Snowden Is Said to Renew Plea for Asylum in Russia(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Snowden Is Said to Renew Plea for Asylum in Russia
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/13/world/europe/snowden-russia-asylum.html
5 comments
> I'm getting more and more skeptical of any claims that all of Snowden's actions are part of some brilliant plan.
This is a very dynamic situation. I'm not going to fault the guy for trying, but he is obviously out-gunned. Everyday he avoids U.S. custody is a win. Personally, I think there needs to be greater efforts made at home to protect his status as a whistle blower. The current administration obviously isn't losing their interest in getting him. Perhaps the next one will be different (not holding my breath).
This is a very dynamic situation. I'm not going to fault the guy for trying, but he is obviously out-gunned. Everyday he avoids U.S. custody is a win. Personally, I think there needs to be greater efforts made at home to protect his status as a whistle blower. The current administration obviously isn't losing their interest in getting him. Perhaps the next one will be different (not holding my breath).
He is already a civilian and will not be court marshalled, which is why Bradley Manning is in a military prison. Ellsberg enjoyed the full rights of being a civilian when he leaked from RAND Corporation. The thing that a lot of people do not get is that the Snowden case would go through the civilian courts system. Sure the more sensitive subjects would be subject to injunctions and have be argued before being admitted to court, but the same thing is going to happen with the EFF case in the Northern District of California.
I tend to agree with Ellsberg regarding the unlikelihood of Snowden being free on bail. I think this government will claim whatever they need to lock him up and throw away the key.
Flag waivers aren't going to mind because the government is "just trying to keep them safe".
Flag waivers aren't going to mind because the government is "just trying to keep them safe".
it's likely that the guardian or the times or the post still have stuff to leak and the "damage" he's been doing will keep coming for a few more weeks/months. therefore he can't abide by the condition until the leaks are over
It's not likely, it's factual http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-s...
His transit through Hong Kong did not get him returned to the US, despite many efforts to make that happen, so it doesn't seem to have turned out so badly.
Regarding Russia, were Russia going to grant him asylum they would of course want to smooth it to the greatest extent possible, so it's entirely possible the earlier dance was a part of the show (Russia showing itself as a concerned partner, perhaps hoping for some American demonstrations of overreach that would legitimize the asylum request, such as attempt to harm or abduct Snowden). He is in Russia, so neither side has any need to rush things.
Not saying it's all a part of some brilliant plan, but things seldom are as straightforward as they seem.
Regarding Russia, were Russia going to grant him asylum they would of course want to smooth it to the greatest extent possible, so it's entirely possible the earlier dance was a part of the show (Russia showing itself as a concerned partner, perhaps hoping for some American demonstrations of overreach that would legitimize the asylum request, such as attempt to harm or abduct Snowden). He is in Russia, so neither side has any need to rush things.
Not saying it's all a part of some brilliant plan, but things seldom are as straightforward as they seem.
The whole thing just showed that Pax Americana is over.
And the damage was made by US government alone. The leaks were small enough to just let the whole thing die down. But by wasting enormous amounts of diplomatic efforts and capital they managed to lose face in front of the whole world.
And the damage was made by US government alone. The leaks were small enough to just let the whole thing die down. But by wasting enormous amounts of diplomatic efforts and capital they managed to lose face in front of the whole world.
How do you plan for a situation like this, and expect to know US' every step ahead of time?
I assume he didn't expect US would invalidate his passport that quickly, and get stuck in Russia. He wanted to flee to South America (Ecuador, most likely). But then he got stuck and Russia, and now he needs to adapt accordingly. Getting stuck in Russia wasn't in his plan, I believe.
I assume he didn't expect US would invalidate his passport that quickly, and get stuck in Russia. He wanted to flee to South America (Ecuador, most likely). But then he got stuck and Russia, and now he needs to adapt accordingly. Getting stuck in Russia wasn't in his plan, I believe.
I assume he didn't expect US would invalidate his passport that quickly, and get stuck in Russia.
He should have. In fact, the US were incredibly slow in doing it- they could have stopped him travelling to Russia in the first place.
He should have. In fact, the US were incredibly slow in doing it- they could have stopped him travelling to Russia in the first place.
So Michael McFaul, the US ambassador to Russia, called a member of the human rights delegation today and asked her to pass on to the message to Snowden that he is not considered a whistleblower [1].
This is deliciously ironic timing -- just yesterday, the US Embassy in Russia released a statement condemning the posthumous conviction of tax fraud whistleblower Sergei Magnitsky [2].
[1] https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/statuses/355704161536450562
[2] http://moscow.usembassy.gov/pr_071113.html
This is deliciously ironic timing -- just yesterday, the US Embassy in Russia released a statement condemning the posthumous conviction of tax fraud whistleblower Sergei Magnitsky [2].
[1] https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/statuses/355704161536450562
[2] http://moscow.usembassy.gov/pr_071113.html
I find this administration so infuriating. They are truly living down to my expectations.
It's not this administration or the last administration. It's almost all politicians. The next time we have an election, we will get to pick a new one out of a pool of several hundred people who are almost universally just like Obama, Bush, and all the rest.
As a whole, American voters have a really short memory. After 8 years of one party running the country into the ground, they will gladly elect a member of the other party, and then repeat the cycle after another 8 years of the same.
The worst part is that while even a bad plan can achieve marginal success, completely changing course every eight years guarantees failure.
As a whole, American voters have a really short memory. After 8 years of one party running the country into the ground, they will gladly elect a member of the other party, and then repeat the cycle after another 8 years of the same.
The worst part is that while even a bad plan can achieve marginal success, completely changing course every eight years guarantees failure.
That might be true, but where the hell are all the "Bush is a nazi" idiots now? It strikes me as very quiet on the left... do they not realize Cheney's vision is alive and well in Obama's house?
Because a big chunk of what we once might have thought of as the "left" in the US are really just cheerleaders for the blue team, without paying any attention to actual policy.
Of the remainder, a lot of people seem to buy the narrative that Obama's hands are in some sense tied, or believe that his judgement should be trusted and that he has our best interests at heart etc etc.
Of the remainder, a lot of people seem to buy the narrative that Obama's hands are in some sense tied, or believe that his judgement should be trusted and that he has our best interests at heart etc etc.
Refreshing; thanks for that.
I do not think he is considered a whistle-blower. I think he is considered a traitor.
I don't know about traitor, but clearly a fugitive and not legally qualified for US whistleblower protection.
Long time NYT subscriber here. I am fairly sure I am going to cancel my subscription. I don't like that they didn't even include Snowden's short statement; wasn't that newsworthy? I thought the opening sentence in the article did not set an impartial tone -far from it.
This reminded me of when the NYT helped the Bush administration make a case for invading Iraq.
The writing in the NYT is good and I generally enjoy it, but I want impartial news coverage that seems easier to get by a random sampling from a few international news sources on any story I am interested in.
This reminded me of when the NYT helped the Bush administration make a case for invading Iraq.
The writing in the NYT is good and I generally enjoy it, but I want impartial news coverage that seems easier to get by a random sampling from a few international news sources on any story I am interested in.
A comment on my comment: I just looked at other news media in the USA and a sampling from countries that are close allies of the USA. The NYT article was the worst as far as censoring the relevant news, that is, what Snowden said. All other news stories were both critical of Snowden, yet covered the news without censorship.
Loud flushing noise: my cancelled New York Times subscription.
Loud flushing noise: my cancelled New York Times subscription.
So, what are his prospects for supporting himself post-asylum/defection? Intelligence asset? Puppet for a leftist government?
Besides the White House petition, what organized efforts are underway to bring this guy back without rebuke?
Besides the White House petition, what organized efforts are underway to bring this guy back without rebuke?
He's a technologist; if he's allowed to work, there is obviously work.
I don't think I would have the stomach to run. He clearly faces a possible execution if he comes back to the United States, but I think at this point he's garnered enough support from the populous that there would be MASSIVE riots if an execution was passed or even being considered.
Plus, personally, I would rather come back to the U.S. and stand for what I did because (1) South America isn't exactly the most healthy place. (2) The socialist governments are using Snowden to get back at the U.S. and some of the rhetoric the south american officials said upon accepting his request would scare me more than facing a public trial. (3) If it was actually attempting to show the world what the government is doing because its morally wrong part of standing up for what you believe in is looking your enemy in the eye. He's made his point, clearly the rage the world and Americans feel is continuing to grow, festering under the surface. His best chances at survival are actually to come home and face the enemy, than run and get murdered in his sleep or simply disappear.
Plus, personally, I would rather come back to the U.S. and stand for what I did because (1) South America isn't exactly the most healthy place. (2) The socialist governments are using Snowden to get back at the U.S. and some of the rhetoric the south american officials said upon accepting his request would scare me more than facing a public trial. (3) If it was actually attempting to show the world what the government is doing because its morally wrong part of standing up for what you believe in is looking your enemy in the eye. He's made his point, clearly the rage the world and Americans feel is continuing to grow, festering under the surface. His best chances at survival are actually to come home and face the enemy, than run and get murdered in his sleep or simply disappear.
The US wouldn't need to execute him. Look at Bradley Manning: they could just lock him away in a foreign country until the world forgets about him.
I'm confused by this reply: when was Manning locked away in a foreign country? Wasn't he in Fort Meade since his arrest in Iraq? Is there any indication that if convicted by the military tribunal he will be incarcerated in another country?
Look, I forget Kansas exists every so often too, but let's not pretend it's a foreign country!
It was kind of a failed reference to Snowden being trapped in Russia. If the US can keep him there, he's effectively imprisoned until he can be forgotten. I didn't use enough words, I guess.
A few days ago:
>Edward Snowden has withdrawn an application for asylum in Russia, apparently deciding that he couldn't abide by President Vladimir Putin's insistence that he stop leaking U.S. secrets, a Kremlin spokesman said Tuesday.
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-edward-s...
First, Hong Kong is a perfect place to avoid extradition. Despite that, he then goes to Moscow. He applies for asylum in Russia, then revokes it, then applies again.
I'm getting more and more skeptical of any claims that all of Snowden's actions are part of some brilliant plan.