Want a job in Silicon Valley?(hiring.customerdevlabs.com)
hiring.customerdevlabs.com
Want a job in Silicon Valley?
http://hiring.customerdevlabs.com/work-in-silicon-valley/
75 comments
The living expenses are a real burden, and the average rental rates in the core of the San Francisco Bay Area have increased ~20-30% over the last three years.
They're building new apartments all around the bay now and the greedy realty vultures somehow think it's reasonable to charge as much as $3500-4000USD per month for them (one and two bedrooms). That's easily a mortgage payment on a brand new home out here.
The older apartment complexes have seen this and have been raising their rates as well (the monthly market rate on my apartment went from $2150 USD to $2750 USD in the last six months I've lived there even though it's in the south bay area).
The worst part of all of this is the realization that I'll likely never be able to afford a home out here (median house price is currently ~$500K USD): http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_23249121/bay-area-med...
They're building new apartments all around the bay now and the greedy realty vultures somehow think it's reasonable to charge as much as $3500-4000USD per month for them (one and two bedrooms). That's easily a mortgage payment on a brand new home out here.
The older apartment complexes have seen this and have been raising their rates as well (the monthly market rate on my apartment went from $2150 USD to $2750 USD in the last six months I've lived there even though it's in the south bay area).
The worst part of all of this is the realization that I'll likely never be able to afford a home out here (median house price is currently ~$500K USD): http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_23249121/bay-area-med...
Wait until you have kids and you want to put them through a decent school...then house prices go up to $1M easily. For a good public school district. Or you can try a private school, but they are crazy expensive and contribute nothing to your own equity.
How does a good private school for your children contribute nothing to your equity? That doesn't seem rational to me. I'd think that a great school of any type is going to be very beneficial to equity and life in general.
I think he means equity in pure financial terms. Really it's more about liquidity.
If you buy a house in a good neighborhood with good schools, your property values will likely trend up, even if they are higher to begin with.
If you buy a cheaper house in a bad neighborhood with poor public schools, you'll have to offset the monthly mortgage cost with private school tuition. This extra cost doesn't give you additional equity in your home, and there are no tax breaks like there are with mortgage interest.
In both cases, you'll have a place to live, and hopefully provide your kids with a good solid education. But if times get tough, you can always sell your house and reap some investment if it's in a good neighborhood. That is not always the case in a poor neighborhood.
If you buy a house in a good neighborhood with good schools, your property values will likely trend up, even if they are higher to begin with.
If you buy a cheaper house in a bad neighborhood with poor public schools, you'll have to offset the monthly mortgage cost with private school tuition. This extra cost doesn't give you additional equity in your home, and there are no tax breaks like there are with mortgage interest.
In both cases, you'll have a place to live, and hopefully provide your kids with a good solid education. But if times get tough, you can always sell your house and reap some investment if it's in a good neighborhood. That is not always the case in a poor neighborhood.
You got it right entirely.
And to make it plain for everyone to understand the insanity of it: A year in Elementary school is pretty much free in a Public School. It easily costs you $20K in a Private School. That's for one kid. Tack that on top of your $3K a month rent or mortgage and you quickly see how a six-figure salary does not mean much in this area, for anyone but the single 20-something.
I think it's a bit by design too, as most of the local economy wants young people, with stars and dollar signs in their eyes, who will work 12 hours a day while shacking in groups of 3 in 11x11-foot apartments. LOL
And to make it plain for everyone to understand the insanity of it: A year in Elementary school is pretty much free in a Public School. It easily costs you $20K in a Private School. That's for one kid. Tack that on top of your $3K a month rent or mortgage and you quickly see how a six-figure salary does not mean much in this area, for anyone but the single 20-something.
I think it's a bit by design too, as most of the local economy wants young people, with stars and dollar signs in their eyes, who will work 12 hours a day while shacking in groups of 3 in 11x11-foot apartments. LOL
Yeah, shame on the greedy realty vultures for charging what the market will bear. </sarcasm>
Funny, you should read Adam Smith's opinion of landlords:
http://geolib.com/smith.adam/won1-11.html
or quoting from mises.org(!)
Smith was even less kindly to the role of landlords, where he recognized no economic function whatever that they might perform. In pungent passages, he writes that 'As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords like to reap where they never sowed and demand a rent even for its natural produce'. And again: 'as soon as the land becomes private property, the landlord demands a share of almost all the produce which the labourer can either raise or collect from it'.
http://geolib.com/smith.adam/won1-11.html
or quoting from mises.org(!)
Smith was even less kindly to the role of landlords, where he recognized no economic function whatever that they might perform. In pungent passages, he writes that 'As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords like to reap where they never sowed and demand a rent even for its natural produce'. And again: 'as soon as the land becomes private property, the landlord demands a share of almost all the produce which the labourer can either raise or collect from it'.
But the housing market in California is arguably distorted; it doesn't actually reflect "free market" economics. So I think you're being a bit petulant trying to claim it's just about what the market will bear.
The market only bears it because the government (federal, state, and/or local) in some cases has arguably helped place realty companies and others in a position where they essentially hold a monopoly over vast areas of land and housing.
California also has a unique problem in the form of proposition 13:
http://www.nber.org/digest/apr05/w11108.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-19/jerry-brown-s-last-...
The market only bears it because the government (federal, state, and/or local) in some cases has arguably helped place realty companies and others in a position where they essentially hold a monopoly over vast areas of land and housing.
California also has a unique problem in the form of proposition 13:
http://www.nber.org/digest/apr05/w11108.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-19/jerry-brown-s-last-...
Rent is crazy here, no doubt about it, and from the submissions we've gotten so far, it's the #2 concern after visas.
I predict, extravagant housing prices lead to the competitiveness of other technology markets. But for the next 5 years at least, feels like there will be more investors, buzz and energy in SV than anywhere else.
Higher perceived chance of success worth increased rent?
I predict, extravagant housing prices lead to the competitiveness of other technology markets. But for the next 5 years at least, feels like there will be more investors, buzz and energy in SV than anywhere else.
Higher perceived chance of success worth increased rent?
Good call Ryan, on both accounts. On the wording, I've tweaked it to include "some of" the smartest people in the world.
But doesn't address the bigger issue of smugness, which I've noticed too. Certainly something in the SV attitude that includes a holy-than-thou vibe, but now that I think about it, I get that vibe whenever I'm around successful entrepreneurs - no matter what city I'm in.
Re the living expenses - it's definitely a deterrent if you're starting your own company. If you're working for someone else though, from what I've seen, the increased pay more than offsets the increased cost of living.
But doesn't address the bigger issue of smugness, which I've noticed too. Certainly something in the SV attitude that includes a holy-than-thou vibe, but now that I think about it, I get that vibe whenever I'm around successful entrepreneurs - no matter what city I'm in.
Re the living expenses - it's definitely a deterrent if you're starting your own company. If you're working for someone else though, from what I've seen, the increased pay more than offsets the increased cost of living.
> from what I've seen, the increased pay more than offsets the increased cost of living
Only if you're willing to downsize. Some people are, but it's a tough sell to lots of people.
Only if you're willing to downsize. Some people are, but it's a tough sell to lots of people.
Absolutely right. But who needs all that space anyway? Apartments are for sleeping...you'll spend all your waking hours at work ;)
>Case in point. This websites says "work with the smartest people in the world" as if SV has the highest concentration of intelligent people in the world and as if that's even a measurable statistic.
I'm born here, grew up here, and the recent explosion of the smugness really does bother me. Besides, I'm willing to bet that the "Smartest People in the World"(tm) are probably in Cambridge, USA and Cambridge, UK. :P
I'm born here, grew up here, and the recent explosion of the smugness really does bother me. Besides, I'm willing to bet that the "Smartest People in the World"(tm) are probably in Cambridge, USA and Cambridge, UK. :P
I would love a better job, but when it comes to the Bay Area I have a really hard time with:
1. Housing costs (too expensive)
2. Transportation time / locality (takes too long to get elsewhere in the Bay Area, probably can't live near the job because of #1)
3. Climate - San Fran is rather cold nearly all year round.
4. Because of 1 and 2 likely would not have a garage or space to do projects in.
5. Sometimes things seem rather legally onerous in CA/Bay Area.
6. Regional tunnel vision. When I lived in Northern California I got sick of hearing how it was 'the best place on Earth.'
1. Housing costs (too expensive)
2. Transportation time / locality (takes too long to get elsewhere in the Bay Area, probably can't live near the job because of #1)
3. Climate - San Fran is rather cold nearly all year round.
4. Because of 1 and 2 likely would not have a garage or space to do projects in.
5. Sometimes things seem rather legally onerous in CA/Bay Area.
6. Regional tunnel vision. When I lived in Northern California I got sick of hearing how it was 'the best place on Earth.'
All fair points, and don't forget the ever-present parking enforcers. I pay $100/month in accidental tickets despite being here for years knowing all the rules.
On the positive side there, there's an "energy" (please excuse hippie nonsense) to people here I haven't seen in other places. A kind personal momentum that is intoxicating - hard not to get crazy shit done around here.
Certainly not for everyone, including me on occasion, and it's got its downsides...but I haven't seen a place better for the ambitious to design their future than SV.
On the positive side there, there's an "energy" (please excuse hippie nonsense) to people here I haven't seen in other places. A kind personal momentum that is intoxicating - hard not to get crazy shit done around here.
Certainly not for everyone, including me on occasion, and it's got its downsides...but I haven't seen a place better for the ambitious to design their future than SV.
> and don't forget the ever-present parking enforcers. I pay $100/month in accidental tickets
A sad reality.
A sad reality.
re:6
Isn't it?
I kid, I kid. Mostly. But the revealed preferences of where people choose to move and at what price does say a lot about places. Most people, given a choice of buying a nice house in Fargo or Macon for $150k or a nice house in San Francisco or Palo Alto for $150k, probably will go for the latter.
Isn't it?
I kid, I kid. Mostly. But the revealed preferences of where people choose to move and at what price does say a lot about places. Most people, given a choice of buying a nice house in Fargo or Macon for $150k or a nice house in San Francisco or Palo Alto for $150k, probably will go for the latter.
A bit of a false dichotomy, no? The choices aren't necessarily Palo Alto vs. Fargo.
I moved out of SF about a year ago, I am now paying less for housing, in a better neighborhood, in Manhattan.
The alternative to paying ridiculous sums to live in SV/SF isn't a complete change in lifestyle.
I moved out of SF about a year ago, I am now paying less for housing, in a better neighborhood, in Manhattan.
The alternative to paying ridiculous sums to live in SV/SF isn't a complete change in lifestyle.
Until they realize their $150k in SF or PA bought a 11'x11' one room shed with no bathroom or driveway anyhow.
I think you overestimate how far $150k will go in SF ;)
The point is about what people are willing to pay to live in an area, though. The fact that people are willing to pay so much more to live in the Bay Area is revealing.
The point is about what people are willing to pay to live in an area, though. The fact that people are willing to pay so much more to live in the Bay Area is revealing.
are we talking about SV or SF? there's a difference...
you know there's more to the bay area than just sf, right? it's been beautiful where i am in san jose/cupertino for the past month or so.
I live in Austin. Same concentration of crazy smart people, only with less attitude. Did I mention that you can actually buy a house here? With a chance of paying it off? And a 25 minute commute?
THIS is why 1 of every 50 cars in Austin has a California license plate.
EDIT: there's less access to VC money here. But that doesn't seem to be stopping people.
THIS is why 1 of every 50 cars in Austin has a California license plate.
EDIT: there's less access to VC money here. But that doesn't seem to be stopping people.
I think it would be good for you to realize that what gives your life fulfillment (mortgages, shorter average commutes than SF) might not mean anything to other people.
I do - an excellent point. Don't get me wrong, I love coming out there to visit. (Especially in June/July/August.) But the cost/benefit seems way out of whack unless you've already done a startup & have an inside straight to more startup $, or already have family in the area.
It's not just me: http://www.quora.com/Silicon-Valley/Whats-the-dark-side-of-S...
It's not just me: http://www.quora.com/Silicon-Valley/Whats-the-dark-side-of-S...
Pleasantly surprised Austin's representation on this thread. My homage to you and your great city: http://hiring.customerdevlabs.com/work-in-austin/
Just submitted to https://news.ycombinator.com/newest if you'd like to get the word out.
Who do you suggest I pass interested people along to?
Just submitted to https://news.ycombinator.com/newest if you'd like to get the word out.
Who do you suggest I pass interested people along to?
Done. The Austin tweet is in my Buffer queue.
I suggest http://capitalfactory.com/, http://ati.utexas.edu/, http://techranchaustin.com/ for starters. Also consider hitting up http://austinonrails.org/, and any of the Javascript/R/Python meetups. Every one of them seems to be packed every week.
Happy Friday, 'yall.
I suggest http://capitalfactory.com/, http://ati.utexas.edu/, http://techranchaustin.com/ for starters. Also consider hitting up http://austinonrails.org/, and any of the Javascript/R/Python meetups. Every one of them seems to be packed every week.
Happy Friday, 'yall.
Any tips on figuring out good startups/tech companies in the area?
@throwaway1979, see above & good luck!
Dude, hook me up, I would like to move my family to Austin.
Here's a great starting point: http://capitalfactory.com/. They are connected.
Thank you!
If you know who's hiring in Austin, feel free to drop me a line.
I mean this in the nicest way possible - not as a troll.
The site needs checkboxes for 'are you young and innocent' and 'are you single and/or do you not care about your family and personal free time'
Those are two huge requirements for most companies out here, but they can't admit this kind of stuff by law.
The site needs checkboxes for 'are you young and innocent' and 'are you single and/or do you not care about your family and personal free time'
Those are two huge requirements for most companies out here, but they can't admit this kind of stuff by law.
Amen brother. As a wise man once said, it's not what you earn, it's what you keep.
I currently work from home and am interested in a new job in SV, however all of the companies I have spoken with will not allow me to telecommute 2-3 days per week.
I don't see any reason why I need to give up 2 hours of my day traveling to / from work on the days when I need to work exclusively on coding.
So I'll stay where I am.
I don't see any reason why I need to give up 2 hours of my day traveling to / from work on the days when I need to work exclusively on coding.
So I'll stay where I am.
I don't terribly want to move to SV, but I am a bit curious what this will return.
Sorry if I'm wasting your time customerdevlabs! I mostly signed up out of curiosity.
Obviously, though, if you want to pay me $150k/year, give me 3 months of vacation, let me telecommute 2/5 days, pay my moving expenses, and give me fun problems, I will move tomorrow.
Sorry if I'm wasting your time customerdevlabs! I mostly signed up out of curiosity.
Obviously, though, if you want to pay me $150k/year, give me 3 months of vacation, let me telecommute 2/5 days, pay my moving expenses, and give me fun problems, I will move tomorrow.
The only thing SV doesn't offer is 3 months of vacation - unlimited vacation on the other hand is fairly popular: http://www.quora.com/Startups/Which-companies-have-an-unlimi...
There's a war on for talent now. Be careful what you wish for.
There's a war on for talent now. Be careful what you wish for.
"Unlimited vacation" is also grossly misleading in SV though. I have seen very, very few companies that actually live up to their own hype about encouraging employees to take off as much time as they need.
More often than not, in SV at least, "unlimited vacation" policies is really just code for "don't take any". The small print is also "if you really do take a lot of time off, even if you're great, you don't belong in our Red-Bull-shotgunning startupy experience".
More often than not, in SV at least, "unlimited vacation" policies is really just code for "don't take any". The small print is also "if you really do take a lot of time off, even if you're great, you don't belong in our Red-Bull-shotgunning startupy experience".
It's the present day version of machismo.
Pretty much a lot like I feel. I'd rather not live in the Bay Area, but give a fat enough offer and I'd live anywhere.
The housing situation in the Bay Area is a real mess. That's the reason so few experienced engineers are willing to pack up and move there.
It's surprising to me that despite being so innovative and forward thinking, startups and companies in the Bay Area aren't realizing they have to accept this as a constraint and start hiring remotely and find ways to make it work.
Yes, it's sub-optimal to have a remote team in many ways when you're in the early stages. But you have to balance that against fighting for every new hire and then trying to avoid watching them get poached by the newly funded startup across the street. If I were starting a company in SF, this would be a major distraction and something I'd want to avoid at any cost.
It's surprising to me that despite being so innovative and forward thinking, startups and companies in the Bay Area aren't realizing they have to accept this as a constraint and start hiring remotely and find ways to make it work.
Yes, it's sub-optimal to have a remote team in many ways when you're in the early stages. But you have to balance that against fighting for every new hire and then trying to avoid watching them get poached by the newly funded startup across the street. If I were starting a company in SF, this would be a major distraction and something I'd want to avoid at any cost.
You hit the nail on the head. It kills me how much technology we have yet working with a remote team isn't even something a lot of top design teams will even consider. We have video conferencing in our pockets, but nope, gotta drive 3 hours (or more) every day in order to produce good design. It's baffling.
Yeah, every pitch for a SF company should include this http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/201... in fine print.
Interesting proposition. Seems like a no brainer given the dynamic of things today — the biggest problem is connecting the right candidate with the right opportunity, and half the time it's an awareness problem whereby the right candidate isn't aware of the opportunity b/c they don't sit in the bay area to hear about things through traditional channels.
I sit in the bay area. I hear about nothing. This site assumes that "I want a job in SV" necessarily entails "I don't already live there". Could I, already having a job there, try to find a different one via this site?
absolutely! If you're already here you're in even higher demand. Please send your details via the form or email me at justin at link's domain.
Does this remind anyone one else of the Grapes of Wrath?
Want a job in Silicon Valley?
NO.
You should never lead off with an open-ended question. And I seriously do not want a job in Silicon Valley, but that doesn't stop the recruiters from contacting me. If a developer with tons of experience hasn't worked in SV by now, they probably never will.
NO.
You should never lead off with an open-ended question. And I seriously do not want a job in Silicon Valley, but that doesn't stop the recruiters from contacting me. If a developer with tons of experience hasn't worked in SV by now, they probably never will.
I think you proved the usefulness of the open-ended question: filtering out people like yourself, who clearly aren't interested.
I have been here for the past 13 years. The cost of living has risen so much that I am considering a relocation. Housing prices are insane, pretty much every else is more expensive than anywhere else too. The traffic is now back to .com-boom levels and highways are constantly congested.
If you are young (20-30), single, and are willing to have roommates to group up into some apartment, then SV may be an adventure for you. However, as you grow in life, you will need a pretty high level of income to feel secure in this environment.
Start-ups would be better off setting up shop in underdeveloped parts of the country, however, as the cost of labour here puts a serious overhead over any fledgling company.
If you are young (20-30), single, and are willing to have roommates to group up into some apartment, then SV may be an adventure for you. However, as you grow in life, you will need a pretty high level of income to feel secure in this environment.
Start-ups would be better off setting up shop in underdeveloped parts of the country, however, as the cost of labour here puts a serious overhead over any fledgling company.
Forget Silicon Valley, move to the Research Triangle Park area. We have great weather, a burgeoning startup scene, great food, good public schools, great universities, "day trip" access to both the mountains and the beach, reasonable cost of living, a decent (but not spectacular) live music scene, and the largest research park in the world[1].
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle_Park
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle_Park
Props to RTP too. Not to mention better basketball.
Any site to get jobs there?
Here's one listing of some local startups who are hiring:
http://www.downtowndurhamstartups.com/content/job+board/1604...
Also, there is a "Tech Jobs Under The Big Top" job fair that is held periodically at the American Underground in Durham, where startups pitch prospects to come work for them. There was just one in April, not sure when the next one is. But check http://bigtop.it for more info.
http://www.downtowndurhamstartups.com/content/job+board/1604...
Also, there is a "Tech Jobs Under The Big Top" job fair that is held periodically at the American Underground in Durham, where startups pitch prospects to come work for them. There was just one in April, not sure when the next one is. But check http://bigtop.it for more info.
Why do you want to move people physically there? I could work there, but I can afford to choose and I don't want to move my family out, it's not worth it.
Taking a cue from another post currently on the front page; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5799838
If you live in the future, want a job in Austin?
If you live in the future, want a job in Austin?
I love Austin! Vastly prefer it to the Bay Area for a number of reasons.
This is actually remarkably similar to the Silicon Valley Internship Programme (http://www.siliconvalleyinternship.com) except that SVIP targets itself towards British CS/SE grads specifically.
According to some random cost of living calculator I just pulled up on google, I would need 150,000$ to live in SF based on my current salary, and that is a lateral move, are there dev jobs paying 2-300k in SV?
Yes. If your'e senior enough and are in a vertical that's in-demand enough, $200-300K is possible.
That being said, don't trust cost of living calculators, they are full of crap. Go on Padmapper and really scope out the cost of housing in your area. If you really are thinking about it, fly there and look at the actual costs of things.
Taking the mean/median of anything when it comes to cost of living just means you have a systemic way of calculating a number that has no relevance to reality.
That being said, don't trust cost of living calculators, they are full of crap. Go on Padmapper and really scope out the cost of housing in your area. If you really are thinking about it, fly there and look at the actual costs of things.
Taking the mean/median of anything when it comes to cost of living just means you have a systemic way of calculating a number that has no relevance to reality.
[deleted]
The OP is implying that there are an adequate number of qualified 'business people' and they just want hires that will do the dirty work.
There are an adequate number of funded startups that want devs/designers to help build their empires.
https://angel.co/jobs
https://angel.co/jobs
Cool idea. Make one for NYC!
Interesting arbitrage...
No.
Inspired by this, I think I came upon a startup idea that could actually work.
I'm probably not to pursue it (my job search is going really well and I'll probably take something else) but anyone who's interested can reach out. I'm not afraid to share the idea.
I'm probably not to pursue it (my job search is going really well and I'll probably take something else) but anyone who's interested can reach out. I'm not afraid to share the idea.
Case in point. This websites says "work with the smartest people in the world" as if SV has the highest concentration of intelligent people in the world and as if that's even a measurable statistic.