How I work as a digital nomad(typicalprogrammer.com)
typicalprogrammer.com
How I work as a digital nomad
http://typicalprogrammer.com/how-i-work-as-a-digital-nomad/
11 comments
>all I can really see are all sorts of compromises.
Well, staying in the same house/appartment, seeing the same people over and over, commuting in traffic, going to the same office to have meetings the the same PHB, etc etc also involves "all sorts of compromises". Even if you freelance and you don't have the office thing, there's still the rot in your everyday life.
>* The rest of it - washing your bland travel clothes in a hotel shower with "hotel shampoo" - would surely grow pretty tiresome after a month or two, if you're in any way used to and appreciative of a comfortable lifestyle.*
You'd be surprised. I've lived in both kinds of situations (and on/off) and some people just feel great with that too. After all it's just a "first world problem" of the bigger calibre ("oh, I miss my big fridge and and my huge monitor").
But even those "incoveniences" can be overcome if you don't like it. With something like $800/month you can have a huge house in some parts of SE Asia, with a pool, and with your personal assistant to cook, clean the house, wash clothes etc. Better than what most of us have "back at home" actually.
Well, staying in the same house/appartment, seeing the same people over and over, commuting in traffic, going to the same office to have meetings the the same PHB, etc etc also involves "all sorts of compromises". Even if you freelance and you don't have the office thing, there's still the rot in your everyday life.
>* The rest of it - washing your bland travel clothes in a hotel shower with "hotel shampoo" - would surely grow pretty tiresome after a month or two, if you're in any way used to and appreciative of a comfortable lifestyle.*
You'd be surprised. I've lived in both kinds of situations (and on/off) and some people just feel great with that too. After all it's just a "first world problem" of the bigger calibre ("oh, I miss my big fridge and and my huge monitor").
But even those "incoveniences" can be overcome if you don't like it. With something like $800/month you can have a huge house in some parts of SE Asia, with a pool, and with your personal assistant to cook, clean the house, wash clothes etc. Better than what most of us have "back at home" actually.
>With something like $800/month you can have a huge house in some parts of SE Asia, with a pool, and with your personal assistant to cook, clean the house, wash clothes etc. Better than what most of us have "back at home" actually.
Which parts are that? I'm planning to travel this winter and looking for places to settle for a month or two.
Which parts are that? I'm planning to travel this winter and looking for places to settle for a month or two.
Check here for example:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country...
A 3 badroom apt in the city center is around $650 dollars. Outside of center, half that.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country...
A 3 badroom apt in the city center is around $650 dollars. Outside of center, half that.
Chiang Mai is a good choice.
There is significantly less traffic than Bangkok and it's much cheaper whilst you can easily buy any imports you might want to make yourself feel at home.
The reason Thailand always comes up in these kinds of discussions is that it is a much better choice than Myanmar, Laos or Cambodia with the possible exception of Vietnam that I can't vouch for since I haven't been. Hospitals are better here than in major Chinese cities and even big expenses such as cars are noticeably cheaper here than in the west because Japanese car companies have factories here.
A big plus is that the weather here is excellent precisely when it turns uncomfortable in the US and Europe.
Also if you have a hardware startup it's very easy to take the 1.5 hour flight to Hong Kong for 65USD and take the MTR to Shenzhen or drive anywhere in Guangdong within a couple of hours.
Internet here is fine if you get your own DSL or Cable connection. SSH connections to Singapore and Hong Kong are very comfortable latency wise.
There are occasional power outages but those don't last long and are easily solved with a UPS.
The only true caveat I can think of is the air pollution, but it's nowhere near Chinese levels, having stayed there for several years.
There is significantly less traffic than Bangkok and it's much cheaper whilst you can easily buy any imports you might want to make yourself feel at home.
The reason Thailand always comes up in these kinds of discussions is that it is a much better choice than Myanmar, Laos or Cambodia with the possible exception of Vietnam that I can't vouch for since I haven't been. Hospitals are better here than in major Chinese cities and even big expenses such as cars are noticeably cheaper here than in the west because Japanese car companies have factories here.
A big plus is that the weather here is excellent precisely when it turns uncomfortable in the US and Europe.
Also if you have a hardware startup it's very easy to take the 1.5 hour flight to Hong Kong for 65USD and take the MTR to Shenzhen or drive anywhere in Guangdong within a couple of hours.
Internet here is fine if you get your own DSL or Cable connection. SSH connections to Singapore and Hong Kong are very comfortable latency wise.
There are occasional power outages but those don't last long and are easily solved with a UPS.
The only true caveat I can think of is the air pollution, but it's nowhere near Chinese levels, having stayed there for several years.
I totally get that different people want very different things, and I do understand that commuting and meetings are part of the rut of compromise that most people feel they have to tolerate, but some people feel a burning desire to escape. I'm probably biased against this sort of lifestyle right now because I have a young family which would make being a "digital nomad" impossible; and perhaps there's a twinge of jealousy in there because I do enjoy travelling and periodically get a little sick of rainy England. (On the bright side, I don't have much of a commute right now...)
I'm not sure having a huge house with a pool and a maid could really be considered a nomadic lifestyle. :-)
I'm not sure having a huge house with a pool and a maid could really be considered a nomadic lifestyle. :-)
>* I'm probably biased against this sort of lifestyle right now because I have a young family which would make being a "digital nomad" impossible;*
Yeah. You can always try it later, when the kids grow up and leave (I think the guy in TFA mentions he has already worked for "30 years" in normal offices, which would imply that too). Or can go for a month or so, during they school vacations. You work, and the kids have their holidays in the same remote place. Kids can grow to enjoy travel and its culture -- though I wouldn't take them away from their regular school and friends.
>I'm not sure having a huge house with a pool and a maid could really be considered a nomadic lifestyle. :-)
Well, if you have that house each time in a different city / country, I think it still qualifies!
Yeah. You can always try it later, when the kids grow up and leave (I think the guy in TFA mentions he has already worked for "30 years" in normal offices, which would imply that too). Or can go for a month or so, during they school vacations. You work, and the kids have their holidays in the same remote place. Kids can grow to enjoy travel and its culture -- though I wouldn't take them away from their regular school and friends.
>I'm not sure having a huge house with a pool and a maid could really be considered a nomadic lifestyle. :-)
Well, if you have that house each time in a different city / country, I think it still qualifies!
We use holidays to reverse migrate from Asia to Europe, just rent a place for a couple of weeks and do work.
Beijing has a lot of environmental problems, so it is important to get out often.
Beijing has a lot of environmental problems, so it is important to get out often.
What does "reverse migrate" mean?
I live in Asia and am instead a part time nomad in the west.
> because I have a young family which would make being a "digital nomad" impossible;
My wife and I own a camper. We're not nomads, we take it out on weekends mostly. That said we do spend a fair amount of time in RV parks these days. I'm amazed by the number of young families living full time in RV's. The story is almost always the same: Both parents work in technology and they wanted to see the country while their kids were still young.
In the U.S. almost every RV park has good wifi these days (seriously hotels, why can't you figure this out too?). They work a relatively normal work schedule and travel around at night and during the weekends.
From my observation it's difficult, but by no means impossible.
Here's a great blog from a family of 3 that's doing it:
http://www.newschoolnomads.com/
My wife and I own a camper. We're not nomads, we take it out on weekends mostly. That said we do spend a fair amount of time in RV parks these days. I'm amazed by the number of young families living full time in RV's. The story is almost always the same: Both parents work in technology and they wanted to see the country while their kids were still young.
In the U.S. almost every RV park has good wifi these days (seriously hotels, why can't you figure this out too?). They work a relatively normal work schedule and travel around at night and during the weekends.
From my observation it's difficult, but by no means impossible.
Here's a great blog from a family of 3 that's doing it:
http://www.newschoolnomads.com/
Given the size of the UK, we don't really have a culture of this sort of thing here. (We do have caravans, but typically a family might spend a week in one, not a year.) It all sounds quite extraordinary to me; I wonder, is this good for the children? For their education?
Not having a camper, nor any interest in getting one, I don't have a dog in this fight. However, I do believe that "living differently" is good for people in general, children in particular. I live with wife & 2 kids on a small horse farm. One child can barely remember the suburbs (the city not at all), the other has never known them. I think that we are all better people for living "out there."
Not that there's anything generally better about where we live, but because we realized that we had a choice and chose to live where & how we would be happier. And growing up seeing that there are many different ways to live instead of assuming everyone lives in a suburban housing development is probably the best thing we could do for their education.
And BTW, the rural school district we live in is very good if you care about that kind of thing.
Not that there's anything generally better about where we live, but because we realized that we had a choice and chose to live where & how we would be happier. And growing up seeing that there are many different ways to live instead of assuming everyone lives in a suburban housing development is probably the best thing we could do for their education.
And BTW, the rural school district we live in is very good if you care about that kind of thing.
> After all it's just a "first world problem" of the bigger calibre ("oh, I miss my big fridge and and my huge monitor").
I turn into a "digital nomad" every now and then, but I wouldn't consider monitor size a first-world problem. There's just no way to work on a 13" MacBook without ruining your back :( Luckily I have a 24" screen that fits nicely into my suitcase.
I turn into a "digital nomad" every now and then, but I wouldn't consider monitor size a first-world problem. There's just no way to work on a 13" MacBook without ruining your back :( Luckily I have a 24" screen that fits nicely into my suitcase.
>There's just no way to work on a 13" MacBook without ruining your back
If it's your back you're concerned about, you can get a stand and a bluetooth keyboard. That doesn't have to do with monitor size, just posture.
If it's your back you're concerned about, you can get a stand and a bluetooth keyboard. That doesn't have to do with monitor size, just posture.
>I have a 24" screen that fits nicely into my suitcase.
Details, please -- particularly about the stand, which is usually the part that is very awkward to transport.
Details, please -- particularly about the stand, which is usually the part that is very awkward to transport.
Well, you can also just buy a cheap one when you get there.
Either just the stand (e.g a VESA style mount) or even the whole monitor, they go for like $300 these days, which if you're gonna stay for 6 months or so makes sense (and you can always sell before leaving -- or leave to someone as a nice gift).
Either just the stand (e.g a VESA style mount) or even the whole monitor, they go for like $300 these days, which if you're gonna stay for 6 months or so makes sense (and you can always sell before leaving -- or leave to someone as a nice gift).
I can't agree more - this sort of roaming's not for everyone, and the number of people who thrive on that sort of lifestyle is a lot smaller than the number of people who think they would thrive on that sort of lifestyle.
My own travels taught me that I don't just want a comfortable lifestyle (something you can buy in some version almost anywhere) but a particular variety of comfortable lifestyle - the sort of place within walking distance of a Whole Foods and restaurants that know the right type of glass for each wine varietal.
I might be a total yuppie, but at least I'm a self-aware yuppie, and I appreciate my surroundings a whole lot more than I used to.
My own travels taught me that I don't just want a comfortable lifestyle (something you can buy in some version almost anywhere) but a particular variety of comfortable lifestyle - the sort of place within walking distance of a Whole Foods and restaurants that know the right type of glass for each wine varietal.
I might be a total yuppie, but at least I'm a self-aware yuppie, and I appreciate my surroundings a whole lot more than I used to.
Fixing broken projects is a super valuable skill to have and can be rewarding in its own way. I've reached the point where I hardly ever say "whoever wrote this was an idiot" and see why it ended up that way in the first place. More than code debugging it's also social and process debugging. You can probably tell by this point I also don't mind this kind of work (anymore).
I tried to mix in some practical advice for living in hotels with my opinions and experiences.
Actually I have an apartment in Bangkok with maid service. I don't do my own laundry unless I'm staying at a hotel for just a day or two.
Actually I have an apartment in Bangkok with maid service. I don't do my own laundry unless I'm staying at a hotel for just a day or two.
> washing your bland travel clothes in a hotel shower with "hotel shampoo" - would surely grow pretty tiresome after a month or two
The probably isn't necessary. Depending on the locale/hotel, there are probably local laundromats or hotel equivalents.
You might even be able to convince hotel staff to run it through with the hotel sheets if you really wanted to.
> (I'm also fascinated by this guy's predilection for doing maintenance work and fixing broken projects - I can hardly imagine anything worse!)
On the other hand, I don't take too much of an issue with maintenance work and fixing broken projects. The issues that I usually have with these things are when restrictions are placed on me and I end up having to implement half-measures rather than taking the time to do a better job.
The probably isn't necessary. Depending on the locale/hotel, there are probably local laundromats or hotel equivalents.
You might even be able to convince hotel staff to run it through with the hotel sheets if you really wanted to.
> (I'm also fascinated by this guy's predilection for doing maintenance work and fixing broken projects - I can hardly imagine anything worse!)
On the other hand, I don't take too much of an issue with maintenance work and fixing broken projects. The issues that I usually have with these things are when restrictions are placed on me and I end up having to implement half-measures rather than taking the time to do a better job.
Agreed: when I was on the road internationally for 3 months, I always used the hotel laundry service if they offered one. Though if I'd known there were places like Freddy Leck (laundromat in Berlin with free wifi & serves coffee & cakes) I would've used that instead. Don't be a smelly traveller.
If you're prepared to take checked luggage, you can take a lot more clothes with you (or have room to buy more on your travels). Jeans were fine for me in Europe & even Vegas in July, though I'm used to 100F heat in summer.
If you're prepared to take checked luggage, you can take a lot more clothes with you (or have room to buy more on your travels). Jeans were fine for me in Europe & even Vegas in July, though I'm used to 100F heat in summer.
I'm not a digital nomad per se but I think I found a good compromise. Instead of traveling often like he does and dealing with having to travel light and not having all of the conforts, I move to a different country every year or so while still keeping all my customers in the US.
I find that it's the best of both world, I have time to discover any country I move to and really get to know the culture. It's also much easier on my clients because it's easy for them to know how to reach me and I'm sure I always have a good internet connection.
One thing I do recommend though is getting an expat health insurance like GMC, BUPA, A+, AETNA, ... It's a bit of an expense (I'm in my 30s and pay $220/month with a deductible of $1200/year for coverage anywhere in the world except Canada and US) but I think it's important for the peace of mind that it procures.
I find that it's the best of both world, I have time to discover any country I move to and really get to know the culture. It's also much easier on my clients because it's easy for them to know how to reach me and I'm sure I always have a good internet connection.
One thing I do recommend though is getting an expat health insurance like GMC, BUPA, A+, AETNA, ... It's a bit of an expense (I'm in my 30s and pay $220/month with a deductible of $1200/year for coverage anywhere in the world except Canada and US) but I think it's important for the peace of mind that it procures.
I think you deserve your own blog post as well.
I'm currently working remotely through some extremely lucky means (Company I worked with full-time let me work remotely for a year) and I would love to continue doing this full-time.
My biggest hurdle is finding a company that is interested in hiring a junior-intermediate remote worker. I just recently officially graduated and only have 2 years of 'real' experience and it seems most companies that offer remote work are looking for workers with 5+ years of experience.
When did you start this lifestyle? Do you find the benefits outweigh the positives? How do you balance having a family/wife/children?
I'm currently working remotely through some extremely lucky means (Company I worked with full-time let me work remotely for a year) and I would love to continue doing this full-time.
My biggest hurdle is finding a company that is interested in hiring a junior-intermediate remote worker. I just recently officially graduated and only have 2 years of 'real' experience and it seems most companies that offer remote work are looking for workers with 5+ years of experience.
When did you start this lifestyle? Do you find the benefits outweigh the positives? How do you balance having a family/wife/children?
I had 4 years of experience when I started freelancing. I quit my job with enough reserve to last one year and an half and moved to Southeast Asia.
I still continued to do a bit of work for my previous company but it was actually very difficult finding new clients and if I were to do it again I'd recommend not doing what I did.
It took me about a year before I found new clients with enough work to support me. Part of the reason for that is that it took me a while before I could actually force myself to work productively at home without anyone breathing down my neck. I found my clients with a combination of blog post and contributions to open source projects.
I don't have a family and children, I have a girlfriend who does remote work as a graphic designer so it works out well for us.
I really like the life I have now but it's true that it's not for everyone, working at home is not easy for a lot of people (I do recommend checking out local co-working spaces for this). You also have to enjoy spending time learning new languages and trying to adapt to a culture that's different from your own. Moving to a new place and getting everything ready can be stressful (I tend to be easy going by nature so that doesn't bother me)
If I had children, I'm not sure what I would do.
I still continued to do a bit of work for my previous company but it was actually very difficult finding new clients and if I were to do it again I'd recommend not doing what I did.
It took me about a year before I found new clients with enough work to support me. Part of the reason for that is that it took me a while before I could actually force myself to work productively at home without anyone breathing down my neck. I found my clients with a combination of blog post and contributions to open source projects.
I don't have a family and children, I have a girlfriend who does remote work as a graphic designer so it works out well for us.
I really like the life I have now but it's true that it's not for everyone, working at home is not easy for a lot of people (I do recommend checking out local co-working spaces for this). You also have to enjoy spending time learning new languages and trying to adapt to a culture that's different from your own. Moving to a new place and getting everything ready can be stressful (I tend to be easy going by nature so that doesn't bother me)
If I had children, I'm not sure what I would do.
I have all the comforts, I just didn't bring them with me from the US. I can live in a nice furnished condo or apartment with maid service and all the amenities for 1/2 to 1/4 what I'd pay in the US.
I kind of do this, though I hate the digital nomad moniker.
I used to split time between NYC and Vietnam. NYC for client work, Vietnam for bootstrapping my publishing platform (shameless plug our eat your own dog food first magazine is coming out soon: http://vimeo.com/100580125). However, for the last year, I've been in Vietnam full time, giving up my apartment in NYC and "relocating" to Nevada for tax purposes. I did this partly because I was getting closer to finishing up the first phase of the publishing project, but also because I found out I was going to be a father ;)
The hardest part is keeping work coming in at a constant enough rate. In NYC I was always booked solid, 24/7, but in Vietnam it comes and goes in spurts. Partly because some of the work I did in NYC has hardware requirements that can't be met here in Vietnam (large retail experiential installs) and partly because business is slow for my main client. Finding new clients to fill the gaps has required some serious email/linkedin networking hustle, but it can be done.
I've had people interested in hiring me for local projects, but I've had a hard time lowering my rates to a level acceptable for both parties. Even though they are regaled by the amount of experience, developing countries might not be so focused on quality over quantity. Which is OK.
If you take the time to get TEFL certification, that's a possible fall back. I'm a college drop out, so that's no bueno.
Anyways, wouldn't trade the experience for anything. YMMV.
I used to split time between NYC and Vietnam. NYC for client work, Vietnam for bootstrapping my publishing platform (shameless plug our eat your own dog food first magazine is coming out soon: http://vimeo.com/100580125). However, for the last year, I've been in Vietnam full time, giving up my apartment in NYC and "relocating" to Nevada for tax purposes. I did this partly because I was getting closer to finishing up the first phase of the publishing project, but also because I found out I was going to be a father ;)
The hardest part is keeping work coming in at a constant enough rate. In NYC I was always booked solid, 24/7, but in Vietnam it comes and goes in spurts. Partly because some of the work I did in NYC has hardware requirements that can't be met here in Vietnam (large retail experiential installs) and partly because business is slow for my main client. Finding new clients to fill the gaps has required some serious email/linkedin networking hustle, but it can be done.
I've had people interested in hiring me for local projects, but I've had a hard time lowering my rates to a level acceptable for both parties. Even though they are regaled by the amount of experience, developing countries might not be so focused on quality over quantity. Which is OK.
If you take the time to get TEFL certification, that's a possible fall back. I'm a college drop out, so that's no bueno.
Anyways, wouldn't trade the experience for anything. YMMV.
>The hardest part is keeping work coming in at a constant enough rate. In NYC I was always booked solid, 24/7, but in Vietnam it comes and goes in spurts. Partly because some of the work I did in NYC has hardware requirements that can't be met here in Vietnam (large retail experiential installs) and partly because business is slow for my main client.
The only way I got around this was by building my own platform that brought in clients. I teach the LSAT, and chose to live in Montreal. It's French, not a major city for English speaking law school admissions.
NYC is the major market. I would have been booked solid if I lived there. But I likely also would have hit a local maximum, doing lots of $200 an hour tutoring and teaching $1200 classroom courses.
Instead, I had to develop products to reach students in the USA. Eventually ended up taking a page from Michael Hartl's business model and released a version of my books here:
http://lsathacks.com/explanations/
Now a lot of people find my site and I get tutoring requests organically. I'm about to do nine hours today (I just consult Saturdays).
Not everyone should do this of course – it's a lot of work to create your own product or marketing platform. Local work of mouth and advertising is SO much easier.
But for anyone considering a transition abroad, think about reaching prospects who google solutions.
The only way I got around this was by building my own platform that brought in clients. I teach the LSAT, and chose to live in Montreal. It's French, not a major city for English speaking law school admissions.
NYC is the major market. I would have been booked solid if I lived there. But I likely also would have hit a local maximum, doing lots of $200 an hour tutoring and teaching $1200 classroom courses.
Instead, I had to develop products to reach students in the USA. Eventually ended up taking a page from Michael Hartl's business model and released a version of my books here:
http://lsathacks.com/explanations/
Now a lot of people find my site and I get tutoring requests organically. I'm about to do nine hours today (I just consult Saturdays).
Not everyone should do this of course – it's a lot of work to create your own product or marketing platform. Local work of mouth and advertising is SO much easier.
But for anyone considering a transition abroad, think about reaching prospects who google solutions.
Hey, just wondernig how your model works. I'm an SAT tutor and want to implement something similar. So you give away the explanations for free online, and charge for PDF? And get tutoring opportunities from the free book marketing. Do you teach online?
Eventually I'm going to make a course. Right now adding free explanations boosts the number of people who like and trust my material. I do sell the PDFs and get tutoring inquires from the site though.
This site does something simliar for the SAT, he has two well selling books as well:
http://pwnthesat.com/wp/
This site does something simliar for the SAT, he has two well selling books as well:
http://pwnthesat.com/wp/
thinking of going to vietnam for boostrapping burposes, just wondering how you chose it and what city? what kind of rent are u paying per month?
I came here about 3 years ago to train some iPhone devs for a friend's company. Ended up making a lot of friends out here in the process. Even though it's mostly an illusion, there is a certain sense of freedom here. It's also the safest of the SE Asian countries, imho.
I live in a more upscale part of Saigon, so my rent isn't typical. But compared to what I was paying in NYC, it's not a lot. I pay $700 for a 2 bedroom in a high rise, about $100 for electricity. I have fiber internet, 40mbps, which is about $75 a month. 3G on my phone is about $5-10 a month. The sum of all of that is almost a quarter of what I was paying in NYC every month.
I live in a more upscale part of Saigon, so my rent isn't typical. But compared to what I was paying in NYC, it's not a lot. I pay $700 for a 2 bedroom in a high rise, about $100 for electricity. I have fiber internet, 40mbps, which is about $75 a month. 3G on my phone is about $5-10 a month. The sum of all of that is almost a quarter of what I was paying in NYC every month.
I'm living in Vietnam as well. Dalat is up in the mountains, has cool weather all year round, and is much cheaper than Saigon. A room for rent is about $100 per month, a Banh Mi roll is about 10 cents. The main disadvantage of living up there is that there is no programmer community. But, if you just need to sit in a room and code and save money, it's perfect! Also, the people are super friendly. :-) Best experience of my life.
My wife is from Dalat. Tied with Da Nang for my favorite city in Vietnam.
If you ever come down to Saigon or I head up to Dalat, let's grab a beer!
If you ever come down to Saigon or I head up to Dalat, let's grab a beer!
The point about the type of work you're willing to accept is critical. In my experience freelancing, the clients that pay the best and offer the best projects will want to meet you occasionally at least. They'll also want commitment of a number of regular hours.
So seeing as that's out the window you'll probably end up having to fill the in between good project time with jobs from Elance etc . Be prepared to deal with some horrible code :)
So seeing as that's out the window you'll probably end up having to fill the in between good project time with jobs from Elance etc . Be prepared to deal with some horrible code :)
My main clients all pay a monthly retainer for a block of my time. I don't do piecework through eLance or oDesk. My hourly rate puts my annual gross in the same range as my friends in Silicon Valley.
If you want to do projects from scratch or work for startups that's a different situation, and you probably would need to participate with a team. For the kind of work I do it's not important where I am or what I'm wearing.
If you want to do projects from scratch or work for startups that's a different situation, and you probably would need to participate with a team. For the kind of work I do it's not important where I am or what I'm wearing.
As a counter-example, I've only ever met half of my clients in person. The work is definitely interesting and rewarding, leagues beyond anything I would ever find on Elance.
I think the important thing is to make a human connection... So that you and the client both feel like you're working with another human, and not just some online persona. Meeting in person certainly helps, but so do Skype calls and some personal banter (but keep it professional).
Although I work state-side and only went overseas once while "on the clock," I could grab my 25L backpack, leave tomorrow, and spend the week working from Colombia without any problems.
I think the important thing is to make a human connection... So that you and the client both feel like you're working with another human, and not just some online persona. Meeting in person certainly helps, but so do Skype calls and some personal banter (but keep it professional).
Although I work state-side and only went overseas once while "on the clock," I could grab my 25L backpack, leave tomorrow, and spend the week working from Colombia without any problems.
I took a contract with a company that had a profitable and almost-working web-based business. They had fired their original developers over a contract dispute.
He's right about the high demand for maintenance contracts. The majority of my client base comes from this exact story.
In fact, you can make a lot of money just finding a bad or prima-dona developer that specializes in the same technologies as you, and cleaning up the wake of destruction they create.
He's right about the high demand for maintenance contracts. The majority of my client base comes from this exact story.
In fact, you can make a lot of money just finding a bad or prima-dona developer that specializes in the same technologies as you, and cleaning up the wake of destruction they create.
Exactly. The startup tech bros are just a job creation scheme for me.
>There are agencies and recruiters who specialize in matching freelancers with projects, seek them out and establish a relationship.
Can anyone here make some recommendations from experience?
I feel like I'd need to be a 'rockstarninjahacker' before taking remote jobs and being able to complete them (and demand enough to pay for this lifestyle)
Can anyone here make some recommendations from experience?
I feel like I'd need to be a 'rockstarninjahacker' before taking remote jobs and being able to complete them (and demand enough to pay for this lifestyle)
Can't help you with the first one.
But feeling like you need to be a rockstarninjahacker is garbage. Many of my clients have no idea how to evaluate my code. The question is - can you get it done? On time? At price? to get to that point - it's do we trust you? Working on your communication skills will probably get you much further than improving your technical skills for finding/keeping freelance work.
But feeling like you need to be a rockstarninjahacker is garbage. Many of my clients have no idea how to evaluate my code. The question is - can you get it done? On time? At price? to get to that point - it's do we trust you? Working on your communication skills will probably get you much further than improving your technical skills for finding/keeping freelance work.
I run one of such agencies. We are 100% remote. If you are interested contact me at [email protected].
FYI if you are perpetual traveler and stay less than 3/6 months in every country, you won't be tax resident anywhere which means no taxes at all. Doesn't work for US citizens. (I'm Russian who travels for last 3 years and I don't owe taxes to any country)
Most European countries won't allow you to change your place of residence without sufficient documentation of your residence in a different country, e.g. work permits, proof of residence in new country, etc. Otherwise it would be all to easy to skip on paying taxes in your home country.
Perhaps in Russia it's a bit... easier?
Perhaps in Russia it's a bit... easier?
It is easy, just not all people know about it. Rule is simple - not be tax resident and spend < 6 months in your home country. Other proofs aren't enforced afaik. It's how it works in Russia.
You are largely relying on just not being caught. Have you asked a tax advisor about this?
There's entire movement of perpetual travelers and laws clearly state it's legal.
I am familiar with PTs and I have been traveling since 2007.
It might be perfectly legal for Russian nationals. Since I am not Russian, I do not know with certainty, which is why I ask if you had checked with an expert.
It might be perfectly legal for Russian nationals. Since I am not Russian, I do not know with certainty, which is why I ask if you had checked with an expert.
Doesn't work for Swedish citizens either.
To avoid Swedish tax, you have to either pay taxes in the country you are living in or prove that you no longer have any lasting connection to Sweden (no partner or children there, no house or apartment and no ownership in any companies).
To avoid Swedish tax, you have to either pay taxes in the country you are living in or prove that you no longer have any lasting connection to Sweden (no partner or children there, no house or apartment and no ownership in any companies).
> or prove that you no longer have any lasting connection to Sweden (no partner or children there, no house or apartment and no ownership in any companies).
Which is not hard at all: Don't have kids there, house or ownership. And you're free from taxes
Which is not hard at all: Don't have kids there, house or ownership. And you're free from taxes
Well, I have to keep my company there, which makes it pretty hard for me...
But you are right that it doesn't seem to hard, so I looked into it some more. I think the main problem would be to prove that you are not living in Sweden (the burden of proof is on you for the first 5 years). It seems that the requirement for not permanently living in Sweden is to permanently live somewhere else - perpetually traveling the world doesn't seem to be enough, you have to prove that you are a resident somewhere else, usually by applying for residence and paying taxes there...
But you are right that it doesn't seem to hard, so I looked into it some more. I think the main problem would be to prove that you are not living in Sweden (the burden of proof is on you for the first 5 years). It seems that the requirement for not permanently living in Sweden is to permanently live somewhere else - perpetually traveling the world doesn't seem to be enough, you have to prove that you are a resident somewhere else, usually by applying for residence and paying taxes there...
This probably doesn't work in most countries...Canada also requires you to be a resident of SOME country.
It works in all countries afaik. "you stay in Canada for less than 183 days in the tax year." makes you non-resident.
Interesting. I can't find the exact literature since the wording is not clear to me but I think you may be correct. Being less than 183 days in Canada and NOT receiving any income in Canada, makes you a non-resident that doesn't have to pay Canadian taxes.
[1] - http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/rsdncy-eng.html [2] - http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/nnrs-eng.html#tx...
[1] - http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/rsdncy-eng.html [2] - http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/nnrs-eng.html#tx...
Yes, this is correct. I'm in this situation (not a 'nomad', but a Canadian expat with no Canadian income) and don't have to pay taxes or file a tax return in Canada.
I don't know the exact details, but I remember hearing quite a few people here in Ontario talking about coming back once or twice a year to maintain their OHIP health coverage.
One thing successful freelancers often suggest about starting out is emailing people, selling them solutions on how their site could be fixed / made better. So far, it hasn't worked for me at all. I contacted various real estate people, from their websites and mailed them why having a sleek and responsive look matters and how I can deliver it but didn't got response from any of them.
May be it stems from the fact that I don't live in the same country as theirs or their skepticism about my claims but I am interested in knowing how exactly this thing works and where I am wrong?
May be it stems from the fact that I don't live in the same country as theirs or their skepticism about my claims but I am interested in knowing how exactly this thing works and where I am wrong?
I tried this when first starting out. I realized I was selling solutions to problems business owners didn't realize they had.
To sell to real estate agents, you need to figure out what problems real estate agents think they have. They consider how those problems, or perceived problems, can be solved with your skills.
(I don't mean "perceived problems" as a pejorative. It's often difficult to know in advance what will actually be of business value)
To sell to real estate agents, you need to figure out what problems real estate agents think they have. They consider how those problems, or perceived problems, can be solved with your skills.
(I don't mean "perceived problems" as a pejorative. It's often difficult to know in advance what will actually be of business value)
I've taken screenshots of PHP/MySQL/ASP error pages and sent them to the owner of the site, telling them I can fix the problem. I've had a low but not terrible response to that approach, and I got a couple of my long-term clients that way.
It's hard to convince someone to buy something when they're not looking for a solution.
Try looking at job postings and filtering down by jobs that have been open for an extended period of time (while means they might be hard to fill). Figure out who the hiring manger is for the position and reach out to them (you won't have much luck if you go through HR).
Try looking at job postings and filtering down by jobs that have been open for an extended period of time (while means they might be hard to fill). Figure out who the hiring manger is for the position and reach out to them (you won't have much luck if you go through HR).
>So far, it hasn't worked for me at all. I contacted various real estate people, from their websites and mailed them why having a sleek and responsive look matters and how I can deliver it but didn't got response from any of them.
Could be the pitch. Reak estate agents don't care for buzzwords like "responsive" (like they didn't care for "HTML5" or "semantic"), and they might think they are already sleek enough (especially if they get the number of customers they want through those sites).
As a (infrequent) user of real estate sites I also could not care less for responsive (I won't search for a house from my phone, and most any site designed for the desktop looks good as is in my iPad too) or sleek (just show me the facts I need and some good pictures of the real estate).
They could be persuaded if they have business benefits from the change. And perhaps real estate guys already do well. Perhaps check some business with a bad website that doesn't do as well -- where a better site could make a different.
Could be the pitch. Reak estate agents don't care for buzzwords like "responsive" (like they didn't care for "HTML5" or "semantic"), and they might think they are already sleek enough (especially if they get the number of customers they want through those sites).
As a (infrequent) user of real estate sites I also could not care less for responsive (I won't search for a house from my phone, and most any site designed for the desktop looks good as is in my iPad too) or sleek (just show me the facts I need and some good pictures of the real estate).
They could be persuaded if they have business benefits from the change. And perhaps real estate guys already do well. Perhaps check some business with a bad website that doesn't do as well -- where a better site could make a different.
I have no idea why this comment was downvoted. This is solid advice.
Out of curiosity: why does it matter?
Nice list. I would only add three advices to stay productive:
- stay at each place for minimum of three weeks. It takes some time to find stores, internet connectivity, meet people etc...
- make list of stuff you are not going to do, it simplifies your choices.
- consider to travel with luggage. I carry old 22" display in my :-)
- stay at each place for minimum of three weeks. It takes some time to find stores, internet connectivity, meet people etc...
- make list of stuff you are not going to do, it simplifies your choices.
- consider to travel with luggage. I carry old 22" display in my :-)
it's a given, if you read a post like this, it'll be about Thailand in some way.
also a pretty good chance the words “work permit” won’t appear in the article anywhere.
just because you don’t agree with certain laws, doesnt mean you can just ignore them.
just because you don’t agree with certain laws, doesnt mean you can just ignore them.
I didn't use the term "work permit" but I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..."
The laws around digital nomads, to say nothing of enforcement, have never been clear in Thailand. Bans on foreigners working in any country are intended to prevent foreigners taking jobs away from locals. Digital nomads don't do that.
As it turns out just this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici...
You still need a visa, of course.
The laws around digital nomads, to say nothing of enforcement, have never been clear in Thailand. Bans on foreigners working in any country are intended to prevent foreigners taking jobs away from locals. Digital nomads don't do that.
As it turns out just this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici...
You still need a visa, of course.
> I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..."
In context, you are clearly talking about working for local companies. In countries like Thailand, it's illegal to work in any way (even volunteering falls into this category in Thailand) without a valid visa and work permit.
> have never been clear in Thailand
That's disingenuous at best. Its never been "ideal" but it's always been clear - if you want to work, you need a visa + work permit. That people working "online" for foreign entities have largely slipped through the cracks is irrelevant. Speeding isn't legal or "unclear" just because you don't get caught every time.
> this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:
Since i first started looking at the options for working in Thailand about 2 1/2 years ago (and moved here ~ 2 years ago) I've read numerous articles about these announcements from provincial immigration staff, only to have them either "clarified" to mean something different, or outright denied as being incorrect.
In context, you are clearly talking about working for local companies. In countries like Thailand, it's illegal to work in any way (even volunteering falls into this category in Thailand) without a valid visa and work permit.
> have never been clear in Thailand
That's disingenuous at best. Its never been "ideal" but it's always been clear - if you want to work, you need a visa + work permit. That people working "online" for foreign entities have largely slipped through the cracks is irrelevant. Speeding isn't legal or "unclear" just because you don't get caught every time.
> this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand:
Since i first started looking at the options for working in Thailand about 2 1/2 years ago (and moved here ~ 2 years ago) I've read numerous articles about these announcements from provincial immigration staff, only to have them either "clarified" to mean something different, or outright denied as being incorrect.
You are right that any kind of work in Thailand, including volunteer work, requires a work permit. But you are leaving out the big gray area in Thailand between the law and what actually happens. That gray area is small or non-existent in America or Europe.
In Thailand pornography and sex toys and prostitution are all illegal, but visibly sold on the main tourist streets. In Thailand driving without a license will get you a small fine ($6 to $12), and a receipt to show you paid in case you get stopped in the next 24 hours. In Thailand there are numerous digital nomad get-togethers and communities and co-working spaces full of farang with their laptops, operating openly. The many language schools routinely employ part-time teachers who don't have proper visas and work permits.
As an American I've been trained to obey the law, and I understand that breaking the law leads to well-defined penalties (unless I'm a banker or a politician). Thais, on the other hand, treat the law (and road markings) as suggestions, with penalties that have flexible and often on-the-spot enforcement denominated in baht. So while you are right about what the law says, the reality of how it's interpreted and enforced are more important in Thailand.
In Thailand pornography and sex toys and prostitution are all illegal, but visibly sold on the main tourist streets. In Thailand driving without a license will get you a small fine ($6 to $12), and a receipt to show you paid in case you get stopped in the next 24 hours. In Thailand there are numerous digital nomad get-togethers and communities and co-working spaces full of farang with their laptops, operating openly. The many language schools routinely employ part-time teachers who don't have proper visas and work permits.
As an American I've been trained to obey the law, and I understand that breaking the law leads to well-defined penalties (unless I'm a banker or a politician). Thais, on the other hand, treat the law (and road markings) as suggestions, with penalties that have flexible and often on-the-spot enforcement denominated in baht. So while you are right about what the law says, the reality of how it's interpreted and enforced are more important in Thailand.
> In Thailand pornography and sex toys and prostitution are all illegal, but visibly sold on the main tourist streets. In Thailand driving without a license will get you a small fine ($6 to $12)
It's different. You've just listed laws that the Thais do not enforce. The no-work-permit for a foreigner is a law that would be enforced should you be caught.
It's different. You've just listed laws that the Thais do not enforce. The no-work-permit for a foreigner is a law that would be enforced should you be caught.
I'm well aware that many laws are not enforced well if at all in Thailand, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Generalising about 70 million people as if they are all the same isn't a great way to identify as anything other than a middle-aged farrang who wants a young brown girl(s) in his bed.
Generalising about 70 million people as if they are all the same isn't a great way to identify as anything other than a middle-aged farrang who wants a young brown girl(s) in his bed.
Wow, great ad hominem attack. I didn't say the laws don't exist -- I acknowledged that. How you went from my observations of life in Thailand to calling me a sexpat says something about you. That wasn't part of anything I wrote.
If anyone wants to read more of this kind of thing there's an entire forum for know-it-all expat jerks called ThaiVisa.com.
Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.
If anyone wants to read more of this kind of thing there's an entire forum for know-it-all expat jerks called ThaiVisa.com.
Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.
> I didn't say the laws don't exist
No but you suggested that they can be treated as non existent because of lax enforcement/punishment, and then go on to complain about other people (apparently an entire country at that!) not following them - if you don't agree the laws should be followed, why are you complaining about other people not following them?
> How you went from my observations of life in Thailand to calling me a sexpat says something about you
It's generally sexpats who come to Thailand for some "brown strange", make no effort to learn anything about the culture or the people, and make sweeping generalisations, exactly like you have done.
> Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.
The irony here is at level: ridiculous. Have you ever met any Thai people and actually spoken to them?
Let me make it crystal clear in case you can't work it out:
Not every Thai is a bad driver
Not every Thai flaunts laws/rules
Not every Thai enjoys or can even eat spicy food
Not every Thai is just a poor brown girl/boy waiting for a "rich" white prince to make her/his life better.
No but you suggested that they can be treated as non existent because of lax enforcement/punishment, and then go on to complain about other people (apparently an entire country at that!) not following them - if you don't agree the laws should be followed, why are you complaining about other people not following them?
> How you went from my observations of life in Thailand to calling me a sexpat says something about you
It's generally sexpats who come to Thailand for some "brown strange", make no effort to learn anything about the culture or the people, and make sweeping generalisations, exactly like you have done.
> Maybe I'm generalizing about the Thai attitude about the law, but you can observe it every day all over Thailand. It's no more a generalization than saying Thais like spicy food.
The irony here is at level: ridiculous. Have you ever met any Thai people and actually spoken to them?
Let me make it crystal clear in case you can't work it out:
Not every Thai is a bad driver
Not every Thai flaunts laws/rules
Not every Thai enjoys or can even eat spicy food
Not every Thai is just a poor brown girl/boy waiting for a "rich" white prince to make her/his life better.
I give up. You win. I should have disclosed that I have never met a Thai person or spoken to one since I've been living here. And I've never driven here or seen any Thais driving. I've never seen any Thais flaunt the laws, or eat spicy food. In fact the only people I've met in Thailand have been drunk middle-aged men on Soi Cowboy looking for "brown strange."
Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English. I am not equipped to understand or respond to the close reading and careful parsing of language stephenr has demonstrated.
Actually I've never even been to Thailand, I made everything up. Kudos to stephenr for deducing so much from my comments and exposing me, calling me out on my delusions, and setting the record straight.
Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English. I am not equipped to understand or respond to the close reading and careful parsing of language stephenr has demonstrated.
Actually I've never even been to Thailand, I made everything up. Kudos to stephenr for deducing so much from my comments and exposing me, calling me out on my delusions, and setting the record straight.
> I've never driven here or seen any Thais driving. I've never seen any Thais flaunt the laws, or eat spicy food.
You didn't claim to have "seen this". You claimed "everyone does it". This would be like me claiming all americans insist on cheese with every meal and get confused between Austria and Australia.
> Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English
I'm commenting on your posts, and my own observations of life in Thailand. Several times you've made broad generalisations about various topics in Thailand, all of which are demonstrably false.
When I called you on said generalisation, you proceeded to make ANOTHER generalisation. How do you expect people to react to that?
You didn't claim to have "seen this". You claimed "everyone does it". This would be like me claiming all americans insist on cheese with every meal and get confused between Austria and Australia.
> Also I can't read or "work out" what smarter and better-informed people like stephenr mean, I need it spelled out, in English
I'm commenting on your posts, and my own observations of life in Thailand. Several times you've made broad generalisations about various topics in Thailand, all of which are demonstrably false.
When I called you on said generalisation, you proceeded to make ANOTHER generalisation. How do you expect people to react to that?
[deleted]
So lets say you are a manager for a normal 9-to-5 company, and head to Thailand on vacation. If you receive a phone call from work would that technically be illegal since you are doing your paid work from a thai beach?
I get that you are trying to push the example to the extreme, but it's hardly the same situation.
For a more realistic example: it is perfectly legal for a foreigner to come to Thailand on a business visa (without a work permit) for the purpose of meetings. There is even a specific 3 year (vs regular 1 year) business visa that is specifically designed for this situation (it cannot be used to get a work permit).
For a more realistic example: it is perfectly legal for a foreigner to come to Thailand on a business visa (without a work permit) for the purpose of meetings. There is even a specific 3 year (vs regular 1 year) business visa that is specifically designed for this situation (it cannot be used to get a work permit).
Wouldn't Thailand lose out by not allowing digital nomads to work there? What they contribute to the economy by staying there they would otherwise be forced to spend in a different country. So what is the law saying that you're not allowed to perform any "work" while you're in the country supposed to achieve, assuming you are not taking any jobs from locals?
The reality is more likely simply history - the Thai immigration system hasn't caught up with the 21st century.
The "traditional" situation is evident in other things too - for a marriage visa, there is a means test ($/month income or $$ in a bank account) - the amount required is vastly more for foreign men (marrying thai women) than it is for women (marrying thai men).
In terms of a theoretical "this is intentional" answer - I don't know, because I don't actually know what the average "digital nomad" would spend large amounts of money on - I'm living basically as a resident, I haven't left the country in 9 months, we have a car, imported our dog, etc.
The "traditional" situation is evident in other things too - for a marriage visa, there is a means test ($/month income or $$ in a bank account) - the amount required is vastly more for foreign men (marrying thai women) than it is for women (marrying thai men).
In terms of a theoretical "this is intentional" answer - I don't know, because I don't actually know what the average "digital nomad" would spend large amounts of money on - I'm living basically as a resident, I haven't left the country in 9 months, we have a car, imported our dog, etc.
So in this case, what's wrong with breaking this law if it doesn't hurt anyone and is actually _good_ for the country's economy to do so?
>As it turns out just this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand
That was one officer in Chiang Mai and he's been corrected since.
That was one officer in Chiang Mai and he's been corrected since.
Yup. As it happens, Thailand's currently doing one of its periodic crackdown on tourist visa abuse:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-vis...
And it's actually quite difficult to do remote work or establish permanent residence legally in Thailand:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thai...
http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-vis...
And it's actually quite difficult to do remote work or establish permanent residence legally in Thailand:
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thai...
The General just announced on the public television yesterday that he told the Immigration Bureau to be flexible on the Visa runs[1][2] citing lack of English teachers and academics. They're currently looking for solutions and even though I'm Thai, I really hope to hear a good news on this.
Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though.
[1]: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bur...
[2]: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-burea...
Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though.
[1]: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bur...
[2]: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-burea...
> Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though
Probably just the most visible. From what I understand, plenty of schools rely on foreign english teachers but aren't prepared to hire them legally.
I'm still not really sure why they don't go the legal route - maybe the extra effort involved, or maybe because they want to pay less than the mandated minimum salary for foreigners.
For those not familiar, minimum salary is not standard across the board in Thailand, it depends on nationality. For most "western" foreigners it's 50K THB/month, whereas for Thai citizens it's about 9K THB/month.
Probably just the most visible. From what I understand, plenty of schools rely on foreign english teachers but aren't prepared to hire them legally.
I'm still not really sure why they don't go the legal route - maybe the extra effort involved, or maybe because they want to pay less than the mandated minimum salary for foreigners.
For those not familiar, minimum salary is not standard across the board in Thailand, it depends on nationality. For most "western" foreigners it's 50K THB/month, whereas for Thai citizens it's about 9K THB/month.
Stickman's audience is not really digital nomads. Just look at the ads and the bar (and bar girl) reviews.
Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops, it's easier than most places. The crackdown is mostly aimed at migrant laborers from Cambodia and Myanmar, and at backpackers who spend their time in Thailand drinking and smoking pot.
Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops, it's easier than most places. The crackdown is mostly aimed at migrant laborers from Cambodia and Myanmar, and at backpackers who spend their time in Thailand drinking and smoking pot.
> Stickman's audience is not really digital nomads
That's an understatement if I've ever heard one.
I skimmed the linked page and this little gem jumped out:
"Some support a Thai partner and kids, perhaps their own kids, perhaps their partner's from a previous relationship. Throughout Pattaya, Isaan and the north thousands, maybe tens of thousands, fit this profile - and they could be shut out."
I dont profess to be an expert on all things Thai, but after 2 years here, that sentence tells me plenty. You could equally describe exactly the same group of foreigners with much fewer words: "retiree sexpat".
> Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops
This is absolutely true. I went through the process while the protests + failed election were going on, and the biggest hassle was departments being closed/relocated, and road closures while heading to meetings with our lawyer in BKK.
That's an understatement if I've ever heard one.
I skimmed the linked page and this little gem jumped out:
"Some support a Thai partner and kids, perhaps their own kids, perhaps their partner's from a previous relationship. Throughout Pattaya, Isaan and the north thousands, maybe tens of thousands, fit this profile - and they could be shut out."
I dont profess to be an expert on all things Thai, but after 2 years here, that sentence tells me plenty. You could equally describe exactly the same group of foreigners with much fewer words: "retiree sexpat".
> Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops
This is absolutely true. I went through the process while the protests + failed election were going on, and the biggest hassle was departments being closed/relocated, and road closures while heading to meetings with our lawyer in BKK.
And they don't have to.
The work he does doesn't relate to Thailand at all. Do you think if someone is going to stay in Thailand for 2 weeks and work online, they'll going to get a work visa? For what? Where's a company? People? Office? For 2 weeks? And they'll have to do the same thing for any country they go? That's bunk!
He doesn't break a law working online! unless he receives money to a Thai bank.
The work he does doesn't relate to Thailand at all. Do you think if someone is going to stay in Thailand for 2 weeks and work online, they'll going to get a work visa? For what? Where's a company? People? Office? For 2 weeks? And they'll have to do the same thing for any country they go? That's bunk!
He doesn't break a law working online! unless he receives money to a Thai bank.
Sorry but you are wrong. Thai law states that conducting any work requires a work permit. It "relates" to Thailand because the person is physically located in Thailand.
1) And what Thai law consider work exactly?
2) According to you, if a businessman comes to Thailand to rest for 2 weeks and decided to do some work for one day on his laptop (which he brought with him) then he'll become a criminal and can be taken to a jail.
3) According to you, millions of people break this law every day: they come from their countries to other country and once they reply or send an email (or something like that) - they are criminals!!!
2) According to you, if a businessman comes to Thailand to rest for 2 weeks and decided to do some work for one day on his laptop (which he brought with him) then he'll become a criminal and can be taken to a jail.
3) According to you, millions of people break this law every day: they come from their countries to other country and once they reply or send an email (or something like that) - they are criminals!!!
I don't remember the exact phrase off the top of my head but it's basically a generic description to describe someone exerting energy to do something - e.g. even foreigners who want to volunteer in Thailand need a work permit to do so.
Not according to me. The law says what it says. The chances of being arrested for working one day while on holiday are pretty much zero, but technically it's still a breach of the law.
Even someone who comes for a month and works every day has very little chance of being caught or even being an issue the police would be concerned about/investigating, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is legal.
You seem to somehow think that because this law is in place in Thailand, I'm suggesting it is in place elsewhere? Why? I never mentioned any country but Thailand.
Not according to me. The law says what it says. The chances of being arrested for working one day while on holiday are pretty much zero, but technically it's still a breach of the law.
Even someone who comes for a month and works every day has very little chance of being caught or even being an issue the police would be concerned about/investigating, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is legal.
You seem to somehow think that because this law is in place in Thailand, I'm suggesting it is in place elsewhere? Why? I never mentioned any country but Thailand.
1) So if I make a coffee for myself while I'm in Thailand - I do an illegal work in Thailand?
2) Why not? That's exactly according to you. If not, tell me what it is that goes against your definition.
3) Because in !every country! in order to work you need a work visa unless this is your home country.
2) Why not? That's exactly according to you. If not, tell me what it is that goes against your definition.
3) Because in !every country! in order to work you need a work visa unless this is your home country.
Why Thailand? Low cost of living?
If you look at my previous post you'll see some more details but basically it boils down to friendlier, happier people, lower cost of living/higher standard of living, better weather, better and cheaper health services compared to the rest of SE Asia especially and some western countries in particular.
Also, and this is a big point I have to add, it's easy enough to get around with basic english here unlike China for example.
Also, and this is a big point I have to add, it's easy enough to get around with basic english here unlike China for example.
The "get around with basic english" part might be true if you live like a tourist and don't venture outside of Bangkok/Pattaya/Phuket/Chiang Mai.. some parts of the country are surprised just to see a westerner, much less have any chance of speaking english. I say this not to disparage them in any way (it's their country after all), simply as an observation.
To the parent: for some (particularly either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men) the attraction is likely somewhat related to what they do besides work.
To the parent: for some (particularly either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men) the attraction is likely somewhat related to what they do besides work.
You can add Cha Am and Hua Hin to that list also. Much nicer places to live in Thailand than the list above.
Once again I am sucked in by a troll and his dictionary.
You caught me by surprise. I actually expected the trolling to be about my choice of a MacBook or mentioning I use vim. Live and learn.
You caught me by surprise. I actually expected the trolling to be about my choice of a MacBook or mentioning I use vim. Live and learn.
What the fuck are you talking about?
It's well known that the parts of Thailand frequented by tourists have a much higher percentage of people who "can" speak english. By "can" I mean are technically able to, and feel confident enough to.
It's well known that the parts of Thailand frequented by tourists have a much higher percentage of people who "can" speak english. By "can" I mean are technically able to, and feel confident enough to.
Good generalization of the approximately 500,000 expats living in Thailand. You are perpetuating the sex tourist stereotype that is just as disparaging to Thais as it is to the sexpat.
Can you not read? Did you not see the word "some"?
> "at least a small amount or number of people or things"
Edit: furthermore, if you think that the presence of sexpats, or the way some Thai people are "attracted" to them/their wallets, is disparaging to NORMAL Thai people, you are deluded.
I don't ever remember anyone ever saying all American women are gold diggers because of Anna Nicole Smith's antics.
> "at least a small amount or number of people or things"
Edit: furthermore, if you think that the presence of sexpats, or the way some Thai people are "attracted" to them/their wallets, is disparaging to NORMAL Thai people, you are deluded.
I don't ever remember anyone ever saying all American women are gold diggers because of Anna Nicole Smith's antics.
Just like everyone that visits Amsterdam is either getting high, looking for a prostitute or both? This place has gotten worse than reddit...
> This place has gotten worse than reddit...
Why, is that populated with people who can't comprehend English too?
Please lookup the definition of the word "some".
Why, is that populated with people who can't comprehend English too?
Please lookup the definition of the word "some".
Some younger, middle-aged or older unattached men turns out to be a generalization about the majority of men. Actually reddit is a compliment, it's worse than 4chan.
"Some" specifically means a small or unknown number of something, not "the majority of" something.
"either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men" implies either men in their late teens/early twenties or men 40+.
I guess it was too much to expect people to actually understand what words mean.
"either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men" implies either men in their late teens/early twenties or men 40+.
I guess it was too much to expect people to actually understand what words mean.
i graduated in May and made becoming a digital nomad a goal of mine.
I'm surprised by the number of people that try to get clients, as far as reaching out to "random" real estate agencies for work.
Out of curiosity, what makes that the preferred way over trying to get a single employer that allows you to work remotely part-time?
I agree that it might be slightly more difficult initially, but IMO it's worth it as you don't have to deal with having to get new clients, manage with your current ones. I actually got really lucky that I find my company as it put enough faith in me as a recent college grad.
IMO, the only reason for me to take on new clients is for a significantly higher rate?
I'm surprised by the number of people that try to get clients, as far as reaching out to "random" real estate agencies for work.
Out of curiosity, what makes that the preferred way over trying to get a single employer that allows you to work remotely part-time?
I agree that it might be slightly more difficult initially, but IMO it's worth it as you don't have to deal with having to get new clients, manage with your current ones. I actually got really lucky that I find my company as it put enough faith in me as a recent college grad.
IMO, the only reason for me to take on new clients is for a significantly higher rate?
High there! I'm a CTO at ever-growing fully remote company (every single employee is remote). While I have no doubt you can find a company willing to hire you as a digital nomad, I definitely have a bunch of reservations about it.
We've had folks on the move quite a bit in the past (including traveling around in an RV). The biggest issue is that they tend not to be quite as plugged in as everyone else. Internet connections always seem to be spotty and there always seems to be other issues tugging at their attention (finding places to work, exploring, etc..).
That doesn't mean they produced bad work (often it was very good), but it came at the expense of the rest of the team. When we needed them to answer a question or hop into a quick discussion they often weren't around. It's just a bad dynamic as far as the rest of the team goes.
We do hire contractors for very specific and targeted projects. In that mode nomads are just fine! They don't need to fit into the broader team in a meaningful way and there is no expectation that they will. They come in for a few weeks or months and then move on. It works well and both sides are really happy with the arrangement.
Point being, you might have better luck both finding a job and being successful at it if you're looking less for full-time roles and more for contract positions that complement the type of lifestyle you want to pursue.
We've had folks on the move quite a bit in the past (including traveling around in an RV). The biggest issue is that they tend not to be quite as plugged in as everyone else. Internet connections always seem to be spotty and there always seems to be other issues tugging at their attention (finding places to work, exploring, etc..).
That doesn't mean they produced bad work (often it was very good), but it came at the expense of the rest of the team. When we needed them to answer a question or hop into a quick discussion they often weren't around. It's just a bad dynamic as far as the rest of the team goes.
We do hire contractors for very specific and targeted projects. In that mode nomads are just fine! They don't need to fit into the broader team in a meaningful way and there is no expectation that they will. They come in for a few weeks or months and then move on. It works well and both sides are really happy with the arrangement.
Point being, you might have better luck both finding a job and being successful at it if you're looking less for full-time roles and more for contract positions that complement the type of lifestyle you want to pursue.
The thought of sitting in a beach hut somewhere warm and sunny, typing away on a MacBook, does certainly sound very appealing. The rest of it - washing your bland travel clothes in a hotel shower with "hotel shampoo" - would surely grow pretty tiresome after a month or two, if you're in any way used to and appreciative of a comfortable lifestyle.
I write this from my "three monitors and a special chair" (quite literally) and I will, in fact, be writing some "brand-new Python code" later...
(I'm also fascinated by this guy's predilection for doing maintenance work and fixing broken projects - I can hardly imagine anything worse!)