Edward Snowden asylum: Bolivian president's plane diverted - live coverage(guardiannews.com)
guardiannews.com
Edward Snowden asylum: Bolivian president's plane diverted - live coverage
http://guardiannews.com/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live
43 comments
Oh wow, this sounds very significant. Looks like the US is trying to show the world that nobody exposes shady government tactics and lives.
No, they are trying to show the world the value of collecting data on millions of innocent law abiding citizens and how it enables accurate targeting of which plane a whistleblower is on almost as well as it can prevent terrorists bombing marathons and flying into buildings.
+1 for truthiness
That's such a weird request. What, Portugal or France were going to shoot down the Bolivian president's plane if it didn't comply? Yeah, ok.
I find it odd that this was demanded, and also odd that it then happened. Anyone have insight on either of these counts?
EDIT: Portugal
I find it odd that this was demanded, and also odd that it then happened. Anyone have insight on either of these counts?
EDIT: Portugal
Apparently the Bolivian presidential aircraft is a Sabreliner [0], which has a much shorter range than a big commercial jet. It may be unable to cross the Atlantic without a fuel stop near the coast. If Spain, France, and Portugal all say "don't fly here", they may not intend to shoot the thing down, but they might very well refuse to allow the aircraft to refuel when it lands.
[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabreliner
[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabreliner
I believe it's a Dassault Falcon. See: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/fab-001
Still a good point, but a Falcon has about twice the range.
Still a good point, but a Falcon has about twice the range.
Ahh, I failed to check the date on the "Falcon grounded" note at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_stat...
Either way, though, flying from Moscow to Bolivia is going to require a fuel stop or two, and the middle of the Atlantic is not a good place for that.
Either way, though, flying from Moscow to Bolivia is going to require a fuel stop or two, and the middle of the Atlantic is not a good place for that.
As far as I can surmise, the reason that the Bolivian president complied was due to the fact that had he not, it would at the very least, be seen as an act of aggression, and could possibly be seen as much more.
Though they wouldn't threaten to shoot the plane down per se, you can bet they'd send up a few armed and loaded fighter jets to 'escort' the president's plane either out of their air space or to a safe landing zone where he could then explain himself to the proper authorities.
Though they wouldn't threaten to shoot the plane down per se, you can bet they'd send up a few armed and loaded fighter jets to 'escort' the president's plane either out of their air space or to a safe landing zone where he could then explain himself to the proper authorities.
[deleted]
s/Spain/Portugal/
Ohhh I get it. Very clever, Wikileaks!
Certain countries, I believe Switzerland is one, require for asylum some proof that your home country/maybe certain other countries can't protect you.
This was a show of proof. They knew somebody would take the bait.
Certain countries, I believe Switzerland is one, require for asylum some proof that your home country/maybe certain other countries can't protect you.
This was a show of proof. They knew somebody would take the bait.
There's no confirmation yet of Snowden being on board, however wikileaks has offered this cryptic tweet:
"The reported actions of France, Portugal and Spain this night will live in infamy."
Source: http://thegrandsignal.com/edward-snowden-supposedly-stranded...
"The reported actions of France, Portugal and Spain this night will live in infamy."
Source: http://thegrandsignal.com/edward-snowden-supposedly-stranded...
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/352194716680462336
Doesn't mean that France, Portugal and Spain actually thwarted any plans, but only showed their hand, and that they certainly would attempt to thwart any such plans if they could. I suppose wikileaks' tweet is just saying "shame on you for even trying..."
Doesn't mean that France, Portugal and Spain actually thwarted any plans, but only showed their hand, and that they certainly would attempt to thwart any such plans if they could. I suppose wikileaks' tweet is just saying "shame on you for even trying..."
If this turns out to be true, I will never again travel to these countries and spend my tourist dollars there. Not saying this is true, but if it is, NO MORE FRENCH CHEESE :-)
Hopefully Morales' plane was just a diversion and there's another plane with Snowden on it on its way somewhere else...
Latest update:
less than 1m ago Snowden is not on the plane, AFP reports AFP are reporting that Austrian foreign ministry officials have confirmed Edward Snowden is not on the plane.
The report continues:
"President Morales will leave early Wednesday morning for La Paz," the Bolivian capital, ministry spokesman Alexander Schallenberg told AFP. Austria did not know why Morales's plane had landed there, he added.
less than 1m ago Snowden is not on the plane, AFP reports AFP are reporting that Austrian foreign ministry officials have confirmed Edward Snowden is not on the plane.
The report continues:
"President Morales will leave early Wednesday morning for La Paz," the Bolivian capital, ministry spokesman Alexander Schallenberg told AFP. Austria did not know why Morales's plane had landed there, he added.
Ex-pat in Bolivia here. People here are _pissed_ at this abuse. I wish Snowden does make his way here to Bolivia and hides in the jungle. Good luck finding him.
[deleted]
An interesting choice if he were seeking to flee (/defect, perhaps) to Bolivia, as they have an extradition treaty with the United States [1].
It's bilateral, but I wonder if the Bolivians would keep him after the US refused to send them their former coca-growing president [2].
[1] http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/traites/en_traites-ext-us... [PDF]
[2] http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/12/why_did_the...
It's bilateral, but I wonder if the Bolivians would keep him after the US refused to send them their former coca-growing president [2].
[1] http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/traites/en_traites-ext-us... [PDF]
[2] http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/12/why_did_the...
Having an extradition treaty doesn't automatically mean that the process will be successful or quick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition So don't hold your breath.
> US refused to send them their former coca-growing president
Not a shocker to me. They refused Poland sending a guy involved in contracting mob hitmen on our national police chief http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mazur
> US refused to send them their former coca-growing president
Not a shocker to me. They refused Poland sending a guy involved in contracting mob hitmen on our national police chief http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mazur
As stated in [2], it's the current President who is coca-growing, not the former one they want the US to extradite.
[deleted]
Clearly of no significance, but after reading Snowden's statement last night, I decided to research notable examples of stateless persons and found this guy: https://twitter.com/mikegogulski/status/352040771853099008
He is not stateless. He is a US citizen being pursued by US Law enforcement.
Stateless people do exist and they really have it hard.
Stateless people do exist and they really have it hard.
You should correct the wikipedia article, then. According to it, he renounced his citizenship, became stateless, and prior to that he served his probation sentence, and is therefore not wanted by US law enforcement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gogulski
Always annoying when Wikipedia is wrong about everything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gogulski
Always annoying when Wikipedia is wrong about everything.
Not to argue, but he could be considered de facto stateless. However, the term stateless even being a thing piqued my interest rather more than whether or not Snowden actually is. Thus, I Wikipediaed all about it.
Renouncing your citizenship means you're no longer a citizen, no?
Interesting to see that France and Portugal are willing to risk their diplomatic relations with South America for getting Snowden. I would not have expected that. I would guess people and politicians in Bolivia are quite pissed right now.
The Guardian's "live blog" is the first place to look when Snowden news blows up.
NYT's The Lede Blog is also excellent (currently blogging Egypt news).
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/
NYT's The Lede Blog is also excellent (currently blogging Egypt news).
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/
The Guardian does a superb job with live web coverage of everything from football (soccer) matches to breaking news around the world. It's sort of just coincidence that they have a direct connection to the Snowden story in this case.
NYT actually has a perfectly cromulent story which explains some (though definitely not all) of the confusing aspects of the story. Apparently airspace shenanigans haven't been going on just today, for instance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/world/europe/snowden.html?...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/world/europe/snowden.html?...
No Snowden on board? Hiding in the smuggler cargo bays, perhaps?
I am ashamed to be French.
If not on the plane, then exactly where ARE Butch and Sundance? I have to know!