Picwing (YC Summer 08) Debuts Their Social Digital Picture Frame(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Picwing (YC Summer 08) Debuts Their Social Digital Picture Frame
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/15/picwing-debuts-their-social-digital-picture-frame/
57 comments
Congrats on the launch guys! Awesome product.
One simple suggestion that seems to be missing and can add a lot of value for very little cost...
Allow the frames to be personalised with custom messages engraved on the wood/glass. Finding a good engraving service is easy enough, but if you had a web-form for personalised messages (with preview), these would make excellent presents for weddings/birthdays/anniversaries/etc.
Everyone loves personalisation, and the sentimental value add-in is immense.
Just ordered mine. Look forward to getting it soon(ish).
One simple suggestion that seems to be missing and can add a lot of value for very little cost...
Allow the frames to be personalised with custom messages engraved on the wood/glass. Finding a good engraving service is easy enough, but if you had a web-form for personalised messages (with preview), these would make excellent presents for weddings/birthdays/anniversaries/etc.
Everyone loves personalisation, and the sentimental value add-in is immense.
Just ordered mine. Look forward to getting it soon(ish).
Wow thats a great suggestion! We wanted to (someday) let people customize the actual frame, but the engraving takes its to a whole new level!
The way Apple allows you to do it with iPods is really nice. We'll definitely look into this feature.
The way Apple allows you to do it with iPods is really nice. We'll definitely look into this feature.
Looks cool!
Are you assembling and soldering these frames from scratch? Would love to hear more tech details on this..
Are you assembling and soldering these frames from scratch? Would love to hear more tech details on this..
Thanks! We are actually hand-building these things right now, which is why it's taking so long to ship these out to people. They're very far from perfect, and most of our hardware will probably change in the future, but we wanted to get them out to people as soon as possible to get some feedback on them.
That's pretty awesome. Is there a priority waitlist for YC alummns :)
My question is kind of mundane.
Is the power supply removable with a standard DC connector or is it built into the device?
The reason why I'm asking is that I'd like to purchase one for my mother, but since she lives in Australia the plug will be a problem unless I use a converter - which has the potential to cause problems for her (as she's not too tech savvy) and it would be easier if I go find a suitable power supply.
Is the power supply removable with a standard DC connector or is it built into the device?
The reason why I'm asking is that I'd like to purchase one for my mother, but since she lives in Australia the plug will be a problem unless I use a converter - which has the potential to cause problems for her (as she's not too tech savvy) and it would be easier if I go find a suitable power supply.
Congrats to the PicWing team. They're building the true next generation of the digital connected home. It's rare to get a team together that is so talented both on software user experience and hardware design.
This is absolutely awesome guys. Congrats. Great idea.
Please put something more into it to make it different than d-link's or any other wireless picture frame that can also pull stuff from facebook/etc. Is there an ease of use advantage?
Just saying its "social" is played out and only works in the valley. Everybody is doing that these days. Hardware is normally a different game than software and is played by different rules. The marketing is totally different as well. That's awesome that you guys have been able to put a solid piece of hardware together. Don't let all that work, and all that future work, go to waste by falling into a web 2.0 trap. :)
Just saying its "social" is played out and only works in the valley. Everybody is doing that these days. Hardware is normally a different game than software and is played by different rules. The marketing is totally different as well. That's awesome that you guys have been able to put a solid piece of hardware together. Don't let all that work, and all that future work, go to waste by falling into a web 2.0 trap. :)
Once they get their hardware prices down I think these guys will be rocking. My Mom would love me for a million years if I got her one of these.
I could get one for my mom too, then take pictures and have them show up there so she will bug me about my life less often ;)
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If that's all you want to do, you can just use any MRSS-capable frame with OurDoings.
http://ourdoings.com/2008-03-01
It sounds like PicWing has a lot more ambitious things in mind.
http://ourdoings.com/2008-03-01
It sounds like PicWing has a lot more ambitious things in mind.
Cool! I worked on these a while ago, but then we moved back to Italy...
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/336/C2154/
It was pretty cool - the guy running it scored a deal on a bunch of old HP laptops that he took apart and reassembled into frames.
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/336/C2154/
It was pretty cool - the guy running it scored a deal on a bunch of old HP laptops that he took apart and reassembled into frames.
These should really have a webcam and mic, too -- albeit with a physical shutter/switch for total confidence in its on/off status.
Then it'd be the ultimate for keeping-in-touch-with-distant-relatives.
Then it'd be the ultimate for keeping-in-touch-with-distant-relatives.
Thats exactly the long-term direction that we want Picwing to go. Pictures are really just the beginning for us: We would love to enable applications like email, video conferencing, and more that your Grandma would be able to use in a really non-intimidating way.
Interesting. It looks like you're going after "2. Simplified Browsing" (but not just browsing) as well as "27. Hardware/software hybrids" plus at least one of the 30 different subtypes of "9. Photo/video sharing services"
http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html
http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html
number 27 definitely matched what we are doing. The beauty of hardware these days is that its not as scary as most software people thing. Hardware these days really just means low-level software.
Six words: Automatically updated photos of their grandkids
Picwing's potential target market: Grandparents. Go after it!
My brother-in-law and myself did this (for my parents) with the then best-of-class Digital Spectrum MemoryFrame. Once we saw that a Wi-fi picture frame supported RSS feeds we were hooked - despite the high cost and painful configuration (RSS + picture frame). I am hopeful that Picwing will make the picture frame grandparent friendly and not try to extort annual subscription fees.
Picwing's potential target market: Grandparents. Go after it!
My brother-in-law and myself did this (for my parents) with the then best-of-class Digital Spectrum MemoryFrame. Once we saw that a Wi-fi picture frame supported RSS feeds we were hooked - despite the high cost and painful configuration (RSS + picture frame). I am hopeful that Picwing will make the picture frame grandparent friendly and not try to extort annual subscription fees.
Wallflower,
Grandparents or even parents are exactly who we had in mind when we built this!
Grandparents or even parents are exactly who we had in mind when we built this!
If there is any way you could do this with a dialup connection, then you have yourself a real golden opportunity... especially if there was no monthly fee for 5 pics/month or something. I would buy one right now if it did this.
My recently widowed grandmother doesn't have a computer, let alone a wi-fi connection...
My recently widowed grandmother doesn't have a computer, let alone a wi-fi connection...
We realize that there is sort of a disconnect between the people who buy this thing, and the people who this is intended for (i.e. grandma with no wifi).
We're exploring possible avenues for this, including having low cost GSM connectivity so you can send upto a certain number of pictures w/o a fee
We're exploring possible avenues for this, including having low cost GSM connectivity so you can send upto a certain number of pictures w/o a fee
I wouldn't worry too much about the subset of people who presumably have broadband (since they know what flickr/facebook, etc are in the first place) but not wifi. You could just sell a cheap router with it in a bundle for that.
Grandma's have wifi these days too.
Grandma's have wifi these days too.
My grandma doesn't have a dialup ISP, a broadband connection, or even a computer, and I suspect that many folks are in that boat.
Maybe something like this would be cool: http://www.usbackbone.net/wholesale_dial.htm
and then you'd have to add the modem hardware to the frame... or maybe just sell a slightly more expensive model with an internal modem.
Maybe something like this would be cool: http://www.usbackbone.net/wholesale_dial.htm
and then you'd have to add the modem hardware to the frame... or maybe just sell a slightly more expensive model with an internal modem.
Grandmas have wifi? You are out of touch with ordinary people.
I know lots of senior citizens who have broadband and/or wifi. I guess not any who have grandkids my age, but lots of people who have children my age who have children themselves.
That's the problem, isn't it. You know lots of people, so you have made the assumption that it's all that way. Well, I know lots of people who are my parents age who not only don't have the internet, but are only peripherally aware that it exists, and really have no interest in going on it.
Just because you know lots of people who are a certain way does not mean it's that way. Remember, you are living in a world that is filtered - to a certain demographic, to a certain income level, to a certain intelligence level, to a certain ambition level and so on. There are huge other demographics that are also filtered in a certain way, and for them, the total opposite is true.
For example, imagine an average high school dropout / labourer. His friends are unlikely to be college professors or other upper class, his friends are unlikely to be rich. His friends are most likely going to be similar to him. And their friends are similar to them. So you have this network of high school dropouts who are all linked to each other in one big demographic pool.
And their parents will also fit in a certain profile, etc. So, no matter what you observe, first of all realise that it's filtered. Very few can say they are intimate with all classes of society. When you are born in a certain class, you may get poor or whatever, but your friends tend to stay from roughly the same class.
It's like an article I read in a german magazine speaking about how universities are functioning as match-making institutions. The article spoke about how the path that leads to a person attending universities tends to bring people who are very similar to each other together - because each step of the way towards the university filters out people. So when they do arrive, you have a group of guys and a group of girls of similar intelligence, similar income level, similar ambition and so on. Perfect fits for each other.
Same with most of us here. We are only on this site because we fullfil some criteria. That I could be here typing this comment on this website means I have matched a set of strict criteria that have filtered out a lot of people.
So, the people you know are also people who would be friends with people who would have children that you would come in contact with. So the same filter mechanism that brought you here also acts on them.
So, your observation can only be through the lens of your class, status, upbringing, intelligence, and education.
Just because you know lots of people who are a certain way does not mean it's that way. Remember, you are living in a world that is filtered - to a certain demographic, to a certain income level, to a certain intelligence level, to a certain ambition level and so on. There are huge other demographics that are also filtered in a certain way, and for them, the total opposite is true.
For example, imagine an average high school dropout / labourer. His friends are unlikely to be college professors or other upper class, his friends are unlikely to be rich. His friends are most likely going to be similar to him. And their friends are similar to them. So you have this network of high school dropouts who are all linked to each other in one big demographic pool.
And their parents will also fit in a certain profile, etc. So, no matter what you observe, first of all realise that it's filtered. Very few can say they are intimate with all classes of society. When you are born in a certain class, you may get poor or whatever, but your friends tend to stay from roughly the same class.
It's like an article I read in a german magazine speaking about how universities are functioning as match-making institutions. The article spoke about how the path that leads to a person attending universities tends to bring people who are very similar to each other together - because each step of the way towards the university filters out people. So when they do arrive, you have a group of guys and a group of girls of similar intelligence, similar income level, similar ambition and so on. Perfect fits for each other.
Same with most of us here. We are only on this site because we fullfil some criteria. That I could be here typing this comment on this website means I have matched a set of strict criteria that have filtered out a lot of people.
So, the people you know are also people who would be friends with people who would have children that you would come in contact with. So the same filter mechanism that brought you here also acts on them.
So, your observation can only be through the lens of your class, status, upbringing, intelligence, and education.
Aren't you doing the exact same thing? How is "Grandmas have wifi? You are out of touch with ordinary people" any more rooted in fact, rather than your small sample, than my original statement?
Also my statement was "grandmas have wifi". I know two who do, which makes that statement provably true. I never said that all of them do.
More importantly, in the context of the original conversation, before we took this "my sample is more representative of the overall population than yours" detour, is that the product isn't aimed at people who don't know what the internet is. It's a digital picture frame. It's aimed at people who have digital cameras (meaning they almost certainly have a computer) and have family that have digital cameras, and want to be able to share. All products are not aimed at all people, and should not be.
While I assume they're aiming for a wider demographic than the average digital picture frame (and, I think, doing it in a good way) the point of my comment was that they shouldn't worry about aiming too wide. Worrying about making your social digital picture frame accessible to people who don't have WiFi is like making an iPod for people who don't have computers. There is no point.
Also my statement was "grandmas have wifi". I know two who do, which makes that statement provably true. I never said that all of them do.
More importantly, in the context of the original conversation, before we took this "my sample is more representative of the overall population than yours" detour, is that the product isn't aimed at people who don't know what the internet is. It's a digital picture frame. It's aimed at people who have digital cameras (meaning they almost certainly have a computer) and have family that have digital cameras, and want to be able to share. All products are not aimed at all people, and should not be.
While I assume they're aiming for a wider demographic than the average digital picture frame (and, I think, doing it in a good way) the point of my comment was that they shouldn't worry about aiming too wide. Worrying about making your social digital picture frame accessible to people who don't have WiFi is like making an iPod for people who don't have computers. There is no point.
I still think you're wrong. A digital camera is owned by practically everyone now for the simple reason that it's very difficult and expensive to buy a non-digital camera.
But WiFi is really a very optional thing for now.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I strongly believe in focusing a consumer as tightly as possible in the beginning, and since he is dealing with a tech crowd here, he can make wifi a requirement.
But all the same, I don't think WiFi is as spread as you think. Imagine an iPod where one can transfer the music only by WiFi. Or an iPhone. That's a bad idea, is it not?
I'm not saying my sample is more accurate than your, but I am saying I have observed the opposite effect. There is probably some middle ground, the question is where the real statistic lies. And if one is willing to bet a business on that.
I really dislike assumptions. I like to treat facts as assumptions that have not been disproven yet, and that's why I argue this point - don't take it personally!
But WiFi is really a very optional thing for now.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I strongly believe in focusing a consumer as tightly as possible in the beginning, and since he is dealing with a tech crowd here, he can make wifi a requirement.
But all the same, I don't think WiFi is as spread as you think. Imagine an iPod where one can transfer the music only by WiFi. Or an iPhone. That's a bad idea, is it not?
I'm not saying my sample is more accurate than your, but I am saying I have observed the opposite effect. There is probably some middle ground, the question is where the real statistic lies. And if one is willing to bet a business on that.
I really dislike assumptions. I like to treat facts as assumptions that have not been disproven yet, and that's why I argue this point - don't take it personally!
Not only are film-based cameras not expensive or hard to find, they actually outsell digital ones in the form of disposables. I read somewhere not too long ago that they outsell non-disposable cameras by over 25%. (I'm assuming those sales figures meant discrete cameras, rather than including cell-phones. I'll try to find it to check.) Interesting anecdote: my wife and I bought 25 of them for our wedding, and it seems unlikely we will buy 25 digital cameras combined in our lifetimes.
A lot of the reason for their popularity is cost. Disposables are dirt cheap. There's little upfront investment. Most people who can't afford a computer (and therefore would probably not spend $200+ on a picture frame) like that.
So right away, I'd just not worry about lower class families. You aim gadgets at middle class +. I guess my argument is that I don't see much market for a $200+ digital frame amongst people who don't have broadband. There are probably a number of people who have broadband but not wifi who might like the product, hence my suggestion to offer a bundle with a cheap, preconfigured router. (Supposedly only around 40% of broadband homes have WiFi).
I know what you mean about assumptions, but startups are all about making them, building toward them, then narrowing down as you collect feedback from customers. There's simply no way to collect the relevant facts, you have to start from assumptions. They could maybe do some market research, which is slow and expensive, and at least narrow down the assumptions. Or they can just aim their product at the people who can afford it and are likely to want it, and work from there.
So if I were them, I'd focus on building a kick ass wireless frame. Most people who have digital cameras and have experienced sharing them online will probably get it.
A lot of the reason for their popularity is cost. Disposables are dirt cheap. There's little upfront investment. Most people who can't afford a computer (and therefore would probably not spend $200+ on a picture frame) like that.
So right away, I'd just not worry about lower class families. You aim gadgets at middle class +. I guess my argument is that I don't see much market for a $200+ digital frame amongst people who don't have broadband. There are probably a number of people who have broadband but not wifi who might like the product, hence my suggestion to offer a bundle with a cheap, preconfigured router. (Supposedly only around 40% of broadband homes have WiFi).
I know what you mean about assumptions, but startups are all about making them, building toward them, then narrowing down as you collect feedback from customers. There's simply no way to collect the relevant facts, you have to start from assumptions. They could maybe do some market research, which is slow and expensive, and at least narrow down the assumptions. Or they can just aim their product at the people who can afford it and are likely to want it, and work from there.
So if I were them, I'd focus on building a kick ass wireless frame. Most people who have digital cameras and have experienced sharing them online will probably get it.
Alright, we meet in the middle then. On another note, you know one factor that will make a break their company? It's the color of the actual frame. I would never ever buy one of those fake wood made of plastic frames, because they look hella corny. They really need to work on the finish of the frame to make sure it looks really good.
You should talk to Amazon-- they cut a similar deal for Kindle.
yeah, if you have memory inside the frame, then you only need to download pictures once and cache, so gsm sounds like a great idea.
if you get grandparents and family involved, then it could be a great driver for photo taking, maybe kodak would be interested.
if you get grandparents and family involved, then it could be a great driver for photo taking, maybe kodak would be interested.
Edward, apologies for assuming you weren't going after the baby boomers. My parents have wi-fi but one of the painful things was configuring the frame. Aside from configuring how the frame connects to the Internet, I would love to have a frame that was completely configurable via the website, from the power-saving options (sleep times) to the daily widgets (my mom loves the word of the day type things).
Congrats guys! Great idea. Looking forward to getting one for the fam for the holidays!
Wow! I really like that idea. Now what would be great is if I could hook it up to my Facebook account so that as my friends are adding pictures on Facebook, they show up on my Picwing frame sitting at home automatically.
This is a really cool idea too, and it's def on our feature list. We would also keep in mind that all your pictures on facebook are not necessarily the pictures you want on your grandmas photo frame =)
It's sort of funny seeing this, after CO2Stats.
Surely electronic picture frames are sort of bad in terms of using energy needlessly? Is there technology yet that only uses power when the display changes, and not all the time?
Surely electronic picture frames are sort of bad in terms of using energy needlessly? Is there technology yet that only uses power when the display changes, and not all the time?
My wireless digital frame (reviewed at the link below) draws only 9 watts:
http://ourdoings.com/2008-03-01
http://ourdoings.com/2008-03-01
"Electronic paper" is designed this way.
In production and cheap yet?
It's the stuff that is used in the Kindle and Sony Reader displays (also in that upcoming Esquire magazine cover http://www.hackaday.com/2008/07/30/esquires-hackable-e-paper... ). I know the refresh rates are still very "1st generation", but have no idea about how far along color displays are though.
Cool stuff!
I wonder how many times Paul Graham saw this idea mentioned in applications before picking the right team to implement it?
Overall exciting to see these devices slowly becoming popular (Chumby). There is a ton of innovation to occur here.
I wonder how many times Paul Graham saw this idea mentioned in applications before picking the right team to implement it?
Overall exciting to see these devices slowly becoming popular (Chumby). There is a ton of innovation to occur here.
That's probably a compliment to the picwing guys :) An idea that seems obvious in retrospect is probably a good idea. But I'm betting it wasn't obvious to a lot of people before the TC article. If you said, four months ago, that you wanted to "view your photostream across any medium", you'd get plenty of blank stares :)
Yeah it was a 2ndary idea we mentioned in sept 2007 application. Like do you have any other ideas we may find of interest.
Though we were not looking at it from a hardware standpoint, but social photo software.
Either way its great to see these devices start catching on and congrats to these guys!
Though we were not looking at it from a hardware standpoint, but social photo software.
Either way its great to see these devices start catching on and congrats to these guys!
When is Mother's Day again? One less holiday present I have to worry about.
[deleted]
http://www.picwing.com/about
Just like jobsyndicate and startuply, nice copy. Perhaps PG looks for hackers, who are also writers :)
Just like jobsyndicate and startuply, nice copy. Perhaps PG looks for hackers, who are also writers :)
Dude holy crap! I was totally thinking of this! I'm definitely going to get a few!
Why do digital picture frames always have such broad borders? I'd really like one that is more elegant, that is, with less wasted "screen estate".
But never mind, I won't buy one anyway - I am waiting for digital ink to catch up...
But never mind, I won't buy one anyway - I am waiting for digital ink to catch up...
When I see something like this, my first thought is, "I wonder how easily this could be hacked so I could display whatever picture I wanted on random people's photo frames?"
this one is awesome. I'd get one for my mom when it gets cheaper. =)
Have you guys thought of sync-ing them with flickr and facebook pictures? Or you guys are already working on it?
Have you guys thought of sync-ing them with flickr and facebook pictures? Or you guys are already working on it?
Pricey but I bought one. Mom's birthday is right around the corner and I love supporting a small and new startup.
[deleted]
Judging from the number of orders we've been getting, it seems like people have been waiting for something like this for a while. While there are other wireless digital photo frame products out there, we really feel that we've been the first company to tackle it from the software perspective.
Thanks again!