Obama threatens veto of CISPA bill(latimes.com)
latimes.com
Obama threatens veto of CISPA bill
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-obama-threatens-veto-of-cispa-bill-20130416,0,5917419.story
13 comments
I'm a cynic. All I can see here is Obama positioning himself to appear to be on the people's side diverting attention from the people's original demand of opposing CISPA in its entirety.
This posturing is just the thin end of the wedge, a mechanism to get CISPA accepted in the people's mind. It's classic car salesman technique; 'what don't you like about the car?'. Once you are in that dialogue it's just a series of checks to tick off before you are buying a car.
This posturing is just the thin end of the wedge, a mechanism to get CISPA accepted in the people's mind. It's classic car salesman technique; 'what don't you like about the car?'. Once you are in that dialogue it's just a series of checks to tick off before you are buying a car.
Can't we at least be happy he's in some way opposing this publicly?? Clearly if Congress gets its way this is fast-tracked no-questions-asked.
I don't know who on the Obama team is spearheading his tech policy-- but thanks. You're doing better than I ever expected you could.
This is actually one of the rare situations where I think it's not appropriate to credit the White House "team" for things. A decision to announce a veto threat, almost by definition, happens at the very top of the ladder. We really do need to be thanking the President and Chief of Staff on this, for listening to whoever on the team was spearheading tech policy and making a bold call based on those recommendations.
Obama himself probably doesn't know nearly enough about technology to make these sorts of decisions on his own. The difference between him and all the politicians who appear not to know anything about technology is that Obama hired a competent tech team and actually listens to them.
I don't think knowledge on the subject in this case particularly applies except in the opposite circumstance. Knowing nothing about passing a bill that changes the way things work currently is dangerous but being against a bill that does not do enough to clarify its effect on the status-quo, along with not having a deep understanding of technology, does not make that viewpoint any less credible.
Or it's political calculus...or he flipped a coin.
I think you're wrong. It's unrealistic for the President to have a strong opinion personally on every bill and item going through Congress.
He has a policy team that stays on top of all of it, and he is briefed as necessary.
He may have made the call, but the information and impetus to do so will have come from his team.
I'm looking for sources that describe the process, but I know I've read some Obama team related articles recently.
He has a policy team that stays on top of all of it, and he is briefed as necessary.
He may have made the call, but the information and impetus to do so will have come from his team.
I'm looking for sources that describe the process, but I know I've read some Obama team related articles recently.
Jesus Christ, can we just credit both the decision maker and the brief-preparer? Or do we have to fight about it.
Are you referring to Jesus Christ the Son, or Jesus Christ the Father?
And where, may I ask, is the Holy Ghost in all of this? That's who I blame: Absentee Holy Ghosts, never making themselves immanent in Creation and leading to creeping Arianism in the population.
No need to meta-fight it. Take a deep breath and acknowledge that you are officially old in Internet terms.
Now get off my lawn and no, you cannot have your ball back.
Now get off my lawn and no, you cannot have your ball back.
I swore I'd never be one of "those guys" who complains that a site he likes is going down the drain, but it seems like more and more of HN is dedicated to nit-picking these days. I guess I was wrong about myself. The foibles of youth.
It has its days. Certain posts attract more of the type of chatter you might prefer to avoid. Just remember that those people are wasting their time to post junk and not pursuing business goals to compete with you. :-)
The unfair part is when it's the type of chatter that you have an extremely hard time finding anywhere.
Nah, I think it's constant over time. Most people here are pretty goal-oriented.
Thank God for Reddit. If Reddit didn't exist as a contrast, this site would go down the drain.
Thank God for Reddit. If Reddit didn't exist as a contrast, this site would go down the drain.
[deleted]
While I'm sure the President doesn't research all laws he signs, Obama is somewhat tech savvy.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=k4RRi_ntQc8&desktop_uri=%...
I wouldn't be surprised if he made the threat based on his own personal moral ideology.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=k4RRi_ntQc8&desktop_uri=%...
I wouldn't be surprised if he made the threat based on his own personal moral ideology.
He also threatened to veto the NDAA[1]. I wouldn't put my money on him vetoing CISPA.
[1 http://www.ibtimes.com/why-did-obama-sign-2013-ndaa-after-th...]
[1 http://www.ibtimes.com/why-did-obama-sign-2013-ndaa-after-th...]
Obama disagrees with some details of the bill, not with the broad outlines. He wants the bill to pass, but he wants some also wants some changes made. He's using (threat of) veto power as leverage to get those changes made. A veto would be a blunt and somewhat counter-productive response, but veto power is the main piece of leverage that comes with the office.
So yeah, he actually likes the bill and the likelihood is that he will sign it or some form of it. The veto threat is just part of the dance.
So yeah, he actually likes the bill and the likelihood is that he will sign it or some form of it. The veto threat is just part of the dance.
Sorry for the dumb question: Is your comment about the NDAA or CISPA?
It's a general strategy, so it applies to the veto threats to both of those bills, as well as a number of others. I think it applies moreso to CISPA than to the NDAA, because my impression is that he has smaller reservations about the details of CISPA.
An NDAA passes regularly to fund the armed forces, including benefits for veterans etc. Every President in recent memory signed a bunch of them. That's not comparable to CISPA
I think it's reference to to the bill that allowed gitmo-like 'hold indefinitely' powers to happen to US citizens on US soil.
Most people seem to not understand that that's the same bill. The NDAA is an annual bill specifying the defense budget. The indefinite detention provisions that upset so many people are attached to that bill.
As the President cannot veto part of a bill, vetoing the NDAA over those provisions would literally mean vetoing the entire defense budget.
As the President cannot veto part of a bill, vetoing the NDAA over those provisions would literally mean vetoing the entire defense budget.
That's fine. Veto the budget. Send them back to the drawing board. That would have been the best outcome.
Same bill.
Also, the brouhaha over that bill is over how it might be interpreted in a parallel universe where Hamdi v. Rumsfeld doesn't exist.
Also, the brouhaha over that bill is over how it might be interpreted in a parallel universe where Hamdi v. Rumsfeld doesn't exist.
The veto threat is more than just a simple threat to veto, it's a tactic to make the executive opinion obvious and to try and influence lawmakers to change a bill before delivering it.
They obviously don't have to listen.
They obviously don't have to listen.
It's not tech policy, it's the national security council. If you read one of the linked articles (pre-veto threat), it's made clear that the executive agrees with the bill but wants a few more changes made.
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-obama-ad...
"We continue to believe that information sharing improvements are essential to effective legislation, but they must include privacy and civil liberties protections, reinforce the roles of civilian and intelligence agencies, and include targeted liability protections. The Administration seeks to build upon the productive dialogue with Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Ruppersberger over the last several months, and the Administration looks forward to continuing to work with them to ensure that any cybersecurity legislation reflects these principles. Further, we believe the adopted committee amendments reflect a good faith-effort to incorporate some of the Administration's important substantive concerns, but we do not believe these changes have addressed some outstanding fundamental priorities."
You have no friends in the executive branch. It is in their best interests to permit the most invasive and sweeping information gathering methods possible in the pursuit of their investigations. Keep in mind that the FBI and DHS, among others, ultimately report to the president.
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-obama-ad...
"We continue to believe that information sharing improvements are essential to effective legislation, but they must include privacy and civil liberties protections, reinforce the roles of civilian and intelligence agencies, and include targeted liability protections. The Administration seeks to build upon the productive dialogue with Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Ruppersberger over the last several months, and the Administration looks forward to continuing to work with them to ensure that any cybersecurity legislation reflects these principles. Further, we believe the adopted committee amendments reflect a good faith-effort to incorporate some of the Administration's important substantive concerns, but we do not believe these changes have addressed some outstanding fundamental priorities."
You have no friends in the executive branch. It is in their best interests to permit the most invasive and sweeping information gathering methods possible in the pursuit of their investigations. Keep in mind that the FBI and DHS, among others, ultimately report to the president.
Don't worry, it's just a PR-stunt. Just sit back and watch CISPA pass.
This was issued on Tuesday, before the bill was passed in the House by a veto-proof margin of 288-117. The only hope for rejection is Congress mustering less than 60 Yeas.
My understanding is a bit different:
* If he vetos, they have to vote again
* On the second vote, both houses need 2/3rds (not just the house)
* If he vetos, they have to vote again
* On the second vote, both houses need 2/3rds (not just the house)
You are correct. Both houses must vote again, and by that time many votes may change. A two-thirds majority in both on revote is required to override the veto.
I call BS. It's a cheap strategic move to weaken public opposition. The same thing happened with NDAA.
It's ridiculous this is being repeated ad nauseum. Yes, he threatened to veto the NDAA unless specific changes were made. The changes were made, compromised was reached, and he didn't veto it.
Agree or disagree with the NDAA, saying he threatened to veto it and then backtracked is just wrong. He threatened to veto it _unless_ it was modified, and it then was.
Agree or disagree with the NDAA, saying he threatened to veto it and then backtracked is just wrong. He threatened to veto it _unless_ it was modified, and it then was.
This is exactly the point being made. Threatening to veto unless minor changes are made is just a way of getting the public to accept a form of something they previously opposed entirely on principle. As the previous commenter said, it's a strategy to erode public opposition. NDAA was augmented and yet indefinite detention without charge is a reality.
I wouldn't want to program a big system with some of the people on this thread. I can just picture y'all screaming and forking the code base because we compromised to keep Windows XP support.
Bingo. You nailed it. We know who Obama is now.
One of the things that seems to be missing is an easily findable "Why CISPA is bad" page. There are tons of people speaking out against it, but all in generalities because they assume you know what is in CISPA already.
Now, let's see if he actually does it.
Now, let's see if he actually does it.
> One of the things that seems to be missing is an easily findable "Why CISPA is bad" page.
https://www.eff.org/cybersecurity-bill-faq
https://www.eff.org/cybersecurity-bill-faq
So all it does is make it easier for government agencies to request data from online providers?
I guess my biggest question is why the amount of time required to get the proper judicial papers can hamper government investigations.
I feel like when I talk to people about it I need to give them something to think about and a simple question to ask their rep/sen. Sure, it'll be skirted with "it's a requirement to ensure safety" but some people won't just buy that and will feel like they are having smoke blown up their ass.
(BTW, thanks for the link. For some reason I didn't find it myself on the EFF site.)
I guess my biggest question is why the amount of time required to get the proper judicial papers can hamper government investigations.
I feel like when I talk to people about it I need to give them something to think about and a simple question to ask their rep/sen. Sure, it'll be skirted with "it's a requirement to ensure safety" but some people won't just buy that and will feel like they are having smoke blown up their ass.
(BTW, thanks for the link. For some reason I didn't find it myself on the EFF site.)
Just like he threatened to veto NDAA. He will sign it just as soon as it hits his desk. This is a straight up lie.
I call BS on the veto threat. Obama gave the National Counterterrorism Center authority to examine government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732447830457817...
My last comment tried to justify why he wouldn't veto this. I am happy to be wrong. Still though, I see it as drawing attention to the bill to put pressure on the Senate. I just don't see how passing this bill as a Senator could be that bad. Pros: $$$, Cons: Young people don't like you. I tend to think that young people are less of a concern in congressional elections.
I wonder if Obama will do a better job vetoing CISPA than he did the NDAA. Probably not.
Why doesn't he just veto it instead of threatening to veto it?
He can't. It has to pass for him to be a able to veto it. Currently it has only passed the house. It has to pass the Senate. Then it will come up on his desk for his signature, and then he can veto it by refusing to sign it.
Him saying he will veto it, is like a courtesy notice to the Senate saying "don't even bother with this, it will get vetoed."
Him saying he will veto it, is like a courtesy notice to the Senate saying "don't even bother with this, it will get vetoed."
Because it gives Congress a chance to revise the bill before putting it to vote.
NDAA is a matter of international terrorism. It also heavily depends on how well the federal government does its job, no matter how distrusted the feds are. There is no sense in innocent individuals being locked, and even if it is, it will almost never happen.
CISPA won't kill anyone, it's a matter of top-notch economy for a top-notch sector. The choice is much more easy here.
And even if it passes, [REDACTED]
CISPA won't kill anyone, it's a matter of top-notch economy for a top-notch sector. The choice is much more easy here.
And even if it passes, [REDACTED]
>international terrorism.
Haven't you heard? Privacy = terrorism.
Haven't you heard? Privacy = terrorism.
Yeah the last time I trusted Obama to do something.......
Won't get fooled again on this one.
Won't get fooled again on this one.
I really hope this is legit. My understanding is that a veto threat is often just used as a bargaining chip. (As mentioned previously, Obama also threatened to veto the NDAA, so...)
If I recall, we were also supposed to get a number of days to evaluate a new law before it is signed.