Why I Don't Drink(neal.is)
neal.is
Why I Don't Drink
http://www.neal.is/blogging/why-I-dont-drink
18 comments
I was about to post the same thing. A glass of wine with dinner, for example, can enormously enhance the experience without any of the downsides that he mentions. Not that I care if people don't drink, but several of the arguments were pretty spurious.
> A glass of wine with dinner, for example, can enormously enhance the experience
Can you explain how exactly? Is it just greater social ease as the author suggests in the article? I'm intrigued, I don't drink wine and hardly ever have a beer while eating.
Can you explain how exactly? Is it just greater social ease as the author suggests in the article? I'm intrigued, I don't drink wine and hardly ever have a beer while eating.
Its a southern European culture - wine goes well with some tastes and since wine vapours a lot it delivers taste also to your nose. Beer is usually used only with fatty/heavy foods as it helps to dissolve them and stimulates stomach to work harder (that would be mainly German/Irish kitchen).
for you. Not everybody reacts to alcohol the same way.
The author's not telling you not to drink, he's just explaining why he doesn't. It's OK for some of those reasons to be against specific kinds of drinking he doesn't want to engage in.
None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drink, though. Which of his bullet points explain the pros and cons of wine with dinner vs. not having wine with dinner?
> None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drin
Doesn't it?
[1] > It makes me feel bleh.
Heck I would stop there. "Why don't you like ham and cheese sandwiches?" "It makes me feel bleh...". Ok case closed.
[2] > Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities.
That is a response to the American cultural expectation perhaps. "You will have more fun when you drink". Well and he doesn't seem to.
Neither do I, actually, I am just as introverted and awkward as when sober. But I do like the taste of some beers and wines. So I drink those once in a while.
[3] > It is expensive.
I don't know, we already have 3 good reasons. Alcohol in US _is_ ridiculously expensive due to taxes and regulations. Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said.
On a meta level, I guess, even discussing or thinking about seems odd. It is his personal preference, why does he need to explain himself? The fact that he does, and that we are using so many words to talk about it, also tells something interesting about how drinking culture is part of the culture and it is different perhaps countries, and that people feel strongly about it in one way or another.
Doesn't it?
[1] > It makes me feel bleh.
Heck I would stop there. "Why don't you like ham and cheese sandwiches?" "It makes me feel bleh...". Ok case closed.
[2] > Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities.
That is a response to the American cultural expectation perhaps. "You will have more fun when you drink". Well and he doesn't seem to.
Neither do I, actually, I am just as introverted and awkward as when sober. But I do like the taste of some beers and wines. So I drink those once in a while.
[3] > It is expensive.
I don't know, we already have 3 good reasons. Alcohol in US _is_ ridiculously expensive due to taxes and regulations. Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said.
On a meta level, I guess, even discussing or thinking about seems odd. It is his personal preference, why does he need to explain himself? The fact that he does, and that we are using so many words to talk about it, also tells something interesting about how drinking culture is part of the culture and it is different perhaps countries, and that people feel strongly about it in one way or another.
Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said.
"Per session"?! My point is that his article is ostensibly about why he doesn't drink at all, but his bullet points only legitimately apply to why you shouldn't have 20 drinks in an outing. Having one or two beers at a bar in the U.S. will not set you back $100 (it'd have to be a pretty weird bar). The fact that you don't want to spend $100 is a good reason not to order 20 beers, but not a good reason to avoid alcohol entirely. I don't like spending a lot when I go out either, but this doesn't prevent me from ordering a smallish number of beers. Heck, "why I don't go to bullshit white-tablecloth restaurants" would a better article if that's your main issue. When I think of peer-pressured outings that resulted in annoying overspending, $40 steaks figure a lot more heavily in the story than $5 beers do.
"Per session"?! My point is that his article is ostensibly about why he doesn't drink at all, but his bullet points only legitimately apply to why you shouldn't have 20 drinks in an outing. Having one or two beers at a bar in the U.S. will not set you back $100 (it'd have to be a pretty weird bar). The fact that you don't want to spend $100 is a good reason not to order 20 beers, but not a good reason to avoid alcohol entirely. I don't like spending a lot when I go out either, but this doesn't prevent me from ordering a smallish number of beers. Heck, "why I don't go to bullshit white-tablecloth restaurants" would a better article if that's your main issue. When I think of peer-pressured outings that resulted in annoying overspending, $40 steaks figure a lot more heavily in the story than $5 beers do.
That is just one of the points, not the main one.
In general, it depends where, how often, and with whom he goes out. It does add up even with comparing "dinner" vs "dinner+drinks". Dinner+drinks if done often will add to quite a bit over time.
Mixed drinks can be ridiculously expensive. Not keeping up with 4,5 drink per night, or not buying the next round for example, will also raise the same question "why aren't you drinking". He'd probably be back writing the same article just saying "I am sick of people asking me why I only drink 1 drink a night and not 3".
In general, it depends where, how often, and with whom he goes out. It does add up even with comparing "dinner" vs "dinner+drinks". Dinner+drinks if done often will add to quite a bit over time.
Mixed drinks can be ridiculously expensive. Not keeping up with 4,5 drink per night, or not buying the next round for example, will also raise the same question "why aren't you drinking". He'd probably be back writing the same article just saying "I am sick of people asking me why I only drink 1 drink a night and not 3".
It does add up even with comparing "dinner" vs "dinner+drinks".
I had that view semi-recently (a year or so ago): dinner+drinks is too expensive for my tastes. But I blame the "dinner" more than the "drinks" from a monetary perspective. Nowadays the usual arrangement among my friends & me is that we get together at someone's house, one of us cooks, then we go out for a few beers. The food is usually better, and we value the "bar outing" part of the atmosphere more than the "restaurant" part. So we save the $30-50 that the meal costs, which is a huge cash win, much more than saving the cost of a few beers would be.
But this is just an issue of where you want to spend your entertainment budget. I personally feel restaurant food is a huge ripoff, and that the ambience of a restaurant is not worth it. While I feel the $1-2 supermarket beer vs. $5-7 for a bar beer is a reasonable incremental price for the ambience. Maybe you feel drinks at bars are a huge ripoff, while restaurant meals are worth it. Spend your money as you wish either way! But then it just becomes an issue of personal budget preferences: I also think movies in theaters are huge ripoffs!
I had that view semi-recently (a year or so ago): dinner+drinks is too expensive for my tastes. But I blame the "dinner" more than the "drinks" from a monetary perspective. Nowadays the usual arrangement among my friends & me is that we get together at someone's house, one of us cooks, then we go out for a few beers. The food is usually better, and we value the "bar outing" part of the atmosphere more than the "restaurant" part. So we save the $30-50 that the meal costs, which is a huge cash win, much more than saving the cost of a few beers would be.
But this is just an issue of where you want to spend your entertainment budget. I personally feel restaurant food is a huge ripoff, and that the ambience of a restaurant is not worth it. While I feel the $1-2 supermarket beer vs. $5-7 for a bar beer is a reasonable incremental price for the ambience. Maybe you feel drinks at bars are a huge ripoff, while restaurant meals are worth it. Spend your money as you wish either way! But then it just becomes an issue of personal budget preferences: I also think movies in theaters are huge ripoffs!
$100 is certainly a bit on the high side, but I live somewhere where mixed drinks can cost $12 at nicer bars. Have 5 of those (not unreasonable if you go out around 6pm and stay out until 1-2am), throw in $15 worth of food (as the author mentioned), and you're up to $75. I tend not to go to bars that charge cover, but that could be anywhere from $5-$20, though usually if you arrive at a particular bar before 10pm or so, there's no cover charge.
So $100 may be slightly hyperbolic, but it can happen without too much difficulty, depending on your tastes. I happen to really enjoy Scotch, and whiskey in general. Go to a bar with a selection of mid- to high-end stuff, and that can run you $20+ per pour. I tend to drink them quite a bit slower, though.
But agreed that this doesn't answer why he doesn't drink at all, but is more an answer to the question of why he doesn't "go out drinking".
So $100 may be slightly hyperbolic, but it can happen without too much difficulty, depending on your tastes. I happen to really enjoy Scotch, and whiskey in general. Go to a bar with a selection of mid- to high-end stuff, and that can run you $20+ per pour. I tend to drink them quite a bit slower, though.
But agreed that this doesn't answer why he doesn't drink at all, but is more an answer to the question of why he doesn't "go out drinking".
He's not making an argument about nuanced tradeoffs, though. He's saying that he gets no benefit ("It makes me feel bleh", "Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities") and that there are some drawbacks for him ("It dumbs you down", "It's expensive"). You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his.
> You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his.
I can deny the author his unfounded generalizations, though. He's explaining why he doesn't like getting trashed, going out to a club and having a dozen drinks. All his bullet points are about that situation. Sure, I agree that is bad. It results in hangovers, feeling shitty, large expenditures of cash, and other such bad events. So: don't do that. But that's not a problem with alcohol, that's a problem with party/club culture.
But don't write an article about something different. If you're writing about why you've changed your ways from going out to clubs and getting hammered, entitle it "why I no longer go out to clubs and get hammered". Don't try to over-generalize your experience.
I can deny the author his unfounded generalizations, though. He's explaining why he doesn't like getting trashed, going out to a club and having a dozen drinks. All his bullet points are about that situation. Sure, I agree that is bad. It results in hangovers, feeling shitty, large expenditures of cash, and other such bad events. So: don't do that. But that's not a problem with alcohol, that's a problem with party/club culture.
But don't write an article about something different. If you're writing about why you've changed your ways from going out to clubs and getting hammered, entitle it "why I no longer go out to clubs and get hammered". Don't try to over-generalize your experience.
Not all the author's reasons have to with going out or party/club culture. Look no further than the first two points:
- It makes me feel bleh.
- Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities.
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I find it hard to believe a glass of wine matched with dinner does not increase enjoyment of the activity. I realise taste is acquired but for someone who already drinks wine surely this is ignorance.
I've seen someone order a $100 steak well-done. They may enjoy this meal, but they have no goddamn idea what they are missing.
I've seen someone order a $100 steak well-done. They may enjoy this meal, but they have no goddamn idea what they are missing.
In your case? Absolutely. In the average case? Probably. In his case? You have no way to know.
In my case, I don't like the taste of alcohol, to me it's very pungent. Also, I tend to run on the warmer side, and alcohol tends to heat me up even more. Therefore, for me, a glass of wine with dinner - "matched" or no - decreases my enjoyment of the activity.
In my case, I don't like the taste of alcohol, to me it's very pungent. Also, I tend to run on the warmer side, and alcohol tends to heat me up even more. Therefore, for me, a glass of wine with dinner - "matched" or no - decreases my enjoyment of the activity.
"It is expensive." is definitely relevant. If my fiancee and I go out for dinner and we each have a couple of drinks, the tab at least doubles.
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This is also my argument (100% serious) against restaurant meals: if I go out for a few drinks and get hungry enough to order some food, the tab at least doubles, sometimes triples (in Copenhagen, a burger costs as much as 3-5 beers). That's why it's important to learn to cook, so you can eat before going out and save significant money.
Everything in life is a skill - even drinking alcohol. While most of people think that drinking alcohol is only pleasure it can be amazing deal breaker and social skill needed in some situation.
I drink usually 3-4 times a week (not to get drunk, but few glasses of coke and whiskey or vodka). Does it make me dumber? Yes, but it also helps me to focus on just one task. My productivity jumps 3-4 times for that time.
Does it leave me hangover? No. There is a way to drink alcohol and never have hangover (in last year I had hangover just once).
Do I get drunk? No. There is a way to drink alcohol and stay in sweet spot. Mixing alcohol like a teenager dosent help.
Do I lose my social skills? No. Look up - if you know what you are doing you are the only one at the party that is semi-sober while drinking - so all the stories belong to you.
I remember back in the days when drinking didn't equal to alcoholism (hello Mr. Churchill), smoking cigarettes did not equal to cancer (hello anyone 50 years ago), and well behaving while intoxicated was an important indicator of persons self-control.
I rather to do a business with person that can stay cool after alcohol than with one that dont drink/behave like idiot after few drinks. Remember beginnings of some alcohol fuelled startups (FB, Google etc...). Thats the real character revealer in our "FB profile page" world.
I drink usually 3-4 times a week (not to get drunk, but few glasses of coke and whiskey or vodka). Does it make me dumber? Yes, but it also helps me to focus on just one task. My productivity jumps 3-4 times for that time.
Does it leave me hangover? No. There is a way to drink alcohol and never have hangover (in last year I had hangover just once).
Do I get drunk? No. There is a way to drink alcohol and stay in sweet spot. Mixing alcohol like a teenager dosent help.
Do I lose my social skills? No. Look up - if you know what you are doing you are the only one at the party that is semi-sober while drinking - so all the stories belong to you.
I remember back in the days when drinking didn't equal to alcoholism (hello Mr. Churchill), smoking cigarettes did not equal to cancer (hello anyone 50 years ago), and well behaving while intoxicated was an important indicator of persons self-control.
I rather to do a business with person that can stay cool after alcohol than with one that dont drink/behave like idiot after few drinks. Remember beginnings of some alcohol fuelled startups (FB, Google etc...). Thats the real character revealer in our "FB profile page" world.
I (an American) drink fairly often, and occasionally to excess. I have a fairly high tolerance, so usually I won't notice much of an effect until I'm drinking at a rate of greater than 2 drinks per hour, or, if I'm drinking slower than that, until I've had at 7+ drinks.
So it's not unusual for me to go out with some friends, have 5-7 drinks, and not "get drunk", only developing a slight buzz at most. As long as I'm matching each alcoholic drink with 1-1.5 glasses of water, I feel perfectly normal the next day. (I have noticed that, as I get older, I need to hydrate more and more to avoid a headache afterward. Annoying.)
On other occasions, I do enjoy drinking to a point where I'd consider myself very drunk. It's fun. Frankly, I'm mildly annoyed at the suggestion that the European method of drinking is somehow superior. It's just different. Possibly healthier, possibly safer, but I'll be damned if I let other people tell me how to enjoy myself[1].
I'm slightly tempted to write a follow-up article with, "why I don't participate in bro culture", based on this article's pervasive reference to clubs, "certain intoxicants", and other such questionable things the author appears to indulge in, but which seem stupid and harmful to me.
So wait, indulging in intoxicants other than alcohol makes you a "bro"? Damn, dude, check your holier-than-thou perceptions at the door and let people do their thing. I don't personally do any of the harder stuff, but I'm not going to condemn others if that makes them happy. I think you also have a very narrow-minded view as to what a "club" is and what types of people tend to frequent them (hint: the answer is "all different kinds").
[1] As long as my enjoyment isn't harming anyone else, anyway.
So it's not unusual for me to go out with some friends, have 5-7 drinks, and not "get drunk", only developing a slight buzz at most. As long as I'm matching each alcoholic drink with 1-1.5 glasses of water, I feel perfectly normal the next day. (I have noticed that, as I get older, I need to hydrate more and more to avoid a headache afterward. Annoying.)
On other occasions, I do enjoy drinking to a point where I'd consider myself very drunk. It's fun. Frankly, I'm mildly annoyed at the suggestion that the European method of drinking is somehow superior. It's just different. Possibly healthier, possibly safer, but I'll be damned if I let other people tell me how to enjoy myself[1].
I'm slightly tempted to write a follow-up article with, "why I don't participate in bro culture", based on this article's pervasive reference to clubs, "certain intoxicants", and other such questionable things the author appears to indulge in, but which seem stupid and harmful to me.
So wait, indulging in intoxicants other than alcohol makes you a "bro"? Damn, dude, check your holier-than-thou perceptions at the door and let people do their thing. I don't personally do any of the harder stuff, but I'm not going to condemn others if that makes them happy. I think you also have a very narrow-minded view as to what a "club" is and what types of people tend to frequent them (hint: the answer is "all different kinds").
[1] As long as my enjoyment isn't harming anyone else, anyway.
I think the OP saw a lack of nuance in the argument and explaining was speculating about where that comes from. I don't think anyone suggested that the European way is better. In fact, your reading of the OP's argument is very "American" because you talk about "European" as if it's a thing. Drinking culture in Southern Europe is very different from drinking culture in Central Europe. Eastern Europe is another thing altogether. Hell, even the way Spaniards drink is vastly different from the way Italians do. Also, in general Europeans get really drunk occasionally, just like you do, so even if there was a "European" way of drinking it would include your behavior.
Basically, I think you're reading into it too much. I don't think the OP implied what you think he or she did.
>> I have noticed that, as I get older, I need to hydrate more and more to avoid a headache afterward. Annoying.
Drinking water only helps relieve one of the causes of a hangover (dehydration). There are many many others, so it may not be the amount of water you need to change, but your choice of drinks (clear, distilled beverages generally contain less congeners, which are one of the main causes of hangovers).
Basically, I think you're reading into it too much. I don't think the OP implied what you think he or she did.
>> I have noticed that, as I get older, I need to hydrate more and more to avoid a headache afterward. Annoying.
Drinking water only helps relieve one of the causes of a hangover (dehydration). There are many many others, so it may not be the amount of water you need to change, but your choice of drinks (clear, distilled beverages generally contain less congeners, which are one of the main causes of hangovers).
Heh, funny, I actually almost included "southern" before "European" (as the parent did) when writing that, but didn't think the distinction mattered all that much and left it out. I stand corrected.
As for the parent's suggestion or lack of suggestion of his way being "better"... sure, perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but whenever I hear a comment like that in person, it is, without fail, accompanied by a condescending tone. But I suppose it's a bit unfair of me to assume that's the case here as well, given that I don't know the guy and text is terrible at conveying tone.
However, given that you point out that Europeans of all stripes do occasionally get really drunk, that leads me further to believe that when someone mentions drinking as "a typical southern European", it's hard for me to avoid reading some implication that that way is somehow better.
Drinking water only helps relieve one of the causes of a hangover (dehydration).
Sure. That just tends to be the main, and usually only, cause that really affects me, it turns out. I can predict with near 100% accuracy the presence or absence of a hangover (in me) by how much water I've had to drink. I guess the other factors don't affect me quite as much, but everyone's mileage of course varies.
As for the parent's suggestion or lack of suggestion of his way being "better"... sure, perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but whenever I hear a comment like that in person, it is, without fail, accompanied by a condescending tone. But I suppose it's a bit unfair of me to assume that's the case here as well, given that I don't know the guy and text is terrible at conveying tone.
However, given that you point out that Europeans of all stripes do occasionally get really drunk, that leads me further to believe that when someone mentions drinking as "a typical southern European", it's hard for me to avoid reading some implication that that way is somehow better.
Drinking water only helps relieve one of the causes of a hangover (dehydration).
Sure. That just tends to be the main, and usually only, cause that really affects me, it turns out. I can predict with near 100% accuracy the presence or absence of a hangover (in me) by how much water I've had to drink. I guess the other factors don't affect me quite as much, but everyone's mileage of course varies.
This feels like a very "European" comment.
Really the only thing you could nitpick is in points 7 and 9, because that's where he makes generalizations about alcohol's effects on others. Near as I can tell, the rest of the list is primarily about how it affects him as an individual. As far as alcohol being a depressant, that's pretty well established by now. I'm just not sure what exactly screams "American" about this article to you. It seems you're generalizing a lot of things about Americans just as you claim he's generalizing a lot of things about alcohol. Just not really sure what point you're getting at.
Really the only thing you could nitpick is in points 7 and 9, because that's where he makes generalizations about alcohol's effects on others. Near as I can tell, the rest of the list is primarily about how it affects him as an individual. As far as alcohol being a depressant, that's pretty well established by now. I'm just not sure what exactly screams "American" about this article to you. It seems you're generalizing a lot of things about Americans just as you claim he's generalizing a lot of things about alcohol. Just not really sure what point you're getting at.
Here are the points that to me only seem to apply to people irresponsibly binge-drinking:
#3 "expensive": I have never spent $100 when out drinking. You have to drink like a dozen beers to hit that, even if they're fancy craft beers. If you're really spending $100 on drinking, the issue is something other than drinking per se (either very expensive tastes in drinks, or binge drinking).
#4, "You slow down, you slur, you say dumb shit": If you drink a lot, sure, but most people do not slur their speech or act noticeably different after one or two beers.
#5: explicitly about "getting drunk", not about drinking alcohol in moderation
#7: drinking alcohol in moderation has generally been shown to be healthy, not unhealthy.
#8: "The day after is not worth it". Again, this only applies to binge-drinkers, not normal drinkers. You do not get a hangover from moderate alcohol consumption.
#9: "It turns some people into monsters", also something that only applies to excessive drinking. Having major personality changes from one or two drinks (vs. 6+) is quite rare.
My impression is that what the author really wants to explain is why he no longer engages in dozen-drink outings at a club, that result in a drunken stupor, large monetary expenditures, possibly unpleasant or regrettable social interactions, and day-or-more recovery. But most people who drink alcohol do not engage in that specific kind of drinking.
#3 "expensive": I have never spent $100 when out drinking. You have to drink like a dozen beers to hit that, even if they're fancy craft beers. If you're really spending $100 on drinking, the issue is something other than drinking per se (either very expensive tastes in drinks, or binge drinking).
#4, "You slow down, you slur, you say dumb shit": If you drink a lot, sure, but most people do not slur their speech or act noticeably different after one or two beers.
#5: explicitly about "getting drunk", not about drinking alcohol in moderation
#7: drinking alcohol in moderation has generally been shown to be healthy, not unhealthy.
#8: "The day after is not worth it". Again, this only applies to binge-drinkers, not normal drinkers. You do not get a hangover from moderate alcohol consumption.
#9: "It turns some people into monsters", also something that only applies to excessive drinking. Having major personality changes from one or two drinks (vs. 6+) is quite rare.
My impression is that what the author really wants to explain is why he no longer engages in dozen-drink outings at a club, that result in a drunken stupor, large monetary expenditures, possibly unpleasant or regrettable social interactions, and day-or-more recovery. But most people who drink alcohol do not engage in that specific kind of drinking.
I just still dont know. my girlfriend likes to have a few drinks when we go out. I'll drink with her so she doesnt feel awkward being the only one drinking. but a few things just to rebut your points.
#3 -- i hate beer, so the only real way i'll drink is if it's a cocktail. these typically range from $8-$12. I hate paying that much for a drink, so even 1 is expensive.
#4 -- i totally start slurring after 2 drinks. this is highly subjective
#5 -- maybe i can grant you that, in that it's not about drinking in moderation.
#7 -- i'm 50/50 on this. Beer is notorious for putting pounds on a person. It also does kill your liver. However, there are definitely other benefits associated with, say, a glass of wine with dinner. So I could kind of go either way on this
#8 -- i feel bad even after 2 or 3 drinks. For me, it primarily manifests itself in an awful night of sleep. But again, this is something that's very subjective, and it's not like he's putting a blanket criticism on drinking because it makes everyone feel bad the day after.
#9 -- i probably am with you on that too. because it turns other people into monsters if they drink too much doesnt mean the author shouldnt drink. but i can also understand his reasoning in that he wants to stay away from it because he doesnt want to allow himself the opportunity to turn into a monster, based on his observational evidence of how it affects others.
so if you look at the points that way, most of them still turn out to be reflections on how alcohol affects him personally, with those 2.5 exceptions.
#3 -- i hate beer, so the only real way i'll drink is if it's a cocktail. these typically range from $8-$12. I hate paying that much for a drink, so even 1 is expensive.
#4 -- i totally start slurring after 2 drinks. this is highly subjective
#5 -- maybe i can grant you that, in that it's not about drinking in moderation.
#7 -- i'm 50/50 on this. Beer is notorious for putting pounds on a person. It also does kill your liver. However, there are definitely other benefits associated with, say, a glass of wine with dinner. So I could kind of go either way on this
#8 -- i feel bad even after 2 or 3 drinks. For me, it primarily manifests itself in an awful night of sleep. But again, this is something that's very subjective, and it's not like he's putting a blanket criticism on drinking because it makes everyone feel bad the day after.
#9 -- i probably am with you on that too. because it turns other people into monsters if they drink too much doesnt mean the author shouldnt drink. but i can also understand his reasoning in that he wants to stay away from it because he doesnt want to allow himself the opportunity to turn into a monster, based on his observational evidence of how it affects others.
so if you look at the points that way, most of them still turn out to be reflections on how alcohol affects him personally, with those 2.5 exceptions.
He also mentions health as a concern but light to moderate drinkers (1-3 drinks per day) are generally healthier than teetotalers, who are then generally healthier than heavy drinkers (>3 drinks per day).
A drink of alcohol per day is shown to reduce the risk of heart disease significantly.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0216/026.html
Fortunately, there's more of a casual drinking culture brewing (no pun intended) in the U.S. based around craft beer and other alcoholic beverages. I probably have a beer a day on average, but I make a point to never get drunk.
> Almost everyone will at some point ask me why I don't drink, which is fair considering it's engrained into human society.
There should be no need to explain why you don't drink. Period. There's nothing wrong with not drinking and there's nothing weird about not drinking. If people are asking with any sort of condescension, you are probably spending time with the wrong people.
There should be no need to explain why you don't drink. Period. There's nothing wrong with not drinking and there's nothing weird about not drinking. If people are asking with any sort of condescension, you are probably spending time with the wrong people.
I don't drink. Most people think it's unusual or weird.
Explain != justify. Not drinking is, for better or worse, fairly unusual (at least in some circles). It's natural to be curious when someone says they don't drink. As long as the questioner is asking out of curiosity and not pre-judgment, I don't see anything wrong with it.
Which is exactly why I respond with "I just don't." To which people usually shrug and move on. Every once in a while I get somebody who is curious or somebody who wants to be an asshole. With the former, I make a joke. With the latter, I change the subject.
That's fine; you've decided that you don't want to talk about it. Other people are fine with talking about it.
asking why someone doesn't drink doesn't imply condescension
But it conveys "outsider" status and puts someone on the defensive. Would you like to be asked "Why?" every time you oder a drink?
If someone avoids alcohol there are 4 options:
-he dont like it
-religion or family tradition
-he got sick after it
-he is total wanker after few pints and he dont want people to see it
When someone is not ordering alcohol people might think the last one - and that's from the start bad omen.
I fully support people not drinking alcohol but unfortunately I find out that most people dont drink because inner them is coming out.
When someone is not ordering alcohol people might think the last one - and that's from the start bad omen.
I fully support people not drinking alcohol but unfortunately I find out that most people dont drink because inner them is coming out.
It is about the context. Given that it probably happens when everyone else is intoxicated slightly, it probably doesn't seem condescending to the person asking, they are just having fun, being warm and friendly but since he doesn't drink they might seem like assholes. See his last point on that.
I empathize with this article. I rarely drink, I get drunk about a half a dozen times a year, and shifting my social life away from bars and restaurants has enabled me to afford a lifestyle I otherwise couldn't have.
I put every penny I saved from my former bar oriented social life into a savings account, and in two years I put over $65k away, which turned into seed money for my own startup.
This is a point of pride for me, and overall has enriched my life in ways social drinking never could have.
I've grown distant from certain friends because of it, and I get questions nearly everytime I do go out and refuse a drink. These things are not important to me, and those people less so.
Moral of the story is, people should live their lives how they see fit, and that is for both drinkers and non drinkers alike.
I put every penny I saved from my former bar oriented social life into a savings account, and in two years I put over $65k away, which turned into seed money for my own startup.
This is a point of pride for me, and overall has enriched my life in ways social drinking never could have.
I've grown distant from certain friends because of it, and I get questions nearly everytime I do go out and refuse a drink. These things are not important to me, and those people less so.
Moral of the story is, people should live their lives how they see fit, and that is for both drinkers and non drinkers alike.
Not to mention that alcohol is a major carcinogen in the United States. From the National Cancer Institute: "Based on data from 2009, an estimated 3.5 percent of all cancer deaths in the United States were alcohol related." [0]
[0] http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol
[0] http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol
Note that those cancer prevalences are associated with drinking >3.5 drinks (50g alcohol) per day, which is borderline alcoholic (assuming it really means most days, not just some days)
This hits the nail on the head for me. I'm a college student in the US right now, and drinking is a big part of the "college experience". I don't like drinking — that's not to say I don't every once in a while (think once every two months), I just don't really enjoy it like other people do. It makes me uncomfortable that I'd be around other people I potentially don't know without all my faculties.
I think it's just a control thing for me — I don't want to lose control of myself and do stupid things. Even normally, I'm super self-aware, and that'd just get worse with alcohol.
I think it's just a control thing for me — I don't want to lose control of myself and do stupid things. Even normally, I'm super self-aware, and that'd just get worse with alcohol.
I'm really with the author here. I don't drink much, and people usually ask me why when I'm out. I just don't find it all that enjoyable most of the time, to be honest.
also, there's this: >There is a longer list of things I'd rather spend $100 on
I just want to take a moment to suggest this as an alternative. http://www.amazon.com/Parker-Sonnet-Original-Matte-Fountain/...
also, there's this: >There is a longer list of things I'd rather spend $100 on
I just want to take a moment to suggest this as an alternative. http://www.amazon.com/Parker-Sonnet-Original-Matte-Fountain/...
I might use this comment to respond to every single person who uses the cost of alcohol as a reason not to drink saying "there are so many other things I'd rather buy.."
LIKE WHAT? A PEN? That's a pen. You can never convince me that I should believe that pen is objectively more valuable than a night out treating friends. Forget it. If it's more valuable to YOU because you love pens and dislike drinking, fine, but this argument that "stuff" is somehow inherently worth more than "experiences" (like food, alcohol, events, etc.) falls so unbelievably flat to me.
LIKE WHAT? A PEN? That's a pen. You can never convince me that I should believe that pen is objectively more valuable than a night out treating friends. Forget it. If it's more valuable to YOU because you love pens and dislike drinking, fine, but this argument that "stuff" is somehow inherently worth more than "experiences" (like food, alcohol, events, etc.) falls so unbelievably flat to me.
It's all where you place your value at. Is that so hard to get? I like pens (yeah they're expensive pens). And folks like me obviously find value in things other than alcohol. Nobody's trying to say that drinking is worthless: it's just worthless to US. If you get enjoyment out of it, more power to you. I'm not sure why there's so much controversy about not liking the act of drinking :S :S
If you don't like drinking, why bring up the money? It's an irrelevant point, unless you're saying "I like drinking, but I like pens more so I choose to spend my money on pens" at which point I say "I respect that, but we're clearly not going to be friends". But if it's "I don't like drinking, btw I like pens so I spend the money I would spend drinking on pens" then it's not why you don't drink - it's what you do with your money since you don't like drinking. In which case we can be friends.
The way it's presented in this post is none of those, and seems more to me to be an attempt to make me feel silly for spending my money on "things I won't remember" (something that never happens to almost anyone when they drink). I don't feel silly at all for it, and my personal view of life makes me feel that placing value on physical things above experiences is extremely silly.
The way it's presented in this post is none of those, and seems more to me to be an attempt to make me feel silly for spending my money on "things I won't remember" (something that never happens to almost anyone when they drink). I don't feel silly at all for it, and my personal view of life makes me feel that placing value on physical things above experiences is extremely silly.
> The way it's presented in this post is none of those, and seems more to me to be an attempt to make me feel silly for spending my money on "things I won't remember"
I didn't get that at all out of it, and not sure why you did. I read it as "I get this question a lot, and I'm just ready to vent a little. So this is why I don't drink." Don't read into something that's not there! :) I feel like a lot of the people who don't like this article have read it as a criticism of their decision to drink, which it doesn't seem at all to be.
I didn't get that at all out of it, and not sure why you did. I read it as "I get this question a lot, and I'm just ready to vent a little. So this is why I don't drink." Don't read into something that's not there! :) I feel like a lot of the people who don't like this article have read it as a criticism of their decision to drink, which it doesn't seem at all to be.
I don't drink very often anymore (maybe a few times a year). I've never liked the taste of most alcohol, so when I drink, it's generally just a lot of shots to get it down easiest. When I went out more, I drank more (the incredible effort I have to maintain to be around people is lessened if I'm drinking). As I got older, it seemed easier to just stop leaving my apartment, and I was never a fan of drinking at home.
I suppose somewhere in the back of my head I always worried about becoming an alcoholic (coming from a long line of stinking drunks), but thankfully, I don't really have any addiction issues.
I'll admit that it's probably a bad thing that so much of our culture is alcohol-centric, but I don't begrudge that other people just like drinking.
I suppose somewhere in the back of my head I always worried about becoming an alcoholic (coming from a long line of stinking drunks), but thankfully, I don't really have any addiction issues.
I'll admit that it's probably a bad thing that so much of our culture is alcohol-centric, but I don't begrudge that other people just like drinking.
I enjoy certain intoxicants.
I enjoy hanging around people that are intoxicated
That said, one can give plenty of arguments for why alcohol adds something to your life. Mainly all of the reasons you gave against it were completely self-centred and if you acknowledge that the quality of your life is most greatly impacted by your interaction with others... well, alcohol can bring value to that.
As a side note, if you are going to parties and filling up on "other intoxicants" that make you thirst more for water than alcohol, you're not really doing yourself any favors.
I'm wallowing in self pity after a great night last night. New Zealand is like Oz and the UK in that it has a huge, ugly, binge drinking culture. I was caught up in it for a while but eventually I had to perform a bit of self-reflection, realise that I was a bit of a dick when I lost control and really focus on what I wanted. Turns out I enjoy drinking with friends, but I hate being wasted and out of control. I also really enjoy the taste and variety of the conduits which we use to numb ourselves.
Why am I posting this? Because it sounds like OP and myself (and likely many, many others) have gone through a similar experience of calibrating ourselves to alcohol, but found ourselves coping with the downsides in different, equally-valid ways.
Why am I posting this? Because it sounds like OP and myself (and likely many, many others) have gone through a similar experience of calibrating ourselves to alcohol, but found ourselves coping with the downsides in different, equally-valid ways.
I just don't like the taste of alcoholic beverages, and therefore I don't drink them.
If beer didn't have alcohol, I wouldn't drink it. It's the least awful alcoholic drink I've found.
Which non-alcoholic beverages do you like? I have a hard time finding good tasting alternatives.
Pretty much all teas, juices, sodas, and almost everything else that I have tasted. I can only remember that, besides things containing ethanol, I can't seem to like coffee.
I agree with most of his points, and that's why I don't drink to excess. But I'm happy to have a glass of red wine with a steak or a nice stinky piece of cheese, and I don't suffer any of the drawbacks he states. I don't feel an urge to continue drinking either, because yeah, being drunk and hungover later sucks!
Drinking (or doing anything) responsibly doesn't just mean "find a DD and then get trashed", it can also mean "find satiation with a little bit of something nice."
Drinking (or doing anything) responsibly doesn't just mean "find a DD and then get trashed", it can also mean "find satiation with a little bit of something nice."
I've never had a drink for personal and religious reasons. From an outside perspective, those are all the same kinds of reasons I'd have.
Primarily, it's shocking to me how much people spend on alcohol. I was out with some co-workers that were spending $10 per shot. That was a bit of shock for me.
Primarily, it's shocking to me how much people spend on alcohol. I was out with some co-workers that were spending $10 per shot. That was a bit of shock for me.
Everyone's got their vice. Some people have many. Alcohol just isn't yours. I personally love beer. I really enjoy it... but i have nothing against anyone for making the decision not to drink it.
>I go to clubs. I enjoy certain intoxicants.
Sounds like he gets high, but doesn't drink.
Sounds like he gets high, but doesn't drink.
Probably chows down on ritalin like half of HN. ;)
Why I don't do X? Seriously, you can do what you want and i am sure you have your reasons. Why must we feel compelled to announce our choices?
Some companies, failing to differentiate themselves from fraternities, hold "drink-ups" instead of meet-ups. Sometimes not drinking ostracises you from a culture. (I have this problem in an even-more-conspicuous way: I don't like hot drinks, or the taste of coffee. This makes "let's get coffee and chat" a bit awkward.)
I wrote the article, and I honestly wrote it primarily for myself and didn't expect others to find it interesting. It's a question I get on a more than weekly basis, I figured it was time to sit down, think about it deeply, and write it down.
Alcohol is a prevalent part of a lot of lives — it's what a lot of people do to be sociable.
What are good recommendations for non-alcoholic drinks? I don't like most alternatives because they are too sweet.
this article should have been posted last night
First I respect his decision. For some it can addictive and if you feel like you can't control yourself it's best to avoid. However, he uses "getting drunk" and "drinking" interchangeably, there's a lot between those two points.
A drink a day, sometimes two, are not harmful. They will not really intoxicate you. Everyone else is drinking so any dumbing down is valid for anyone else. A drink are two is not unhealthy, maybe it's even healthy.
A drink a day, sometimes two, are not harmful. They will not really intoxicate you. Everyone else is drinking so any dumbing down is valid for anyone else. A drink are two is not unhealthy, maybe it's even healthy.
The x in my name is more than just a delimiter!
Why was this down voted? It's perfectly relevant.
I'm slightly tempted to write a follow-up article with, "why I don't participate in bro culture", based on this article's pervasive reference to clubs, "certain intoxicants", and other such questionable things the author appears to indulge in, but which seem stupid and harmful to me.
[1] To be fair, the U.S. may have gotten its drunkards-vs-teetotallers attitude in part from Europe. Sweden in particular, and the UK some centuries earlier, used to have a very similar divide.