Instant Bitcoin Purchases at Coinbase(blog.coinbase.com)
blog.coinbase.com
Instant Bitcoin Purchases at Coinbase
http://blog.coinbase.com/post/55203204550/instant-bitcoin-purchases-at-coinbase
21 comments
Western Union would never allow their service to be used for instant buying of bitcoins, if they find out you're using it to trade any kind of digital currency they seize your next transactions and block anything going to your service. This is to prevent scammer MITM auction fraud, credit card fraud on their online transfer sending service, to comply with anti money laundering nonsense and to crush competitors.
MG is the same. To reach critical mass, you'll need to sign up existing stores or prepaid card distributors to sell vouchers for you much like how Ukash works. Then you can walk into a corner store and buy with cash a voucher to plug into the site and get coins immediately. For this not to fail like bitinstant you need a huge amount of VC finance to float between collecting cash revenues and fronting coins to buyers.
Ukash still isn't allowed into the US market, Paysafecard was only allowed in because they sold crippled vouchers that can't be used for online gambling. Bitcoin can be used for anything, so unlikely the feds would greenlight this either and not end up seizing your company and jailing everybody whenever Nevada government complains about your service enabling gambling that doesn't benefit them, or copyright lawyers cry it is being used to pay for one of those automatic torrent download services so you don't reveal your US home IP.
MG is the same. To reach critical mass, you'll need to sign up existing stores or prepaid card distributors to sell vouchers for you much like how Ukash works. Then you can walk into a corner store and buy with cash a voucher to plug into the site and get coins immediately. For this not to fail like bitinstant you need a huge amount of VC finance to float between collecting cash revenues and fronting coins to buyers.
Ukash still isn't allowed into the US market, Paysafecard was only allowed in because they sold crippled vouchers that can't be used for online gambling. Bitcoin can be used for anything, so unlikely the feds would greenlight this either and not end up seizing your company and jailing everybody whenever Nevada government complains about your service enabling gambling that doesn't benefit them, or copyright lawyers cry it is being used to pay for one of those automatic torrent download services so you don't reveal your US home IP.
That is not the case. Bitinstant has been using MG for a long time, they still use them today. The fact that Bitinstant itself has gone off the rails doesn't change the MG policy apparently allowing these transactions.
They use ZipZap which is owned by moneygram, it's a different setup where retailers can accept cash payments and isn't available everywhere like Wu or regular MG
Yes, ZipZap runs through MG's bill pay service, which is far cheaper than sending a regular MG and is offered at virtually every MG site.
Bitinstant isn't any more a scam than Mt. Gox is.
They're just both services that are run by folks who weren't expecting to hit the scale they are now, have no experience building financial systems, and are waaaay in over their heads.
They're just both services that are run by folks who weren't expecting to hit the scale they are now, have no experience building financial systems, and are waaaay in over their heads.
Bitinstant recently laid off all of their support staff and has gone quiet for nearly two weeks on support related matters. Their CEO, Charlie Shrem, used to constantly tweet several times per day. He hasn't tweeted in 9 days now and seems to have vanished (https://twitter.com/charlieshrem). Over the holiday weekend, their $8/mo SquareSpace account used for hosting their blog was suspended for billing issues (though they have since scraped up the $8).
Bitinstant is taking money from new orders and allocating it to old orders (aka Ponzi Scheme). I suppose that means that as long as new orders continue to arrive, customers will be made whole and eventually they could earn enough in fees to cover up whatever they did that caused the mess they are in. That's if someone doesn't complain to the FBI first and get them shut down.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128314.8180 (that is one of the most recent pages of a thread containing ~411 pages of complaints). The last few pages are especially disturbing.
Bitinstant is taking money from new orders and allocating it to old orders (aka Ponzi Scheme). I suppose that means that as long as new orders continue to arrive, customers will be made whole and eventually they could earn enough in fees to cover up whatever they did that caused the mess they are in. That's if someone doesn't complain to the FBI first and get them shut down.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128314.8180 (that is one of the most recent pages of a thread containing ~411 pages of complaints). The last few pages are especially disturbing.
Their bitcoin service to top up phones disappeared pretty quickly too and never came back, also their debit card service never happened. They used 'VouchX' which was run by a shady guy who disappeared after LR went pop so maybe that's why they can't afford staff.
Bitinstant regularly provides a worse price to customers than they could possibly have obtained on any public exchange at any time between receiving payment and sending the coins. Users can apparently recover funds stolen by BitInstant by making noise in public places.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ccjgh/psa_bitinsta...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ccjgh/psa_bitinsta...
Is this really 'instant'? I tried using Coinbase to buy Bitcoins a little over a month ago. Spent a week or so logging in repeatedly, including right at 6 AM EST, which is supposedly when the site 'resets' and the day's limit goes back to 0. I was never able to buy; kept getting "Sorry, we're over the day's limit" error messages again and again. Tried a solid 10 or 12 times over the course of a week. I guess that means things are good for Bitcoin if it's turning away that much business (I assume there are legions more and I'm not the only one), but it certainly sent me, for one, looking for alternatives.
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> instant deposit methods such as Western Union and Moneygram
Have you actually tried to send a Western Union lately? Ugh. It is a nightmare compared to just linking your bank account.
I use Coinbase because they don't support payment systems that cater to criminals.
Have you actually tried to send a Western Union lately? Ugh. It is a nightmare compared to just linking your bank account.
I use Coinbase because they don't support payment systems that cater to criminals.
> I use Coinbase because they don't support payment systems that cater to criminals.
Banks are little more than fronts for criminal activity.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/01/04/big-banks-and-drug-mo...
Banks are little more than fronts for criminal activity.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/01/04/big-banks-and-drug-mo...
Comparatively maybe less than .01% of all banking transactions involve illicit funds.
I had lunch with a DEA agent who claimed that 5-10% of all dollars transmitted by Western Union were the result of drug trafficking.
I had lunch with a DEA agent who claimed that 5-10% of all dollars transmitted by Western Union were the result of drug trafficking.
It's not shocking that a DEA agent thinks that 5%-10% of WU transactions are drug-related. DEA personnel are constantly looking for reasons to validate their own pointless existence. When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I would be incredibly shocked, however, if that number were even remotely accurate.
I've used Bitinstant, and it worked well enough (was a small transaction, however). My impression is that it isn't a scam, but more of a bunch of nerds in over their head.
Isn't that like most credit cards, bank accounts with online banks and creating a 'link' between bank accounts you own already at this point?
The problem is that most people who find themselves in need of Bitcoins for the first time need them immediately. Having to wait several days is a deal killer for many people in this position. That puts a huge damper on new adoption.
Lucky for coinbase is now prepaid credit cards you buy in stores have an activation delay for unknown reasons, here it is a 3hr delay and they don't bother telling you except for tiny fine print, and everytime you try to use it before delay is up, it resets all over so seems like your card never works.
So if people are still buying PPD cornerstore visas then they'll wait for bitcoins, especially since bitcoins are used for niche items like drugs (lol), VPNs/hosting, speculation or cheap remittance
So if people are still buying PPD cornerstore visas then they'll wait for bitcoins, especially since bitcoins are used for niche items like drugs (lol), VPNs/hosting, speculation or cheap remittance
I have an issue with Coinbase. I have an account that I opened a few months ago but didn't use. I'm trying to sign into it now, and it brings me to a screen asking for a code from "Authy" (whatever that is) or Google Authenticator.
Ok, so I grab GA again. GA wants me to setup an account using a key provided by Coinbase. Coinbase has never provided such a key to me, as I have never setup GA to work with them before.
Fine, click "Code not working" and they'll text the code to you. Why they don't do this to begin with, I have no idea. Anyway, its now been 15 minutes and no text has come through.
Exactly what is a user supposed to do when their entire login system is broken and offers no information on what to do?
Please, please, PLEASE test your systems BEFORE you go public and make big announcements.
Ok, so I grab GA again. GA wants me to setup an account using a key provided by Coinbase. Coinbase has never provided such a key to me, as I have never setup GA to work with them before.
Fine, click "Code not working" and they'll text the code to you. Why they don't do this to begin with, I have no idea. Anyway, its now been 15 minutes and no text has come through.
Exactly what is a user supposed to do when their entire login system is broken and offers no information on what to do?
Please, please, PLEASE test your systems BEFORE you go public and make big announcements.
Sorry to hear that happened.
Please send us a note on http://support.coinbase.com/
SMS is unfortunately unreliable in some instances. You should be able to receive a call with the verification code also as a backup.
Please send us a note on http://support.coinbase.com/
SMS is unfortunately unreliable in some instances. You should be able to receive a call with the verification code also as a backup.
If you have a discount phone service plan, e.g. Straight Talk, you may not be able to receive short-SMS/premium-SMS/texts-from-5-digit-numbers. I, like the other reply, recommend Authy. Also, barmstrong will probably chime in eventually.
You might try Authy. It's been working well for me.
To be honest, it's kind of creepy. I just identified myself, and they somehow knew what month and year I purchased my car, a list of names I may or may not have been 'associated' with, a list of counties I may or may not have lived in, and stuff like that. I'm not particularly comfortable with a company knowing that much about me, but it's already complete so... horse, meet barn door?
I wish they would at least tell me what sources they're getting this information from.
I wish they would at least tell me what sources they're getting this information from.
It's a standard service aggregated from public records, credit reports, etc. Sign up for any sort of ... anything, and you'll be asked these. UPS accounts, brokerages, Google Wallet, etc.
In many cases (I haven't tried this one in particular), the site you're visiting does not see the questions and answers, so only organizations that already know every detail of your life get to see them.
They seem creepy, but you have to ask yourself: why wouldn't some company know my address and who else lived there at the same time? The companies that send me catalogs and pre-approved credit offerings certainly know. (I forget the entire list of questions, but all the ones I've seen lately are address-based.)
In many cases (I haven't tried this one in particular), the site you're visiting does not see the questions and answers, so only organizations that already know every detail of your life get to see them.
They seem creepy, but you have to ask yourself: why wouldn't some company know my address and who else lived there at the same time? The companies that send me catalogs and pre-approved credit offerings certainly know. (I forget the entire list of questions, but all the ones I've seen lately are address-based.)
That's actually pretty simple. Equifax is the biggest provider of these types Q&A's. I'm not even sure that the company itself is exposed to the actual answers - I believe the credit bureau just responds with a pass/fail. Admittedly, it would be less creepy and more welcoming if they sent you to the Equifax website to do the verification. That way you would know that no one else actually has or will receive your personal info.
I'm not sure I believe that talking to credit report companies directly would be more welcoming. They'd probably try to charge you for the privilege of using them. In the UK they're quite known for giving out free reports, then sending you followups + charge you from the next month with no easy way to stop it (in some cases you need to sue them to stop). Not sure who I trust more - Coinbase or Experian...
They did have a blurb that said this was all "public information", but if I pop my name and car into $search_engine (for example) nothing relevant comes up.
Search engines haven't indexed everything yet. There are lots of public records that aren't indexed by google, unless they make the news or get the attention of some blogger. This includes civil judgements, tax liens and bankruptcy to name a few.
Our team at Startup Weekend actually worked on "Identity Verification for Developers." So I'm pretty familiar with this. These kind of questions are called "wallet questions." You can get a lot of them from county records, which are public.
What stops identity thieves from using these records too?
Don't suppose you could share a few links where I could find out about digging up this kind of information on myself, could you? I'm kind of curious to see what kind of data-trails I'm dropping :-)
(he asks as he starts dropping search terms into Google...)
(he asks as he starts dropping search terms into Google...)
I don't remember what other sites they were, but I've done this a few times for identity verification, seems like there's a central provider somewhere that does the same thing for different businesses
Same as everyone else - credit report companies. Experian, Equifax and others. Those already know all your previous billing addresses, credit lines, card numbers, etc.
Probably your credit report. The information you mention is what would be on your credit report, assuming that car was purchased with financing.
I have never financed a car yet my auto ownership history is in these databases.
I think they buy them in bulk from state DMVs.
I think they buy them in bulk from state DMVs.
I think the GP is correct. One such question is something similar to:
"You may have opened an auto loan in January 2010. If so, how much is/was the monthly payment?
A. $0-99 B. $100-299 C. $300-499 D. $500+ E. I did not open an automobile loan in January 2010."
Information like that could certainly be obtained from your credit report but I doubt the DMV knows how much my car payment was.
"You may have opened an auto loan in January 2010. If so, how much is/was the monthly payment?
A. $0-99 B. $100-299 C. $300-499 D. $500+ E. I did not open an automobile loan in January 2010."
Information like that could certainly be obtained from your credit report but I doubt the DMV knows how much my car payment was.
Does anyone a Stripe-like startup providing a service like this?
Welcome to the new economy.
Different strokes for different folks, but I'll never understand why someone would want to buy bitcoins with their personal info attached to the coins. It seems to defeat the purpose of a pseudonymous, decentralized currency.
What, did you expect bitcoin to suddenly create an anonymous economy out of thin air? Unless you can create value, and then charge bitcoin anonymously for that value you have to convert previous holdings into bitcoin. You can do so anonymously via cash P2P. But if you would like to convert funds from the current system, you have to 1) use the current system 2) play by their rules.
This really doesn't even hurt the anonymity of bitcoin anyway, simply buy your bitcoins, run them through a tumbler, and voila, out comes anonymity.
This really doesn't even hurt the anonymity of bitcoin anyway, simply buy your bitcoins, run them through a tumbler, and voila, out comes anonymity.
I've never used Bitinstant, Coinbase or any of the other services that would attach my info to btc. I've worked to establish trading trust with other Bitcoin users and have traded physical metals and electronic gear for btc.
It takes a little more effort but all good things do.
It takes a little more effort but all good things do.
It only defeats some of the purposes of the currency.
The purpose of bitcoin is that the user controls it. It's about trust. Do you trust a bank with your money? Cypriots sure found out the hard way when their bank accounts were suddenly frozen. Do you trust a government with your currency? Argentinians sure don't as they're experiencing 10-20% inflation rates. Bitcoin allows you to store your wealth without being fleeced by currency controls of parasitic central banks. It's refreshing and quite profitable.
The purpose of bitcoin is hoarding and speculation.
They're your bitcoins. You can do whatever you want with them, unlike fiat.
Correct, bitcoin lets YOU hoard and speculate - which is a healthy mechanism in a free market.
In our current fiat debt based system, it's mostly corrupt inside traders who get that privilege.
>> Correct, bitcoin lets YOU hoard and speculate - which is a healthy mechanism in a free market.
Not exactly healthy for something that's supposed to be either a currency or a payment method though.
Not exactly healthy for something that's supposed to be either a currency or a payment method though.
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I've wondered about starting a service to sell bitcoins via credit card but the catch is he service holds your coin for you for 6 months or whatever the period for chargebacks is.
Is that a viable idea?
Is that a viable idea?
Credit card companies and Paypal will shut you down for being "high risk" or whatever. I wouldn't bother trying.
Virwox.com does this. They hold for a few days and charge high fees, but they certainly don't ask for lots of information like Coinbase is now doing.
Also, if you happen to live in the land of the free you can expect to pay a few hundred grand procuring the proper money transmitter licences.
Buy BTC from tocomment Inc with credit card. If in 5 1/2 months the price of Bitcoin is lower, issue a chargeback and take no loss. If the price is higher, do not issue a chargeback and take the profit.
Sounds like a bad deal for tocomment Inc.
Sounds like a bad deal for tocomment Inc.
How can I see what level my account is at?
What are the limits for Level 1?
What are the limits for Level 1?
I filled out my verification details and it said failed to verify, you have 1 day to wait. Details were correct, so not sure what happened.
I was told "Insufficient Data for Questions". I guess my public record is not juicy enough.
Way to go Coinbase!
It's awesome to see some innovation coming to Bitcoin. This model (instant purchasing) is similar to Paypal's Instant payment, and even accounting for the risk/reward, I think it's an absolutely great method to help push Bitcoin adoption and position Coinbase for a goto for merchants and more importantly customers.
It's awesome to see some innovation coming to Bitcoin. This model (instant purchasing) is similar to Paypal's Instant payment, and even accounting for the risk/reward, I think it's an absolutely great method to help push Bitcoin adoption and position Coinbase for a goto for merchants and more importantly customers.
Instant my ass. It took 2 weeks for the ACH transaction waiting period, then they said they couldn't do it anyway because they were being my conscience for me & decided I was being to risky. Said to try again in 2 weeks. Not to mention the initial account setup time I've waited.
Needless to say I'm looking for a new btc vendor.
Needless to say I'm looking for a new btc vendor.
If I give you cash, can I buy bitcoin without the hassle of fully verified identification?
Love it! You guys keep getting awesome-er. If I may make one humble request...would love to see a lower transaction limit (<0.01BTC) in the API. My personal project (and I) would be forever grateful.
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This is huge for Bitcoin. Keep up the good work guys!
Think about it -- this is news because Bitcoin is a less approachable currency than....stamps, or baseball cards.
Those are simple because they are physical artifacts, but let us consider the process of using those for trade.
A thirteen year old wants to send $4 to his friend. He wants to put money in a pool to buy a 4-pack of Terraria on a Steam sale for $10. He will receive one of the copies for his $4. His friend lives in another state.
He buys an envelope for 20 cents. He buys a stamp for 46 cents. He tries to look up his friend address on Facebook. It's not there. He sends his friend a text message, asking his address.
He addresses the envelope with his friend's address and his own return address. He licks and places the stamp in the top-right corner. He folds the dollar bills in a piece of scrap paper from the printer. He seals the envelope and drops it in a mailbox.
Several days later, his friend receives the $4. The friend deposits this with his own $6 to get a Visa prepaid debit card. Friend uses the prepaid card to buy Terraria on Steam, a gaming service which requires an account and email address.
Now, consider a transaction of $50 for a baseball card. Sending cash in the mail requires two stamps and two envelopes.
Who sends the letter first? What happens if one letter doesn't arrive?
Even stamps and baseball cards can present challenges for real-world transactions where physical co-presence between two parties is not possible.
A thirteen year old wants to send $4 to his friend. He wants to put money in a pool to buy a 4-pack of Terraria on a Steam sale for $10. He will receive one of the copies for his $4. His friend lives in another state.
He buys an envelope for 20 cents. He buys a stamp for 46 cents. He tries to look up his friend address on Facebook. It's not there. He sends his friend a text message, asking his address.
He addresses the envelope with his friend's address and his own return address. He licks and places the stamp in the top-right corner. He folds the dollar bills in a piece of scrap paper from the printer. He seals the envelope and drops it in a mailbox.
Several days later, his friend receives the $4. The friend deposits this with his own $6 to get a Visa prepaid debit card. Friend uses the prepaid card to buy Terraria on Steam, a gaming service which requires an account and email address.
Now, consider a transaction of $50 for a baseball card. Sending cash in the mail requires two stamps and two envelopes.
Who sends the letter first? What happens if one letter doesn't arrive?
Even stamps and baseball cards can present challenges for real-world transactions where physical co-presence between two parties is not possible.
Agreed.
Now consider Bitcoin:
Somebody wants to pay somebody else for something using Bitcoin, but can't because You Can't Buy Bitcoins.
Now consider Bitcoin:
Somebody wants to pay somebody else for something using Bitcoin, but can't because You Can't Buy Bitcoins.
Tried to sign up twice. Didn't receive the required email either time. :(
We're a little backed up on sign up emails at the moment! Should be arriving shortly (scaling up workers). Apologies for the delay.
Still cant purchase bitcoin in the UK
Love it! Nice work guys.
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Isn't the point of bitcoin to stay anonymous? It's nice to be able to purchase it instantly, but it seems to be going against the purpose of bitcoin.
A feature bitcoin provides is it can be "anonymous", however most bitcoin purchases and purchasers don't need anonymity.
see here: http://zerocoin.org/
see here: http://zerocoin.org/
No. Bitcoin itself is simply a technology -- there isn't a "point" to it. Bitcoins can be anonymous if there's no information linking the transaction or public address back to you.
"the point"? no. More of a side effect, but something that alot of folks have clung to. In reality it's pseudo-anonymous, and depending on your interpretation, it's the opposite on anonymity: all transactions are conducted in the open. (the exchange of currency that is; not the underlying identity of item of value on the other side of the transaction)
Pseudo-anonymity is one point of Bitcoin, but the only feasible way to quickly acquire Bitcoins pseudo-anonymously is to buy them in person, which defeats another point of Bitcoin (it being an online currency).
For some people the point of Bitcoin is to get rich via speculation.
While your comment is very much true, there is some apparent snarky feel to it that seems unnecessary.
In my case at least, there is no speculation element attached to bitcoin. In fact, its volatility is very detrimental.
I am dividing my life and work projects between the US, Europe and Brazil. I'd love to be able to just charge people in BTC. I wouldn't lose 6-7% every time I needed to convert money from USD to BRL, or from BRL to EUR. I can't say how much easier it would be for me to report taxes...
Widespread adoption of BTC could be a good thing in itself. There are other groups of people interested in bitcoin besides the "fiat must die", the silk roads and the speculators.
In my case at least, there is no speculation element attached to bitcoin. In fact, its volatility is very detrimental.
I am dividing my life and work projects between the US, Europe and Brazil. I'd love to be able to just charge people in BTC. I wouldn't lose 6-7% every time I needed to convert money from USD to BRL, or from BRL to EUR. I can't say how much easier it would be for me to report taxes...
Widespread adoption of BTC could be a good thing in itself. There are other groups of people interested in bitcoin besides the "fiat must die", the silk roads and the speculators.
I'd say it depends on the person.
However, let's not get carried away. This is not instant for first-time users. You still have to go through verification and wait at least 4 business days for your first purchase to go through before reaching the qualifications for instant purchases. Coinbase really needs to adopt convenient, instant deposit methods such as Western Union and Moneygram in order to reach critical mass.