Welcome to Teams 2.0(microsoft.com)
microsoft.com
Welcome to Teams 2.0
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2023/03/27/welcome-to-the-new-era-of-microsoft-teams/
14 comments
... and not a single mention of Linux. It's kind of sad to see, that Linux remains a step-child for MS Teams. My company forced the move from Slack to Teams, and effectively downgraded the entire experience of online collaboration for everyone. C-level moved "up" from S4B to Teams and called it amazing, while all the product teams and devs that were previously using Slack have lost a huge amount of online communication & culture due to the move. Of course that was attributed to "pandemic causing us to not be able to sit in a room together" - although I never did that even before, as I was a 100% remote worker already.
Aside from that - Teams on Linux has always been a mere afterthought, badly supported, important features intentionally cut/withheld, and sometimes not even kept up to date. I've moved away from the awfully broken Electron client to running the Teams website in Chromium App mode, in a bubblewrap container. It makes it a little bit less awful, but it's still painfully slow, buggy, and annoying to use.
I understand that with the intended complexity of various integrations, using a web platform might look like a win - but for me as a user, chatting with Teams feels multiple times slower than chatting on my old Pentium 120 MHz with Win98 with Java Applets. I'm all in for good integrations, but while WebView2 might bring some performance gains for Windows and MacOS, I'm afraid that we Linux users will never see a WebView2 version, and Teams will just get even more sluggish over time.
Would it be that hard to provide some native-ish baseline experience, and extend functionality for random integrations in places where it's actually needed? i.e. insert webviews where it makes sense, instead of hamstringing the entire application for that flexibility?
Aside from that - Teams on Linux has always been a mere afterthought, badly supported, important features intentionally cut/withheld, and sometimes not even kept up to date. I've moved away from the awfully broken Electron client to running the Teams website in Chromium App mode, in a bubblewrap container. It makes it a little bit less awful, but it's still painfully slow, buggy, and annoying to use.
I understand that with the intended complexity of various integrations, using a web platform might look like a win - but for me as a user, chatting with Teams feels multiple times slower than chatting on my old Pentium 120 MHz with Win98 with Java Applets. I'm all in for good integrations, but while WebView2 might bring some performance gains for Windows and MacOS, I'm afraid that we Linux users will never see a WebView2 version, and Teams will just get even more sluggish over time.
Would it be that hard to provide some native-ish baseline experience, and extend functionality for random integrations in places where it's actually needed? i.e. insert webviews where it makes sense, instead of hamstringing the entire application for that flexibility?
Linux is just another way for Microsoft to make money.
They will never embrace it fully. It's a dish rag they wring out and use.
They will never embrace it fully. It's a dish rag they wring out and use.
My company made us move to this from Slack, killed all online camaraderie that existed in the enterprise to save some bucks.
Hope at least now it's usable, would love to be able to enumerate things, use code blocks, etc... it's a bit of a nightmare for day to day work as it was, so I'm glad at least there is some movement, as we are basically captive audience.
Hope at least now it's usable, would love to be able to enumerate things, use code blocks, etc... it's a bit of a nightmare for day to day work as it was, so I'm glad at least there is some movement, as we are basically captive audience.
> killed all online camaraderie that existed in the enterprise to save some bucks.
It's really true that Slack cultivates an online work community in a way that Teams just doesn't, and it's hard to explain to upper management who is much easier persuaded by the argument of "we're a Microsoft shop, so we'll use all the Microsoft stuff we get bundled in our 365 bundle."
The issue is that channels in Teams is so clunky and awkward compared to Slack's. It's not like a chat, it's more like a message board where you start new threads and people reply to them. They're also not easily discoverable nor easy to link people to. And maybe it's an org setting but at least at my work you can't make your own channels, so there won't be, for example, a small channel for people who like bubble tea so they can recommend restaurants or plan an outing to go get some at lunch one day.
The channels are also in a completely separate tab of the app from your chats where you spend most of your time, so people aren't aware when new conversations are happening in channels of interest to them. Unless of course you tag the channel, which gives a noisy ping to everyone in the channel, discouraging people from doing it. This is as opposed to Slack where chats and channels are all along your sidebar, so if someone is looking for help in the general dev chat or something, people in their own chats will silently see that the channel is bold, indicating there's new discussion happening there, and they might curiously click into there and see if they have anything to say.
Also while I won't argue the lack of custom emojis is some kind of productivity hindrance, they're a ton of fun and a great way to have in-jokes, either company-wide or in a small circle that help build camaraderie. At least they added most of the emojis to react a few months ago, as opposed for the 5 or so they had before.
It's really true that Slack cultivates an online work community in a way that Teams just doesn't, and it's hard to explain to upper management who is much easier persuaded by the argument of "we're a Microsoft shop, so we'll use all the Microsoft stuff we get bundled in our 365 bundle."
The issue is that channels in Teams is so clunky and awkward compared to Slack's. It's not like a chat, it's more like a message board where you start new threads and people reply to them. They're also not easily discoverable nor easy to link people to. And maybe it's an org setting but at least at my work you can't make your own channels, so there won't be, for example, a small channel for people who like bubble tea so they can recommend restaurants or plan an outing to go get some at lunch one day.
The channels are also in a completely separate tab of the app from your chats where you spend most of your time, so people aren't aware when new conversations are happening in channels of interest to them. Unless of course you tag the channel, which gives a noisy ping to everyone in the channel, discouraging people from doing it. This is as opposed to Slack where chats and channels are all along your sidebar, so if someone is looking for help in the general dev chat or something, people in their own chats will silently see that the channel is bold, indicating there's new discussion happening there, and they might curiously click into there and see if they have anything to say.
Also while I won't argue the lack of custom emojis is some kind of productivity hindrance, they're a ton of fun and a great way to have in-jokes, either company-wide or in a small circle that help build camaraderie. At least they added most of the emojis to react a few months ago, as opposed for the 5 or so they had before.
Consider adopting an unofficial Matrix, Mattermost, Signal, or Discord room "for the express purpose of the lol's" (but also your venting about Pointy-haired boss).
Just be aware that you can't prevent your pointy-haired boss from finding out about it, or from potentially seeing the words being exchanged there.
I wonder if they're still using Electron under the hood or not.
Ah seems like they're using WebView2 (based on MS Edge)
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/...
Ah seems like they're using WebView2 (based on MS Edge)
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/...
Yeah, it’s still a Chrome-based web view, just now it uses a shared library instead of essentially shipping an entire extra Chrome via Electron.
It’s unbelievable that even in the new version, it takes 9 seconds to launch.
Is there an inherent limitation here?
Is there an inherent limitation here?
The original Teams was released about 6 years ago and now they have developed a complete rewrite. The inefficiency in resource use and speed is the price you pay for the pace of development.
> Is there an inherent limitation here?
Your computer is obsolete. Have you seen the system requirements ? Neither do i. /s
Your computer is obsolete. Have you seen the system requirements ? Neither do i. /s
9 seconds to launch an app, wow.. that's still super slow..
I wonder what machine was used to test, the developer's beefy machine? a VM?
I wonder what machine was used to test, the developer's beefy machine? a VM?
9 seconds without a single crash is very fast for teams (not sarcasm)
Welcome to Teams.
> We have been listening to your feedback which has culminated in a reimagining of Teams from the ground up. The new app is built on a foundation of speed, performance, flexibility, and intelligence
I desperately hope there is any truth to this.
> game-changing new AI-powered
Lines like this have me worried that none of the popular and well complained about bugs that effect me at work every day are actually going to be fixed, instead we're probably getting something really annoying and definitely buggy.
I desperately hope there is any truth to this.
> game-changing new AI-powered
Lines like this have me worried that none of the popular and well complained about bugs that effect me at work every day are actually going to be fixed, instead we're probably getting something really annoying and definitely buggy.
It uses hundreds of MB less RAM at least.
From the admin perspective Teams is a million times better than Slack or WebEx to set up and get going with because it's all built in, works really well.
From a user perspective it sucks mainly due to the bloated nature of the app, I've used other Electron apps that feel snappy but Teams just takes forever to do anything. Hopefully this refresh on WebView2 will make it so it doesn't take multiple seconds to display that I've sent a message.
From a user perspective it sucks mainly due to the bloated nature of the app, I've used other Electron apps that feel snappy but Teams just takes forever to do anything. Hopefully this refresh on WebView2 will make it so it doesn't take multiple seconds to display that I've sent a message.
> From a user perspective it sucks mainly due to the bloated nature of the app
I'd be fine with the bloated nature of the app if it otherwise worked well. But it doesn't. The UI is a real mess. It's very confusing, easy to get stuff wrong, and is generally a real pain in the ass to use.
Since they're trumpeting "AI integration" in this version, I'm not very hopeful that 2.0 will have fixed the real issues with Teams.
I'd be fine with the bloated nature of the app if it otherwise worked well. But it doesn't. The UI is a real mess. It's very confusing, easy to get stuff wrong, and is generally a real pain in the ass to use.
Since they're trumpeting "AI integration" in this version, I'm not very hopeful that 2.0 will have fixed the real issues with Teams.
They actually fixed the channels' threaded UI so it defaults to an expanded, start a topic type posting interface and made the thread list not look like Skype anymore, so people should actually start using it correctly.
> From the admin perspective Teams is a million times better than Slack or WebEx to set up and get going with
"Search for Teams in company's approve SW instalation list, no hit. Asked a coleague: How do i install Teams. Answer: Just download it from the Internet, that's what IT told me. "
So i am not able to install any non aproved SW but i shall download Teams from the internet and run it ?
So long with security.
"Search for Teams in company's approve SW instalation list, no hit. Asked a coleague: How do i install Teams. Answer: Just download it from the Internet, that's what IT told me. "
So i am not able to install any non aproved SW but i shall download Teams from the internet and run it ?
So long with security.
> Bloated
As much as I hate teams - it's not that bad regarding bloat.
Slack web app right now is using 1gb (safari), 230 mb (brave) and 150 mb (brave).
Teams web app is using 600mb (brave).
Overall UX is horrible - can't easily insert image or code snippet, there are multiple people under same name in search that you can't reach for some reason. I was impressed by some features like meeting transcription - seemed to work flawlessly.
As much as I hate teams - it's not that bad regarding bloat.
Slack web app right now is using 1gb (safari), 230 mb (brave) and 150 mb (brave).
Teams web app is using 600mb (brave).
Overall UX is horrible - can't easily insert image or code snippet, there are multiple people under same name in search that you can't reach for some reason. I was impressed by some features like meeting transcription - seemed to work flawlessly.
Teams starting time is even slower than its OS, lol.
Coincidentally, recently Teams started crashing when opening on my iPhone. I can't even open the bloddy thing, so even being able to open it is a step up.
Bribery 2.0, let’s how many corporate will change their perfectly working platform with this slow buggy crap.
I feel very strongly that the only reason anyone uses any Microsoft software is because Microsoft makes corporate deals with every company on the planet and most people don’t bother to every try anything besides what they have to use at work.
The only reason I use Teams is because my employer forces me to. The instant that changes, I won't touch the thing again. I'm certainly not going to start using it in my personal life.
Here's hoping that with 2.0, they can at least make Teams stop completely sucking.
They actually fixed the channels' threaded UI so it defaults to an expanded, start a topic type posting interface and made the thread list not look like Skype anymore, so people should actually start using it correctly.
The new app also uses hundreds of MB less RAM.
The new app also uses hundreds of MB less RAM.
They forgot the screenshots and they are still messing with the titlebar.
I just wish for Teams to go away, so I never ever see the link to a teams call in a calendar invite.
Teams is absolutely the leader of the “nobody asked for this” category.
Teams is absolutely the leader of the “nobody asked for this” category.
Chat and videochat?
Teams is garbage.