Ask HN: Why can't I get an internship?
17 comments
1. Move your Work Experience ahead of your education, it holds more value on the paper than simply where you're at today.
2. I'll apologize for being so blunt, but the bullet points for your work experience suck. They're dry and could use additional context. Your work experience needs to tell a story of what you were doing so you come off as intriguing. What sounds better, "Designed graphics, maintained WordPress for company website" or "Developed & implemented new version of company website using Twitter Bootstrap."
3. Your more recent job title: get rid of the "what the job really was" in parenthesis. Call it what it was, and elaborate that you took the lead role when you reach the point of having a conversation.
4. Clark Strategic Partners Job - Strip the job title down to "Web Developer". You're not freelance if you're specifically defining them as an employer under your work experience, and naming whom it was for is redundant. If it was truly a freelance job, then rework that section with the focus of you working for yourself as a freelance dev and talk about what you did for CSP in the bullet points.
5. The last job on your resume, the advisor one: Move that to the top if it's still you're still presently in the role. Work Experience always goes what you're currently doing first, followed by what you've done recently.
6. Simplify your technical skills section. For you, this section should be nothing more than a comma separated list of technology keywords. Don't separate by experience levels - only put the ones on there you're confident enough behind to take a job/internship doing.
7. Your resume is too long, either trim content or tweak page margins/fonts/etc to get the resume to fit perfectly on a single page. You don't have enough overflow to justify having a second page.
2. I'll apologize for being so blunt, but the bullet points for your work experience suck. They're dry and could use additional context. Your work experience needs to tell a story of what you were doing so you come off as intriguing. What sounds better, "Designed graphics, maintained WordPress for company website" or "Developed & implemented new version of company website using Twitter Bootstrap."
3. Your more recent job title: get rid of the "what the job really was" in parenthesis. Call it what it was, and elaborate that you took the lead role when you reach the point of having a conversation.
4. Clark Strategic Partners Job - Strip the job title down to "Web Developer". You're not freelance if you're specifically defining them as an employer under your work experience, and naming whom it was for is redundant. If it was truly a freelance job, then rework that section with the focus of you working for yourself as a freelance dev and talk about what you did for CSP in the bullet points.
5. The last job on your resume, the advisor one: Move that to the top if it's still you're still presently in the role. Work Experience always goes what you're currently doing first, followed by what you've done recently.
6. Simplify your technical skills section. For you, this section should be nothing more than a comma separated list of technology keywords. Don't separate by experience levels - only put the ones on there you're confident enough behind to take a job/internship doing.
7. Your resume is too long, either trim content or tweak page margins/fonts/etc to get the resume to fit perfectly on a single page. You don't have enough overflow to justify having a second page.
I really appreciate this, thanks!
University researchers with budget can add another Undergrad Research Assistant or similar at any time for any reason. Pay will be SUBSTANTIALLY under what industry offers right now. Feel free to hit up your favorite profs and ask who needs a productive coder to do scutwork. (It will be scutwork.)
I also recommend you going forward swap how important you think Github and personal networking are. Assume sending in an unsolicited resume doesn't even count as "applying." I know, this is the opposite of what the academy has taught you to expect, but they are a funhouse mirrors version of the wider economy.
I also recommend you going forward swap how important you think Github and personal networking are. Assume sending in an unsolicited resume doesn't even count as "applying." I know, this is the opposite of what the academy has taught you to expect, but they are a funhouse mirrors version of the wider economy.
Thanks for the advice, and I know personal networking is important but I don't really like to straight out ask people if they can hire me (though I did ask two professors I've never met). I am nearly certain most of the companies I've applied to haven't looked at my application, but I just don't get why they would post seemingly expensive ads on Indeed and LinkedIn. It feels disingenuous.
I don't really like to straight out ask people if they can hire me
That is a success-limiting preference and I would encourage you to start preferring other things. If it helps, pretend you're just on a recon mission not actually looking for a job but trying to ascertain whether there is a you-sized hole in the project that they're running which you are legitimately interested in. Scientists love talking about their babies to anyone who will listen.
"So what are you working on this summer?"
"We're programming FPGAs to do automatic detection of human language in content going over the wire using bloom filters."
"Oh that sounds interesting. Who are you working with?"
"Dr. Foo, Dr. Bar, and 3 graduate students."
"Who is your Unicode expert?"
"We don't have one."
"Really? That's unfortunate -- you're solving it with low-level byte manipulation so if you don't have an intuition for what a bytestream of UTF-8 in Russian actually looks like that might be a bit difficult. Mind if I have a quick go at the blackboard?"
"Be my guest."
"So let's take the UTF-16 case since it's easier to understand..."
5 minutes later
"Huh, thanks for the explanation. I wish we could have you around every day."
"Do you hire undergraduate research assistants?"
"Yes."
"Then you can!"
[Lightly fictionalized from an actual research assistantship.]
That is a success-limiting preference and I would encourage you to start preferring other things. If it helps, pretend you're just on a recon mission not actually looking for a job but trying to ascertain whether there is a you-sized hole in the project that they're running which you are legitimately interested in. Scientists love talking about their babies to anyone who will listen.
"So what are you working on this summer?"
"We're programming FPGAs to do automatic detection of human language in content going over the wire using bloom filters."
"Oh that sounds interesting. Who are you working with?"
"Dr. Foo, Dr. Bar, and 3 graduate students."
"Who is your Unicode expert?"
"We don't have one."
"Really? That's unfortunate -- you're solving it with low-level byte manipulation so if you don't have an intuition for what a bytestream of UTF-8 in Russian actually looks like that might be a bit difficult. Mind if I have a quick go at the blackboard?"
"Be my guest."
"So let's take the UTF-16 case since it's easier to understand..."
5 minutes later
"Huh, thanks for the explanation. I wish we could have you around every day."
"Do you hire undergraduate research assistants?"
"Yes."
"Then you can!"
[Lightly fictionalized from an actual research assistantship.]
>> That is a success-limiting preference and I would suggest you start preferring other things.
In context this is one of the top ten patio11 advice quotes on this forum.
This also ties into negotiating salary, don't call yourself a programmer, et al.
In context this is one of the top ten patio11 advice quotes on this forum.
This also ties into negotiating salary, don't call yourself a programmer, et al.
Another success route here involves finding Professor Foo of the Interesting Funded Research sometime in the fall or spring, telling Foo that his research is cool, and then asking if you could you help out (volunteer). The answer will likely be "yes", and then, providing you're being a relatively functional person, you're now a strong candidate & provisionally in the rotation for the next blob of funding coming along.
(This has happened in multiple scenarios to various friends and self).
(This has happened in multiple scenarios to various friends and self).
Like Patrick mentions in his reply, you should try to hack your psychology to get more comfortable with directly but politely asking for things you want.
One trick that works for me is to tell myself "Let's try it and see what happens". Curiosity is a strong motivator.
One trick that works for me is to tell myself "Let's try it and see what happens". Curiosity is a strong motivator.
Don't get stressed about asking people to hire you. I am in a mechanical engineering research lab and we will have two undergrads and a master's student from France in or lab this summer mostly doing computer work. They are mostly here because they emailed Dr. Bifano and just asked if they could work in his lab over the summer. If you know any professors, you could ask them if they have friends that are looking for someone. Undergrad help is cheap, and lots of professors are interested in hiring someone for a few months. Summers are especially nice because if things don't go well it is easy to let them go afterwords.
I'd keep Education ahead of Work Experience. It's fairly standard for college resumes and since you go to Columbia it's the one thing that works most in your favor when just sending your resume out to random places. Most places spend like 10 seconds looking at your resume so make your "strongest" assets, namely the fact that you go to Columbia and you've had some intern experience, be the first things to leave an impression on them in that brief time.
Your work experience should be more descriptive and your resume should only take up one page. Also, your name doesn't need to take up so much space at the top and your GPA should be on there too, otherwise it looks like you're trying to hide it. Use something like this https://www.careereducation.columbia.edu/sites/cce/files/Sam... as the format style too. I'd also go to CCE when you get back to NY and have them work through your resume with you, I've heard they're decent with that kind of stuff.
In terms of getting an internship, I wouldn't be too disappointed by not getting something as a rising sophomore. The only people from Columbia that get decent internships right after freshman year either know someone at the company or are doing some kind of special program that you had to specifically apply to. Even the summer after sophomore year can be a crapshoot, especially for tech internships. My best advice is to just scroll through LionShare next recruiting cycle and apply to everything you find interesting and reach out to APAM alumni / profs and see if they know anyone who needs some help. The seniors who just finished their internships will come back to campus and be more than happy to brag about how they got their internship and probably be willing to put your resume in front of their boss if you make the effort to talk to them. With a bit of hard work and patience you can skew the odds of getting something in your favor.
Btw, welcome to SEAS.
Your work experience should be more descriptive and your resume should only take up one page. Also, your name doesn't need to take up so much space at the top and your GPA should be on there too, otherwise it looks like you're trying to hide it. Use something like this https://www.careereducation.columbia.edu/sites/cce/files/Sam... as the format style too. I'd also go to CCE when you get back to NY and have them work through your resume with you, I've heard they're decent with that kind of stuff.
In terms of getting an internship, I wouldn't be too disappointed by not getting something as a rising sophomore. The only people from Columbia that get decent internships right after freshman year either know someone at the company or are doing some kind of special program that you had to specifically apply to. Even the summer after sophomore year can be a crapshoot, especially for tech internships. My best advice is to just scroll through LionShare next recruiting cycle and apply to everything you find interesting and reach out to APAM alumni / profs and see if they know anyone who needs some help. The seniors who just finished their internships will come back to campus and be more than happy to brag about how they got their internship and probably be willing to put your resume in front of their boss if you make the effort to talk to them. With a bit of hard work and patience you can skew the odds of getting something in your favor.
Btw, welcome to SEAS.
Hello,
It depends what you're looking for. I interned with Schlumberger a couple of years ago[0].
One of the things I have noticed is a two-sided lack of awareness:
- People on HN (representative of the "tech community") almost forget that software is everywhere, not just at Google, Facebook, or Dropbox.
- Oilfield service companies don't try really hard to attract top talent. I mean, Schlumberger jokes that it's the "biggest company you've never heard of". I was a teenager fiddling with my Samsung phone, and in the crypto side, there was SLB technology and RSA. Later, I learned that they were behind Java Cards and when I got to college, I used function generators and oscilloscopes that were made by them.
Although from your handle and the name on the (dead) link, and the fact you're in LA, I'd guess you are Iranian so you probably heard of it.
I think it's ironic that a lot of hackers almost think software is only desktop or mobile. Tools that do a frigging MRI, Sonic, Gamma rays and what-not tens of thousands of feet below the surface and spit data that's visualized on the surface in real time. These babies are pretty neat technology I can tell you.
I think that hackers can have a bigger impact in fields that are not "obviously" "softwary". I mean, what's the marginal benefit of a hacker joining Dropbox vs that of joining an industry where the cutting edge is Visual Basic Macros.
One would argue it's not as glamourous as to work at Facebook, another might argue that if you strip it down, the average Facebook user thinks Paulo Coelho is deep, uses LOL and LMFAO in sentences, and shares Game of Thrones memes.
So you might look at where someone with your skills can have a bigger impact. An LED in the night looks so bright, after all.
[0]: https://careers.slb.com/whoweare/news/jugurtha.aspx
It depends what you're looking for. I interned with Schlumberger a couple of years ago[0].
One of the things I have noticed is a two-sided lack of awareness:
- People on HN (representative of the "tech community") almost forget that software is everywhere, not just at Google, Facebook, or Dropbox.
- Oilfield service companies don't try really hard to attract top talent. I mean, Schlumberger jokes that it's the "biggest company you've never heard of". I was a teenager fiddling with my Samsung phone, and in the crypto side, there was SLB technology and RSA. Later, I learned that they were behind Java Cards and when I got to college, I used function generators and oscilloscopes that were made by them.
Although from your handle and the name on the (dead) link, and the fact you're in LA, I'd guess you are Iranian so you probably heard of it.
I think it's ironic that a lot of hackers almost think software is only desktop or mobile. Tools that do a frigging MRI, Sonic, Gamma rays and what-not tens of thousands of feet below the surface and spit data that's visualized on the surface in real time. These babies are pretty neat technology I can tell you.
I think that hackers can have a bigger impact in fields that are not "obviously" "softwary". I mean, what's the marginal benefit of a hacker joining Dropbox vs that of joining an industry where the cutting edge is Visual Basic Macros.
One would argue it's not as glamourous as to work at Facebook, another might argue that if you strip it down, the average Facebook user thinks Paulo Coelho is deep, uses LOL and LMFAO in sentences, and shares Game of Thrones memes.
So you might look at where someone with your skills can have a bigger impact. An LED in the night looks so bright, after all.
[0]: https://careers.slb.com/whoweare/news/jugurtha.aspx
I had the same problem finding an internship. Then I found out that it was likely because I wasn't altering my resume "keywords" enough when I was applying to different positions. Resumes submitted online are usually scanned by applicant tracking systems software in order to weed out applicants. I would recommend using www.jobscan.co to optimize your resume with relevant keywords and make sure you beat the resume black hole!
> Why can't I get an internship?
May I suggest an ultimately smarter investment of your time this summer; absorb the lessons of Dale Carnegie.
Warren Buffett on Dale Carnegie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7gXaPY524I
May I suggest an ultimately smarter investment of your time this summer; absorb the lessons of Dale Carnegie.
Warren Buffett on Dale Carnegie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7gXaPY524I
I know this won't help in the short term but I would highly encourage you to participate in hackathons or work on side projects and list those on your resume along with what you learned. It gives you character and makes yourself memorable to the reader.
Where's your resume?
added to OP
I appear to have missed it since the link is now broken. If you're looking for more feedback, email me a PDF? (My email is in my profile.)
General progression to a job:
- resume is broken. no interviews. fix resume => get interviews.
- bad at interviews. practice at interviews => get offers.
- orthogonally, build skills actually necessary for job.
- also orthogonally, meet cool people (also known as "networking") that you mutually like working with. sometimes you refer each other to jobs. depending on the kind of person you are, you might become co-founders.
- ???
- have a job
General progression to a job:
- resume is broken. no interviews. fix resume => get interviews.
- bad at interviews. practice at interviews => get offers.
- orthogonally, build skills actually necessary for job.
- also orthogonally, meet cool people (also known as "networking") that you mutually like working with. sometimes you refer each other to jobs. depending on the kind of person you are, you might become co-founders.
- ???
- have a job
github for reference: https://github.com/m3hr
edit: I am a rising sophomore
edit 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/odcjcf7hsvzaxm7/farnoosh_2015_cv.pdf?dl=0 resume, though I'm a little uncomfortable to post this for privacy reasons