Ask HN: what's stopping you from launching?
21 comments
Yep. Same here: design.
Well that and we've spent so much time on the main app that we don't have a workable login yet - our login process is akin to 37signals where we subdomain the account i.e. yourcompany.domain.com so it's not that straight forward.
So for us it's literally too early to release since no one could sign up.
One thing we could do is have a signup with an email for news of our pending release... but we're still fine tuning exactly what message we want to release with.
This may be a huge mistake on our part but only time will tell. I'll be sure to share our experience releasing 'late', good or bad, with the HN community.
Well that and we've spent so much time on the main app that we don't have a workable login yet - our login process is akin to 37signals where we subdomain the account i.e. yourcompany.domain.com so it's not that straight forward.
So for us it's literally too early to release since no one could sign up.
One thing we could do is have a signup with an email for news of our pending release... but we're still fine tuning exactly what message we want to release with.
This may be a huge mistake on our part but only time will tell. I'll be sure to share our experience releasing 'late', good or bad, with the HN community.
Why the subdomain? Can someone explain why a lot of app are doing it? Personally, I avoid using an app that uses a subdomain.
I believe it makes it easier to partition traffic and different subdomains can have different configurations.
See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918971/when-should-i-use-... and http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/
See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918971/when-should-i-use-... and http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/
At a guess, I'd say because it's a popular feature (appeals to vanity AND is easier to remember) that simultaneously makes it easier to load balance.
A few reasons off the top of my head where subdomains make sense:
1. Letting users override subdomain with a custom domain (ala Posterous)
2. White-labeling (esp. in combination with #1)
3. SEO - last I researched, Google sees virtual hosts on same IP as separate entities, so if your clients use a custom domain and you have a "Powered by" backlink, you'll get some SEO juice
It's the easiest way for us to direct them to their own VM and database.
It also seems to work pretty well for all the 37signals apps and and few others that segment this way.
It also seems to work pretty well for all the 37signals apps and and few others that segment this way.
Ok, if you have a special case for your app and it uses virtual machines and things like that, I would understand.
But, talking about them, why 37signals are doing it? They have "normal" web applications that don't require that kind of separation to be efficient.
But, talking about them, why 37signals are doing it? They have "normal" web applications that don't require that kind of separation to be efficient.
37Signals could probably do it some other way but this was the most convenient way for them it seems.
They probably do it for the same reason we do: easy to direct traffic to different DBs and VMs this way, instead of waiting for the request to come in and direct it some other way.
There might also be an added value to the business/account seeing their name in the url... Not sure about that one though.
They probably do it for the same reason we do: easy to direct traffic to different DBs and VMs this way, instead of waiting for the request to come in and direct it some other way.
There might also be an added value to the business/account seeing their name in the url... Not sure about that one though.
Why do you specifically avoid it?
I sometimes found myself going to 37signals.com to access my basecamp project, and couldn't find a clear login box anywhere and felt lost and frustrated.
Like bemmu says, I don't remember where to log. If it's well-known site, I can live with it. If it's a new application that I just want to try, I just know that I will forget where to go.
I'm actually concerned about the graphic design of my startup. There is a pay-for-service component to it, and I have this feeling that if it doesn't look professional, no one will trust it. Anyone think that is a valid concern?
It is a valid concern. Credibility is important for a startup. It also depends on what you're offering.
If it's something remarkable then it won't matter as much. People will just want it and might look past things like design to get it.
Usually though when people are opening up their wallets they want to make sure the service is credible and the overall design is the first thing that helps them make this distinction, followed by a blog, founding team descriptions, press mentions etc...
If it's something remarkable then it won't matter as much. People will just want it and might look past things like design to get it.
Usually though when people are opening up their wallets they want to make sure the service is credible and the overall design is the first thing that helps them make this distinction, followed by a blog, founding team descriptions, press mentions etc...
It is a valid concern, but it would need to be bad to keep from launching (and thus improving based on analytics).
It also depends on your audience. Are they more web savvy?
It also depends on your audience. Are they more web savvy?
If it looks like time has been spent on attention-to-detail - and the application's approach has been thought out well, there's a fair chance visitors will view the app as a quality product regardless of graphical finesse.
Maybe the best approach to take when good graphic design is in short supply, is to keep it simple - and strip back all graphic elements that have no strict purpose?
Maybe the best approach to take when good graphic design is in short supply, is to keep it simple - and strip back all graphic elements that have no strict purpose?
I don't know what your startup is, but how can having something out there be worse than having nothing out there?
isn't worrying about your graphics design just a proximate cause of fear? we constantly pick at and spin around one little thing when we're afraid of moving forward and getting to the real root of the problem.
yes it's a concern but not enough to stop launch (assuming a base level of usability in the current design). you can redesign after launch and track how it improved conversion rates.
Two things - the design is, well, okay but extremely simple.. It just doesn't have that finished look about it.
And the app itself is incredibly simple, which makes me second guess myself as to whether it is too simplistic that users won't pay the few bucks I intend to charge for it. I keep telling myself that they pay for value, not the number of lines of code...
And the app itself is incredibly simple, which makes me second guess myself as to whether it is too simplistic that users won't pay the few bucks I intend to charge for it. I keep telling myself that they pay for value, not the number of lines of code...
Is it useful? I love Fried's point about your product being useful. Useful>Innovative.
I agree with pretty much everyone else - design is KEY.
Hiring someone like MetaLab seems unrealistic to bootstrapper's - doing it yourself usually leaves a lack confidence (at least for me).
But I don't think you should let design hold you back, if it's useful, people will use it, THEN you can invest your real time / effort / money into making it look better.
Hiring someone like MetaLab seems unrealistic to bootstrapper's - doing it yourself usually leaves a lack confidence (at least for me).
But I don't think you should let design hold you back, if it's useful, people will use it, THEN you can invest your real time / effort / money into making it look better.
A worthwhile idea. After trying a few projects, I've come to realize that it's going to have to be something I care enough about to sacrifice my time and energy for and sell without feeling fake.
I really have no clue what that is. All I want is cash money really.
I really have no clue what that is. All I want is cash money really.
from your profile: My dream is to make a big chunk of fk you money without having to do marketing or sales.
Web commerce doesn't sound like the way to go for you. You want to be a Wall Streeter.
Web commerce doesn't sound like the way to go for you. You want to be a Wall Streeter.
Can 100% understand this feeling and this is how I fight with this - just release this damn thing!
Not even restricting alfa beta invite only users, just do whatever you can, get feedback and keep improving it! Design never can be perfect - even getting best designers workin on my site i still keep finding issues with it. Its just endless process, and most of your client(not timewasters but client) really dont give it that much attention as you do!
Remember you will loose few clients today but you will learn on you mistakes today also. JUST DO IT!
Not even restricting alfa beta invite only users, just do whatever you can, get feedback and keep improving it! Design never can be perfect - even getting best designers workin on my site i still keep finding issues with it. Its just endless process, and most of your client(not timewasters but client) really dont give it that much attention as you do!
Remember you will loose few clients today but you will learn on you mistakes today also. JUST DO IT!
fear of failure. once you get it out there, it will be the true test.
Initially I thought "failure" as well. But it turns out, I could care less about "failing", it's my fear of PROBLEMS that stop me from launching.
I have a lot of stuff in my life to take care of already. If launching a product means more problems and little extra money, I definitely procrastinate.
Here are just a few problems I worry about before launch (just off the top of my head):
1) Connection problems that aren't even something I can personally fix (client-side)
2) Feature requests. Tweak requests. People that don't understand that the app isn't a CUSTOM program and wonder why they can't get what they want even though they are paying for it.
3) Credit card payment processing problems. Denied cards, expired cards, overdraft cards, PayPal, Auth.net, 2co, etc. The problem of what to do with accounts when someone isn't paying or when someone says they are trying to pay, or will pay, but don't pay... blah blah blah. PROBLEMS!!!
4) Meetings and Training. The app can be STUPID SIMPLE, but there are still those corporate people that want a training session, or a conference call, white papers, or a live meeting to discuss the benefits of our app. Seriously. Pay $20-$100 and just find out. If you are thinking about my app that much, it's probably not for you.
4) Monitoring backups, restores, server problems, data center problems, storage space, vps, dedicated servers, s3, e3, cloud, load problems, twitter api, facebook connect, etc, etc, etc
Problems, problems, problems, problems.
Maybe this isn't an issue when you have VC, but in the bootstrapping world, failure doesn't matter as much as PROBLEMS do.
I have a lot of stuff in my life to take care of already. If launching a product means more problems and little extra money, I definitely procrastinate.
Here are just a few problems I worry about before launch (just off the top of my head):
1) Connection problems that aren't even something I can personally fix (client-side)
2) Feature requests. Tweak requests. People that don't understand that the app isn't a CUSTOM program and wonder why they can't get what they want even though they are paying for it.
3) Credit card payment processing problems. Denied cards, expired cards, overdraft cards, PayPal, Auth.net, 2co, etc. The problem of what to do with accounts when someone isn't paying or when someone says they are trying to pay, or will pay, but don't pay... blah blah blah. PROBLEMS!!!
4) Meetings and Training. The app can be STUPID SIMPLE, but there are still those corporate people that want a training session, or a conference call, white papers, or a live meeting to discuss the benefits of our app. Seriously. Pay $20-$100 and just find out. If you are thinking about my app that much, it's probably not for you.
4) Monitoring backups, restores, server problems, data center problems, storage space, vps, dedicated servers, s3, e3, cloud, load problems, twitter api, facebook connect, etc, etc, etc
Problems, problems, problems, problems.
Maybe this isn't an issue when you have VC, but in the bootstrapping world, failure doesn't matter as much as PROBLEMS do.
These still exist in the "VC world," and then there are added constraints as well, such as expectations and pressure on yourself not to let other people down. Bootstrapping is simple; just get the fucking work done. Pardon my french, but that's what it comes down to. People find it easy to let themselves down, so when they do it's not a big deal, but letting a guy (or gal) down who took the time, effort, and money to put into your company will make you try that little bit more.
Find the motivation to get these small un-sexy tasks out of the way and then focus on growth. it doesn't matter how or where you find the motivation, just get your work done. Now I don't mean work 15 hours a day. Just stop wasting time when you are working. Come up with systems that optimize your time. And feel free to outsource. If you're familiar with economics, there is an opportunity cost to everything; odds are it costs you less in the long run to pay someone to keep up with your servers' status or to fulfill customer support so you can focus on what you are truly skilled at.
Find the motivation to get these small un-sexy tasks out of the way and then focus on growth. it doesn't matter how or where you find the motivation, just get your work done. Now I don't mean work 15 hours a day. Just stop wasting time when you are working. Come up with systems that optimize your time. And feel free to outsource. If you're familiar with economics, there is an opportunity cost to everything; odds are it costs you less in the long run to pay someone to keep up with your servers' status or to fulfill customer support so you can focus on what you are truly skilled at.
I was saying that I wonder if the reason VC funded companies don't launch is also because of possible "problems". Back when I worked at a "funded" company, we didn't launch because the programming team was never finished with anything.
As for just getting my f work done?? Are you serious? As a bootstrapped company, I already work all day on my company that MAKES money, then I have the side-project. The reason the side-project doesn't launch is because of the upcoming problems it creates.
Get the work done? Again. Seriously?
These are problems that come back daily or weekly, problems that don't just "get fixed", problems that recur endlessly and you have to stay on top of them. If you are working full time at your one business, developing constantly for the side-project you launched, THEN have to add the customer support problems, systems problems, live code bugs, etc..... THAT is why I don't launch.
The reason I don't launch is because the "problems" create a whole new "job" for me that I just don't have time to handle.
As for just getting my f work done?? Are you serious? As a bootstrapped company, I already work all day on my company that MAKES money, then I have the side-project. The reason the side-project doesn't launch is because of the upcoming problems it creates.
Get the work done? Again. Seriously?
These are problems that come back daily or weekly, problems that don't just "get fixed", problems that recur endlessly and you have to stay on top of them. If you are working full time at your one business, developing constantly for the side-project you launched, THEN have to add the customer support problems, systems problems, live code bugs, etc..... THAT is why I don't launch.
The reason I don't launch is because the "problems" create a whole new "job" for me that I just don't have time to handle.
As I said, there are means to overcome these maintenance problems; outsourcing the work being just one of them.
There seems to be a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going on here, and it seems to stem from the fact you feel overwhelmed and I am suggesting that more can be done. This dissonance is probably part of why your response is as aggressive as it is.
Get off HN and do the customer support. Skip that trip to the bar and get that next bug fixed. I know and am surprised from my own personal experiences at how much time we spend on small unproductive things. Personally, I think they are essential to being happy, but there can be stints where neglecting happiness and relaxation has a greater payoff; where doing the work and getting the customer support done will give you enough cash flow to hire someone to do it for you.
There is this little voice in everyone's head, saying that the extra work is too hard, that it'll be better not to stick it through. It's like there is a constant battle with yourself on what level of self-dominion you can achieve; meaning, your ability to actually get yourself to do what you want to do. It's running that 5th mile when you've run 4 and want to call it a day. It's coming home from work and putting in 2-3 hours into your side project when you just want to lay down and watch TV. How hard is it really to dig in and get it done?
I say what I do not to be critical of you--I don't know who you are, and I have no conflict with you personally--but because I know how sticky that emotion is. Feeling like that extra work isn't worth my time; I've been there. What it takes is doing small tasks, one at a time, to build momentum. Taking the trash out leads to cleaning your desk, which leads to writing up a short brief about things, and eventually, you're flying through and getting task after task done (not just work-related things) and you are 100% confident in your ability to say, "okay, so today I'm going to do X, Y, and Z," and at the end of the day you will have done those things.
There seems to be a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going on here, and it seems to stem from the fact you feel overwhelmed and I am suggesting that more can be done. This dissonance is probably part of why your response is as aggressive as it is.
Get off HN and do the customer support. Skip that trip to the bar and get that next bug fixed. I know and am surprised from my own personal experiences at how much time we spend on small unproductive things. Personally, I think they are essential to being happy, but there can be stints where neglecting happiness and relaxation has a greater payoff; where doing the work and getting the customer support done will give you enough cash flow to hire someone to do it for you.
There is this little voice in everyone's head, saying that the extra work is too hard, that it'll be better not to stick it through. It's like there is a constant battle with yourself on what level of self-dominion you can achieve; meaning, your ability to actually get yourself to do what you want to do. It's running that 5th mile when you've run 4 and want to call it a day. It's coming home from work and putting in 2-3 hours into your side project when you just want to lay down and watch TV. How hard is it really to dig in and get it done?
I say what I do not to be critical of you--I don't know who you are, and I have no conflict with you personally--but because I know how sticky that emotion is. Feeling like that extra work isn't worth my time; I've been there. What it takes is doing small tasks, one at a time, to build momentum. Taking the trash out leads to cleaning your desk, which leads to writing up a short brief about things, and eventually, you're flying through and getting task after task done (not just work-related things) and you are 100% confident in your ability to say, "okay, so today I'm going to do X, Y, and Z," and at the end of the day you will have done those things.
As much as i would like to say its this little defect, that minor defect or "i need to do abit more market research", its pretty much what tawheed said, fear that what i built isnt good enough, there are things that i didnt think of that will make it crash, people wont like it.Im over it now though, we are at our final week and regardless we gonna launch real soon
We felt the same way, but pushed it out early. Many things have clearly failed, but as a result we have learned an enormous amount about our users.
Lack of functionality was holding me back. Then it was no mechanism for feedback. I'm still thin on functionality and copy, but I have a feedback mechanism now.
www.SportsLeeg.com
Getting over the "first release" hurdle is tough. So many "what if"'s remain. Once it's out though, motivation goes through the roof to keep things running tight and releasing often. I find myself releasing 3-4 times a week now. Even for small stuff.
www.SportsLeeg.com
Getting over the "first release" hurdle is tough. So many "what if"'s remain. Once it's out though, motivation goes through the roof to keep things running tight and releasing often. I find myself releasing 3-4 times a week now. Even for small stuff.
I'm having trouble discerning what the meaning of "launching" is when most people talk about it. Is it as simple as deploying something to a production server? Or trying to get one more feature in that initial release? Either way, there is no excuse for soft launching now if you have any working code.
School for me.
There seem to be a lot of mentions of 'design' though. Honestly, it doesn't matter how good or bad your product is. Get -something- out there for other people to use. Run a private beta of just 5-10 people at first who are willing to critique everything to the ground. Then your design will fall into place rather than trying to be "smart" about it initially.
There is a difference between pretty design and converting design, and then there is a small group of designers capable of providing converting designs that are pretty. Your website need not be pretty to convert well though.
My $.02.
PS: No offense to PG and this wonderful community, but getting off the internet would probably help a lot of us more than it would hurt.
There seem to be a lot of mentions of 'design' though. Honestly, it doesn't matter how good or bad your product is. Get -something- out there for other people to use. Run a private beta of just 5-10 people at first who are willing to critique everything to the ground. Then your design will fall into place rather than trying to be "smart" about it initially.
There is a difference between pretty design and converting design, and then there is a small group of designers capable of providing converting designs that are pretty. Your website need not be pretty to convert well though.
My $.02.
PS: No offense to PG and this wonderful community, but getting off the internet would probably help a lot of us more than it would hurt.
I think graphic design should be thought of as graphical engineering .. in the sense that a good graphic designer is always trying to find the very best way to approach a problem.
Poor design isn't down to having bad aesthetic taste or lack of artistic skill - it's down to a lack of clarity in purpose.
Good design is clear thinking made visual... to be able to achieve this, clear-thinking needs to be built into the processes and workflows of applications from the get-go.
Too often, I think a lot of people see graphic design as a skin that can be slotted onto a second rate product to make it sing - and imo, this isn't the case.
Poor design isn't down to having bad aesthetic taste or lack of artistic skill - it's down to a lack of clarity in purpose.
Good design is clear thinking made visual... to be able to achieve this, clear-thinking needs to be built into the processes and workflows of applications from the get-go.
Too often, I think a lot of people see graphic design as a skin that can be slotted onto a second rate product to make it sing - and imo, this isn't the case.
Re-brand, user login system, some items that probably aren't critical but at least one person on the team feels 'has to be there'.
This makes me want to release an alpha today. Okay, maybe tomorrow.
This makes me want to release an alpha today. Okay, maybe tomorrow.
Here's a link to the video if you haven't seen it yet:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/24/startup-school-paul-buc...
I couldn't find it on justin.tv
Edit: Oops that's not the full video. Does anyone have the full video?
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/24/startup-school-paul-buc...
I couldn't find it on justin.tv
Edit: Oops that's not the full video. Does anyone have the full video?
I'm looking for it too. That part seems to be missing from justin.tv.
Plain old incompleteness. There's a number of bits where either the interface or the backend component aren't finished yet. Unfortunately, they're not optional.
The launch will be soon, though. We've got a big roadmap, but that's not going to stop us from launching the moment the app does something (anything!) useful.
The launch will be soon, though. We've got a big roadmap, but that's not going to stop us from launching the moment the app does something (anything!) useful.
Ease of use problems. Users have to upload SSL certificates, and Ruby's OpenSSL library is lacking in features and it's missing a lot of documentation, which is hindering efforts to handle different types of certificates and verification. Might give a message queue + a Python script a try...
My Biggest issue is that when you take the leap from "side project" to start-up, there has to be reasonable confidence that the idea is unique enough to make it as a startup.
Somehow I wont be building a search engine this week :)
Somehow I wont be building a search engine this week :)
Simple for me. I am not done yet...
Sorry if that was too inappropriate for a serious topic.
What stopped me in the past was always the design/look of the site.
Sorry if that was too inappropriate for a serious topic.
What stopped me in the past was always the design/look of the site.
I am working on something for which similar products exists in the market place...So making my product beat the existing alternatives is taking time for me
For me, it's getting over the attrition of not starting what I really want to work on.
A name for my game!
oddly enough for me - losing interest in the project. Once it's out there, I want to work on something else.
what's stopping you from releasing a demo/beta right now? For me, it's the design.