EU countries approve 2035 phaseout of CO2-emitting cars(reuters.com)
reuters.com
EU countries approve 2035 phaseout of CO2-emitting cars
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-countries-poised-approve-2035-phaseout-co2-emitting-cars-2023-03-28/
371 comments
> EU countries approve 2035 phaseout of CO2-emitting cars
That's quite a misleading headline from Reuters - they're not phasing out C02 emitting cars, they're banning sale of new CO2 emitting cars. Existing CO2 cars will continue to be legal, although probably become much more expensive to run than electric cars, and of course could be outlawed by further legislation.
That's quite a misleading headline from Reuters - they're not phasing out C02 emitting cars, they're banning sale of new CO2 emitting cars. Existing CO2 cars will continue to be legal, although probably become much more expensive to run than electric cars, and of course could be outlawed by further legislation.
> The European Commission has pledged, however, to create a legal route for sales of new cars that only run on e-fuels to continue after 2035, after Germany demanded this exemption from the ban.
Sigh!
Sigh!
I my EU country (Slovakia) 40% of people live in flats. In my suburb lives 25000 (95% in flats) and there is 1 charging station for 3 cars on the entire suburb. There is 0 chance to meet the goal by 2035.
In 2035, if a pro-russian party SMER promise withdrawal from EU and allows gas cars again they will have landslide victory and can start importing cheap Russian gas.
In 2035, if a pro-russian party SMER promise withdrawal from EU and allows gas cars again they will have landslide victory and can start importing cheap Russian gas.
Meanwhile government employees here have to drive their private cars during the winter because the electric cars supplied by the employer can't handle the cold. I'm curious how planned the date is with respect to the consequences. This will shake everything from mechanics to handling crisis such as weather catastrophes or war as in Ukraine. Will we have enough batteries? Will we become dependent on China? Will the average Joe afford a car or will it become a privilege for rich people? Where will we get the power from when we barely can supply existing infrastructure and companies are denied permission to expand? Will we have hundreds of thousands of charging stations on the streets? Lots of questions I'd love to see the answers to.
> Poland had called the law unrealistic and said it risked increasing car prices.
12 years is enough time to heavily invest in public transport so that most people won't need a car at all, then increased car prices won't matter....
12 years is enough time to heavily invest in public transport so that most people won't need a car at all, then increased car prices won't matter....
I switched to off-grid solar last year, and one thing that became instantly clear is that I'll never have enough panels for an electric car, crikey, even running the oven can be a challenge.
I really wonder how Europe is gonna manage the extra grid demand given decades of under investment in energy production. More cables to countries still investing in nuclear?
I really wonder how Europe is gonna manage the extra grid demand given decades of under investment in energy production. More cables to countries still investing in nuclear?
I like the compromise.
Plug-in hybrids with reasonable range (let's say 40 miles) achieve 99% emissions reductions. But don't have to lug around 1000 pounds of battery.
Allowing for plug-in hybrids outright would have been a good idea. Allowing only e-fuels is a second best.
Plug-in hybrids with reasonable range (let's say 40 miles) achieve 99% emissions reductions. But don't have to lug around 1000 pounds of battery.
Allowing for plug-in hybrids outright would have been a good idea. Allowing only e-fuels is a second best.
I got down-voted heavily on reddit for this idea, but I still think it's genius: Everybody gets a card with their yearly CO2 budget stored on it. For filling up your car at a gas station, but also for consuming electricity, taking a plane or buying stuff (except low CO2 food) a corresponding amount will be withdrawn from your card.
The card is credited weekly, so you can't overspend too much of it. Your saved credits will decline slowly over time. Of course all has to be balanced considering socio-economic factors.
The great thing is you can sell your credits to rich people, so it would even reward you for staying at home giving you sort of a minimal income.
The card is credited weekly, so you can't overspend too much of it. Your saved credits will decline slowly over time. Of course all has to be balanced considering socio-economic factors.
The great thing is you can sell your credits to rich people, so it would even reward you for staying at home giving you sort of a minimal income.
I may be wrong, but 2035 is very near and the phaseout seems (to me) like very difficult to achieve.
The only zero emissions are EV's and - besides Norway - they represent today only a very small percentage of vehicles, there are of course no problems (besides possibly the scarcity of some materials) in increasing the production of EV's, but the issue (as I see it) will come when plenty of vehicles on the road will be all electric, the need to adapt the current electric grid and adding the needed recharge points (be them private or public) seems like not having been taken into consideration or plans for it are way too optimistic.
Poland calling it unrealistic seems appropriate.
There are, besides the risk of having too expensive new cars, a lot of other possible downsides, influencing the market of used cars, and creating a "recharging divide" among different countries but also among different cities/locations in a same country.
The only zero emissions are EV's and - besides Norway - they represent today only a very small percentage of vehicles, there are of course no problems (besides possibly the scarcity of some materials) in increasing the production of EV's, but the issue (as I see it) will come when plenty of vehicles on the road will be all electric, the need to adapt the current electric grid and adding the needed recharge points (be them private or public) seems like not having been taken into consideration or plans for it are way too optimistic.
Poland calling it unrealistic seems appropriate.
There are, besides the risk of having too expensive new cars, a lot of other possible downsides, influencing the market of used cars, and creating a "recharging divide" among different countries but also among different cities/locations in a same country.
I guarantee that a significant percentage of the new cars sold in the EU in 2036 will still emit CO2. Reducing CO2 emissions is absolutely something we should do, but the 2035 deadline is totally arbitrary and disconnected from objective reality in terms of manufacturing capacity and charging infrastructure. I predict that as the deadline approaches many exceptions will be granted for plug-in hybrid vehicles and rural areas with limited infrastructure.
"The European Commission has pledged, however, to create a legal route for sales of new cars that only run on e-fuels to continue after 2035, after Germany demanded this exemption from the ban."
How would someone build an engine that explicitly only run on ethanol and which would reject any mixture which contains gasoline, such as E85.
How would someone build an engine that explicitly only run on ethanol and which would reject any mixture which contains gasoline, such as E85.
Unsurprising to see Germany creating escape hatches for itself with “e-fuels”.
Unless I can get 700+ km out of a (fully charged) EV I'm not getting rid of my cumbustion car. I mean I am okay with a small compromise (currently I can get up to 900km from a single tank), but having to charge 2 or 3 times (especially in winter), each 2+ hours, for a longer cross-country holiday is a no-go for me.
I hope they will keep exceptions for e-fuels, or cars used by companies. EVs are just too inconvenient (unless you live and work in a big city and own a house)
I hope they will keep exceptions for e-fuels, or cars used by companies. EVs are just too inconvenient (unless you live and work in a big city and own a house)
Interesting. Will this be replicated in Africa, Asia, LATAM or even the US? The EU as a whole is wealthy enough to test this premise (full electric) and let the rest of the world know the results of this.
I'm wondering what would citizens from each EU country say about this?
I'm wondering what would citizens from each EU country say about this?
Electric cars are still far too small for taller than average families to drive. Until there's a viable SUV alternative for 4 6ft+ adults to fit comfortably I don't think electric will take off in the US.
The charging issue and grid use is a massively overblown problem. You only need to charge your car for a few hours every 300 miles. Nowhere near everyone is always charging all the time.
Renewables and stored heat batteries will cover night/low wind loads. Geothermal in the north.
Public transit options will continue to improve, electrified bikes make them an even more viable alternative.
We’re a clever group of people. The oil drilling to gas available on every fourth corner in the country system is vastly more complex than installing chargers on light poles.
Renewables and stored heat batteries will cover night/low wind loads. Geothermal in the north.
Public transit options will continue to improve, electrified bikes make them an even more viable alternative.
We’re a clever group of people. The oil drilling to gas available on every fourth corner in the country system is vastly more complex than installing chargers on light poles.
Technically any car with passengers emits CO2.
I don't know...
on one hand I welcome a more quiet street and without the gas smell.
on the other hand I can't tell if it's really better for our habitat and actually less CO2 producing, because you need to produce those batteries and you have to "load" them, transport them, and what is more efficient than direct conversion vs remotely generated power that needs to be transported to a vehicle. I think it's mostly a lie, a feel good lie that don't help anyone except those wanting to wrestle power from established companies. A paranoid guy might even say it's a plot to destroy Germany's car industry.
on one hand I welcome a more quiet street and without the gas smell.
on the other hand I can't tell if it's really better for our habitat and actually less CO2 producing, because you need to produce those batteries and you have to "load" them, transport them, and what is more efficient than direct conversion vs remotely generated power that needs to be transported to a vehicle. I think it's mostly a lie, a feel good lie that don't help anyone except those wanting to wrestle power from established companies. A paranoid guy might even say it's a plot to destroy Germany's car industry.
You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy! <- welcome to the new world. All cheap Dacias (cheap European car brand) will be gone. So the mobility for lower income people. With automotive industry gone European de-industrialization will be already far far ahead. And afterwards Europe will loose all the significance in the world.
This is utterly nonesense.
Do you produce electricity without CO2 emissions? And what about those batteries?!
Last week, the battery for my cordless vaccum cleaner went flat. And to my surprise it costs half the price of the vaccum cleaner. But a bigger surprise was that they stopped making it ... even in China!
So I need to actually "buy" a new vaccum cleaner. But this time I learnt the lesson, and I like cords now !
Back to the point on electric cars, electricity pollutes, battery production (mining the materials) and lifespan (throwing old batteries) pollutes the environment. So I don't see any point in that ...
Last week, the battery for my cordless vaccum cleaner went flat. And to my surprise it costs half the price of the vaccum cleaner. But a bigger surprise was that they stopped making it ... even in China!
So I need to actually "buy" a new vaccum cleaner. But this time I learnt the lesson, and I like cords now !
Back to the point on electric cars, electricity pollutes, battery production (mining the materials) and lifespan (throwing old batteries) pollutes the environment. So I don't see any point in that ...
I say this because most Americans have the impression that the US on the cutting edge with technology, but in terms of electric cars, the US is really far behind.