Did you buy that latte 2 hours ago? Think about leaving the coffee shop(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
Did you buy that latte 2 hours ago? Think about leaving the coffee shop
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/you-ordered-that-latte-two-hours-ago-think-about-leaving-the-coffee-shop/2015/07/08/caa597bc-19ef-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html
82 comments
The remaining malls in the U.S. are living on borrowed time.
In general, there's no/fewer public drinking fountains, fewer public restrooms, shrinking number of places that doesn't involve soup-Nazi consumerism and ever less spaces for homeless and the elderly to not be bothered. It's a not-so-subtle form of hate directed at anyone unable or unwilling to be extorted on a regular basis. Folks are going to get their power and heat/air-conditioning somehow, but there's big trouble in store for any shop owner that retaliates against customers... because they will inevitably find ways to ruin the business. Starbucks is immensely profitable and doesn't have to resort to passive-aggressive hate and discrimination games.
In general, there's no/fewer public drinking fountains, fewer public restrooms, shrinking number of places that doesn't involve soup-Nazi consumerism and ever less spaces for homeless and the elderly to not be bothered. It's a not-so-subtle form of hate directed at anyone unable or unwilling to be extorted on a regular basis. Folks are going to get their power and heat/air-conditioning somehow, but there's big trouble in store for any shop owner that retaliates against customers... because they will inevitably find ways to ruin the business. Starbucks is immensely profitable and doesn't have to resort to passive-aggressive hate and discrimination games.
Interesting article on why the idea that malls are dying may be more a media concept than reality:
http://www.citylab.com/design/2015/03/shopping-malls-arent-a...
"The dead or dying mall is a real phenomenon. But all you have to do is invert these figures to get the bigger picture, which looks very different. If 20 percent of malls are in trouble, then 80 percent are still healthy. If 3.4 percent of malls are dying, then 96.6 percent of them aren't. (When the New York Times ran an otherwise nuanced front-page story on struggling malls in January, the accompanying graphic had a top line of 20 percent, wrongly suggesting that a rash of dead malls was a pandemic.)"
http://www.citylab.com/design/2015/03/shopping-malls-arent-a...
"The dead or dying mall is a real phenomenon. But all you have to do is invert these figures to get the bigger picture, which looks very different. If 20 percent of malls are in trouble, then 80 percent are still healthy. If 3.4 percent of malls are dying, then 96.6 percent of them aren't. (When the New York Times ran an otherwise nuanced front-page story on struggling malls in January, the accompanying graphic had a top line of 20 percent, wrongly suggesting that a rash of dead malls was a pandemic.)"
Shopping districts are common in Asia; at least I've seen them in Japan and the Middle East
I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of people here do this. I do this as well. Most of the time, I'm not asked to leave, but other times, if I feel guilty, I buy something else, like another coffee or a sweet. I suppose I'd willing to "rent" space if it were available.
A funny relevant anecdote. Yesterday, I was at home trying to work, and I could not focus, so I walked to a nearby coffeeshop. Apparently, a group was filming something in half of the shop, so another section with most of the seats was closed off, as well as outside seating in front of it. Naturally, the remaining seats were full.
So, I randomly asked a person if I could share a seat with her. I didn't make small talk, I just sat and read. After twenty minutes or so, she got up to leave. After a while of reading, I saw a number of people come in and be told they might have to take to-go since the place was full. I was more than willing to share a seat at my table, and a number of other tables had open seats, but no one approached me, or anyone else for that matter...
So, I got up, and purchased a slice of cake to-go. A gentleman who was waiting for a chair thanked me and took my place.
Now, on the way home, there is a chocolate shop which has a couple of seats as well. I decided to peer inside, and guess who I see in the window? The lady who's table I took, apparently. :/
I guess I can't fault other people for not being as comfortable about sharing "personal space" as I am, but especially in that sort of situation, it hurts more than it helps.
A funny relevant anecdote. Yesterday, I was at home trying to work, and I could not focus, so I walked to a nearby coffeeshop. Apparently, a group was filming something in half of the shop, so another section with most of the seats was closed off, as well as outside seating in front of it. Naturally, the remaining seats were full.
So, I randomly asked a person if I could share a seat with her. I didn't make small talk, I just sat and read. After twenty minutes or so, she got up to leave. After a while of reading, I saw a number of people come in and be told they might have to take to-go since the place was full. I was more than willing to share a seat at my table, and a number of other tables had open seats, but no one approached me, or anyone else for that matter...
So, I got up, and purchased a slice of cake to-go. A gentleman who was waiting for a chair thanked me and took my place.
Now, on the way home, there is a chocolate shop which has a couple of seats as well. I decided to peer inside, and guess who I see in the window? The lady who's table I took, apparently. :/
I guess I can't fault other people for not being as comfortable about sharing "personal space" as I am, but especially in that sort of situation, it hurts more than it helps.
I've seen this as well. Some people get really weirded out when you sit down and share a table with them when it gets busy. There's a table there that seats six, and you're just two people sitting at it. It's not YOUR exclusive table. You don't own it. If you really want to have a private conversation without anyone around, don't go to a busy coffee shop.
Near where I live there is a bakery/cafe/bar hybrid that has all tables being 3 tables for 2 people joined side by side.
When it is full, frequently it happens that if there is two people on one set of 6, the other 4 places are empty (does not matter where the two people are).
Except when the staff bother separating the tables by a inch or two, then all tables get used, it is a really curious effect.
When it is full, frequently it happens that if there is two people on one set of 6, the other 4 places are empty (does not matter where the two people are).
Except when the staff bother separating the tables by a inch or two, then all tables get used, it is a really curious effect.
Amusingly, in such a situation, I explicitly separate or join the tables myself to fit my party size.
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Loved the photo's caption of the "laptop brigade", lol.
If there's a point where a significant portion of a community become knowledge workers, then it would be advantageous for local coffee shops to adapt to a co-working atmosphere. It wouldn't surprise me if a chain such as Starbucks did something like this in the future.
When I was working remotely and in-between jobs, I regularly squatted and rotated through coffee shops in town. What sucked about this though was several things: buying food/coffee out of guilt because it seemed like the right thing to do, constantly packing-up and unpacking your gear when going to the restroom, holding your bladder in as long as possible because it's an annoying and expensive context-switch to tend to one's biological functions, and uncomfortable seating which isn't meant for prolonged use.
Coffee shops in college towns will mostly be immune to this because it's simply how students live and work. Au Coquelet and People's Coffee in Berkeley come to mind. Talk about laptop brigades! The Berkeley Public Library wasn't so bad either, and they had free Wifi.
Nowadays, co-working spaces seem to be popping up everywhere now. Even where I'm at now in Lancaster, PA, which isn't exactly a tech hotbed, there are already 3 co-working spaces. I'm at the point now where coffee shop squatting is just too much of a hassle and would rather pay to have a quiet working environment that forces productivity, provides a solid Internet connection, offers decent amenities, and offers controlled access so I don't have to worry about getting my laptop stolen when stepping away from the desk.
If there's a point where a significant portion of a community become knowledge workers, then it would be advantageous for local coffee shops to adapt to a co-working atmosphere. It wouldn't surprise me if a chain such as Starbucks did something like this in the future.
When I was working remotely and in-between jobs, I regularly squatted and rotated through coffee shops in town. What sucked about this though was several things: buying food/coffee out of guilt because it seemed like the right thing to do, constantly packing-up and unpacking your gear when going to the restroom, holding your bladder in as long as possible because it's an annoying and expensive context-switch to tend to one's biological functions, and uncomfortable seating which isn't meant for prolonged use.
Coffee shops in college towns will mostly be immune to this because it's simply how students live and work. Au Coquelet and People's Coffee in Berkeley come to mind. Talk about laptop brigades! The Berkeley Public Library wasn't so bad either, and they had free Wifi.
Nowadays, co-working spaces seem to be popping up everywhere now. Even where I'm at now in Lancaster, PA, which isn't exactly a tech hotbed, there are already 3 co-working spaces. I'm at the point now where coffee shop squatting is just too much of a hassle and would rather pay to have a quiet working environment that forces productivity, provides a solid Internet connection, offers decent amenities, and offers controlled access so I don't have to worry about getting my laptop stolen when stepping away from the desk.
> I'm at the point now where coffee shop squatting is just too much of a hassle and would rather pay to have a quiet working environment
Pardon my ignorance, but why isn't "working from home" an option? I WFH myself (current $job is 100% remote) and I bounce between my super comfy couch and a standing desk all day. Bonus, I get to make my own coffee, eat whatever/whenever I want, and I never have to worry about the social stigma of 'squatting' some coffeeshop-owner's turf. :-)
Pardon my ignorance, but why isn't "working from home" an option? I WFH myself (current $job is 100% remote) and I bounce between my super comfy couch and a standing desk all day. Bonus, I get to make my own coffee, eat whatever/whenever I want, and I never have to worry about the social stigma of 'squatting' some coffeeshop-owner's turf. :-)
Spoken like a single guy?
Send the wife to work. Send the kids to daycare.
Wife gets to socialize, kids get to learn and interact with other kids. You get a peaceful space to work. Everyone profits =)
That's my experience anyways, I have a wife and 2 year old and have been working from home for about 8 years.
Wife gets to socialize, kids get to learn and interact with other kids. You get a peaceful space to work. Everyone profits =)
That's my experience anyways, I have a wife and 2 year old and have been working from home for about 8 years.
Nope, my long-term, live-in girlfriend and I are about to celebrate our 5th anniversary. No kids though. That said, one of my (also works-from-home) coworkers just had his third kid; he has a similar philosophy and just maintains a home office.
Fair enough. I have a home office; used it for years, even with 3 youngsters. Closed the door, they (mostly) stayed out. It works good enough!
> I'm at the point now where coffee shop squatting is just too much of a hassle and would rather pay to have a quiet working environment
What is pricing like?
What is pricing like?
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Please stay in my coffee shop.
Although that person is using your internet with a $4 coffee, they're occupying space after everybody "is gone"(9am-11am and 1pm-4pm), contributing with their physical presence.
A newcomer, that may end up becoming a long-term customer, would feel more biased towards places with more customers( or the idea of).
So, although it might seem financially reasonable to kick them out, I doubt it's the best answer.
Although that person is using your internet with a $4 coffee, they're occupying space after everybody "is gone"(9am-11am and 1pm-4pm), contributing with their physical presence.
A newcomer, that may end up becoming a long-term customer, would feel more biased towards places with more customers( or the idea of).
So, although it might seem financially reasonable to kick them out, I doubt it's the best answer.
We do hackathons at a local craft coffee/beer cafe. I usually turn up with between 4 to 12 engineers and they all get coffee, beer, food on an expensed credit card. The guy that manages the place told me we could reserve tables like conference rooms if we wanted. Pretty cool.
There was a coffee shop I used to frequent that used a captive portal for wifi, and the only way to get past it was to enter a 90 minute passcode from the bottom of your purchase receipt.
So if I came in there at night after work I considered it basically paying for internet, and getting a free coffee or pastry alongside it. Seemed perfectly fair.
I also find it amusing that Starbucks gives you free refills on brewed/ice coffee, provided you go enough to get their "gold" status (usually, 30 store visits a year).
They don't care if you camp there and keep getting free refills on coffee. They just care that you do it often.
So if I came in there at night after work I considered it basically paying for internet, and getting a free coffee or pastry alongside it. Seemed perfectly fair.
I also find it amusing that Starbucks gives you free refills on brewed/ice coffee, provided you go enough to get their "gold" status (usually, 30 store visits a year).
They don't care if you camp there and keep getting free refills on coffee. They just care that you do it often.
Btw, green status gets you the free refills (5 store visits).
Shops should have colored or labeled cups associated to the time of purchase. Would a little shaming get people moving? Everyone would know how long everyone else has been there.
It's super-simple, people. Understand that by being that person with the laptop taking up table real estate you're consuming a resource that the proprietor uses to generate revenue. Customers who might otherwise come in, sit down and make a purchase will keep walking if there are no tables available.
Put another way - it's like that one client who paid you $50 to install a WordPress plugin 6 months ago who calls you weekly to troubleshoot their printer problems.
There's a very simple thing you can do which will keep any cafe owner happy. Every 25-30 minutes, have a glance around and check for vacant tables. If there are fewer than two tables available (or maybe one in smaller cafes) it's time to move on. The only exception being if you have just sat down, in which case, finish your food and beverage and leave.
Put another way - it's like that one client who paid you $50 to install a WordPress plugin 6 months ago who calls you weekly to troubleshoot their printer problems.
There's a very simple thing you can do which will keep any cafe owner happy. Every 25-30 minutes, have a glance around and check for vacant tables. If there are fewer than two tables available (or maybe one in smaller cafes) it's time to move on. The only exception being if you have just sat down, in which case, finish your food and beverage and leave.
I feel guilt about this all the time. I work remotely, in the UK but on US Eastern time to synch with my team. Fortunately this means I can go to cafes after the lunch rush, but make sure I buy enough food and drink to not be a freeloader, tip well, and if it's busy - move on. Working from home is what I'm going back to anyway, it's just nice to get out of the house.
It's way easier if the cafe also sells food. Me and 2 others basically built a company some years back out of a cafe in Sacramento, but we always bought lots of coffee and bought our lunch there as well. We all shared 1 table too so the space was used well, and of course talked to the owner who had no problem.
Here's a great way to discourage campers: no outlets, not even 1.
Here's a great way to discourage campers: no outlets, not even 1.
One of the cafes in the area put packing tape over all the outlets. When they did this I worked out that the coffee I drank cost over 200 times the electricity they saved-as you say they must be trying to displace people, not save money- but my MBP lasts nearly 6 hours[1] so I'm not so easily put off if the place is good :)
[1] I use Turbo Boost Switcher to stop the cpu running hot and gfxCardStatus to stick to integrated graphics. This seems to give me nearly 2h extra. I don't need speed for compiles or anything like that.
[1] I use Turbo Boost Switcher to stop the cpu running hot and gfxCardStatus to stick to integrated graphics. This seems to give me nearly 2h extra. I don't need speed for compiles or anything like that.
Hiding the outlets could act as a filter that only lets people camp out if they own a brand-new, expensive device with long battery life. That could work very well if the cafe is trying to cultivate a richer and trendier clientele.
On the other hand, it would also look similar to how Abercrombie & Fitch refuses to make clothes in large sizes, in order to prevent fat people from shopping in their stores.
On the other hand, it would also look similar to how Abercrombie & Fitch refuses to make clothes in large sizes, in order to prevent fat people from shopping in their stores.
Yep, brand new food court here in Canberra, Australia has no outlets. The outlets in the older food court have been hidden but can be found if you know where to look.
I have never worked outside of my own private space. I just feel uneasy, unsure and anxious that I am doing someone wrong by doing so.
If someone has covered up or hidden the outlets, to me that's a very clear sign that they don't want me there (atleast for that reason), and as such I would feel really guilty for using them. I suppose that's slightly different in a food court though, it's a bit more public than a coffee shop.
If someone has covered up or hidden the outlets, to me that's a very clear sign that they don't want me there (atleast for that reason), and as such I would feel really guilty for using them. I suppose that's slightly different in a food court though, it's a bit more public than a coffee shop.
This is something one would never see in Europe. In Paris it's acceptable to buy an expresso, or a glass of wine and stay for hours. On my last day in Paris I did this and got a free bowl of chips too! Talk about hospitality.
It's acceptable here, too. The coffee shop featured in the article is not "the norm." (In fact, the reason it's featured in an article at all is because it's out of the ordinary for coffee shops to kick people out.)
It's definitely not acceptable in Italy. You're actually not allowed to bring your coffee to a table if you paid the counter fare. So yeah we have good coffee under $1, but only if you drink it and GTFO.
What is this "expresso" you talk about?
Coffee made very quickly?
The real solution is the local library needs to offer coffee.
As well as good wifi, some renovations, and better decor[0].
[0] At least in my experience. I'm not sure what it is about coffeeshops. Their decor is just conducive to working, much more than the local library, at least.
[0] At least in my experience. I'm not sure what it is about coffeeshops. Their decor is just conducive to working, much more than the local library, at least.
Yes! Imagine if your local library was furnished more like an old book store; with decadent yet comfortable furniture and more soft lighting that is just slightly more yellow than the bright white they use. All the libraries I have been to (admittedly not many, these days) all look like hospitals.
All libraries should aspire to be more like Seattle Central Library. Good coffee, amazing architecture, fast wifi. Oh, and lots of books if you're into reading or whatever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Central_Library
I can't help but feel I am living in the future with such buildings existing like that. It looks like a space ship!
Sadly though many libraries, especially rural and regional ones just can't afford that.
Sadly though many libraries, especially rural and regional ones just can't afford that.
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This seems like a UX/UI failure on the part of the coffee shop if he has to intervene in the customers' experience. The coffee shops I go to do a good job of making it clear what kind of customers they want by virtue of the experience you have there. This weekend I encountered the first coffee shop I can remember visiting that lacked wifi. I looked around and saw nothing but groups of people in conversation. Other shops I'm a regular at never make it awkward for me to sit there...whether with just a cup of coffee or a steady stream of drinks. If there's an outcome you want with your space, there's probably a good way to configure it so that you meet your end goal.
>UX/UI failure on the part of the coffee shop
I know this is HN, but is it necessary to shoehorn computer references into situations where it's not needed?
I know this is HN, but is it necessary to shoehorn computer references into situations where it's not needed?
It is, apparently.
Did you read the fine article? His cafe does not offer wifi but people bring a hotspot and settle down for the day. What's he to do except talk to them politely?
He's also fine with it when the shop's not busy.
The problem is definitely not the store. The problem is that people are trained by starbucks to treat all cafes like this. His cafe, instantly to me, suggests that it's NOT okay to camp out with my laptop all day there.
The problem is definitely not the store. The problem is that people are trained by starbucks to treat all cafes like this. His cafe, instantly to me, suggests that it's NOT okay to camp out with my laptop all day there.
That's a good point. There's a coffee shop in my area where you can buy a $30/mo contract to a faster internet line, clearly catering to the remote working crowd. They also mark certain areas of the store as "no laptop areas" during certain times of the day. The clientele seems totally fine with this arrangement.
I'd pay by the hour for fast wifi + power, but the coffee would have to be free...
Edit: this part of the article stood out -
>“A croissant and a coffee to support a local business are a lot cheaper than a co-working membership.”
Yep. I wonder if it's a lack of co-working spaces or pricing to "what the market will bear".
I need a cross between a hackerspace and a co-working space.
Edit: this part of the article stood out -
>“A croissant and a coffee to support a local business are a lot cheaper than a co-working membership.”
Yep. I wonder if it's a lack of co-working spaces or pricing to "what the market will bear".
I need a cross between a hackerspace and a co-working space.
This describes the coworking space I frequent... and I can buy decent snacks as well
If you don't want people using the third space you set up as a third space, open a restaurant instead and call it that.
There were campers in retail spaces even before laptops and mobile tech existed.
They weren't as common and were harder to spot but back when I worked in an independent bookstore pre-broadband era, there was always a subset of the customer base that would use the bookstore and it's cafe as their home.
Basically, if you've ever worked in retail you know that certain subtle signals give the hint to the majority of customers of your intentions without saying a word. Changing lighting for instance is huge.
However, there will always be a certain subgroup of people that have a sort mentality, based on maybe mammal instinct, that if you mark a small amount of territory in a public space, it belongs to you to and you can therefore use it in any way you like for however long you like until someone challenges you for the territory and wins. This type of person, when armed with a laptop and cell phone, becomes a particularly obnoxious problem when they're a coffee shop nomad. Moms with strollers often fall into the same category, but it's a social minefield raising the issue in public.
Anyhow this is why coffee shop owners, no matter how hard they try, will not be able to remove a small malignant group of knowledge working nomads without a daily fight. The rest of us get the owner's hints, but the "It's My Territory" people will always find a way to give the Average Joe Laptop Worker a bad name...
They weren't as common and were harder to spot but back when I worked in an independent bookstore pre-broadband era, there was always a subset of the customer base that would use the bookstore and it's cafe as their home.
Basically, if you've ever worked in retail you know that certain subtle signals give the hint to the majority of customers of your intentions without saying a word. Changing lighting for instance is huge.
However, there will always be a certain subgroup of people that have a sort mentality, based on maybe mammal instinct, that if you mark a small amount of territory in a public space, it belongs to you to and you can therefore use it in any way you like for however long you like until someone challenges you for the territory and wins. This type of person, when armed with a laptop and cell phone, becomes a particularly obnoxious problem when they're a coffee shop nomad. Moms with strollers often fall into the same category, but it's a social minefield raising the issue in public.
Anyhow this is why coffee shop owners, no matter how hard they try, will not be able to remove a small malignant group of knowledge working nomads without a daily fight. The rest of us get the owner's hints, but the "It's My Territory" people will always find a way to give the Average Joe Laptop Worker a bad name...
My general approach is to buy a coffee or snack every once in a while, and more frequently when I notice that I'm occupying 'valuable' space. This might be the case even when there are plenty of empty seats, but they share a table with occupied seats.
At lunch or dinner time, when it gets busy, I usually leave so the cafe doesn't lose on customers ordering something substantial, or I order something bigger myself.
When I frequent the same place often I also try to make sure to get to know the staff, and help them out a bit by at the very least bringing my dirty stuff to the counter if I'm one of the few customers there. They seem to really like the occasional chat when it's quiet, and it has all kinds of perks (including just the interpersonal quality).
I don't really understand why so many people don't employ a similar approach. I mean, it's not that it surprises me: here in the West at least people seem to really relish the 'consumer/employee' approach where somehow a 'transaction' replaces any human connection.
But I still don't understand it, as part of the fun of being outside of the house, and life in general, is interacting with other humans, rather than roles (cashiers, waiters, etc.). I often go to the slightly pricier Turkish supermarket in my neighbourhood instead of the supermarket precisely because I get to have a nice chat with a guy I sort of know, and observe a slice of life in this colorful immigrant/poor neighbourhood.
At lunch or dinner time, when it gets busy, I usually leave so the cafe doesn't lose on customers ordering something substantial, or I order something bigger myself.
When I frequent the same place often I also try to make sure to get to know the staff, and help them out a bit by at the very least bringing my dirty stuff to the counter if I'm one of the few customers there. They seem to really like the occasional chat when it's quiet, and it has all kinds of perks (including just the interpersonal quality).
I don't really understand why so many people don't employ a similar approach. I mean, it's not that it surprises me: here in the West at least people seem to really relish the 'consumer/employee' approach where somehow a 'transaction' replaces any human connection.
But I still don't understand it, as part of the fun of being outside of the house, and life in general, is interacting with other humans, rather than roles (cashiers, waiters, etc.). I often go to the slightly pricier Turkish supermarket in my neighbourhood instead of the supermarket precisely because I get to have a nice chat with a guy I sort of know, and observe a slice of life in this colorful immigrant/poor neighbourhood.
I would be a happy customer if coffee shops sold their most popular product directly: time @ the coffee shop. I guess the businesses would be happier too.
One should figure out a more efficient way of handling short term leases than that coffee mug that proxies as something that is almost but not quite totally unlike a lease agreement.
Take my credit card and charge me on how much time I have been there, hand out blinking timers...whatever works.
One should figure out a more efficient way of handling short term leases than that coffee mug that proxies as something that is almost but not quite totally unlike a lease agreement.
Take my credit card and charge me on how much time I have been there, hand out blinking timers...whatever works.
I love working in cafes and have done it a ton. Every so often someone tries a radical variation on the basic model, but it almost always feels awkward and doesn't last long. One that I was surprised to see actually work, though, is the Workshop Cafe in SF's financial district. Their model is much what you described. It's a cross between a huge café and a big office, which ought to be terrible, but manages not to be. The coffee is good and the internet is very good. And it's often pretty busy, so I guess people are using it as intended.
Glad that it worked. As long as it is not too noisy, I really love working from cafe's.
Haha no, that's why I bought the coffee. I have a machine at home
I think the thing here is that technology in the form of headphones, portable devices, telework, etc. Allow people to share the conviviality of shared spaces but without giving back because they can isolate themselves --as they are wont to in their shared floorspaces at work.
So not interacting with someone else and just being immersed in oneself is okay because they are not aware of their surrounds except for when they glance up.
Before gadgets, you'd have to bring friends with you or meet friends (who would also buy things). But now you can buy some nominal item and excuse yourself for as long a you wish --at least in mind. And some people feel entitled to the space. The Starbucks of the world can carry that deadweight, but not so much independent shops.
So not interacting with someone else and just being immersed in oneself is okay because they are not aware of their surrounds except for when they glance up.
Before gadgets, you'd have to bring friends with you or meet friends (who would also buy things). But now you can buy some nominal item and excuse yourself for as long a you wish --at least in mind. And some people feel entitled to the space. The Starbucks of the world can carry that deadweight, but not so much independent shops.
Why not just get one of those wi-fi setups where a wi-fi password is printed on the receipt and the number of minutes/hours of wi-fi the customer receives is either a fixed amount or tied to the amount of margin you're making on a customer for that transaction.
It basically says to the customer "Want to continue working here? Buy another coffee."
This of course doesn't address those that show up with their personal hotspots, but I feel like that is still the minority of coffee shop campers.
Removing wall outlets is another deterrent. You can only keep working as long as you have juice. That said, battery life for mobile devices is getting longer, so this tactic isn't always effective.
It basically says to the customer "Want to continue working here? Buy another coffee."
This of course doesn't address those that show up with their personal hotspots, but I feel like that is still the minority of coffee shop campers.
Removing wall outlets is another deterrent. You can only keep working as long as you have juice. That said, battery life for mobile devices is getting longer, so this tactic isn't always effective.
Easy fix. Have a 30-45 minute free zone with purchase. Along with the monthly rentals noted in the article. And maybe even a poster with the nearest libraries and Christian Science reading rooms.
This is becoming a real issue for me. I've basically stopped goings to cafes and bars because the owners seem annoyed by me camping around and I can only drink so many cups of coffee a day. I would gladly pay an hourly rent if they'd be happy with that but it seems once they've decided that I'm not welcome there nothing can change their mind.
> Over the past three years, owner Cristian Velasco grew frustrated with customers who would “buy a Coke, open their laptop, and take up a large area of my couch — 10 square feet of my space — for a Coca-Cola for $1.50 for five hours.”
I have definitely been that customer.
I have definitely been that customer.
So how can you monetize the desire of people to work in comfortable semi-social private spaces?
You have deliberately made the space comfortable for long stays. Now figure out how to get the users to pay the rent!
You have deliberately made the space comfortable for long stays. Now figure out how to get the users to pay the rent!
I've definitely guilty of doing this. Usually I get so engrossed in my work I lose track of time. I have no problem with proprietors asking me to make another purchase or leave.
Why not use a library?
Libraries in many places have been devastated by budget cuts.
My local library is open 10-2 some days!
My local library is open 10-2 some days!
Go to local university library. Enjoy 8-10.
For some universities you need a student card to get in to the library
I love my local library - just wished they had coffee/tea shop. (Maybe a revenue stream for the library?)
no coffee sold or allowed
the bathrooms, at least in sf, are fucking cesspools. I mean a literal fucking piss moat around the toilet.
the bathrooms, at least in sf, are fucking cesspools. I mean a literal fucking piss moat around the toilet.
If that is the typical dialog between the owner and the customer, than I have to assume that the owner is an idiot, as are patrons of his establishment.
A coffee shop is not public space. It's a private space opened to the public under conditions defined by the owner of the shop.
If someone "just" bought something in your shop (as mentioned in the article) you shouldn't bother them. If you're running a business like this, managing expectations is a large part of your job.
When discussions with customers occur frequently maybe it's time to review how your business is communicating with customers. What can be done to prevent misunderstandings regarding using laptops/hogging tables? etc.
When discussions with customers occur frequently maybe it's time to review how your business is communicating with customers. What can be done to prevent misunderstandings regarding using laptops/hogging tables? etc.
What can be done is really to bother them. They set up to filter all outside noise anyway so that's the only way to get their attention.
If a coffee shop owner gets a bad reputation among teleworkers doing this, then that just means less for the coffee shop owner, getting him exactly the objective he wanted.
If a coffee shop owner gets a bad reputation among teleworkers doing this, then that just means less for the coffee shop owner, getting him exactly the objective he wanted.
The other issue not dealt with in any of these articles is the promulgation and inciting of a new form of hate.
Could you solve this by having very small tables, stands, or counters that don't work as desks?
The coffee-shop version of anti-homeless spikes?
More like the benches with dividers so they work for their intended purpose but not for sleeping.
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"People like public space. Just as they like to work in a coffee shop on a laptop surrounded by others, they want to hang out with friends, to people-watch, flirt, take part in the rituals of public life.
In the suburbs, the 20th-century answer to the need for “public” space was the mall. The first were in the US in the 1950s, conceived as public places with kindergartens, medical centres and community facilities alongside the shops. Within a few years, only the shopping was left.
Malls have come a long way since. “Malls without walls”, whole shopping districts, resemble parts of the city, with real streets and brick and stone façades, and transpire to be privately owned. Liverpool One is an example. Cash-strapped municipalities cannot compete and people throng to these places. Users, once citizens, are rebranded as consumers."
From http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-c...
"The consumer-citizen pops up all over the place, like a cardboard stand-in for democratic citizens who have no other political concerns beyond self-interested consumption .. the public is hung out to dry with effectively no defense or recourse since our political rights have evaporated into market choices."