Dell releases powerful, well-supported Linux Ultrabook(arstechnica.com)
arstechnica.com
Dell releases powerful, well-supported Linux Ultrabook
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/dell-releases-powerful-well-supported-linux-ultrabook/
349 comments
Every time I read this I have to think to my self how silly it is to lead an article with
Some things (particularly components like trackpads and Wi-Fi chips) take some fiddling to get working
Thats total balony, trackpads and WiFi have been well supported in Linux for almost a decade. It is _rare_ to find a labtop that when you install la fresh modern distro on it , things don't work. Yes every now and then you get a vendor who insist on doing something different, but most of the time its a synaptic track pad ( well supported ) and a Broadcom or Intel WiFi card ( well supported ). I can remember back in 2004 taking my Government Issued Dell laptop and installing Fedora on it and everything working out of the box.
Thats total balony, trackpads and WiFi have been well supported in Linux for almost a decade. It is _rare_ to find a labtop that when you install la fresh modern distro on it , things don't work. Yes every now and then you get a vendor who insist on doing something different, but most of the time its a synaptic track pad ( well supported ) and a Broadcom or Intel WiFi card ( well supported ). I can remember back in 2004 taking my Government Issued Dell laptop and installing Fedora on it and everything working out of the box.
> Some things (particularly components like trackpads and Wi-Fi chips) take some fiddling to get working.
Trackpads and wi-fi has been working for me for a long time(not implying this isn't a problem for many people), but what drives me completely insane is the video cards. If you are planning to run linux, seriously re-consider buying laptops with hybrid graphics. The graphic card might or might not run, the card switching will most likely not work, but you can ignore it since you can work with the intel card, right? Well, no. Most of the AGP, whether used or not, will eat up power, the fan will run at full speed and your laptop's behind will be hot enough to stir fry some veggies.
If you have a laptop with hybrid graphics, and you can't make it work, just switch off your discrete card.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics
Laptops in general, and linux laptops tend to run hot. However, don't mess with power settings a lot. Putting harddisks on powersaving mode(refer hdparm) so that they become idle puts unnecessary strain on the disk. You can try out experimenting with cpu frequency(cpufreq-set).
Trackpads and wi-fi has been working for me for a long time(not implying this isn't a problem for many people), but what drives me completely insane is the video cards. If you are planning to run linux, seriously re-consider buying laptops with hybrid graphics. The graphic card might or might not run, the card switching will most likely not work, but you can ignore it since you can work with the intel card, right? Well, no. Most of the AGP, whether used or not, will eat up power, the fan will run at full speed and your laptop's behind will be hot enough to stir fry some veggies.
If you have a laptop with hybrid graphics, and you can't make it work, just switch off your discrete card.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics
Laptops in general, and linux laptops tend to run hot. However, don't mess with power settings a lot. Putting harddisks on powersaving mode(refer hdparm) so that they become idle puts unnecessary strain on the disk. You can try out experimenting with cpu frequency(cpufreq-set).
Nice, but that screen resolution is awful!
How did 1366x768 ever become acceptable?
I know it's a 13" screen but still...
How did 1366x768 ever become acceptable?
I know it's a 13" screen but still...
"... retains the pilot version's 1366x768 display resolution."
Why would Dell use such a low-resolution screen? My phone is higher resolution than this laptop. Visual information density is very useful to "devops" Dell is said to be targeting and hi-dpi enables this.
Linus Torvalds is right in saying we need a new standard (he is advocating for a new 2560x1600 laptop standard, see https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/ByVPmsSeSEG ).
(edit - fixed resolution typo)
Why would Dell use such a low-resolution screen? My phone is higher resolution than this laptop. Visual information density is very useful to "devops" Dell is said to be targeting and hi-dpi enables this.
Linus Torvalds is right in saying we need a new standard (he is advocating for a new 2560x1600 laptop standard, see https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/ByVPmsSeSEG ).
(edit - fixed resolution typo)
> The launch hardware costs $1,549
For the same price you can get a MacBook Air with a 1440x900 screen.
For the same price you can get a MacBook Air with a 1440x900 screen.
Here is a question (sorry to try and hijack this thread): this is a great laptop, but while we're at it, have people had good experiences with other ultrabooks?
My experience has been that things like EFI have made it impossible to boot linux on recent macbooks (I have tried!), and many ultrabook hardware just doesn't work on linux. Graphics won't show up, the thing won't boot, SATA hard drives not found, etc.
Many of the websites I used to rely on (eg, linux-laptop.net) have very out of date information. Ubuntu has a list of certified machines (http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/) but still, it doesn't tell me much about ultrabooks released in the past year.
Are there any new resources I'm missing? Or personal experiences people can share?
As for myself, I'm successfully running Mint on a Toshiba Portege ultrabook. But that is the flimsiest computer I've ever used!
My experience has been that things like EFI have made it impossible to boot linux on recent macbooks (I have tried!), and many ultrabook hardware just doesn't work on linux. Graphics won't show up, the thing won't boot, SATA hard drives not found, etc.
Many of the websites I used to rely on (eg, linux-laptop.net) have very out of date information. Ubuntu has a list of certified machines (http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/) but still, it doesn't tell me much about ultrabooks released in the past year.
Are there any new resources I'm missing? Or personal experiences people can share?
As for myself, I'm successfully running Mint on a Toshiba Portege ultrabook. But that is the flimsiest computer I've ever used!
> ... retains the pilot version's 1366x768 display resolution.
Close tab.
Close tab.
I was excited when I heard about this initial project, and was holding out for the official release specs. The display is a big disappointment, and show stopper for me.
I do agree this is a great first step and partnership for hardware manufacturers, specifically for device drivers.
I really do hope this is successful enough that Dell sustains the product line and continues to iterate on improving it over the next couple years. I would love a Mac Airbook alternative ultrabook for development.
Additionally, let's hope this spurs some competition in the market for other manufacturers. I've done ZERO market analysis, but it seems like quite a niche market that is rip for the picking (*NIX DEV Ulatrabook), and has the potential for decent profits w/ the right hardware specs and pricing.
Kudos to Dell for taking the imitative in the right direction. Let's see how it pans out.
> Edit spur competition
I do agree this is a great first step and partnership for hardware manufacturers, specifically for device drivers.
I really do hope this is successful enough that Dell sustains the product line and continues to iterate on improving it over the next couple years. I would love a Mac Airbook alternative ultrabook for development.
Additionally, let's hope this spurs some competition in the market for other manufacturers. I've done ZERO market analysis, but it seems like quite a niche market that is rip for the picking (*NIX DEV Ulatrabook), and has the potential for decent profits w/ the right hardware specs and pricing.
Kudos to Dell for taking the imitative in the right direction. Let's see how it pans out.
> Edit spur competition
1366x768 , why oh why?
I don't care about whatever "cloud" software BS they've tacked on but if you're making a laptop for developers you should have north of 1000 pixels of vertical space.
Even 1280x1024 would be better.
I don't care about whatever "cloud" software BS they've tacked on but if you're making a laptop for developers you should have north of 1000 pixels of vertical space.
Even 1280x1024 would be better.
It's great to see Dell doing something that resembles innovation, and it's great to see laptops that can run Linux out of the box. But honestly I just don't trust Ubuntu after they built advertising ('online scope results') into their interface. How much more will they cripple their distro as they struggle to monetize? I understand Ubuntu is free, but this fact doesn't benefit the end-consumer much because Microsoft gives Windows to OEMs for practically free and the cost of OSX is irrelevant.
Most people who should be using Linux know how to install it on a wintel machine. I'd rather see Dell put 100% of its open source effort into releasing Linux-compatible drivers for all its laptops instead of marketing niche products.
Most people who should be using Linux know how to install it on a wintel machine. I'd rather see Dell put 100% of its open source effort into releasing Linux-compatible drivers for all its laptops instead of marketing niche products.
Is it too much to ask to go to dell.com and see pictures of their products?
Steps I've taken, and since given up:
1. Type in dell.com 2. Decide that I am looking for "For Home > Ultrabooks" 3. Scroll long page of laptops 4. Decide to narrow page down to 12-15 inch screens 5. Find XPS-13 6. Get taken to a configuration page 7. Sees no "view pictures of computer" button/link
The pics on ars makes the machine look good, the bottom kinda reminds of of the nexus 7's profile
Steps I've taken, and since given up:
1. Type in dell.com 2. Decide that I am looking for "For Home > Ultrabooks" 3. Scroll long page of laptops 4. Decide to narrow page down to 12-15 inch screens 5. Find XPS-13 6. Get taken to a configuration page 7. Sees no "view pictures of computer" button/link
The pics on ars makes the machine look good, the bottom kinda reminds of of the nexus 7's profile
The Windows version of the same laptop is $50 less. Uh, what?
[1] http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/pd
[2] http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx
[1] http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/pd
[2] http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx
Dell releases i5, 8gb ram, 256gb ssd, 3 lb., 1366x768, $1500 laptop. (price includes cost of $0 OS).
Wow what a deal. /s
Wow what a deal. /s
Just another chiming in here with nerd rage at low screen resolutions these days.
Absolutely crazy to make a "developer" laptop that can't even display the full standard page size that web developers will target web pages to. The surface pro has more resolution. The Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 have nearly the same and the Nexus 10 is nearly double in each direction and all these Nexii are priced < $400.
Absolutely crazy to make a "developer" laptop that can't even display the full standard page size that web developers will target web pages to. The surface pro has more resolution. The Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 have nearly the same and the Nexus 10 is nearly double in each direction and all these Nexii are priced < $400.
You can get very nice, lightweight laptops that run Linux perfectly for much less, even from Dell (such as the Dell 14z which was only $300 on black friday). The main tips are to look for laptops that don't have dual graphics cards (nvidia optimus - although it will still work with http://bumblebee-project.org/ ), and google for the laptop model plus "linux" or "ubuntu" to see other folks' experiences with it.
The main issue now though are the new Windows 8 tablets (the Pro ones that mostly are not out yet) - we'll have to see how well they run Linux distros.
The main issue now though are the new Windows 8 tablets (the Pro ones that mostly are not out yet) - we'll have to see how well they run Linux distros.
The laptop itself looks great, but what are the opinions on the profile tool? Doesn't something like http://vagrantup.com/ with vubdle, pip, rubygems, apt make it obsolete?
Also, linux dev environments are finnicky because every developer has their own miniscule variant that drives them crazy if it doesn't exist. Pre-made dev environments seem like the antithesis of this.
Opinions?
edit: It seems I have slightly misunderstood. It seems more like chef-solo for dev tool configs.
Also, linux dev environments are finnicky because every developer has their own miniscule variant that drives them crazy if it doesn't exist. Pre-made dev environments seem like the antithesis of this.
Opinions?
edit: It seems I have slightly misunderstood. It seems more like chef-solo for dev tool configs.
Wouldn't a budget-conscious hacker get a Samsung 550 Chromebook and load Ubuntu for $450? Or slog through the local electronics recyclers and get the equivalent for potentially even less?
If not on a budget, wouldn't you get a MacBook or a Lenovo?
Also, are these in a store where I can touch the hardware before dropping $1500?
I applaud Dell for making a go of it with Linux, targeting the right community, I just hope they get enough buyers to make better hardware for version 2.
If not on a budget, wouldn't you get a MacBook or a Lenovo?
Also, are these in a store where I can touch the hardware before dropping $1500?
I applaud Dell for making a go of it with Linux, targeting the right community, I just hope they get enough buyers to make better hardware for version 2.
Dell emailed me a number of times about this, but it never made sense to me personally. I adore Dell as a company, and the Dell Vostro laptop I bought in 2007 performs splendidly to this day running the Ubuntu I installed on it. The thing is, installing Ubuntu didn't take me too much effort in 2007, and it shouldn't today. Seeing as how they are targeting this Sputnik as a developer machine, almost everyone should be able fix up any quirks in a zip.
The pricing also doesn't make sense to me, but it may to some. I know some people, especially professionals who buy machines as part of their work expense, would willingly walk into an Apple store and buy a MacBook at its retail price. In that regard, this Ubuntu XPS 13 is not that out of line. However, in the Windows world, you'd have to be stupid to buy any computer at MSRP. In fact, it's pretty much not possible due to all the discounts thrown on. I've seen these XPS 13 Ultrabooks go down to $799 on the street, and that's with a nice Windows 8 license thrown in (and installed and configured nicely; you may not think this, but configuring up a clean Windows install onto a laptop can be easily as much of a pain as configuring a Linux install). You might not need Windows, but why not take it as a bonus even if you immediately throw Ubuntu onto the next partition? This option also means you're using the latest Ubuntu build instead of Dell's own channel based on LTS (could be a pro or con, but you could also opt for LTS yourself as well).
Canonical has the image that Dell uses for the XPS on this page: http://hwe.ubuntu.com/uds-q/dellxps/
All that said, however, I understand and applaud the idea of making a complete hardware/software package as seamless as a MacBook. I don't doubt this would make for a great option for consumers who want a smooth experience with Linux.
The pricing also doesn't make sense to me, but it may to some. I know some people, especially professionals who buy machines as part of their work expense, would willingly walk into an Apple store and buy a MacBook at its retail price. In that regard, this Ubuntu XPS 13 is not that out of line. However, in the Windows world, you'd have to be stupid to buy any computer at MSRP. In fact, it's pretty much not possible due to all the discounts thrown on. I've seen these XPS 13 Ultrabooks go down to $799 on the street, and that's with a nice Windows 8 license thrown in (and installed and configured nicely; you may not think this, but configuring up a clean Windows install onto a laptop can be easily as much of a pain as configuring a Linux install). You might not need Windows, but why not take it as a bonus even if you immediately throw Ubuntu onto the next partition? This option also means you're using the latest Ubuntu build instead of Dell's own channel based on LTS (could be a pro or con, but you could also opt for LTS yourself as well).
Canonical has the image that Dell uses for the XPS on this page: http://hwe.ubuntu.com/uds-q/dellxps/
All that said, however, I understand and applaud the idea of making a complete hardware/software package as seamless as a MacBook. I don't doubt this would make for a great option for consumers who want a smooth experience with Linux.
I really liked what I read here:
The Last PC Laptop (codinghorror.com)
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4560423
Here is the feature list for this laptop:
* Retina-esque 1920x1080 resolution in an amazingly high quality 13.3" IPS display
* Intel's latest 17 watt Ivy Bridge processor with (finally!) decent integrated graphics
* 128 GB SSD with fast 6Gbps interface
* Just under 3 pounds
* Decent 6 hour runtime
* Classy brushed metal case and cover
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4560423
Here is the feature list for this laptop:
* Retina-esque 1920x1080 resolution in an amazingly high quality 13.3" IPS display
* Intel's latest 17 watt Ivy Bridge processor with (finally!) decent integrated graphics
* 128 GB SSD with fast 6Gbps interface
* Just under 3 pounds
* Decent 6 hour runtime
* Classy brushed metal case and cover
$1,549 for a 1366x768 display?!? And they say Macs are expensive?
This machine seems lame to me at best (1366x768? Really?).
I did a lot of shopping around about a month or two ago. There were only three serious contenders. Asus UX32VD, Sony Vaio Z 15 and Thinkpad X1 Carbon.
Out of this bunch, Thinkpad was out because of insane price in EU and because Asus had a better screen and massivelly better value. Sony didn't qualify because it felt cheap and I really dislike Sony as a company. So I the only real worthy computer was Asus UX32VD.
Running Ubuntu 12.10 I am super happy with it (although shame on Nvidia for not supporting Optimus on Linux). If I were buying a computer now, I would probably buy Asus U500 (15.4" and Quad Core CPU).
But I am still in market for a new Thinkpad, when Lenovo comes to its senses and releases something 14" with 1080 or 1200 resolution and Quad core CPU.
I have a feeling that next year the laptop market for developers will be awesome.
I did a lot of shopping around about a month or two ago. There were only three serious contenders. Asus UX32VD, Sony Vaio Z 15 and Thinkpad X1 Carbon.
Out of this bunch, Thinkpad was out because of insane price in EU and because Asus had a better screen and massivelly better value. Sony didn't qualify because it felt cheap and I really dislike Sony as a company. So I the only real worthy computer was Asus UX32VD.
Running Ubuntu 12.10 I am super happy with it (although shame on Nvidia for not supporting Optimus on Linux). If I were buying a computer now, I would probably buy Asus U500 (15.4" and Quad Core CPU).
But I am still in market for a new Thinkpad, when Lenovo comes to its senses and releases something 14" with 1080 or 1200 resolution and Quad core CPU.
I have a feeling that next year the laptop market for developers will be awesome.
Is it too much to hope that the drivers from this effort are not just free, but also open-source?
Other than that, props to Dell for even attempting something like this. The hardware ain't mind-blowing (as others have pointed out), but hopefully this is a step in the right direction.
Other than that, props to Dell for even attempting something like this. The hardware ain't mind-blowing (as others have pointed out), but hopefully this is a step in the right direction.
I just got a Dell Inspiron N5050 laptop (not from the US) that came pre-loaded with Ubuntu some time ago, and I have to say -- the Linux support is astounding.
Absolutely everything works. The integrated webcam, closing the lid putting it to sleep, the various built-in keyboard keys (for changing brightness, volume, ..), et cetra.
Can't say how happy I am with it. And it only cost $450. The specs are: Core i3-2570, 8GB DDR3, 320GB HDD, Intel HD 3000 Graphics (no discrete). The laptop looks and feels nice too.
Absolutely everything works. The integrated webcam, closing the lid putting it to sleep, the various built-in keyboard keys (for changing brightness, volume, ..), et cetra.
Can't say how happy I am with it. And it only cost $450. The specs are: Core i3-2570, 8GB DDR3, 320GB HDD, Intel HD 3000 Graphics (no discrete). The laptop looks and feels nice too.
I'm not sure how they plan to compete with Macs? The price is definitely not competitive. I care about computing experience. When it comes down to it, I haven't found a better *nix workstation than my Macbook Pro.
I love Ubuntu. I use it for all of my server deployments. I'd love an Ubuntu laptop that works well. But, it has to work better than my Macbook Pro for me to consider switching.
I love Ubuntu. I use it for all of my server deployments. I'd love an Ubuntu laptop that works well. But, it has to work better than my Macbook Pro for me to consider switching.
Cell phones shouldn't have better resolution then a 1500$ laptop. Period.
If Dell shows solid support behind this ultrabook, I would consider to get one. My attention would be on upgrade and support. I am over the age where I would be happy just because the new version Linux happened to run on my laptop. Too many times the next version would bring some incompatibilities and I had to search for patches, and recompile the kernel and Fuck it, I just want to get work done and the last thing I concern should be the OS. Just for cars I damn care less for what OS is running under the hood, the same should apply to computers. Full operations is a must, not by chance. Sorry for the language, frustrated to see the current state of Linux still in a mess in PC/laptop after 10+ years (I ran Linux-only in college circa 1998). Yes I am using a Mac now. Not because it rocks, at least it doesn't suck that much.
It's a good first attempt, but it's going to need some work. The screen is pretty bad, but the one thing that puts me off is pretty much any Dell I've used has had a terrible keyboard and trackpad, but I've not used one for a while now so I'm hoping they've fixed that for this.
I remember owning a small laptop from Sotec. (Yes, Sotec, Google it; it's a brand that no longer exists!) I bought it in late '99 early '00 and it had this resolution.
I am not shitting you, I'll try to find an old CNET.com link for the review.
What is a laptop in this day and age coming with such low resolution?
I am not shitting you, I'll try to find an old CNET.com link for the review.
What is a laptop in this day and age coming with such low resolution?
So what's the point of this, for Dell's bottom line? Even with the relatively steep price, a developer-focused laptop is not going to be a best-seller. And in a few years, how many of those driver developers are going to be fully-focused on updating software for a niche laptop?
As much as I wish it were the case, what developers adopt is not always what will be profitable to the masses. And this ends up biting developers in the end. My Macbook Air is good enough that I don't think I need to go back to Linux...and I can be relatively confident that even if Apple continues to screw with the OS, the Apple OS X user base is so massive that niceties like homebrew will be supported as long, if not longer, than the niceties for a developer-focused laptop.
As much as I wish it were the case, what developers adopt is not always what will be profitable to the masses. And this ends up biting developers in the end. My Macbook Air is good enough that I don't think I need to go back to Linux...and I can be relatively confident that even if Apple continues to screw with the OS, the Apple OS X user base is so massive that niceties like homebrew will be supported as long, if not longer, than the niceties for a developer-focused laptop.
I couldn't be happier with it - I have a larger laptop that I use as my "main" computer at home (essentially as if it were a desktop), and the XPS13 is what I take with me everywhere and use for presentations, developing on the go, etc.
I've used Linux as my main OS for some years now, and for me the main appeal of this computer was the size/weight/battery life when compared to my larger laptop. If you've been waiting for a Linux ultrabook for portable development (or even just ultra-portable general use), this is it.
Compared to my work computer (a Macbook Air), the difference is enormous. Hardware-wise, the XPS13 just feels slimmer, even though the difference in size/weight is negligible. The biggest physical differences are the keys and trackpad - I'm typing this now on a mechanical keyboard, and I've gotten so used to the Das Keyboard that I can't stand the feel of chiclet-style keys. However, the shape of the XPS13 keys (slightly indented) alleviates some of the annoyances I have with most laptop keyboards (the Air included). The trackpad is highly sensitive, and I like the texture slightly more than that of the Macbook Air.
Battery life is great, even with Bluetooth turned on (though I usually leave this off - I still haven't found a real use for Bluetooth on my computers!).
I should mention the display - it's the perfect size for me. I actually dislike the Macbook Air on this one point - it absolutely kills my eyes by the end of the day (both the default size and default brightness/contrast). I have neither of these problems with the XPS13, but it's still crisp enough that I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
Overall, I'm incredibly happy that I got it, and I actually get slightly annoyed now when I have to use my Macbook Air for work - I wish I could be using the XPS13 instead. Aside from the fact that I'd rather be using Linux any day, hands-down, the computer just feels more physically appealing in itself. Even at its price[1], it's worth every penny.
[1] I should note that I received my testing laptop at a 20% discount, though after using it, I would be willing to pay full price for it if I'd had to.