Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower(medium.com)
medium.com
Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
https://medium.com/@katylevinson/sexism-in-tech-don-t-ask-me-unless-you-re-ready-to-call-somebody-a-whistleblower-e5d545e547b0
370 comments
I'm sorry but this is insane. I guess I can only speak to the segment of the tech industry I've been exposed to, but a woman would not be labelled a liability for reporting a rape or an assault, unless maybe it turned out to be false, in which case that's no different than any other industry. I am sure workplace rape and assault happens in every industry, unfortunately, but I've seen no evidence it's more common or accepted in tech than anywhere else. It's certainly not systematized or condoned. I can't believe Google (for whom she has worked) has any more lenient of a policy on sexual harassment or assault than any other Fortune 500.
And if it were this bad, why would she fear being ostracized? If my options were to stay in an industry and be repeatedly harassed, beaten, and raped, or switch careers, I don't think it'd be a tough call.
And if it were this bad, why would she fear being ostracized? If my options were to stay in an industry and be repeatedly harassed, beaten, and raped, or switch careers, I don't think it'd be a tough call.
I didn't understand what this was about, based on the title.
As it turned out, it's an incredibly interesting, important, and sad essay on the severe consequences that exist for women who fight for their own physical/emotional safety (and the safety of others).
If you want to know how people can repeatedly rape coworkers and get away with it, you should read this article.
As it turned out, it's an incredibly interesting, important, and sad essay on the severe consequences that exist for women who fight for their own physical/emotional safety (and the safety of others).
If you want to know how people can repeatedly rape coworkers and get away with it, you should read this article.
It seems to me that a lot of women are left with pretty much two options in a lot of these situations: the lethal option, and submission. Calling the police or going to HR is the "lethal" option, meaning that, in all likelihood, there is going to be a big problem, and somebody is going to suffer.
I think the following scenario should be easy to understand (if not familiar) for most people: A person is walking down the street, when somebody approaches them and tells them to surrender their wallet. What would most people recommend in this situation? "Let them take your wallet, there's no point in risking your life"? What if the person being mugged revealed they were carrying a weapon capable of deadly force? Would you recommend that they use it to defend themselves?
Would your recommendation change if the threatening person in question had a position of default trust (e.g. a police officer), or a member of a powerful gang?
Now imagine a person in a scenario where, instead of just walking down the street, they are approached _in their office_ by somebody they trust, and instead of being asked for their wallet, they are asked for something incredibly more traumatic and unrecoverable, under the threat of complete financial destruction or possibly even physical harm.
I would never want to find out which way I would decide, in any of these situations. It's abominable that anyone should have to make that kind of choice, and it's worse still that it seems to be happening under our very noses and nobody can see it.
I think this article sets forth some very powerful, actionable ideas that are not only gender-neutral, but generally applicable in many other industries for many other classes of people who need options.
I think the following scenario should be easy to understand (if not familiar) for most people: A person is walking down the street, when somebody approaches them and tells them to surrender their wallet. What would most people recommend in this situation? "Let them take your wallet, there's no point in risking your life"? What if the person being mugged revealed they were carrying a weapon capable of deadly force? Would you recommend that they use it to defend themselves?
Would your recommendation change if the threatening person in question had a position of default trust (e.g. a police officer), or a member of a powerful gang?
Now imagine a person in a scenario where, instead of just walking down the street, they are approached _in their office_ by somebody they trust, and instead of being asked for their wallet, they are asked for something incredibly more traumatic and unrecoverable, under the threat of complete financial destruction or possibly even physical harm.
I would never want to find out which way I would decide, in any of these situations. It's abominable that anyone should have to make that kind of choice, and it's worse still that it seems to be happening under our very noses and nobody can see it.
I think this article sets forth some very powerful, actionable ideas that are not only gender-neutral, but generally applicable in many other industries for many other classes of people who need options.
As a hetero male that is relatively new to management, what can I do to let my direct reports, indirect reports, and other colleagues know that they can report these kinds of things to me, and I will take them seriously? I don't have any women reporting directly to me right now, but it's very likely to happen over the next year, and I want to be proactive from the get-go.
I've heard men in the tech space who I would normally have considered very nice people say extremely sexist / homophobic / transphobic things. When I've called them out on it, they've been surprised that anyone was offended. As I've said, otherwise really nice guys, but they seem to have just thought such comments were acceptable in the context of the 'community'. Strange stuff.
Wow. This is such a good piece. Seriously, this is incredibly well-thought out and well-written, in a very intentional way. Thanks to the author.
I am pleased that it's on the HN front page. And I was at first pleased to see such a long comments thread, that people were interested in discussing it.
But man, this discussion is depressing me. Arguing about the legal definition of rape, really, that's what HN feels like talking about in response to this piece?
I am pleased that it's on the HN front page. And I was at first pleased to see such a long comments thread, that people were interested in discussing it.
But man, this discussion is depressing me. Arguing about the legal definition of rape, really, that's what HN feels like talking about in response to this piece?
I feel they could have done it without making my boss feel like he was being directly threatened with a huge HR complaint. It’s a real shame for our tech culture that there is no way to get somebody tutored about what is and isn’t appropriate without also landing them in deep trouble.
I'd like to add the only education available to teach people social interactions, outside of being self-taught, is PUA material, as well as in-house education on how to influence masses in the intelligence community. Which means if you weren't in a situation to talk to enough people while you were growing up, later on in life you'll miss out on jobs, you'll feel insecure, you'll make inappropriate comments, you'll have difficulty making friends, you'll have difficulty seducing a potential mate, you'll get divorced later on due to inability to manage arguments and fights and conflicts.
Families have been getting smaller - first people stopped living with close to their relatives, then people stopped living with their parents and siblings, and now people begin to stop living with their husbands or wives, and children without at least one of their parents, and parents having fewer siblings in general.
People are receiving less practical experience in interacting socially as they are growing up. You either fit in at school and do well, or you don't and isolate yourself and fall behind.
We have a mess at university campuses. We have a mess in tech companies. We have growing numbers of men who are 'losers'. We have growing numbers of women who can't get married if they want to. We have growing instances of inappropriate behaviour at work. Men and women resorting to electronic means to communicate, and avoiding face-to-face interaction, even among friends. Parents sent to nursing homes, pension spending growing and unsustainable. People growing up with little to no spiritual values besides materialism. etc, etc.
I think all of these stem from smaller families, causing less exposure to social interaction with others of the same age as well as with the older generation, resulting in less wisdom passed down, and decreased social ability of people growing up.
And it's only going to continue to get worse.
Though maybe people getting poor and being forced to stay with their parents for long might just be where the second derivative is beginning to turn.
I'd like to add the only education available to teach people social interactions, outside of being self-taught, is PUA material, as well as in-house education on how to influence masses in the intelligence community. Which means if you weren't in a situation to talk to enough people while you were growing up, later on in life you'll miss out on jobs, you'll feel insecure, you'll make inappropriate comments, you'll have difficulty making friends, you'll have difficulty seducing a potential mate, you'll get divorced later on due to inability to manage arguments and fights and conflicts.
Families have been getting smaller - first people stopped living with close to their relatives, then people stopped living with their parents and siblings, and now people begin to stop living with their husbands or wives, and children without at least one of their parents, and parents having fewer siblings in general.
People are receiving less practical experience in interacting socially as they are growing up. You either fit in at school and do well, or you don't and isolate yourself and fall behind.
We have a mess at university campuses. We have a mess in tech companies. We have growing numbers of men who are 'losers'. We have growing numbers of women who can't get married if they want to. We have growing instances of inappropriate behaviour at work. Men and women resorting to electronic means to communicate, and avoiding face-to-face interaction, even among friends. Parents sent to nursing homes, pension spending growing and unsustainable. People growing up with little to no spiritual values besides materialism. etc, etc.
I think all of these stem from smaller families, causing less exposure to social interaction with others of the same age as well as with the older generation, resulting in less wisdom passed down, and decreased social ability of people growing up.
And it's only going to continue to get worse.
Though maybe people getting poor and being forced to stay with their parents for long might just be where the second derivative is beginning to turn.
#2 of the recommendations at the end (correction without punishment when appropriate) is an excellent point that I've rarely/never seen discussed in articles like this. It reminds me of a past job where a friend of mine silently put up with (relatively low-level) harassment because she didn't want to get the guy pilloried.
I think one confounding issue with sexism in tech is that companies find it so uncomfortable to talk about that they shy away from real analysis - adopting whatever policy comes to mind without seriously examining what the root cause was and whether they're addressing it.
The only solution is cogent discussion, like this excellent article.
I think one confounding issue with sexism in tech is that companies find it so uncomfortable to talk about that they shy away from real analysis - adopting whatever policy comes to mind without seriously examining what the root cause was and whether they're addressing it.
The only solution is cogent discussion, like this excellent article.
I can't help but think this is a problem in america and not a problem in tech. Over here (UK) I've never seen or heard of anything like this.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and I've just never seen it.
Either way, it's not on and it needs to stop
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and I've just never seen it.
Either way, it's not on and it needs to stop
[deleted]
I don't know what it's like to be raped or sexually harassed, but I am frequently amused at how skeptics think it's so cut-and-dry to just report the issue. This came up in Kelly Ellis's public revelation yesterday that she had been sexually harassed at Google.
The Twitter thread starts here:
https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/574092972624490497
The following is Ellis's statement, and then one of her more earnest "Oh really?" critics:
Ellis: Rod Chavez is an engineering director at Google, he sexually harassed me, Google did nothing about it. Reprimanded me instead of him
Twitter user: That's a very serious allegation. Hope you have evidence to back it up.
Ellis: Lol already dudes going, "where's the proof?" Do you expect women to wear wires whenever they're sexually harassed? Trust women.
Twitter user: there is a difference between questioning and accusations. I'm not calling her liar. Just requesting evidence...In general, to have been a victim of a crime, and not seeing the offender be punished must be awful. But there is a reason...we have the right to a fair trial. We all know the consequences of letting random people on the Internet serve justice.
Again, I've never been raped. But the last time I made a criminal complaint, it was when I was robbed of my phone at gunpoint a few years ago in New York. Granted, I acted quite foolishly...not having my phone, and not having used a payphone in years...My first instinct was to continue heading home, which was about 6 to 7 blocks away, so that I could lookup the nearest police station and walk over there...not realizing I could dial 911 anywhere, or at least go into the nearest storefront. So that bizarre behavior led to me getting quite the grilling from the first detective to respond, who outright accused me of making up the story because I didn't want to admit that I had a rough night with a hooker who robbed me of my belongings (apparently it's weird for a man to walk alone through Greeenwich Village at night)?
Anyway, long story short, no big deal. I knew I had plenty of evidence that this happened to me, including having tracking software on my (Android) phone...and while that was my first time being a victim of a violent crime, I've had enough experience with cops (being a former cops reporter) to understand where the skepticism was coming from, and also, to know that it was pretty tame compared to what other victims get. That said, if that was the treatment that I got, for an extremely cut-and-dry kind of crime (not too many debates over what constitutes armed robbery)...can you imagine the process that a rape victim has to go through? Or in the case of Ellis, someone who experienced non-criminal sexual harassment? Reporting a crime or a violation isn't as simple as hitting a button, it always consists of a non-trivial process (for me, besides the 4 hours of waiting for and then talking to the detective on the night of the incident, I missed a couple days of work to go to the station, fill out paperwork, do more interviews, etc).
To use the parlance of today's times, there's considerable "friction" in reporting an incident, regardless of the complexity of the issue. Whatever your stance on "is sexual harassment a prevalent problem or not?", at least recognize that the reporting of such a problem is easier to think about than to actually do.
edit:
To elaborate a little more...in my situation, the choice to report a crime was pretty obvious: I want my phone back, and also, the robber is obviously in the wrong. Quite frankly, I don't think I would've gone to the cops had it been a midnight phone-snatching (it's New York after all)...but since the robber escalated it by introducing a weapon, can't really just ignore the incident.
From my understanding, a rape or harassment victim does not have even remotely such an easy decision. Besides the emotional trauma, there's a huge amount of plain confusion -- rape/harassment is almost always perpetrated by someone who knows the victim, and sometimes someone the victim considered to be a friend. If a friend randomly punches me and takes my phone, after the "WTF was that about?" that I'd go through...I'm not even sure I could just go straight to the cops...Maybe my friend was drunk? Or pulling an elaborate prank? I'd at least want to call him (or email him, since he has my phone). And I guarantee that unless the punch caused serious injury to me, the cops are going to say, "WTF is wrong with you and your friend?", not immediately put out an all-points-bulletin to arrest my friend. And even if he's clearly in the wrong, think about all awkwardness in your social network that comes when the cops do arrive and arrest your friend...and we're not even at the indictment phase yet.
So again, just making assumptions, but when the crime is as controversial and "he said/she said" as rape or harassment...the decision to make a report does not at all seem like an easy one.
The Twitter thread starts here:
https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/574092972624490497
The following is Ellis's statement, and then one of her more earnest "Oh really?" critics:
Ellis: Rod Chavez is an engineering director at Google, he sexually harassed me, Google did nothing about it. Reprimanded me instead of him
Twitter user: That's a very serious allegation. Hope you have evidence to back it up.
Ellis: Lol already dudes going, "where's the proof?" Do you expect women to wear wires whenever they're sexually harassed? Trust women.
Twitter user: there is a difference between questioning and accusations. I'm not calling her liar. Just requesting evidence...In general, to have been a victim of a crime, and not seeing the offender be punished must be awful. But there is a reason...we have the right to a fair trial. We all know the consequences of letting random people on the Internet serve justice.
Again, I've never been raped. But the last time I made a criminal complaint, it was when I was robbed of my phone at gunpoint a few years ago in New York. Granted, I acted quite foolishly...not having my phone, and not having used a payphone in years...My first instinct was to continue heading home, which was about 6 to 7 blocks away, so that I could lookup the nearest police station and walk over there...not realizing I could dial 911 anywhere, or at least go into the nearest storefront. So that bizarre behavior led to me getting quite the grilling from the first detective to respond, who outright accused me of making up the story because I didn't want to admit that I had a rough night with a hooker who robbed me of my belongings (apparently it's weird for a man to walk alone through Greeenwich Village at night)?
Anyway, long story short, no big deal. I knew I had plenty of evidence that this happened to me, including having tracking software on my (Android) phone...and while that was my first time being a victim of a violent crime, I've had enough experience with cops (being a former cops reporter) to understand where the skepticism was coming from, and also, to know that it was pretty tame compared to what other victims get. That said, if that was the treatment that I got, for an extremely cut-and-dry kind of crime (not too many debates over what constitutes armed robbery)...can you imagine the process that a rape victim has to go through? Or in the case of Ellis, someone who experienced non-criminal sexual harassment? Reporting a crime or a violation isn't as simple as hitting a button, it always consists of a non-trivial process (for me, besides the 4 hours of waiting for and then talking to the detective on the night of the incident, I missed a couple days of work to go to the station, fill out paperwork, do more interviews, etc).
To use the parlance of today's times, there's considerable "friction" in reporting an incident, regardless of the complexity of the issue. Whatever your stance on "is sexual harassment a prevalent problem or not?", at least recognize that the reporting of such a problem is easier to think about than to actually do.
edit:
To elaborate a little more...in my situation, the choice to report a crime was pretty obvious: I want my phone back, and also, the robber is obviously in the wrong. Quite frankly, I don't think I would've gone to the cops had it been a midnight phone-snatching (it's New York after all)...but since the robber escalated it by introducing a weapon, can't really just ignore the incident.
From my understanding, a rape or harassment victim does not have even remotely such an easy decision. Besides the emotional trauma, there's a huge amount of plain confusion -- rape/harassment is almost always perpetrated by someone who knows the victim, and sometimes someone the victim considered to be a friend. If a friend randomly punches me and takes my phone, after the "WTF was that about?" that I'd go through...I'm not even sure I could just go straight to the cops...Maybe my friend was drunk? Or pulling an elaborate prank? I'd at least want to call him (or email him, since he has my phone). And I guarantee that unless the punch caused serious injury to me, the cops are going to say, "WTF is wrong with you and your friend?", not immediately put out an all-points-bulletin to arrest my friend. And even if he's clearly in the wrong, think about all awkwardness in your social network that comes when the cops do arrive and arrest your friend...and we're not even at the indictment phase yet.
So again, just making assumptions, but when the crime is as controversial and "he said/she said" as rape or harassment...the decision to make a report does not at all seem like an easy one.
"I have been raped by a colleague — not just once, but several times over months."
As much as I want to read this as hyperbole it doesn't look like that's the case. I guess it may be because I consider myself a level-headed person, and have (to the best of my knowledge) never even interacted with someone that vicious.
A person like that doesn't deserve just to be reprimanded. They should be in jail.
As much as I want to read this as hyperbole it doesn't look like that's the case. I guess it may be because I consider myself a level-headed person, and have (to the best of my knowledge) never even interacted with someone that vicious.
A person like that doesn't deserve just to be reprimanded. They should be in jail.
I cannot fathom how it is possible to get raped by a co-worker several times. This is obviously a sore point socially so I'll emphasize here that that's what I assume has happened because she wrote so. I'm just curious about how that could, in reality, happen?
I can think of a few cases where rape could plausibly happen in a work setting but I can't see how they could continue:
1) violent rape using physical force: there will be fighting back, injuries, scars, and blood from the assault, and the victim goes to file a report to the police, and gets to a doctor to be examined and her (his?) intimate cavities analyzed for the rapist DNA. These facts can be verified quite easily if the rapist is known.
2) a dinner, for example, at a work trip together with the co-worker went one step too far: depending on what actually happened this could translate back to 1) or fall in the grey area in which case the bare minimum that can be done is to not spend time with said co-worker alone again in non-public places.
A majority of rapes fall into domestic relationships, dating gone wrong, passing out in wrong company after too much alcohol, or other circumstances projected on an established or a potential sexual relationship, and these might traditionally be the cases where women generally don't report them as rapes for one reason or another. Maybe she is loyal to her abusing husband. Or maybe she thinks she gave wrong signals at the end of the date.
But work relations do not by default imply sexual relations: there's no pretense that could escalate in a horribly wrong way. This sounds stupid but, for example, you can't go to too many meetings and let someone interpret that as a "yes". So I'm just wondering that barring 1), the violent assault, how does this happen?
I can think of a few cases where rape could plausibly happen in a work setting but I can't see how they could continue:
1) violent rape using physical force: there will be fighting back, injuries, scars, and blood from the assault, and the victim goes to file a report to the police, and gets to a doctor to be examined and her (his?) intimate cavities analyzed for the rapist DNA. These facts can be verified quite easily if the rapist is known.
2) a dinner, for example, at a work trip together with the co-worker went one step too far: depending on what actually happened this could translate back to 1) or fall in the grey area in which case the bare minimum that can be done is to not spend time with said co-worker alone again in non-public places.
A majority of rapes fall into domestic relationships, dating gone wrong, passing out in wrong company after too much alcohol, or other circumstances projected on an established or a potential sexual relationship, and these might traditionally be the cases where women generally don't report them as rapes for one reason or another. Maybe she is loyal to her abusing husband. Or maybe she thinks she gave wrong signals at the end of the date.
But work relations do not by default imply sexual relations: there's no pretense that could escalate in a horribly wrong way. This sounds stupid but, for example, you can't go to too many meetings and let someone interpret that as a "yes". So I'm just wondering that barring 1), the violent assault, how does this happen?
> he frequently came out with scary-harsh messages that had little relation to reality, like being worried about who he asked to help carry heavy equipment
That's "scary-harsh?"
Fact: women are not as strong as men. It's not even a question.
Go look at weightlifting records, if you don't believe that. Even elite, lifelong female powerlifters max out at weights that a man in the same weight class can throw up for reps with just a moderate amount of training.
Disclaimer: I believe everything else cited in the article is absolutely horrible, but this particular thing is not.
That's "scary-harsh?"
Fact: women are not as strong as men. It's not even a question.
Go look at weightlifting records, if you don't believe that. Even elite, lifelong female powerlifters max out at weights that a man in the same weight class can throw up for reps with just a moderate amount of training.
Disclaimer: I believe everything else cited in the article is absolutely horrible, but this particular thing is not.
The title with punctuation:
Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready To Call Somebody a Whistleblower
I found it intersting, but there is a part I couldn't really understand.
Does she define rape as an aggretion and not just grey area sex? Because as I understand it it would fall under criminal charges, not 'sexism', most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it, and the police arresting a co-worker wouldn't be whistleblowing, just basic law inforcement.
Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready To Call Somebody a Whistleblower
I found it intersting, but there is a part I couldn't really understand.
Does she define rape as an aggretion and not just grey area sex? Because as I understand it it would fall under criminal charges, not 'sexism', most of the time there would be physical/tangible proofs attached to it, and the police arresting a co-worker wouldn't be whistleblowing, just basic law inforcement.
This girl is lying, the story doesn't make sense and everybody here are too nice to point it out so they try with this typical programmer passive nice way to point out how the story doesn't add up and how nobody actually faced this kind of environment anywhere.
Guys, have some balls, call bullshit when it's due. The tech industry is not more sexist than any other industry, the opposite. I have seen much more mischief in one coked up night among traders than my whole career in tech. And you know what, girls love those people and want to work with them or do other things with them, because they don't apologise and they call girls on their bullshit. That's why you will see more women in finance or law than in tech.
It's also easier and you don't have to spend your days and night secluded in front of a monitor. It is all excuses by women who don't want to put the time, effort and social price that it takes to become a good software developer. The women who do it right and i have worked with some during the years, don't complain about rape, they write great code and everybody respect them for that.
Guys, have some balls, call bullshit when it's due. The tech industry is not more sexist than any other industry, the opposite. I have seen much more mischief in one coked up night among traders than my whole career in tech. And you know what, girls love those people and want to work with them or do other things with them, because they don't apologise and they call girls on their bullshit. That's why you will see more women in finance or law than in tech.
It's also easier and you don't have to spend your days and night secluded in front of a monitor. It is all excuses by women who don't want to put the time, effort and social price that it takes to become a good software developer. The women who do it right and i have worked with some during the years, don't complain about rape, they write great code and everybody respect them for that.
I don't want to openly doubt rape, but jesus, several times over several months? Call the police, or at least avoid a situation if possible. Clearly she is willing to talk about it, so where's the police report?
Also, every time I read one of these articles I cringe. There's a big movement to "include women in tech", but it's interesting to note that (in my experience) there is a large group (bordering on majority) of women in tech that are just as disgusted by these articles.
My girlfriend finds it particularly offensive, her comments usually being something along the lines of: "If women want to be treated as equals, they should act like equals, not complain." Point being, she finds these articles counter productive, and most of the women whinny. She thinks a lot of the people in tech can be weird, and this can lead to people believing it there sexism, when in actuality it is just awkward behavior.
Finally, and my personal opinion, no one supports rape, sexual harassment or racism, and any subconscious bias is pretty hard to discern. It would be better to involve the authorities if you feel you are being rapped or harassed. From my personal point of view I have seen SO many women complain about being harassed or put down, and the fact is they may have, but I have never seen it. I work regularly with women in my jobs and I've never seen or had a problem. Some are bad team members and some are good. They are usually treated by skill level from my experience, and I have seen this taken as sexism more than once.
Other places are different (apparently) and if that's the case, punish the crap out of the people who harass women/race.
BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, stop putting me in a group with these people. I'm calling bullshit on not just this article, but half these articles. There is definitely less women in tech, and nothing is inherently wrong with that. If there's something I can do to make it more inclusive, I will. However, please OP and anyone reading this, come at it with an open mind. Just because women aren't in tech does not imply something is wrong. Women and men are different, it's okay as long as it is not a sexist barrier. Just not having a lot of women does not mean there is that barrier.
Every situation is different, and you may have indeed been wronged (and I can sympathize), but stop generalizing. It's borderline sexism to claim "everyone in tech is sexist against women," we all know males have to watch themselves and be careful. That's probably why the OP was offered money, people are so scared of being called sexist, because it's so blown out of proportion. Handle it like everything else, with a clear mind.
If we are going to talk about sexism, give me the facts, give me the barrier, and give me a way I can fix it besides just being "subconsciously and uncontrollably bias." If that can't be done, then there probably isn't justification to discuss the concerns (yet).
Also, every time I read one of these articles I cringe. There's a big movement to "include women in tech", but it's interesting to note that (in my experience) there is a large group (bordering on majority) of women in tech that are just as disgusted by these articles.
My girlfriend finds it particularly offensive, her comments usually being something along the lines of: "If women want to be treated as equals, they should act like equals, not complain." Point being, she finds these articles counter productive, and most of the women whinny. She thinks a lot of the people in tech can be weird, and this can lead to people believing it there sexism, when in actuality it is just awkward behavior.
Finally, and my personal opinion, no one supports rape, sexual harassment or racism, and any subconscious bias is pretty hard to discern. It would be better to involve the authorities if you feel you are being rapped or harassed. From my personal point of view I have seen SO many women complain about being harassed or put down, and the fact is they may have, but I have never seen it. I work regularly with women in my jobs and I've never seen or had a problem. Some are bad team members and some are good. They are usually treated by skill level from my experience, and I have seen this taken as sexism more than once.
Other places are different (apparently) and if that's the case, punish the crap out of the people who harass women/race.
BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, stop putting me in a group with these people. I'm calling bullshit on not just this article, but half these articles. There is definitely less women in tech, and nothing is inherently wrong with that. If there's something I can do to make it more inclusive, I will. However, please OP and anyone reading this, come at it with an open mind. Just because women aren't in tech does not imply something is wrong. Women and men are different, it's okay as long as it is not a sexist barrier. Just not having a lot of women does not mean there is that barrier.
Every situation is different, and you may have indeed been wronged (and I can sympathize), but stop generalizing. It's borderline sexism to claim "everyone in tech is sexist against women," we all know males have to watch themselves and be careful. That's probably why the OP was offered money, people are so scared of being called sexist, because it's so blown out of proportion. Handle it like everything else, with a clear mind.
If we are going to talk about sexism, give me the facts, give me the barrier, and give me a way I can fix it besides just being "subconsciously and uncontrollably bias." If that can't be done, then there probably isn't justification to discuss the concerns (yet).
U.N. Finds ‘Alarmingly High’ Levels of Violence Against Women - About 35 percent of women worldwide — more than one in three — said they had experienced violence in their lifetime, whether physical, sexual, or both, the report finds. One in 10 girls under the age of 18 was forced to have sex, it says.
[deleted]
I didn't read the whole article on my first read, and missed the most important parts, which are "What can I do?". So I'm going to throw HN etiquette to the wind, and just quote it verbatim.
> What needs to change is three-fold.
>
> The first thing needed is pretty simple: In all organizations, demand that there
> exists a code of conduct and clear methodto report misconduct. Imagine right
> now that you have just witnessed something inappropriate in your workplace, at
> a conference or in a community. Do you have a place you could report it? Do you
> trust that it would be handled properly, or would they just try to avoid
> liability? Do you believe you would personally suffer for making such a report?
> If you’re not comfortable with any of those answers, you have work to do.
> Reconsider what systems have been created, and fight for ones that treat this
> like a whistleblowing issue, not something to be “kept under control.”
>
> Second, while there will always be truly malicious people, most people are just
> don’t realize the harm of their action. There needs to be correction without
> punishment for people who are not malicious. With such a mechanism in place,
> people who see sexism in action can help fix it. At the same time, it allows
> those who are doing things wrong to learn in a safe environment. For more about
> this approach, check out some of the great articles about call-in culture. The
> goal is simple here: help your well-intentioned friends figure out they are
> hurting people without making it seem like a threat or shaming. It’s easiest for
> you if you aren’t the one being wronged. This step is important because
> whistleblowers need allies, and we need people to not be afraid of announcing
> they are allies. This means two things: One, that we be welcoming and patient
> with those striving to be better, and two, that our allies (and those of us
> trying to lead the charge) be committed to self-improvement whenever the
> opportunity presents.
>
> Third, and most important, is making a serious personal commitment to solving
> this. You’re tired of hearing about this “women in tech” stuff, and we’re tired
> of living it, but there are some big issues here, and we’re not going to solve
> them by pretending they don’t exist because we’re bored or afraid of them. We
> need serious discussions, and we have to have educated opinions about what’s
> wrong and how to fix it. We need to mull these ideas around until we come to
> some combination of hard data and cultural consensus before we can get
> meaningful change.
>
> Making a personal commitment means forming an opinion on more than just the
> broad concepts. It also requires learning about specific instances of
> harassment. Spend enough time reading material from both sides to develop a
> well-informed opinion, or be honest about not knowing enough. Don’t defend an
> opinion that isn’t well thought through. Then, use that opinion to make sure
> whistleblowing is taken seriously. When we fail to engage whistleblowing in our
> own lives or in institutions we deal with, we’re hanging the whistleblowers out
> to dry. At best, we allow them to be marked as “liabilities”; at worst, we leave
> them to suffer from enemies we don’t care to protect them against.
>
> For clarity, I’m going to now state my three specific requests:
>
> 1. Make sure the systems to handle malicious abuses of power against women have
> teeth, and that they seek to let the disenfranchised blow the whistle, rather
> than simply “keeping stuff under control.”
>
> 2. Help your well-intentioned peers who are still making mistakes do better
> without threatening them or humiliating them.
>
> 3. Make a public commitment to taking potential whistleblowers seriously. Commit
> to educating yourself, to having an opinion, and, if you believe the
> whistleblower’s claims might have merit, to helping. Live up to that commitment.
>> Realistically, only bad things happen to the whistleblower. So when someone tries to discredit one, ask yourself — what could the whistleblower’s motive possibly be? They’re knowingly ruining their own lives.
Whistle blowers become folk heroes to a lot of people. No one cared what Edward Snowden, the NSA analyst had to say. Everyone cares what Edward Snowden, the whistleblower has to say. If you want that kind of popularity and respect, be a whistleblower. I'm by no means saying that's the motivation for all whistleblowers, but I'd be dumbfounded if it wasn't the motivation for some, and separating the two is frequently difficult.
Whistle blowers become folk heroes to a lot of people. No one cared what Edward Snowden, the NSA analyst had to say. Everyone cares what Edward Snowden, the whistleblower has to say. If you want that kind of popularity and respect, be a whistleblower. I'm by no means saying that's the motivation for all whistleblowers, but I'd be dumbfounded if it wasn't the motivation for some, and separating the two is frequently difficult.
http://www.reddit.com/user/bluehrair <- that's her reddit account
This is a sad article. There used to exist guidelines to beahvior, one being "don't fish off the company dock". Following that would eliminate almost all of the sexual harassment BS.
Every time an article like this gets posted, ignorant commenters pretty much prove the thesis of the article.
So far I have learned from HN commenters:
- a hetero male would never give a BJ to a superior male no matter what therefore it is hard to understand why a woman would feel coerced into do so.
- It is not possible/credible for a woman to be raped multiple times by a coworker.
- It is the clearly the woman's fault for being raped multiple times because she should've reported it the first time and/or known how to avoid her rapist in the future
- Women calling out sexual harassers in tech will hurt the cause of getting more women in tech, therefore they should stop
- "You can't simply cry abuse and magically learn data structures and algorithms. You can't tweet or sue (well, suing require hard evidence) your way to gainful employment as an engineer. You also don't need social support to study programming, it's a hobby you can master regardless of what you look like. How did you manage"
Disappointing.
So far I have learned from HN commenters:
- a hetero male would never give a BJ to a superior male no matter what therefore it is hard to understand why a woman would feel coerced into do so.
- It is not possible/credible for a woman to be raped multiple times by a coworker.
- It is the clearly the woman's fault for being raped multiple times because she should've reported it the first time and/or known how to avoid her rapist in the future
- Women calling out sexual harassers in tech will hurt the cause of getting more women in tech, therefore they should stop
- "You can't simply cry abuse and magically learn data structures and algorithms. You can't tweet or sue (well, suing require hard evidence) your way to gainful employment as an engineer. You also don't need social support to study programming, it's a hobby you can master regardless of what you look like. How did you manage"
Disappointing.
I'm really sad this got downvoted off the front page (this article is only one hour old with 9 points, things 3 hours old with 9 points are still on the page). It's cool if not everybody is interested in talking about this, but I feel like the entire point of this article was that making whistle-blowers harder to hear is not good for society.
I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a focal point for specific change.
For example, how do colleagues end up even physically alone in the same space together especially after the first RAPE? Does this stem from unsupervised after-work parties that employees feel obligated to attend? Is it related to conferences or work travel? Clearly she would seek to avoid being near her rapist alone but couldn't. Are there things companies can be doing to better avoid such scenarios?