Launching a weather balloon, a camera and a Raspberry Pi to the stratosphere(blog.pinterjann.is)
blog.pinterjann.is
Launching a weather balloon, a camera and a Raspberry Pi to the stratosphere
https://blog.pinterjann.is/?p=504
36 comments
why people don't attach rockets to such balloons? It is a very old idea, yet nobody so far seems to be doing it. Launch from 30km height without atmospheric drag to speak of would make reaching real space much easier. Is there some obstacle for doing it?
Had this idea before.
I search on this internet, if recall properly, it's because to get into orbit, you mainly need a good horizontal (parallel to the earth) speed, and the ballon only give a vertical speed.
Plus a ballon have lots of frictions and also cannot lift weight rocket.
I hope it help a bit. (If a rocket scientist could answer, that would be awesome)
Plus a ballon have lots of frictions and also cannot lift weight rocket.
I hope it help a bit. (If a rocket scientist could answer, that would be awesome)
Not a rocket scientist -- but I remember reading this: http://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
You're right, it's about lateral speed.
You're right, it's about lateral speed.
In the US, it is not legal to drop objects from amateur high altitude balloons. That includes launching projectiles from them.
Laws relating to high altitude balloons vary from country to country, so I don't know the reason for people not doing it outside the US.
Speaking of laws, at the minimum some things you should probably check before sending up a balloon is your country's laws on:
• What notification you have to give, if any, and/or markers you have to place on the balloon so that it won't interfere with air traffic as it passes through the altitudes airplanes and helicopters use.
• What methods of communication with the balloon are allowed. Many in the US us GSM cellular devices hooked to GPS units, but from what I've read that it is not legal to use cellular devices from high altitude balloons.
The best approach in the US is to get a Technician class amateur radio license (and if you are the kind of person who can put together a decent payload for a high altitude balloon, you can learn enough to easily pass the radio license test in a couple evenings). You can then use amateur radio frequencies and equipment for your telemetry, and you are even allowed to build your own radios. A transmitter can be pretty simple and cheap to build if you are willing to transmit your data in Morse code (like, a transistor, a crystal, and a handful of resistors and capacitors and such). If you are sticking an Arduino or Pi or some such in there, that can easily convert the data to Morse and send it, and automatically decoding it on the ground with a computer is not hard.
Everything else I've seen seems to be either illegal, or involves using unlicensed bands where you are legally limited to very low power which could be annoying (especially if your balloon lands far away from where you expected, and you are trying to track it down with radio direction finding). When you make licensed use of the ham bands, you can use a good amount of power (but only up to what is necessary to accomplish the mission).
In the UK, from what I've read, the ham option doesn't work. Hams are not allowed to transmit from aircraft, and that includes balloons. Not sure what the best legal method of operating there is.
• What constraints there are on the balloon. In the US there are regulations on, among other things, total weight of the complete system, total weight of the payload, and on the size/weight ratios of the components of the payload, and on the strength of the ropes attaching the payload to the balloon.
Laws relating to high altitude balloons vary from country to country, so I don't know the reason for people not doing it outside the US.
Speaking of laws, at the minimum some things you should probably check before sending up a balloon is your country's laws on:
• What notification you have to give, if any, and/or markers you have to place on the balloon so that it won't interfere with air traffic as it passes through the altitudes airplanes and helicopters use.
• What methods of communication with the balloon are allowed. Many in the US us GSM cellular devices hooked to GPS units, but from what I've read that it is not legal to use cellular devices from high altitude balloons.
The best approach in the US is to get a Technician class amateur radio license (and if you are the kind of person who can put together a decent payload for a high altitude balloon, you can learn enough to easily pass the radio license test in a couple evenings). You can then use amateur radio frequencies and equipment for your telemetry, and you are even allowed to build your own radios. A transmitter can be pretty simple and cheap to build if you are willing to transmit your data in Morse code (like, a transistor, a crystal, and a handful of resistors and capacitors and such). If you are sticking an Arduino or Pi or some such in there, that can easily convert the data to Morse and send it, and automatically decoding it on the ground with a computer is not hard.
Everything else I've seen seems to be either illegal, or involves using unlicensed bands where you are legally limited to very low power which could be annoying (especially if your balloon lands far away from where you expected, and you are trying to track it down with radio direction finding). When you make licensed use of the ham bands, you can use a good amount of power (but only up to what is necessary to accomplish the mission).
In the UK, from what I've read, the ham option doesn't work. Hams are not allowed to transmit from aircraft, and that includes balloons. Not sure what the best legal method of operating there is.
• What constraints there are on the balloon. In the US there are regulations on, among other things, total weight of the complete system, total weight of the payload, and on the size/weight ratios of the components of the payload, and on the strength of the ropes attaching the payload to the balloon.
> What methods of communication with the balloon are allowed. Many in the US us GSM cellular devices hooked to GPS units, but from what I've read that it is not legal to use cellular devices from high altitude balloons.
Also worth noting, consumer GPS chips won't work above a certain altitude (or speed for that matter), due to weapons export restrictions to prevent them from being used in missiles, etc
Also worth noting, consumer GPS chips won't work above a certain altitude (or speed for that matter), due to weapons export restrictions to prevent them from being used in missiles, etc
Some consumer chips will work. The regulations say they must not work at speeds above 515 m/s and altitudes above 18 km.
Some manufacturers follow the rules as written, and disable if the unit is above the speed limit AND the height limit. Some disable if the unit is above the speed limit OR the height limit.
The former are fine for balloons.
Some manufacturers follow the rules as written, and disable if the unit is above the speed limit AND the height limit. Some disable if the unit is above the speed limit OR the height limit.
The former are fine for balloons.
There's a UK group preparing to launch a small rocket from a high altitude balloon; they've built apparatus to do ground testing of release and ignition and guidance systems under realistic conditions of temperature soak and air pressure. Photos and description of the development process:
[1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/registerparis/
[2] http://www.theregister.co.uk/science/lohan/
[1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/registerparis/
[2] http://www.theregister.co.uk/science/lohan/
What kind of restrictions are there on airspace use for such project? Airspace might be the wrong word. Is there a chance an aircraft might hit the ballon etc?
In the UK you get permission to launch a balloon, and a NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) is published in advance
https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq
https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq
Coutry/state regulations vary across the world. Almost everywhere (might be a place on earth where this isn't legislated) you have to get proper authorization with a civil aviation agency.
In Germany, you need a permit from the authorities (in this case: Regierungspräsidium Freiburg, cost: 30€) and you have to register a weather ballon launch at the German flight control (Deutsche Flugsicherung, cost: free).
European students can apply for the REXUS/BEXUS programme by ESA and a couple of national space agencies. You get to design your own experiment and put it on either a balloon or a rocket.
It's a lot of work, but you get to experience the whole lifecycle of a space project -yay documentation/testing- and are supported by their engineers, and you travel quite a bit. (I was in a BEXUS 16 team - the balloon track - and can highly recommend the programme!)
http://www.rexusbexus.net/
It's a lot of work, but you get to experience the whole lifecycle of a space project -yay documentation/testing- and are supported by their engineers, and you travel quite a bit. (I was in a BEXUS 16 team - the balloon track - and can highly recommend the programme!)
http://www.rexusbexus.net/
Launch site is only 40 km from where I live, fun to find that on HN!
If someone wonders what those lines/structures on the hills are - those are vineyards. This region (Baden) is known for very nice wines :)
If someone wonders what those lines/structures on the hills are - those are vineyards. This region (Baden) is known for very nice wines :)
Is anyone familiar with materials and cost involved?
https://ukhas.org.uk/ Has a lot of very good information on the balloons people use along with the type of radio transmitters which are legal to use in the UK etc.
I have some insight into how not to do it. :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/2ncv6i/tifu_by_accide...
https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/2ncv6i/tifu_by_accide...
[deleted]
I did a flight like this but using Arduino instead of Raspberry Pi (total overkill and power hungry). Full details: http://blog.jgc.org/2011/04/gaga-1-flight.html
Looks more efficient .. with the use of Arduino
Yes [0]
Shoot me an email. I'm happy to answer questions.
[0] - http://robotrising.org/StratoSphere/collection.html
[0] - http://robotrising.org/StratoSphere/collection.html
> The local authorities helped us a lot, the forester aranged the cutting of two trees for us
We killed two trees for a 15 minute long youtube video.
Is this how little respect we all have for life?
We killed two trees for a 15 minute long youtube video.
Is this how little respect we all have for life?
may be cutting 2 trees in general isn't that big a deal in some situations, but looking at the photo it was definitely overkill in that situation - these trees were easily climbable and once up there it would be enough just to cut the branches the payload stuck onto.
Author here, the payload hung about 20 meters ( ~60 feet) above ground, we tried to climb up those trees but couldn't make it up to more than 5 meters. We also lent a ladder, but realized that even a 15 meter ladder is not enough to reach the payload. It's also very dangerous without climbing experience and without any climbing equipment to climb up such trees.
It was the only option for us to cut those trees down, since the wood workers of the town were just a few kilometers away from us. They directly processed the trees to firewood, which they were intended for. :)
It was the only option for us to cut those trees down, since the wood workers of the town were just a few kilometers away from us. They directly processed the trees to firewood, which they were intended for. :)
> They directly processed the trees to firewood, which they were intended for. :)
I honestly do not understand why you take video and pictures of a planet you do not care about. To try out your RPi toy, I guess? Or for some kind of publicity I do not quite understand?
A tree's function is not to "get processed." It is the terms you use that are failing you. By "get processed" you mean "to be killed." And by "function" you mean "the value humans commonly attribute to it." Politics is indeed the art of using this kind of language-bending. You follow these by coming up with a bunch of excuses to legitimize the unnecessary damage you caused to the flora of that region out of sheer arrogance.
> It's also very dangerous without climbing experience and without any climbing equipment to climb up such trees.
You either try, or accept defeat and design a better vehicle.
(1) I don't kill your partner just because s/he has parked her/his car at the spot where I wanted to park. (This is an exaggeration solely because we attribute more value to ourselves, out of arrogance, than to anything that we deem "other.")
(2) You don't burn the computer because your software has a bug. (This example is for those readers who persist on not shedding the aforementioned arrogance.)
I honestly do not understand why you take video and pictures of a planet you do not care about. To try out your RPi toy, I guess? Or for some kind of publicity I do not quite understand?
A tree's function is not to "get processed." It is the terms you use that are failing you. By "get processed" you mean "to be killed." And by "function" you mean "the value humans commonly attribute to it." Politics is indeed the art of using this kind of language-bending. You follow these by coming up with a bunch of excuses to legitimize the unnecessary damage you caused to the flora of that region out of sheer arrogance.
> It's also very dangerous without climbing experience and without any climbing equipment to climb up such trees.
You either try, or accept defeat and design a better vehicle.
(1) I don't kill your partner just because s/he has parked her/his car at the spot where I wanted to park. (This is an exaggeration solely because we attribute more value to ourselves, out of arrogance, than to anything that we deem "other.")
(2) You don't burn the computer because your software has a bug. (This example is for those readers who persist on not shedding the aforementioned arrogance.)
> I honestly do not understand why you take video and pictures of a planet you do not care about.
And how exactly did you come to this conclusion? Cutting down 2 trees makes him a bad person?
Germany is consumed up to almost a third of its surface by forests. In the last 10 years alone there was an estimated growth in forest areas of 0.4%, that is about 500km².
Do you know what that is called? Preservation of resourses. Cutting down 2 trees doesnt really mean anything when there are thousands of trees planted every week.
If you care so dearly about trees, make sure to never buy furniture again and sell your house while you're at it.
Trees are a renewable source of energy / building materials. So again, its not that much of a big deal. Try to direct your efforts towards things that you can actually change for the better.
> A tree's function is not to "get processed." No it's not. It's function is what we choose for it to be. Why? Because we can. But it is going to die sooner or later anyway. Cutting it down for it to processed into firewood is neither cruel nor arrogant, it is simply efficient. That aside, as I understood it, the forest workers were in that area cutting down trees anyway. So no unnecessary harm done by OP and his mates.
> Politics is indeed the art of using this kind of language-bending Now you're just looking for an excuse to bash him.. Also, be wary that not everyone on the internet is a native english speaker. Written words may be interpreted in different ways by different people. He only stated what the forest workers were using the trees for.
> You either try, or accept defeat and design a better vehicle. I'm sure that's what you would have done in that situation. Sadly, not everyone is such a good person.
>(1) I don't kill your partner just because s/he has parked her/his car at the spot where I wanted to park. (This is an exaggeration solely because we attribute more value to ourselves, out of arrogance, than to anything that we deem "other.")
According to your logic, we attribute more value to ourselves than to anything else. And thats perfectly fine. When you think about it, each person is the center of his/her universe and everything around them stops existing if they cease to exist. Of course we're arrogant, that is just part of the human psyche. It's perfectly normal to give things different values. As long as your views don't do any serious damage, that is. It determines what you really care about and what your passions are. Let people decide for themselves what they deem important and go live on your own self-designated moral highground.
>(2) You don't burn the computer because your software has a bug. (This example is for those readers who persist on not shedding the aforementioned arrogance.)
No, because when your software has a bug you go fix it. Logical thinking has a way of making things easier. That doesn't have anything to do with arrogance. When your probe is stuck on top of a tree that you can't reach and there are forest workers nearby, go ask them and your problem shall be solved. See?
But honestly at this point your exaggerationg so much that I don't even know what you're trying to get at.
And I don't even care. Guess I'll have to blame my arrogance for that.
Trees are a renewable source of energy / building materials. So again, its not that much of a big deal. Try to direct your efforts towards things that you can actually change for the better.
> A tree's function is not to "get processed." No it's not. It's function is what we choose for it to be. Why? Because we can. But it is going to die sooner or later anyway. Cutting it down for it to processed into firewood is neither cruel nor arrogant, it is simply efficient. That aside, as I understood it, the forest workers were in that area cutting down trees anyway. So no unnecessary harm done by OP and his mates.
> Politics is indeed the art of using this kind of language-bending Now you're just looking for an excuse to bash him.. Also, be wary that not everyone on the internet is a native english speaker. Written words may be interpreted in different ways by different people. He only stated what the forest workers were using the trees for.
> You either try, or accept defeat and design a better vehicle. I'm sure that's what you would have done in that situation. Sadly, not everyone is such a good person.
>(1) I don't kill your partner just because s/he has parked her/his car at the spot where I wanted to park. (This is an exaggeration solely because we attribute more value to ourselves, out of arrogance, than to anything that we deem "other.")
According to your logic, we attribute more value to ourselves than to anything else. And thats perfectly fine. When you think about it, each person is the center of his/her universe and everything around them stops existing if they cease to exist. Of course we're arrogant, that is just part of the human psyche. It's perfectly normal to give things different values. As long as your views don't do any serious damage, that is. It determines what you really care about and what your passions are. Let people decide for themselves what they deem important and go live on your own self-designated moral highground.
>(2) You don't burn the computer because your software has a bug. (This example is for those readers who persist on not shedding the aforementioned arrogance.)
No, because when your software has a bug you go fix it. Logical thinking has a way of making things easier. That doesn't have anything to do with arrogance. When your probe is stuck on top of a tree that you can't reach and there are forest workers nearby, go ask them and your problem shall be solved. See?
But honestly at this point your exaggerationg so much that I don't even know what you're trying to get at.
And I don't even care. Guess I'll have to blame my arrogance for that.
> Trees are a renewable source of energy / building materials.
You are too. :)
> So again, its not that much of a big deal.
...
You are too. :)
> So again, its not that much of a big deal.
...
Pretty sure they just trimmed the branches a bit for the box to drop.
Nope, the author says they pretty much had the trees chopped, in a later comment.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9503287
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9503287
Well that sucks.
An acre and a half of Amazon rainforest disappears every hour, and this is the deforestation you get upset about.
Don't you have better things to do, outrage junkie?
Don't you have better things to do, outrage junkie?
> An acre and a half of Amazon rainforest disappears every hour, and this is the deforestation you get upset about.
According to this logic, I ought to not get upset, nor criticize any policy, perspective, or activity that causes less deaths than a previous or current one did.
Assuming that for you, trees < animals < humans,
since the European colonization of Americas killed off about 100 million human beings,
I will have to wait for a catastrophe that kills off 101 million people to criticize anything that happens on earth.
Convenient.
According to this logic, I ought to not get upset, nor criticize any policy, perspective, or activity that causes less deaths than a previous or current one did.
Assuming that for you, trees < animals < humans,
since the European colonization of Americas killed off about 100 million human beings,
I will have to wait for a catastrophe that kills off 101 million people to criticize anything that happens on earth.
Convenient.
It reminds me of Balloon 1.0, which I can't find anymore on the web.
We also used a Raspberry Pi Model A+, but recorded 720p video. We powered it using a 9V block battery and regulated the voltage to 5V. Worked like a charm!
Here's some videos and pics: http://www.florianerzons.de/yffzhab/
Edit:
Completely forgot. I also wrote some blog posts for anyone asking themselves how this can be done:
http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/2/25/yffzhab---taking-videos-a... http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/3/2/yffzhab---powering-electro... http://mactunes.de/posts/2015/4/6/yffzhab---bill-of-material...