Ask HN: Is Twitter lost on me?
29 comments
When I first heard of it, I didn't get it. Then I got it and thought -- that's really cool. Then I ungot it. Twitter is a mullet. It's not just a fad, but a fad that will embarrass us later.
Listen, I'm all for technology. And new things really require a shift in our mindset. I love the "global realtime-ness" of Twitter, and I'm sure that core product will still be around in five years. What form it will be in is hard to say, but I can guarantee you it will not be as Twitter, which will have become a zeitgeist-icon-of-infamy for this age in the same way Pets.com and Boo are for the dot com bubble.
Listen, I'm all for technology. And new things really require a shift in our mindset. I love the "global realtime-ness" of Twitter, and I'm sure that core product will still be around in five years. What form it will be in is hard to say, but I can guarantee you it will not be as Twitter, which will have become a zeitgeist-icon-of-infamy for this age in the same way Pets.com and Boo are for the dot com bubble.
"Twitter is a mullet". Just checked on google and that is the first use of that phrase on the internet. I'm proud to have been here to see because that is going to stick.
For what it's worth, I agree. Survey's show only 40% of new users returning after a month. But Facebook was more like that, and it's not dead yet. There's the Stephen Fry | Sockington style Twitter mediated humour, and that's fine but it's not enough to make me put up with the inane "I'm drinking coffee now! OMG!" drivel from so many people I vaguely know. Question is, what proportion of people enjoy that? I suspect that if I worked in a cubicle my need for displacement activity would make me an avid twitter user.
Five years isn't that long; Twitter has already been around for three. I seriously doubt it'll be gone in another five.
"I already have plenty of things to read/do when my mind does need a wonder in the evening/weekend" -- for many people, especially those in their 20s who came of age using Facebook, Myspace, AIM, etc, one of those things we do to occupy our time is use the Internet to keep up with friends who we, for whatever reason, can't just call on the phone or hang out with in person. Recent college grads especially suddenly find that their once close friends are scattered across the globe; Twitter lets them maintain a sense of nearness.
To me, that's the appeal. You don't have to be unemployed to have 10 minutes a day in which to keep up, particularly when you weigh that 10 minutes spent reading Twitter against the amount of time it would take to maintain individual correspondences.
To me, that's the appeal. You don't have to be unemployed to have 10 minutes a day in which to keep up, particularly when you weigh that 10 minutes spent reading Twitter against the amount of time it would take to maintain individual correspondences.
To me, that's the appeal. You don't have to be unemployed to have 10 minutes a day in which to keep up, particularly when you weigh that 10 minutes spent reading Twitter against the amount of time it would take to maintain individual correspondences.
I'm not a Twitter user and this is perhaps one of the reasons I don't use it. Individual correspondence is important, and I don't think Twitter would be a good vehicle for the types of things that might be communicated in personal correspondence.
That said, it does has its purpose--perhaps I'd rather someone tweet a funny video, link, etc, etc, etc, rather than spamming their entire address book....
I'm not a Twitter user and this is perhaps one of the reasons I don't use it. Individual correspondence is important, and I don't think Twitter would be a good vehicle for the types of things that might be communicated in personal correspondence.
That said, it does has its purpose--perhaps I'd rather someone tweet a funny video, link, etc, etc, etc, rather than spamming their entire address book....
Individual correspondence is important, and I don't think Twitter would be a good vehicle for the types of things that might be communicated in personal correspondence.
That's actually exactly why I like Twitter. Direct Messages are a perfect way of keeping in touch with friends over something that isn't email worthy--the equivalent of sending an SMS if we were in the same country.
That's actually exactly why I like Twitter. Direct Messages are a perfect way of keeping in touch with friends over something that isn't email worthy--the equivalent of sending an SMS if we were in the same country.
Do you read Hacker News, or just troll it? Twitter stories make the front page several times a week, and virtually every one of them has a high-rated comment from someone who needs to point out to us how unimportant Twitter is to them.
I don't have time to learn to like anything but Bass and weiss beer, to find out what J-Horror is all about, to play Mob Wars on Facebook, to learn Haskell, to put up solar panels, or to visit New Orleans. Is that 6 "Ask HN" posts I'm unfairly holding back? Or is "I don't see why this is so hyped up" just a really boring story?
I don't have time to learn to like anything but Bass and weiss beer, to find out what J-Horror is all about, to play Mob Wars on Facebook, to learn Haskell, to put up solar panels, or to visit New Orleans. Is that 6 "Ask HN" posts I'm unfairly holding back? Or is "I don't see why this is so hyped up" just a really boring story?
Hi,
I am using HN to understand from (hopefully) other tech professionals if they have found a way to leverage Twitter. (And have read some good comments already in this thread.)
Twitter is very real-time, that is its power and a core part of its functionality.
So, your 6 generalised analogies on not having time for X misses the point.
I am using HN to understand from (hopefully) other tech professionals if they have found a way to leverage Twitter. (And have read some good comments already in this thread.)
Twitter is very real-time, that is its power and a core part of its functionality.
So, your 6 generalised analogies on not having time for X misses the point.
Next time, try http://www.searchyc.com first.
Is that 6 "Ask HN" posts I'm unfairly holding back?
Nope. Not unless you're so desperate for up mods that you're going to start posting non-posts.
Nope. Not unless you're so desperate for up mods that you're going to start posting non-posts.
I don't think the OP was trolling. Maybe s/he is just not as familiar with HN or Twitter as you are? Regardless, I think your response is disproportionately hostile and fosters an ungenerous environment. I find it discouraging that such an unforgiving response would receive so many upvotes.
Yes. If you're asking that question, then Twitter is lost on you. For now.
It's like happening upon a pad of post-it notes. You either say "Sweet, I have a use for these," or you say "Hmm," and file it away somewhere.
Eventually, you may develop a need that is filled by little bits of paper with weak-sauce glue on the back, and remember about the post-it notes.
Likewise, you may eventually develop a need to episodically distribute short bits if information to a well-defined audience, and you might think "I could do this with Twitter. Or post-it notes and a cadre of flying monkeys."
It's like happening upon a pad of post-it notes. You either say "Sweet, I have a use for these," or you say "Hmm," and file it away somewhere.
Eventually, you may develop a need that is filled by little bits of paper with weak-sauce glue on the back, and remember about the post-it notes.
Likewise, you may eventually develop a need to episodically distribute short bits if information to a well-defined audience, and you might think "I could do this with Twitter. Or post-it notes and a cadre of flying monkeys."
Agreed. I generally don't use Twitter, but at PyCon it was great for finding out, say, that everyone else wasn't appreciating the same talk you were attending and that there was something much better happening in room 3.
I gave up on reading every single tweet, just as I gave up on reading every RSS entry in my reader. I just check it when I get bored or need a break for a minute or two.
I probably don't spend more than 15 minutes a day dealing with Twitter, but I still like using it.
I probably don't spend more than 15 minutes a day dealing with Twitter, but I still like using it.
Your two use-cases are not how I think about Twitter. I think of it as a virtual office, basically.
If you've ever worked in a small development room with no cube walls - just some tables, a whiteboard, and 3 or 4 people (for example) - it can very easily become a fun place to get stuff done if everyone gets along. :) The dynamics are such that someone might run across a funny youTube video or a joke or have a programming question or comment, etc. and they can just blurt that out to the room. Others answer or not based on what's going on, etc. Perhaps a small discussion breaks out for a bit. Or maybe an impromptu huddle forms around one computer to work something tricky out.
To me, that is what Twitter is especially good at - replicating that kind of small group interaction over the net. It allows me to feel far less alone during the day than I actually am since I work from home now. It's not quite like IM or even a department/company chat room because I'm also able to "hear" the blurbs by certain celebrities I may follow or people I'm good friends with but who work at different companies or whatever.
If I'm busy, I just ignore Twitter. Unlike IM, it doesn't really "demand" attention - and I think anyone using a Twitter client that treats new IMs like a telephone call are doing it wrong. :) But the beauty of Twitter is that it can be used however you want - so my opinion really doesn't affect yours or anyone else's. :)
If you've ever worked in a small development room with no cube walls - just some tables, a whiteboard, and 3 or 4 people (for example) - it can very easily become a fun place to get stuff done if everyone gets along. :) The dynamics are such that someone might run across a funny youTube video or a joke or have a programming question or comment, etc. and they can just blurt that out to the room. Others answer or not based on what's going on, etc. Perhaps a small discussion breaks out for a bit. Or maybe an impromptu huddle forms around one computer to work something tricky out.
To me, that is what Twitter is especially good at - replicating that kind of small group interaction over the net. It allows me to feel far less alone during the day than I actually am since I work from home now. It's not quite like IM or even a department/company chat room because I'm also able to "hear" the blurbs by certain celebrities I may follow or people I'm good friends with but who work at different companies or whatever.
If I'm busy, I just ignore Twitter. Unlike IM, it doesn't really "demand" attention - and I think anyone using a Twitter client that treats new IMs like a telephone call are doing it wrong. :) But the beauty of Twitter is that it can be used however you want - so my opinion really doesn't affect yours or anyone else's. :)
A good tool for useful small-team, disconnected interaction is Campfire.
http://www.campfirenow.com/
http://www.campfirenow.com/
Campfire (and similar) limits me to communicating only with the people on my team/project/company. Twitter (or iChat which allows me to "Share text, files, and code in real time") has no such artificial group restriction.
The way I described Twitter recently to someone I work with was, "Have you ever used IRC or a chat room as a backchannel during a conference? Twitter is like that but for the rest of life." In other words, if Twitter is lost you you, then you are lost on Twitter. That's not necessarily a bad thing if you don't know anyone who uses Twitter, but you're missing out if people are talking about you or what products and services you use and create.
Twitter has been relatively useful for me when I've asked questions I couldn't answer (or didn't have the time to research). I've also answered questions from friends and colleagues about things like citations for articles and recommendations for tools, restaurants and so on. This "social search" aspect makes Twitter too useful for me to stop using it, though sometimes I laugh about how ridiculous some uses of Twitter are.
I've connected my Twitter and Facebook accounts so that my Twitter posts are used as my Facebook status, and for some reason I get a lot more replies to my questions on Facebook.
Twitter has been relatively useful for me when I've asked questions I couldn't answer (or didn't have the time to research). I've also answered questions from friends and colleagues about things like citations for articles and recommendations for tools, restaurants and so on. This "social search" aspect makes Twitter too useful for me to stop using it, though sometimes I laugh about how ridiculous some uses of Twitter are.
I've connected my Twitter and Facebook accounts so that my Twitter posts are used as my Facebook status, and for some reason I get a lot more replies to my questions on Facebook.
I don't fall into (1) or (2) either, but I still enjoy the service. I like it because it puts me in touch with likeminded people and keeps me up to date on what interesting stuff is happening in my city.
It's also a nice way to have interesting conversations "in public", where other people might chip in. The recent @reply changes have largely put an end to that particular use case, sadly.
Finally, it's directly and indirectly generated a lot of leads for jobs and projects (I do freelance programming). Not via shameless and annoying self promotion, but simply because people will often post if they need someone for a project. Staying up to date on the developer community in my area also means I don't miss meetups which allow for networking in the classical sense.
It's also a nice way to have interesting conversations "in public", where other people might chip in. The recent @reply changes have largely put an end to that particular use case, sadly.
Finally, it's directly and indirectly generated a lot of leads for jobs and projects (I do freelance programming). Not via shameless and annoying self promotion, but simply because people will often post if they need someone for a project. Staying up to date on the developer community in my area also means I don't miss meetups which allow for networking in the classical sense.
You're not alone. It's also for 24/7 news junkies meets ADHD generation. Daily updated blogs weren't short and frequent enough, hence Twitter.
Personally, when I'm not working I prefer to lose myself in a book at the bookstore. Being able to block out everything and completely focus your mind on learning something is refreshing and energizing.
My good friends will always be good friends, and despite being far away, when we visit every year or two, it's just like old times. I don't need to be up on every detail of their lives every second of the day in order not to forget who they are or our friendship.
Personally, when I'm not working I prefer to lose myself in a book at the bookstore. Being able to block out everything and completely focus your mind on learning something is refreshing and energizing.
My good friends will always be good friends, and despite being far away, when we visit every year or two, it's just like old times. I don't need to be up on every detail of their lives every second of the day in order not to forget who they are or our friendship.
Hallelujah, brother!
I, much like you, never found Twitter even slightly compelling. I even opened my own account and tried to get into it, but I couldn't and I canceled it shortly after.
It's been all over the news lately but I still can't find a real use of it. Not even for searching things.
Twitter is good for several things:
* Following celebrities. For instance, I am a huge bike racing fan, so it's cool to be able to get information from some of the pros like Lance, very directly. I even made a site to aggregate a bunch of them: http://www.bikechatter.com
* Search - you can keep tabs on search terms. For instance, I look for people writing about Hecl, and a few other things.
* 'Spamming' people. Either the aforementioned people who you find via search, or write about stuff you're doing to promote it. Well, not really spamming people, I wouldn't do that, but twitter can be a good place to "pimp stuff".
The first two really depend on other people wanting to express themselves via twitter, something I'm not convinced will necessarily exist long term. I think the "CB of Web 2.0" is a great label - we'll see if they can prove it false by being more than just a fad.
* Following celebrities. For instance, I am a huge bike racing fan, so it's cool to be able to get information from some of the pros like Lance, very directly. I even made a site to aggregate a bunch of them: http://www.bikechatter.com
* Search - you can keep tabs on search terms. For instance, I look for people writing about Hecl, and a few other things.
* 'Spamming' people. Either the aforementioned people who you find via search, or write about stuff you're doing to promote it. Well, not really spamming people, I wouldn't do that, but twitter can be a good place to "pimp stuff".
The first two really depend on other people wanting to express themselves via twitter, something I'm not convinced will necessarily exist long term. I think the "CB of Web 2.0" is a great label - we'll see if they can prove it false by being more than just a fad.
I'm sure there are others like you. Twitter is something that is very difficult for people to understand because it is many things to many people.
I just don't think you can split the Twitter community into two groups like that.
Flawed analysis.
Fail Whale :)
I just don't think you can split the Twitter community into two groups like that.
Flawed analysis.
Fail Whale :)
Two words: iPhone and Elevator. Twitter is a fun thing to check/update when you're otherwise unoccupied. When you're waiting in line, riding an elevator, in a dentist's waiting room, driving at high speed in the rain, etc. The iPhone makes the experience pleasant.
I find it to be a great way to communicate with friends and folks I'd like to know a little better. It's like IM but you don't have to catch them online individually or disrupt their workflow.
I don't have twitter account and I am not going to get one. Whatever _useful_ twitter does other tools do better. And I am not interested in useless stuff it is most effective for.
I think what you have said is true (to sum extent, i think there are 3 demographics though not to)as i have seen people not within those 2 demographics you mentioned have no interest to use twitter, however those 2 demographics are very large. There are alot of people who are students and alot of businesses and people looking at connecting for monetary purposes.
The thing is, when people who do not fit into those demographics sees that it is possible to make money and easily communicate,it drives interest, attention and people not longer within those 2 demographics to try and give it ago. Some may be successful in achieving what they want some may not.
As for the third demographic, lots of celebrities use twitter and i know people who actually just signup to follow and get the latest (semi truthful news as they put it) through twitter. They have a client on their fone and when a twitter comes from kevin rudd, or oprah or whoever they check it, give it a read and get on with their lives never writing a tweet .. ever !
I wasnt a big fan before but after using it, i find it totally indispensable in connecting and finding out what is going on. Hell i clicked on this link through a twitter tweet from @newsycombinator :P
The thing is, when people who do not fit into those demographics sees that it is possible to make money and easily communicate,it drives interest, attention and people not longer within those 2 demographics to try and give it ago. Some may be successful in achieving what they want some may not.
As for the third demographic, lots of celebrities use twitter and i know people who actually just signup to follow and get the latest (semi truthful news as they put it) through twitter. They have a client on their fone and when a twitter comes from kevin rudd, or oprah or whoever they check it, give it a read and get on with their lives never writing a tweet .. ever !
I wasnt a big fan before but after using it, i find it totally indispensable in connecting and finding out what is going on. Hell i clicked on this link through a twitter tweet from @newsycombinator :P
I'd put a third category of people in your list.
There are people who have a lot of followers due to them having some form of celebrity. People like Jeff Atwood have talked about how due to their large number of followers they are able to get very high quality answers to questions that they have.
For some one just joining Twitter who doesn't have a "name" in the industry this type of question and answer usage is alot less useful.
There are people who have a lot of followers due to them having some form of celebrity. People like Jeff Atwood have talked about how due to their large number of followers they are able to get very high quality answers to questions that they have.
For some one just joining Twitter who doesn't have a "name" in the industry this type of question and answer usage is alot less useful.
I remember when Guy Kawasaki started with twitter ("god help me, I am on Twitter" or something like that - he had no idea, like nobody else had). Now he has 125,431 followers and apparently the ability to "kawaski" a site (as I learned from tweetingtoohard).
I think with > 100000 it really becomes a different game. A friend of mine would buy any CD that Veronica Belmont recommends in her Twitter stream. She has > 600000 followers. That is an economic factor.
I think with > 100000 it really becomes a different game. A friend of mine would buy any CD that Veronica Belmont recommends in her Twitter stream. She has > 600000 followers. That is an economic factor.
I was having this discussion with a friend last night...
Like you, I have struggled to find personal relevance with the social aspects of the service. My friend pointed out to me that the recent mainstream growth that Twitter has been going through is starting to create a lot of services that lay outside the two demographics you mention. The one that I found most interesting was local businesses (movie theaters, coffee shops, restaurants) tweeting about day only or hour only specials etc.
If you start to think about the Twitter service outside the bounds of social networking there is a lot of potential value that is just starting to be discovered.
Like you, I have struggled to find personal relevance with the social aspects of the service. My friend pointed out to me that the recent mainstream growth that Twitter has been going through is starting to create a lot of services that lay outside the two demographics you mention. The one that I found most interesting was local businesses (movie theaters, coffee shops, restaurants) tweeting about day only or hour only specials etc.
If you start to think about the Twitter service outside the bounds of social networking there is a lot of potential value that is just starting to be discovered.
Just think of it as micro-blogging...all the admin is handled for you, so it's an easy way to post a simple thought/question/interesting link. I don't use it much either, but I've overcome my initial skepticism.
Maybe it's simpler to group the population like
1) People who find Twitter fun/useful & like it
2) People who don't
Both groups are OK.
"Twitter is what you make out of it" - Guy kawasaki
1) People who find Twitter fun/useful & like it
2) People who don't
Both groups are OK.
"Twitter is what you make out of it" - Guy kawasaki
Twitter is for the type of person who values simple communication. I use twitter at work and after or during long meetings you can see instant feedback on the meeting. Also its nice to have these simple communcations cause instead of being long emails or long conversations its like the short water cooler type things.
You don't have to 'get' twitter, if you don't it means either your friends and family don't use it or your just a very introverted person.
You don't have to 'get' twitter, if you don't it means either your friends and family don't use it or your just a very introverted person.
Twitter is a platform upon which social connections can be built and maintained. It's a very flexible tool for working within that social domain. It somehow gets even more compelling when you and all your actual real-world friends use it via SMS. If you are concerned with the social aspect of life and if your friends are too there will eventually be a memetic pull towards its use.
Have you actually tried it? I don't really understand the "I don't have the time" argument, how much time does it take to type 140 characters?
Also, you could set something up to tweet automatically, just for fun.
The nice thing about twitter is that it is quite forgiving. You don't have to read everything, and you don't have to be always on.
Also, you could set something up to tweet automatically, just for fun.
The nice thing about twitter is that it is quite forgiving. You don't have to read everything, and you don't have to be always on.
how much time does it take to type 140 characters?
If you want to say something thoughtful and not generate noise into the tweetsphere, it takes a long time and a lot of tries to express your thought intelligently in 140 characters. At least, it does for me. I agree with you, however, that he should try it. Twitter is one of those things that are hard to explain because of their simplicity.
If you want to say something thoughtful and not generate noise into the tweetsphere, it takes a long time and a lot of tries to express your thought intelligently in 140 characters. At least, it does for me. I agree with you, however, that he should try it. Twitter is one of those things that are hard to explain because of their simplicity.
i fall into the 1st demographic and I don't use my twitter account at all. I originally got it so that I could follow the Kogi BBQ truck but got annoyed at not always seeing what I want(seeing irrelevant @ replies). Here's what I would use it for
Very small group of friends (less than 5 or so) talking. Too many friends becomes Facebook and its news feed.
OR
Following certain news that updates frequently such as current surf reports, current traffic speed on a specific street, current location of something, etc.
I say OR because you should only do one or the other since (at least I can't figure it out) there is no filtering on Twitter. Therefore, following too many things becomes incredibly impractical. At the same time, these status updates of things that update frequently can just as easily be accomplished via RSS feeds, especially since there is no communication back to whatever you're following.
Very small group of friends (less than 5 or so) talking. Too many friends becomes Facebook and its news feed.
OR
Following certain news that updates frequently such as current surf reports, current traffic speed on a specific street, current location of something, etc.
I say OR because you should only do one or the other since (at least I can't figure it out) there is no filtering on Twitter. Therefore, following too many things becomes incredibly impractical. At the same time, these status updates of things that update frequently can just as easily be accomplished via RSS feeds, especially since there is no communication back to whatever you're following.
> I say OR because you should only do one or the other since (at least I can't figure it out) there is no filtering on Twitter. Therefore, following too many things becomes incredibly impractical.
There are clients that do provide this functionality.
There are clients that do provide this functionality.
If rss is not lost on you, then neither is twitter - it's just smaller.
It's a good way to keep up with what people in your field are working on, or what they're consuming that might influence their work in the future. If someone "over-tweets" it's easy to not follow them.
It's a good way to keep up with what people in your field are working on, or what they're consuming that might influence their work in the future. If someone "over-tweets" it's easy to not follow them.
I think an acceptable twitter strategy is to read your tweets once or twice a day. Perhaps it defeats the point of it but it's a way to manage the tweet-overflow.
I just check in during builds or on a walk, it really doesnt take a lot of time to keep up. That is the beauty of twitter aggregating all the content you want.
you know, those are such generic demographics that you could apply them to any communication medium.
i can easily imagine people saying the same things about email, the internet, instant messaging, etc.
i can easily imagine people saying the same things about email, the internet, instant messaging, etc.
Neither do I. I'm just occupied with a lot of other things.
I do not want to burst the Twitter love-fest bubble but am I the only one who feels Twitter is aimed at a pretty narrow demographic?
This demographic I would split into two: 1. People who have a lot of time on their hands to read tweets or add their own. For me this means mostly students and those between/without jobs.
2. Companies/Individuals trying to link themselves with this hot new trend for profit, monetary or otherwise. A win-win situation develops as Twitter's success can drive people to a company/individual and the company/individual will drive people to Twitter.
Why this post I hear you mumble?
For me personally, I do not fall into the above demographic. I have a full-time job which takes up all of my focus/attention during the day. I do not have time or feel compelled to check a website/twitter client constantly to read new tweets or post myself. And, to be honest, I already have plenty of things to read/do when my mind does need a wonder in the evening/weekend (Yes HN et al, I am looking at you).
Are there others out there like me?