Ask HN: Windows laptop with Apple-like hardware?
My dad loves the hardware on my Macbook Pro but continues to be a hardcore Windows person. Any suggestion on what new laptop he should get?
12 comments
What hardware (specifically) is your dad enamored with? Just the generally durable build quality (aluminum frame, etc)? the big trackpad? Chiclet keys?
I've had luck with some Asus models that are clearly aping Apple's design style. They aren't quite up to the level of a MBP in terms of build quality but they can cost half as much for similar specs.
I picked one up this summer with an i7, 16GB RAM, nVidia GTX 760M, and a 1920x1080 display. Strong points are the aluminum frame, Apple-like multitouch trackpad, backlit chiclet keyboard, and fairly high specs for a $1k laptop.
Weaknesses compared to a MBP are that the bottom of the laptop is not aluminum (but does offer easy access to RAM slots and battery), the display is inferior to Apple's in terms of viewing angles, and the aluminum top is fairly thin so you can see it dimple slightly if you push on it with a decent amount of force.
For my uses, I was fine with sacrificing a slight amount of durability and viewing angle to get that level of components for under a grand but your dad may or may not find it worth the sacrifice. They had updated the model last time I was at Microcenter but still keep that $900-1000 price range, just an updated CPU and GPU as far as I can tell.
edit: this is the sort of thing I'm talking about - http://www.microcenter.com/product/438186/N551JK-MH71_156_La...
Also, I forgot to mention, the other "con" is it comes with a HDD instead of a SSD. For the things I do on this laptop, it was a sacrifice I was willing to make and I believe I can add one later if I so choose. Your results may vary and the list of things I considered small "cons" might be things your dad really doesn't want to do without and may be willing to pay another $1500 for in a MBP.
I've had luck with some Asus models that are clearly aping Apple's design style. They aren't quite up to the level of a MBP in terms of build quality but they can cost half as much for similar specs.
I picked one up this summer with an i7, 16GB RAM, nVidia GTX 760M, and a 1920x1080 display. Strong points are the aluminum frame, Apple-like multitouch trackpad, backlit chiclet keyboard, and fairly high specs for a $1k laptop.
Weaknesses compared to a MBP are that the bottom of the laptop is not aluminum (but does offer easy access to RAM slots and battery), the display is inferior to Apple's in terms of viewing angles, and the aluminum top is fairly thin so you can see it dimple slightly if you push on it with a decent amount of force.
For my uses, I was fine with sacrificing a slight amount of durability and viewing angle to get that level of components for under a grand but your dad may or may not find it worth the sacrifice. They had updated the model last time I was at Microcenter but still keep that $900-1000 price range, just an updated CPU and GPU as far as I can tell.
edit: this is the sort of thing I'm talking about - http://www.microcenter.com/product/438186/N551JK-MH71_156_La...
Also, I forgot to mention, the other "con" is it comes with a HDD instead of a SSD. For the things I do on this laptop, it was a sacrifice I was willing to make and I believe I can add one later if I so choose. Your results may vary and the list of things I considered small "cons" might be things your dad really doesn't want to do without and may be willing to pay another $1500 for in a MBP.
I'll second the ASUS laptop recommendation. I bought one a few months ago, and it's easily the best constructed non-Apple laptop I've ever seen or used.
The ASUS Zenbook line is probably the closest thing to Apple hardware you can get on the windows side of things. They have fairly powerful ultrabooks with similar style/form factor to Macs that you can get with SSDs and dedicated graphics.
I personally have a UX32VD that came with Windows 8 that I run linux on. The machine is primarily aluminum, and is slightly thicker and heavier than a Macbook air. It has backlit chiclet style keys with an almost identical to Macbook layour, and a single button, multi-touch trackpad. It has a 1080p IPS screen in a 13" form factor, which means pixel density and colors are pretty good. The build quality is not as high as Apple, but its better than most PC manufacturers and I have been happy with the machine. I bought it a couple years ago, and I was able to get an i7 processor, a 256GB SSD, 12GB RAM, and dedicated nVidia graphics for ~$1300. The one con is battery life. I get about 4 hours, but this could probably be improved with a less intensive newer generation processor.
I personally have a UX32VD that came with Windows 8 that I run linux on. The machine is primarily aluminum, and is slightly thicker and heavier than a Macbook air. It has backlit chiclet style keys with an almost identical to Macbook layour, and a single button, multi-touch trackpad. It has a 1080p IPS screen in a 13" form factor, which means pixel density and colors are pretty good. The build quality is not as high as Apple, but its better than most PC manufacturers and I have been happy with the machine. I bought it a couple years ago, and I was able to get an i7 processor, a 256GB SSD, 12GB RAM, and dedicated nVidia graphics for ~$1300. The one con is battery life. I get about 4 hours, but this could probably be improved with a less intensive newer generation processor.
Razer Blade 2104
http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Blade-Touchscreen-Gaming-Laptop/...
It's basically a macbook but PC/Win + Black
It's basically a macbook but PC/Win + Black
Q) what's worse than compromise-ridden, consumer-hostile design (reflective screens, no splash guards, fixed batteries, non-upgradable drives and RAM, etc. etc.?).
A) third-party clones of same
... assuming that it is, as you say, basically a Macbook.
A) third-party clones of same
... assuming that it is, as you say, basically a Macbook.
Question for those on here loving the Apple trackpads for coding: what exactly are you doing, as a coder, that requires a nice trackpad? I hardly use mine. I lost a bunch of trackpad functionality when switching from Linux to FreeBSD, and hardly miss it at all (mostly when in Firefox).
take look at Asus Zenbook series http://www.asus.com/zenbook/
You would need to get him a Macbook Pro, you can run Windows on a Macbook Pro using Bootcamp or install it on a VM using one of the many virtualization clients that have some very nice optional integration abilities into OS X.
If he really likes the Macbook Pro, it is best to get him a Macbook Pro, he might become a hybrid fan. Either way with him having a Mac and running OS X he will be able to increase his knowledge base by adding experience overtime with OS X and maybe adding Linux later down the line.
If he really likes the Macbook Pro, it is best to get him a Macbook Pro, he might become a hybrid fan. Either way with him having a Mac and running OS X he will be able to increase his knowledge base by adding experience overtime with OS X and maybe adding Linux later down the line.
I've thought about this. Does anyone have experience running Windows as the primary OS on a Mac?
Yes, I mostly run Win8.1 on a rMBP via bootcamp, and have no problems with it (took me a few hours to setup, you'll need a 16GB USB stick and a non-upgrade Windows 8 key to do it). The trackpad support is not as good as in OS X, but still infinitely better than any trackpad I've used on a pure Windows machine.
It is definitely better than my previous Carbon X1. High res is beautiful (though there are many Windows options for that these days).
It is definitely better than my previous Carbon X1. High res is beautiful (though there are many Windows options for that these days).
> The trackpad support is not as good as in OS X, but still infinitely better than any trackpad I've used on a pure Windows machine.
Does it support precise scrolling (per-pixel instead of per-line?) The trackpads in Windows 8 ultrabooks support this, but I've heard that the Windows drivers for the MBP trackpad don't.
Does it support precise scrolling (per-pixel instead of per-line?) The trackpads in Windows 8 ultrabooks support this, but I've heard that the Windows drivers for the MBP trackpad don't.
No, but the accompanying jitter would not be very usable for what I do (coding mostly). The ultrabook trackpads seem to have more features, just none of them done very well :(
Edit:
There are things you can do to tune scrolling that are quite nice; see http://waded.org/2013/01/15/perfecting-trackpad-scrolling-in...
Edit:
There are things you can do to tune scrolling that are quite nice; see http://waded.org/2013/01/15/perfecting-trackpad-scrolling-in...
Yeah, you're right about that. My trackpad has a bunch of features that are so useless, I just leave them switched off. The scrolling is nice though. I've always wondered if I could switch to an MBP for Windows stuff, but if I did, I'd need to keep precise/inertial scrolling. Maybe those Trackpad++ drivers would be best for me.
Depends what he loves about the Apple hardware. Can you tell us what features he particularly likes?
The trackpad and the keyboard. But I think the overall sturdiness is what impresses him.
Suggest he try one of the better Lenovo ThinkPad models (maybe an L or W?).
In my experience the keyboard is better, the trackpad comparable, and the anti-reflective screen is much better for almost all purposes in almost all circumstances.
Anecdotal experience suggests they're more robust than Apple hardware too. A colleague killed her MacBook Air with a spilled drink; my L520 has a splash-proof keyboard that has resisted a few good spills.
Likewise, I've cracked the glass on a MacBook Pro (runs right to the edge of the screen; easy to close on a plug or cable) but never so much as scratched the screen on any of my ThinkPads (I've owned a few).
Oh, and the ThinkPad is designed to be user-serviceable too; I wore out the space bar on my L520 and replaced it courtesy a site that sells individual keys for that purpose.
In my experience the keyboard is better, the trackpad comparable, and the anti-reflective screen is much better for almost all purposes in almost all circumstances.
Anecdotal experience suggests they're more robust than Apple hardware too. A colleague killed her MacBook Air with a spilled drink; my L520 has a splash-proof keyboard that has resisted a few good spills.
Likewise, I've cracked the glass on a MacBook Pro (runs right to the edge of the screen; easy to close on a plug or cable) but never so much as scratched the screen on any of my ThinkPads (I've owned a few).
Oh, and the ThinkPad is designed to be user-serviceable too; I wore out the space bar on my L520 and replaced it courtesy a site that sells individual keys for that purpose.
I've got to say, the liquid-catch-drain system Lenovo uses is pretty damned handy. It's one of those features you don't use very often (hopefully), but it's fantastic when you do need it.
From what I saw when my colleague spilled a drink on a MacBook Air, Apple has a similar system. It's just that the Apple design uses the motherboard, which must be replaced afterwards ;)
Hah, yup, definitely lost a Macbook Pro to that (luckily it was only a 13"). I was 4 days away from a big demo with a client, so I turned it off, walked across the street and bought another one, went home and pulled the hard drive out of the coffee-enhanced one, and carried on.
In the aftermath, Apple wanted somewhere around $700 to fix it (motherboard, keyboard, trackpad). I ended up giving it to my very-handy-and-can't-see-any-hardware-die uncle, who found a company that specializes in repairing liquid soaked equipment. Only ended up costing him about $200 to fix it, but many hours of research and re-assembly.
In the aftermath, Apple wanted somewhere around $700 to fix it (motherboard, keyboard, trackpad). I ended up giving it to my very-handy-and-can't-see-any-hardware-die uncle, who found a company that specializes in repairing liquid soaked equipment. Only ended up costing him about $200 to fix it, but many hours of research and re-assembly.
Lenovo ThinkPad carbon is more like the MacBook Air but otherwise see http://www.notebookcheck.net/Notebookcheck-s-Top-10-Ultraboo...
You can run Windows on Apple hardware natively.
https://www.apple.com/support/bootcamp/
https://www.apple.com/support/bootcamp/
Samsung Series 9. I have one and it's probably the closest thing to Apple that you will get.
How about a surface pro 3?
I'm running a 2014 15" MBP as a Windows machine with bootcamp. It's not bad, but would not have been my first choice (Company issued) My personal beef is the keyboard layout sucks (for a Windows guy). Other than that it's a perfectly capable Windows machine.
Having said that, my first choice is the Dell XPS 15 (http://www.dell.com/au/p/xps-15-9530/pd)
Otherwise the Lenovo Carbon or Yoga Pro 2/3 are also great depending on what you're looking for.
Having said that, my first choice is the Dell XPS 15 (http://www.dell.com/au/p/xps-15-9530/pd)
Otherwise the Lenovo Carbon or Yoga Pro 2/3 are also great depending on what you're looking for.
Look at a Surface Pro 3. And definitely not a Macbook Pro like people are recommending -- for a variety of reasons: driver quality, needless frustration with Apple software, etc etc.