Poll: How many generations removed from immigration are you?
69 comments
I'm not in the USA - does that mean you don't care? My family is still entirely in my country of origin, and they are at least four generations there. I am the first in my family to move to another country, hence I am an immigrant. I run two companies, employ 25 people, and don't have a visa.
To avoid spoiling your USA-centric poll I haven't ticked an option.
To avoid spoiling your USA-centric poll I haven't ticked an option.
Neither Am I, but my grandmother was German. The poll doesn't have to be as USA-centric as you make it :-)
On a sidenote, At her funeral a few years ago I found out that in 1908, at the age of 11, she was put on a train from Germany to Denmark with noone to pick her up at the other end. Her German family was in extreme poverty and gave her a one way ticket to another country, hoping that someone would pick her up and care for her when she arrived in Denmark.
Noone did, so for the first few years she took care of herself, and was eventually adopted by a farming family where she got work. She grew up, had lots of kids, was a great mother and granny and was always there for people in hardship. Guess she knew what real hardship was.
Stoic as she was she never told anyone aboout it, and it was only revealed at her funeral. She lived to be 93.
Tough lady.
On a sidenote, At her funeral a few years ago I found out that in 1908, at the age of 11, she was put on a train from Germany to Denmark with noone to pick her up at the other end. Her German family was in extreme poverty and gave her a one way ticket to another country, hoping that someone would pick her up and care for her when she arrived in Denmark.
Noone did, so for the first few years she took care of herself, and was eventually adopted by a farming family where she got work. She grew up, had lots of kids, was a great mother and granny and was always there for people in hardship. Guess she knew what real hardship was.
Stoic as she was she never told anyone aboout it, and it was only revealed at her funeral. She lived to be 93.
Tough lady.
Thanks for the great story. I have many like that (but I'll spare you).
My grandparents endured hardships I can't even imagine. They had nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they were 4 of the happiest people I ever met. Go figure.
My grandparents endured hardships I can't even imagine. They had nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they were 4 of the happiest people I ever met. Go figure.
Happiness doesn't correlate with material wealth.
We often forget how much we have, how safe our lives are and how little we have to fear. When you hear stories like these, and there are many if you ask old folks that have been through wars famines and worse, you realise that happiness and living a full life is a mental exercise that is not dependant upon material wealth. That's why I wrote the post - I think it's worth saying.
My grandmother was as happy an caring as one could possibly be, and it seems that your experience is the same. And they went through stuff we couldn't even dream of.
We often forget how much we have, how safe our lives are and how little we have to fear. When you hear stories like these, and there are many if you ask old folks that have been through wars famines and worse, you realise that happiness and living a full life is a mental exercise that is not dependant upon material wealth. That's why I wrote the post - I think it's worth saying.
My grandmother was as happy an caring as one could possibly be, and it seems that your experience is the same. And they went through stuff we couldn't even dream of.
I already accidentally spoiled it. I voted for three generations, but I'm Canadian.
I don't think this has to be USA-centric. Immigrating is not a small decision, or an easy one! It would be interesting to know if there is a correlation between the willingness to do this and general creativity/ambition. I guess the flip-side would be to ask the question: Do people that stay in one place tend to become less creative or ambitious?
Not entirely sure how you deem this poll to be US-centric. It's the result of a discussion on immigration relating to innovation in the US, sure, but I understand the poll to be more of a look at whether that applies to the Hacker News community.
My point is, vote! It's an interesting poll.
My point is, vote! It's an interesting poll.
My point is that to me, and perhaps to many who don't live in the USA, the entire question feels USA-centric. There's a significant difference between being a first generation Bulgaria->Sweden immigrant and being a first generation Germany->Netherlands immigrant. It's just fundamentally different, and I think a poll like this demonstrates a non-understanding of that.
The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. To a western European this kind of thinking seems very parochial.
The very idea of asking this kind of question makes it seems USA-centric, because the USA has such a strong self-identification as the land of opportunity for immigrants. The discussions about H1-B visas indicates the schizoid nature of that identity.
I've heard it said that the difference between Britain and the USA is that the British think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time.
Again, all of this is my impression, but you did ask.
The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. To a western European this kind of thinking seems very parochial.
The very idea of asking this kind of question makes it seems USA-centric, because the USA has such a strong self-identification as the land of opportunity for immigrants. The discussions about H1-B visas indicates the schizoid nature of that identity.
I've heard it said that the difference between Britain and the USA is that the British think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time.
Again, all of this is my impression, but you did ask.
The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures.
That's the ideal in some of the USA, but it's by no means the historical norm. The traditional thinking in the USA has always been that either you're an immigrant from Awesome Culture X or Y, and therefore the salt of the earth, or you're from Despised Culture Z or Q, and therefore a dangerous foreign influence that needs to be controlled.
The darkly amusing feature of our culture is the routine reshuffling of the categories.
That's the ideal in some of the USA, but it's by no means the historical norm. The traditional thinking in the USA has always been that either you're an immigrant from Awesome Culture X or Y, and therefore the salt of the earth, or you're from Despised Culture Z or Q, and therefore a dangerous foreign influence that needs to be controlled.
The darkly amusing feature of our culture is the routine reshuffling of the categories.
There are a number of countries besides the US that self-identify as "built by immigrants". Canada, Israel, and Australia come to mind. And in the United States too, there is a world of difference between being a Mexican, Dutch or Canadian immigrant. Like many big life changes, immigration is lived differently by everyone, but everyone will tend to look at the broad phenomenon through the lens of their own experience. Spoken as an Eastern European who moved to the states in childhood...
From what my wife tells me, you should add Turkey to that list too.
It is USA centric. But the value of the exercise, to me, is to appreciate how close to part of my family's immigration I am. I am a second generation immigrant. This is important to keep in mind when we talk about American immigration policies.
Francis arrived in "America" in 1639, with his son, Caleb.
Francis Caleb Abraham Nathan Daniel Isaac Isaac Jr. Hanford George Hanford Basil George me
Which makes me 10 generations removed on my father's side. 44 points plus the bonus.
My mother's side is murkier, but extends back to the mid-1700s, perhaps 7 generations removed. Again 44 points.
Francis Caleb Abraham Nathan Daniel Isaac Isaac Jr. Hanford George Hanford Basil George me
Which makes me 10 generations removed on my father's side. 44 points plus the bonus.
My mother's side is murkier, but extends back to the mid-1700s, perhaps 7 generations removed. Again 44 points.
I am an immigrant. Moved here from Russia when I was 5.
However, my grandfather was born in New York. But his parents were born in Russia.
My family has been moving back and forth between Russia and the United States for the last 150 years. It appears that we can't make up our minds.
However, my grandfather was born in New York. But his parents were born in Russia.
My family has been moving back and forth between Russia and the United States for the last 150 years. It appears that we can't make up our minds.
I'm a 17-year-old student that, at the age of 5, immigrated from the People's Republic of China to the United States (originally settling in the suburbs of west Philadelphia (not born, but raised) then New Jersey and lastly Massachusetts.)
I'm also an entrepreneur (on my 8th) and extremely thankful for the opportunities that the US presents (makes everything on http://markbao.com possible.) Entrepreneurship in China probably isn't as bad as, say, North Korea, but definitely appreciate all the opportunities here. Reading that article, it's definitely true.
Though I can't say that other places don't have the same opportunities, since I have no prior experience elsewhere.
I'm also an entrepreneur (on my 8th) and extremely thankful for the opportunities that the US presents (makes everything on http://markbao.com possible.) Entrepreneurship in China probably isn't as bad as, say, North Korea, but definitely appreciate all the opportunities here. Reading that article, it's definitely true.
Though I can't say that other places don't have the same opportunities, since I have no prior experience elsewhere.
Germanic people have been living here (The Netherlands) since 250 BC. God only knows whether I'm a direct descendant from those settlers. My sister once did some geneanological research for a high school project, so I can definitely account for 6 generations, but it may well be a 100.
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I was born in Dublin, Ireland and moved to Canada when I was 6, and I'm a Canadian citizen. So I guess that makes my answer 0. However I've since lived and/or worked in Pakistan, Spain, the UK and the US. Add to that that my grandmother was actually American, and "reverse-immigrated" back to Ireland, and the word "immigrant" doesn't quite capture it.
I'd probably say 5 or more generations, considering the whole slavery thing. Not sure about the part of my family not of African descent. The topic's actually never really come up before. Our family trees are a bit... obscure
I am brazilian but I will answer it either way, Brazil is also a country were a large portion of the population are not far removed from immigrants, mainly Japanese, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Germans and Lebanese, and in recent years Bolivian, Korean, Chinese and other lesser groups. My maternal grandfather was born in Vilnius then under German occupation, in 1916. He came to Brazil in 1939. My paternal grandfather was born in Morocco, in Taroudant, in 1907, he immigrated to Portugal in 1917 and to Brazil in 1932. So the answer for me is 2 generations. My grandmothers were distant cousins, and their family came from Morocco, from a city then called Mogador, to Brazil in 1827 and were among the first legal jewish immigrants in Brazil (there's a complicated history of jews in Portugal in 16th century), 5 generations ago.
Now most of my family lives in Israel with exception of my immediate family, a cousin and an aunt, all my grandparents are deceased (ע״ה).
If I didn't have to wade through the immigration process over here, I would have started my own company many years back. My story is not unique.
The story goes that things that do not kill you make you stronger. So one might theorize that this is one more obstacle that will separate the men from the boys. It is just a test of your relentless resourcefulness. But its only a theory. I feel that immigration rules in the US are one of those things that kill the boys and leave behind dead men.
Agreed, I set sail on a boat, a flying one, on a calculation that I have better chances over here than where I started from. So I stand and fight for a 5% chance over a 2% one. But its a depressing fight. So if you are listening to this and in one of the other countries that wants your own silicon valley this is the silver bullet. Make immigration laws strictly adhere to common sense without exception.
In the meantime let me go back and drive the American Innovation and be pissed on by politicians trying to get some votes.
The story goes that things that do not kill you make you stronger. So one might theorize that this is one more obstacle that will separate the men from the boys. It is just a test of your relentless resourcefulness. But its only a theory. I feel that immigration rules in the US are one of those things that kill the boys and leave behind dead men.
Agreed, I set sail on a boat, a flying one, on a calculation that I have better chances over here than where I started from. So I stand and fight for a 5% chance over a 2% one. But its a depressing fight. So if you are listening to this and in one of the other countries that wants your own silicon valley this is the silver bullet. Make immigration laws strictly adhere to common sense without exception.
In the meantime let me go back and drive the American Innovation and be pissed on by politicians trying to get some votes.
Aye, I'd be the same as RiderOfGiraffes. The "How many generations from immigration" thing won't make any sense for large numbers of HN readers, who are from the UK/IE/Continental Europe. If anything, the question here would be how many generations has it been since large parts of your family emigrated
Because Israel is a pretty young country most people living here are <= 2nd generation immigrants.
I'm a 4th generation immigrant. 5 generations ago my family immigrated from Russia and created at least a couple of cities, which still exist today.
I came over from the Soviet Union when I was 5 with my parents seeking political asylum.
Me too. What part of the Soviet Union?
Leningrad then. St Petersburg now.
How about you?
How about you?
St.Petersburg => Melbourne, AU for me.
Why'd you/your family decide to go to Australia? Is there a large former Soviet population there?
The population is not large ... I'd guess about 20,000 in cities like Melbourne and Syndey.
But basically, when you look at factors like: English speaking, good climate, good lifestyle, has an established and understandable immigration program - the choices narrow down to Canada and Australia. And we do not like winter, so there you have it.
I think it changed a bit since 2001 - now, I think, UK has established a migration program similar to AU. Don't know all details, but I would consider it if it existed in 2001. One big negative side of Australia is that it is so far away from everything.
But basically, when you look at factors like: English speaking, good climate, good lifestyle, has an established and understandable immigration program - the choices narrow down to Canada and Australia. And we do not like winter, so there you have it.
I think it changed a bit since 2001 - now, I think, UK has established a migration program similar to AU. Don't know all details, but I would consider it if it existed in 2001. One big negative side of Australia is that it is so far away from everything.
Tashkent. So its in Uzbekistan now.
Of course I have multiple ancestral lines. (And my wife is a first-generation immigrant, born overseas, so my children choose the "1 generation" answer, even though I chose the "3 generations" answer.) Some of my ancestors arrived in the United States during the 1600s, and most were living in my current state of residence well before it became a state. But others arrived more recently. Not quite half of my ancestors came from the two European countries that lost the biggest percentages of their populations to emigration--Ireland and Norway--because they were dirt poor. But just more than half my ancestors were fairly well off in Europe, and came to America, in some cases as part of organized groups that formed "colonies" here in the 1800s, because they desired more freedom than their home countries provided, even though they were prospering in those home countries.
My wife grew up in another country, and one of my children was born there during a subsequent period of residence there (but has only a claim to United States citizenship by facts of birth), so I am familiar with current immigrant communities. The United States still provides a lot of opportunities that are less abundant in other countries. And immigrants by virtue of having lived in two cultures usually arrive in the United States full of fresh ideas that result in their having a more creative approach to living here when they get here.
My wife grew up in another country, and one of my children was born there during a subsequent period of residence there (but has only a claim to United States citizenship by facts of birth), so I am familiar with current immigrant communities. The United States still provides a lot of opportunities that are less abundant in other countries. And immigrants by virtue of having lived in two cultures usually arrive in the United States full of fresh ideas that result in their having a more creative approach to living here when they get here.
Your nomenclature is a bit screwed up. Instead of saying "how many generations removed", the common way to refer to immigrants is "first generation" (the people who were born elsewhere), "second generation" (their kids) etc.
I'm a 1.5-er. I was born elsewhere and my family came to Canada when I was 13, and like other 1.5-ers, while I fit in just fine, I do have a bit of a double-identity. The good part is that it gives you extra perspective on many things, while the bad part means you can never quite fit in 100%.
I'm a 1.5-er. I was born elsewhere and my family came to Canada when I was 13, and like other 1.5-ers, while I fit in just fine, I do have a bit of a double-identity. The good part is that it gives you extra perspective on many things, while the bad part means you can never quite fit in 100%.
Most of my clan seem to have come over either in the 17th century (the last name was imported then), or were German engineers who immigrated in the 19th century. But it varies so much its hard to say exactly. I am very much a euromut. I wish I'd looked into it more while more of the earlier generations were still alive.
My grandfather on my father's side descended from a line of engineers through North Carolina (and was much smarter than me). My mother's side were mostly farmers until a couple generations ago.
Overall, its such a mix that it would be impossible to pin down what nations and tribes I am composed of, short of DNA analysis - which I have thought of doing - at https://www.23andme.com/ $400 is a bit out of my price range at the moment, though. Check out their UI, though - its amazing, and could be the future of more advanced interfaces in biotech. I look forward to doing this analysis some day though, and I'm excited what kind of variety I don't know about I'll find.
It would be fun to follow up such an analysis with a round the world trip to get in touch with the cultural roots of one's DNA :)
My grandfather on my father's side descended from a line of engineers through North Carolina (and was much smarter than me). My mother's side were mostly farmers until a couple generations ago.
Overall, its such a mix that it would be impossible to pin down what nations and tribes I am composed of, short of DNA analysis - which I have thought of doing - at https://www.23andme.com/ $400 is a bit out of my price range at the moment, though. Check out their UI, though - its amazing, and could be the future of more advanced interfaces in biotech. I look forward to doing this analysis some day though, and I'm excited what kind of variety I don't know about I'll find.
It would be fun to follow up such an analysis with a round the world trip to get in touch with the cultural roots of one's DNA :)
I'm not really sure how to answer that. I am an American, and live in Italy, so I suppose that makes me an immigrant. We may go back to the US at some point, but my daughter is Italian/American, so I guess I'll check the first one: either I or my wife will always be an immigrant (or maybe both, like when we were in Austria).
In terms of the US, some of the people on my mother's side were involved in founding Providence, RI, where Roger Williams went after being kicked out of MA. On my father's side, they were Danish immigrants at the end of the 19th century, or at least the ones we know something about.
In terms of the US, some of the people on my mother's side were involved in founding Providence, RI, where Roger Williams went after being kicked out of MA. On my father's side, they were Danish immigrants at the end of the 19th century, or at least the ones we know something about.
Enough that I don't know.
I honestly can't name a relative that was definitely descended from an immigrant. I do have an approximate idea of my overall immigrant make-up though.
I honestly can't name a relative that was definitely descended from an immigrant. I do have an approximate idea of my overall immigrant make-up though.
Don't know the exact number of generations. The family on my mothers side immigrated to Denmark from Holland in the 17th century
I voted for two generations, but I'm British.
My immediate family has migrated thrice in the last 15 years and it is not over yet. As long as I can remember, we always had plans to move somewhere else. I plan to end it when I reach the northern part of the Western Hemisphere (hopefully excluding Western Africa and South/Central Americas :)).
13. My 10(great) grandfather was John Alden and came over on the Mayflower.
I think I did the math right...
I voted twice in the poll, for different sides of my family. Is this okay? The original post asks only for shortest generational distance to an immigrant, but does not specifically ask for no double voting.
(Australian) but shortest is 2 generations (from England). Longest is undefined generations (have an Aboriginal ancestor so assuming at least 40,000 years). The longest I can define is 5 (from England).
While I don't live in the US, I am an immigrant to the United Kingdom (an EU citizen, so not even a real immigrant since I took the shortcuts and my home country is two hours away from Heathrow Airport)
My folks came to Maryland in 1660 or so, on the first colony ship. They were Catholic (illegal at the time in Britain) and looking to start somewhere more Papist-friendly.
I'm an immigrant myself, and the 3 generations before me have all emigrated from a different country before having kids. I guess I have the immigration gene.
Born in US. Family lived as expatriates in Central America for 20 years, so I was raised in Honduras and Costa Rica. We returned to the US when I was 13.
I'm not really sure, but we should be from this country since 300 or 400 may be! (In paper there's more than 6 generations! => 500 years at least)
Dutch fishermen for at least 6 generations on (transitive) father's side. Although I decided to become an expat computer scientist/software engineer.
3 generations. My paternal grand-grandparents came to Turkey from Razgrad,Bulgaria and my maternal grand-grandparents came from Thessalonica.
Two generations removed from my family's country of origin (France) and now an immigrant again (Japan) - not sure if it's permanent though.
Ticked two - Dad came from Ireland to Australia, I was born in Australia but am now living in the UK, not sure if I'll stay here though...
I immigrated to the U.S. in my teens. Just moved to Australia 20 days ago :-P
I think I am done "immigrating" in the classic now. Now I am just another yank living abroad :-)
I think I am done "immigrating" in the classic now. Now I am just another yank living abroad :-)
0 - moved to NJ from London when I was 7. Before that, I think we had been in England for 5-6 generations (longer in some branches).
One grandfather was born in Sligo, Ireland.
The other side of the family is related to Miles Standish's English family
The other side of the family is related to Miles Standish's English family
Came to US when I was 12 from Ukraine, came to Ukraine when I was 1 or so from Russia.
2 generations in my home country... but now I am an immigrant myself.
Picked 5 or more, since infinity is most definitely more than 5.
1
My parents were "boat people" from Vietnam and settled here in Canada.
My parents were "boat people" from Vietnam and settled here in Canada.
4th generation American... but I'm living abroad :)
moved from germany to new zealand some years ago - have a small company now and love my life again - think i'll stay :-)
Moved from Israel.
Don't know if this counts, but my family immigrated during WW2 from Prussia (Soviet tanks rolling in..) to western Germany. Like Americans we had to build everything from scratch in town were everybody else was a stranger.
Here's how it works: Take the shortest path from you to one of your ancestors that was "off the boat", so to speak. For example, my mother was born overseas, so I'd be 1 generation removed. If you are, yourself, an immigrant, then you'd be 0 generations removed.
I'm curious to see how this turns out...