myself that specifies when and how I am allowed to use social media (HN once a day; YouTube only on weekends; Twitter only to post — never to browse, etc.). I have a simple spreadsheet where I track my daily compliance. My reward for fulfilling my contract is a green check mark in the spreadsheet.
This technique has worked surprisingly well. For myself, the key has been to flip the goal from a negative ("don't check Instagram") to a positive ("get that green check mark").
I'm now off Reddit and Facebook completely. (The fact that I still checked Facebook is baffling, it really was just a reflex to type the URL in the browser.) YouTube and Instagram have been more challenging, but I've made a lot of progress there (went a whole month without checking Instagram). Twitter has been the hardest.
Oh, and definitely don't have any of the apps on your phone.
This technique has worked surprisingly well. For myself, the key has been to flip the goal from a negative ("don't check Instagram") to a positive ("get that green check mark").
I'm now off Reddit and Facebook completely. (The fact that I still checked Facebook is baffling, it really was just a reflex to type the URL in the browser.) YouTube and Instagram have been more challenging, but I've made a lot of progress there (went a whole month without checking Instagram). Twitter has been the hardest.
Oh, and definitely don't have any of the apps on your phone.
Delete the apps. I think out of sight, out of mind, is a good tactic. Isolate social media to one computer/tablet and then just keep limiting your time until you're using it less, and less. Getting the apps out of reach was a big first step for me.
This also worked for me. I deleted the Instagram app from my phone. If I want to see it, I can look at it from the phone browser. The experience is just barely not smooth enough to break the addiction.
I also keep the Nintendo Switch nearby. I've come to allow myself to take breaks, and I play Dead Cells for a level. Its the perfect amount of time to rest while also not completely losing context.
The other thing is that regular exercise for an hour everyday seems to improve my social media addiction. I feel better overall so I don't need the hit from social media.
I also keep the Nintendo Switch nearby. I've come to allow myself to take breaks, and I play Dead Cells for a level. Its the perfect amount of time to rest while also not completely losing context.
The other thing is that regular exercise for an hour everyday seems to improve my social media addiction. I feel better overall so I don't need the hit from social media.
I’d go one step further and recommend actually deleting the account — non-binding actions such as temporary app removal (in my experience) have not worked. If I want to stop doing something it’s always been helpful to me to have some sort of “committing” action attached
edit: this is if the goal is full stoppage — limitation based goals have always been very difficult for me
edit: this is if the goal is full stoppage — limitation based goals have always been very difficult for me
I read strange papers instead.
It's a pain in the ass, but...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425246/
It's a pain in the ass, but...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425246/
I've started moving my reading of "social" media more toward the "Fediverse" and distributed/decentralized types of networks (like Mastodon and Peertube for example). Also RSS feeds in a feed reader, Hacker News/Ycombinator, and other more easily controlled sources that aren't driven by the "Evil Algorithms™" used by the "social" media giants.
I also curate and engage in a list of other "hobbies" that can easily distract me from the various (anti-)social networks. I'm teaching myself Python coding (by writing tools to organize and consume my various information and data sources in healthier ways, and Blender 3D (because I've always been fascinated by 3D graphics in games, movies, and TV), and Godot game engine (because it goes nicely hand-in-hand with Blender 3D when I want to bring some "life" and interactivity to my 3D models (more than achieved by simple linear animation can provide). When I catch myself on any of my informational feeds, I tend to start to naturally gravitate toward information about those hobbies which tends to lead me inevitably back into those tools to experiment with some newly found knowledge on the topic. This allows me to more easily and frequently ignore things that tend to lean more toward the "wasted time" side of the equation.
I also curate and engage in a list of other "hobbies" that can easily distract me from the various (anti-)social networks. I'm teaching myself Python coding (by writing tools to organize and consume my various information and data sources in healthier ways, and Blender 3D (because I've always been fascinated by 3D graphics in games, movies, and TV), and Godot game engine (because it goes nicely hand-in-hand with Blender 3D when I want to bring some "life" and interactivity to my 3D models (more than achieved by simple linear animation can provide). When I catch myself on any of my informational feeds, I tend to start to naturally gravitate toward information about those hobbies which tends to lead me inevitably back into those tools to experiment with some newly found knowledge on the topic. This allows me to more easily and frequently ignore things that tend to lean more toward the "wasted time" side of the equation.
Isn't "dopamine addiction" (as well as "dopamine fasting") a scientifically-debunked myth?
Also why would I block a website if reading it is what I enjoy? Won't this just make me less happy?
I personally am blessed to have zero interest in Facebook and Instagram but I procrastinate a huge lot (seemingly way more than I should) by reading HN. But this also is my primary channel through which I get useful knowledge (more than half of which, picked by my attention, is unrelated or loosely related to IT) and most of the idea about what's going on outside of my home and office. Should I block HN?
Also why would I block a website if reading it is what I enjoy? Won't this just make me less happy?
I personally am blessed to have zero interest in Facebook and Instagram but I procrastinate a huge lot (seemingly way more than I should) by reading HN. But this also is my primary channel through which I get useful knowledge (more than half of which, picked by my attention, is unrelated or loosely related to IT) and most of the idea about what's going on outside of my home and office. Should I block HN?
> I procrastinate a huge lot ... by reading HN. But this also is my primary channel through which I get useful knowledge
Speaking as someone in the same boat, yes, this is pretty much what the pop concept "dopamine addiction" is meant to convey. I've also heard it called "intermittent variable reward" (which also may not be the correct technical term). You and I come here, and most of the time we get nothing interesting, but every so often -- just often enough -- there's something stimulating. And the brain remembers that stimulation, and "decides" that the wasted time does not outweigh the reward, and keeps wanting to go try again, hoping to get a juicy tidbit.
Speaking as someone in the same boat, yes, this is pretty much what the pop concept "dopamine addiction" is meant to convey. I've also heard it called "intermittent variable reward" (which also may not be the correct technical term). You and I come here, and most of the time we get nothing interesting, but every so often -- just often enough -- there's something stimulating. And the brain remembers that stimulation, and "decides" that the wasted time does not outweigh the reward, and keeps wanting to go try again, hoping to get a juicy tidbit.
Seems a perfect answer to me. Reading people dissecting and communicating things the way you just did is what I find among the best pleasures in the world, only available on this website.
Thanks! And case in point: I can "feel" my brain delighting in your reply and resolving to try more things to make that happen again. We are funny creatures. :) Best of luck to you.
Walk into a casino sometime during the day and report if you still think it’s a myth.
So this ruined the fun of most social media for me and took the dopamine out of it:
- Facebook: I realized everything I posted got maybe 1 or 2 likes. Either no one was looking at my stuff or the algorithm wasn't propagating it. At the time I had 150 friends, so I would have expected more response out of most of my posts than that. Thus I was just giving Facebook info about myself and that it really was a waste of my time.
- Most social media apps: It's so easy to get caught up in the hope that your stuff goes viral, but understanding the above and really thinking about how things go viral (essentially purely random or so plugged into a developing zeitgeist that you stumble upon it), the chance of that happening is so small that your efforts are honestly better spent elsewhere. Even if it does happen, what's the reward. What's the true value of merely being Internet famous? Is it worth posting multiple times daily and being consumed with the reactions? Most worthwhile Internet famous people have lives and value beyond their social media posts.
After really realizing this social media became mostly pointless to me and I wasn't doing social media instead of more important things in my life.
If you are getting a lot of meaningful engagement with your posts, then maybe it's a value-add and you shouldn't stop. Otherwise maybe taking a 1-week break and seeing if anything significant in your life changes will put it into proper perspective.
- Facebook: I realized everything I posted got maybe 1 or 2 likes. Either no one was looking at my stuff or the algorithm wasn't propagating it. At the time I had 150 friends, so I would have expected more response out of most of my posts than that. Thus I was just giving Facebook info about myself and that it really was a waste of my time.
- Most social media apps: It's so easy to get caught up in the hope that your stuff goes viral, but understanding the above and really thinking about how things go viral (essentially purely random or so plugged into a developing zeitgeist that you stumble upon it), the chance of that happening is so small that your efforts are honestly better spent elsewhere. Even if it does happen, what's the reward. What's the true value of merely being Internet famous? Is it worth posting multiple times daily and being consumed with the reactions? Most worthwhile Internet famous people have lives and value beyond their social media posts.
After really realizing this social media became mostly pointless to me and I wasn't doing social media instead of more important things in my life.
If you are getting a lot of meaningful engagement with your posts, then maybe it's a value-add and you shouldn't stop. Otherwise maybe taking a 1-week break and seeing if anything significant in your life changes will put it into proper perspective.
I deleted the mobile apps and instead use various browser apps for this purpose. I took the browser apps and hid them in folders on various remote screens (on iOS you can now remove them from all pages, forcing you to flip all the way to the end, where all apps are listed). After each session, log out and don’t save your password. The idea is to create a few seconds of time between the urge and the payoff, during which time you can reconsider whether you actually want to access the app.
Here's what works for me:
1. Only permit important notifications
2. Avoid mobile apps like a plague
3. Avoid apps that have dark patterns like deep scrolling
4. Use simple alternatives when available. I use NewPipe instead of YouTube and i.reddit.com in place of reddit.com
5. I know that my time and attention are valuable. There's no reason I should give it to these companies.
6. Use app specific hacks. For example, it's not possible for me to avoid LinkedIn as I am looking for jobs. But instead of routinely browsing it I can just configure daily alerts.
1. Only permit important notifications
2. Avoid mobile apps like a plague
3. Avoid apps that have dark patterns like deep scrolling
4. Use simple alternatives when available. I use NewPipe instead of YouTube and i.reddit.com in place of reddit.com
5. I know that my time and attention are valuable. There's no reason I should give it to these companies.
6. Use app specific hacks. For example, it's not possible for me to avoid LinkedIn as I am looking for jobs. But instead of routinely browsing it I can just configure daily alerts.
I mostly don't use Twitter, Facebook, or Reddit. I have reason to log into my Facebook account a few times a year. The only reason I log into Twitter is when I get a link to a Twitter thread, same with Reddit. I'm no paragon of restraint, I had to delete Universal Paperclip from my phone to quit playing it. I guess the easiest way to deal with any addiction is not to become addicted in the first place. Not great advice for people who are already addicted. . .
Make your password very long and impossible to remember without a password manager. Keep the password in a very difficult to use or annoying password manager, like maybe a local instance of keypass on a single device. Log out of the service on all your devices. Now every time you want to use the service you have to go through an annoying process to log in and have time to question, do I really need to do this right now?
Make it hard to login to social media. For example, setup 2FA via a hardware key, keep the key at home (or other place that’s hard to access throughout the day) and then logout of the site when you feel you’ve reached your “dose” for the day.
That ways you can’t just log in every time you crave a hit for a day.
Think of this like an alcoholic who always carries a flask — getting rid of the flask could be a good first-step in controlling the addiction.
That ways you can’t just log in every time you crave a hit for a day.
Think of this like an alcoholic who always carries a flask — getting rid of the flask could be a good first-step in controlling the addiction.
If you delete an app, you'll forget all about it. You won't miss it at all.
If you don't delete the app, really really cut back on your subscriptions/follows to just the essentials. The less content, the less time you spend doomscrolling.
Also, on platforms like Twitter, I turn of retweets. I only see tweets directly tweeted by people I follow.
If you don't delete the app, really really cut back on your subscriptions/follows to just the essentials. The less content, the less time you spend doomscrolling.
Also, on platforms like Twitter, I turn of retweets. I only see tweets directly tweeted by people I follow.
Install an extension like News Feed Eradicator https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/news-feed-eradicat...
For Instagram here’s what I do:
- delete the app
- use mobile web only, set my browser to delete all cookies so I have to log in every time I open it
Between those two things, my Instagram usage is down from 1+ hours a day to ~10m.
Part of that is because the ig webapp is pretty terrible, so it won’t work for hn.
Between those two things, my Instagram usage is down from 1+ hours a day to ~10m.
Part of that is because the ig webapp is pretty terrible, so it won’t work for hn.
Avoid social media.
Get lots of sleep, meditate, and eat well, as this helps.
See also the Huberman lab podcast on dopamine for more ideas.
Get lots of sleep, meditate, and eat well, as this helps.
See also the Huberman lab podcast on dopamine for more ideas.
I feel everyone here is fighting symptoms instead of the underlying cause. When I find myself refreshing the replies on some HN comment, I'm usually tired and exhausted, perhaps tasked with some job I lack the energy or the discipline for. Unless of course it's a particularly insightful comment that I'm just dying to hear your opinion on ;).
Anyway, my response to your question would be to forget all the tech. Just figure out how to manage your energy. Maybe plan mental breaks from your work, maybe check your sleep hygiene. And finally, and maybe this is just me trying to justify my own behavior, it could be that the refreshing is just the kind of dumb activity your brain needs to catch a break and regain some energy.
Anyway, my response to your question would be to forget all the tech. Just figure out how to manage your energy. Maybe plan mental breaks from your work, maybe check your sleep hygiene. And finally, and maybe this is just me trying to justify my own behavior, it could be that the refreshing is just the kind of dumb activity your brain needs to catch a break and regain some energy.
Speaking specifically about android mobile I've found minimalist phone to be a really nice tool to cut down on jumping from app to app for hours. First, I just like the aesthetics of it as a launcher and second the built in nag warnings for timing specific app usage make you conscious of your consumption which I think is critical. Having that metric works a lot like tracking calories, it's hard to realize just how much you are consuming without some sort of tracking - at least it is for me.
The fact that it has no icons also helps, it makes it far more arduous to open apps that you might not use a ton or that you don't have a shortcut for in your home screen menu so you tend to start ignoring a lot of little time sinks.
The fact that it has no icons also helps, it makes it far more arduous to open apps that you might not use a ton or that you don't have a shortcut for in your home screen menu so you tend to start ignoring a lot of little time sinks.
Every time I check my HN karma count it reminds me of this passage from Awareness by Anthony de Mello:
> Most people don't live aware lives. They live mechanical lives, mechanical thoughts - generally somebody else's - mechanical emotions, mechanical actions, mechanical reactions.
> Do you want to see how mechanical you really are? "My, that's a lovely shirt you're wearing". You feel good hearing that. For a shirt, for heaven's sake! You feel proud of yourself when you hear that.
> Normally the way it goes, I press a button and you're up; I press another button and you're down.
On social media we let others push the up/down buttons - and we feel happy, sad, proud, ashamed from that
> Most people don't live aware lives. They live mechanical lives, mechanical thoughts - generally somebody else's - mechanical emotions, mechanical actions, mechanical reactions.
> Do you want to see how mechanical you really are? "My, that's a lovely shirt you're wearing". You feel good hearing that. For a shirt, for heaven's sake! You feel proud of yourself when you hear that.
> Normally the way it goes, I press a button and you're up; I press another button and you're down.
On social media we let others push the up/down buttons - and we feel happy, sad, proud, ashamed from that
Habit change is no small thing. Delete the apps, schedule or ration usage. My noticing the difference quitting social media made in my emotional health helped reinforce the change — reflection writing was a good routine that supported that noticing.
I don’t allow myself to have my phone in my pocket at home. I keep it with my keys. Reduces the urge to glance at it a million times. I can still hear if I get a call or text. It makes me more present with my family. So far it’s working.
Making myself use the API for access. I'm very interested in the dynamics of social media, sometimes to a much greater degree than the actual content. Things like identifying trolling behavior or which way a split forum is trending can be studied without getting caught up in the particular words or personal exchanges. When I'm looking at those phenomena it can still be helpful to look at the content, but I build a craptacular-but-sufficient front end instead of using the platform offering.
I don't do this for HN, but for a couple of the bigger platforms where I'm fascinated by the activity but get cranky if I participate too much.
I don't do this for HN, but for a couple of the bigger platforms where I'm fascinated by the activity but get cranky if I participate too much.
That reminds me, it's time for my ~monthly Reddit account deletion to avoid karma cravings.
I wish HN would do account deletion the same way Reddit does. They argue it would harm the flow of conversations, but I'd argue the conversations here aren't a sacred as they make them out to be.
Just denying myself access to the account isn't the same, I tried it and had to ask support to give it back. I don't like to have 11 years of content sitting out there that's tied to me that I can't control in anyway (account used to be my real name, but support changed it after a minor stalking incident, but there's enough data for figuring it out).
I wish HN would do account deletion the same way Reddit does. They argue it would harm the flow of conversations, but I'd argue the conversations here aren't a sacred as they make them out to be.
Just denying myself access to the account isn't the same, I tried it and had to ask support to give it back. I don't like to have 11 years of content sitting out there that's tied to me that I can't control in anyway (account used to be my real name, but support changed it after a minor stalking incident, but there's enough data for figuring it out).
Could you do something like, change the password to a random string, put that in a file, and encrypt the file but have that password only known by someone else? Then it is accessible only if absolutely necessary.
I guess, but I'm not really looking to get rid of it because I'm addicted or anything like that, I just want it gone. It's my account, it should be my option.
I removed all my friends from FB, so now I just use it for very specific information needs with Groups.
I blocked myself from checking any news sites or social media from my phone, only desktop. That way I don't get stuck in bed or delay wind down.
I blocked myself from checking any news sites or social media from my phone, only desktop. That way I don't get stuck in bed or delay wind down.
I've recently read "Dopamine Nation" by Anna Lembke, and most of the stuff in the book resonated well with me. I really don't spend too much time on social media, but my addiction has been online gaming for awhile. The book does a great job of describing the chemical imbalance caused by immediate access to dopamine we all have with the internet.
The key takeaway from the book for me was that abstinence is necessary and withdrawal is part of getting better. I have tried all kinds of tools and tricks to avoid gaming before, but learning "why" it's happening has been the key to actually succeed.
The key takeaway from the book for me was that abstinence is necessary and withdrawal is part of getting better. I have tried all kinds of tools and tricks to avoid gaming before, but learning "why" it's happening has been the key to actually succeed.
Have two fixed time slots in a day and check all the apps during that time. Ignore/ Clear any notifications during all other time. Requires some self discipline but limits the usage considerably.
This is what ever worked for me. I block social media to one time slot per day, and it is of 30 minutes.
I never use social media outside of this slot.
I enforce it even when I have nothing else to do- like waiting in a queue or waiting for someone.
I do something else, or stare at the floor rather than pulling up my phone and opening a scroller.
This has had more benefit than just saving time. Attention span has gotten better, focus has improved. It sounds BS, but you can verify this yourself.
I have learned about it in Cal Newport's book Deep Work.
I never use social media outside of this slot.
I enforce it even when I have nothing else to do- like waiting in a queue or waiting for someone.
I do something else, or stare at the floor rather than pulling up my phone and opening a scroller.
This has had more benefit than just saving time. Attention span has gotten better, focus has improved. It sounds BS, but you can verify this yourself.
I have learned about it in Cal Newport's book Deep Work.
Much like eating healthily, this seems to be something where it takes a while to detox, but once you do, you have less and less interest in the junk.
I stopped using any "Meta" products, turned off notifications on my phone for anything else, and have screen time limits (though Apple's screen time is much less effective than Android, for some reason). I keep my phone in another room at night.
I find now that once I spend a small amount of time on social media (even HN) I start noticing a kind of gross, anxious feeling that leads me to pause.
I stopped using any "Meta" products, turned off notifications on my phone for anything else, and have screen time limits (though Apple's screen time is much less effective than Android, for some reason). I keep my phone in another room at night.
I find now that once I spend a small amount of time on social media (even HN) I start noticing a kind of gross, anxious feeling that leads me to pause.
Same here. It’s not to say that I don’t find other stuff (like gaming, reading, programming, etc) that will take large chunks out of time, but at least I feel like it was worth it. My experience with social media is that I almost always feel like shit for wasting my time afterwards.
I hung a pihole with everything blocked (https://pi-hole.net/) directly off my router, and I (probably somewhat redundantly) also use a hosts blocker (https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts) on my non-phone machines. It's annoying for the first day or two, but you get used to it really quickly.
Books, always having several books available on my Kindle so I can grab it and continue reading instead of consuming social media on my phone. I read 3-4 books at once and don't put pressure on myself to continue reading or finish any book. If I get bored with one just switch to another one.
There is no shortage of book recommendations. I usually get them from people interviewed on podcasts.
There is no shortage of book recommendations. I usually get them from people interviewed on podcasts.
The book atomic habits has some good points that can help. It is not that long and can be read relatively fast.
I've been training myself to log out when I decide that it's not best for me and to have a mini meditation session before logging back in, that way I know I'm in a calm state of mind when I make the decision.
Also, kindle is my go-to Twitter replacement.
Also, kindle is my go-to Twitter replacement.
I really wish someone made a browser extension that simulates a slow connection when you visit a social media website. I have a feeling the addiction would go away if you were subjected to a random 1-5 second wait after each click on Twitter.
If self moderation is not working, plain old avoidance/abstinence is the way to go.
I am not capable of moderate game playing, so I have no games installed on any device of mine.
I am not capable of moderate game playing, so I have no games installed on any device of mine.
A complete removal from cocaine from my life is not really an option since it gives me more energy to be productive.
I unfollow everyone on social media except close family. The trick is to remove the potency of your social media.
DNS level blocking worked quite well for me. It’s about making it hard enough to start the bad habit again.
Follow 0 pages/people, sounds impossibile. But atleast try to stop followers aggregator accounts
treat your future self like a friend or client and set him up for the activities and habits you want. in the moment you’ll never make a good decision. but if you make commitments to be more social and active it will take up the time wasted on social media
No Facebook apps on my phone. Because, you know, I don't trust that company at all.
Stop using it, it's only output is dopamine
- An app that blocks distracting sites (I'm using Freedom)
- Change that pattern by changing my habits (e.g. excluding my phone from the morning routine)
Edit: A complete deletion is not really an option since I enjoy Twitter, Reddit, HN to stay up-to-date with the tech world :)