Ask HN: Is it too early for me to find an angel investor?
7 comments
In my opinion, it's never too early to start building relationships with Investors. However, actively trying to fundraise might be a different story. From my experience, Investors want to see Traction because it demonstrates both Execution and Market Interest. Without Traction, the Investor is forced to fall back on other metrics, which may or may not be good indications of a good Investment (which does not help your cause).
My recommendation would be to work on getting some Traction before approaching Investors, but this is all relative, and only you know when you're "Ready". Considering that you do need money, maybe you could cut down on your overhead? Or maybe you could barrow from Friends/Family? I would consider approaching Investors without first demonstrating Traction as being a last resort; Mainly because you are "taking a chance" and with many Investors, you run the risk of a bad impression, or missing out on your "one shot".
In terms of your product, it seems like you're suffering from the 'Chicken Before the Egg' problem, where you need to attract two different groups of Users/Customers that rely on eachother to generate a Network Effect. In this sense, it may be worthwhile to brainstorm and find an angle (however small) that will allow you to build Traction. You need to get people excited. You need to get your potential Users/Customers to realize the benefits of this hot upcoming Service. You need to generate incentives and get people to "Sign Up" for your product. Products that provide inherent value and solve real world pain points are usually inherently effective in these scenarios. Point out the pain points you will be solving, show the potential for growth, and the Network Effect that you need will start to unfold; And it will grow exponentially, from potential Users/Customers, to Potential Investors, and finally to actual Users/Customers, and actual Investors.
Good Luck!
My recommendation would be to work on getting some Traction before approaching Investors, but this is all relative, and only you know when you're "Ready". Considering that you do need money, maybe you could cut down on your overhead? Or maybe you could barrow from Friends/Family? I would consider approaching Investors without first demonstrating Traction as being a last resort; Mainly because you are "taking a chance" and with many Investors, you run the risk of a bad impression, or missing out on your "one shot".
In terms of your product, it seems like you're suffering from the 'Chicken Before the Egg' problem, where you need to attract two different groups of Users/Customers that rely on eachother to generate a Network Effect. In this sense, it may be worthwhile to brainstorm and find an angle (however small) that will allow you to build Traction. You need to get people excited. You need to get your potential Users/Customers to realize the benefits of this hot upcoming Service. You need to generate incentives and get people to "Sign Up" for your product. Products that provide inherent value and solve real world pain points are usually inherently effective in these scenarios. Point out the pain points you will be solving, show the potential for growth, and the Network Effect that you need will start to unfold; And it will grow exponentially, from potential Users/Customers, to Potential Investors, and finally to actual Users/Customers, and actual Investors.
Good Luck!
I find myself in a very similar situation (married/mortgage/kid) building product fulltime. I intend to go on till I get some evidence of traction before I see any investors.
It sounds like your product is some sort of a marketplace where one side (sellers/businesses) will pay and the other side will come in free. If so that's one of the oldest games in town. And showing an angel that sellers will pay to sell/promote their product on your platform is not going to generate much excitement. (Sellers ALWAYS want to sell and will pay for customers if they see a particular system/channel working).
Your challenge will be to build up the user base quickly. Identify a segment (your customer's customer's perhaps) and offer some sort of an exclusive (you will have to pay for that discount most probably unless your sellers are willing to chip in)
If you do want to go the angel route immediately some options are > angel.co > local tech meetups > cofounders lab (I've found good entrepreneurs there)
Happy to compare notes, drop me a line at [email protected]
Cheers
It sounds like your product is some sort of a marketplace where one side (sellers/businesses) will pay and the other side will come in free. If so that's one of the oldest games in town. And showing an angel that sellers will pay to sell/promote their product on your platform is not going to generate much excitement. (Sellers ALWAYS want to sell and will pay for customers if they see a particular system/channel working).
Your challenge will be to build up the user base quickly. Identify a segment (your customer's customer's perhaps) and offer some sort of an exclusive (you will have to pay for that discount most probably unless your sellers are willing to chip in)
If you do want to go the angel route immediately some options are > angel.co > local tech meetups > cofounders lab (I've found good entrepreneurs there)
Happy to compare notes, drop me a line at [email protected]
Cheers
It is strangely comforting to know there are others out there in the same boat.
>> It sounds like your product is some sort of a marketplace where one side (sellers/businesses) will pay and the other side will come in free.
Spot on.
>> showing an angel that sellers will pay to sell/promote their product on your platform is not going to generate much excitement.
I was thinking along the same lines. The only thing that it may do is prove to them an initiative. On the flipside, it'll slow down adoption significantly.
>> Your challenge will be to build up the user base quickly.
Agreed. This is what is really motivating my interest in finding an investor now. In order for me to build up both customer bases, I'm going to need to give away the service to the restaurants and bars (paying customers) for a duration of time (I'm thinking 3 - 6 months). Once I get enough of them enrolled, I'll use gorilla marketing, social networks, and simple word of mouth to spread it amongst the buyers.
The problem I have is that pushes me out 3 or 6 months before I see any sort of revenue. On top of that, the cost of getting both user groups goes up as I attempt to expand to other nearby cities.
Thanks for all of the points man. I sent you an invite on gchat. Hit me up if you're ever in the mood to compare notes or need a wall to bounce ideas off of.
>> It sounds like your product is some sort of a marketplace where one side (sellers/businesses) will pay and the other side will come in free.
Spot on.
>> showing an angel that sellers will pay to sell/promote their product on your platform is not going to generate much excitement.
I was thinking along the same lines. The only thing that it may do is prove to them an initiative. On the flipside, it'll slow down adoption significantly.
>> Your challenge will be to build up the user base quickly.
Agreed. This is what is really motivating my interest in finding an investor now. In order for me to build up both customer bases, I'm going to need to give away the service to the restaurants and bars (paying customers) for a duration of time (I'm thinking 3 - 6 months). Once I get enough of them enrolled, I'll use gorilla marketing, social networks, and simple word of mouth to spread it amongst the buyers.
The problem I have is that pushes me out 3 or 6 months before I see any sort of revenue. On top of that, the cost of getting both user groups goes up as I attempt to expand to other nearby cities.
Thanks for all of the points man. I sent you an invite on gchat. Hit me up if you're ever in the mood to compare notes or need a wall to bounce ideas off of.
[deleted]
chanced,
I'm also married, also own a house and I've been through this. I hope you can get something useful from my comment. Our realities are certain not the same, but anyway...:
I don't know why you need money at this stage, but please, do not depend on angel investing right now. Do something that you can charge users for right now (today!). Charge them. Are those potential customers willing to pay you TODAY for the product to be delivered in X weeks? Do that. Do not play lottery with your life.
Angel investors will invest in pretty much two types of startups: 1) startups with crazy ideas that can make everyone millions or fail miserably (think color.com) 2) startups that have a reasonable idea with good traction where return should be smaller, but certain
That said, my opinion is for you to get users to pay you right now or try to do some consulting and build something people will pay for immediately.
This was a very honest comment, best of luck to you.
I'm also married, also own a house and I've been through this. I hope you can get something useful from my comment. Our realities are certain not the same, but anyway...:
I don't know why you need money at this stage, but please, do not depend on angel investing right now. Do something that you can charge users for right now (today!). Charge them. Are those potential customers willing to pay you TODAY for the product to be delivered in X weeks? Do that. Do not play lottery with your life.
Angel investors will invest in pretty much two types of startups: 1) startups with crazy ideas that can make everyone millions or fail miserably (think color.com) 2) startups that have a reasonable idea with good traction where return should be smaller, but certain
That said, my opinion is for you to get users to pay you right now or try to do some consulting and build something people will pay for immediately.
This was a very honest comment, best of luck to you.
eduardordm,
First off, thank you for the response.
>> I don't know why you need money at this stage, but please, do not depend on angel investing right now. Do something that you can charge users for right now (today!). Charge them. Are those potential customers willing to pay you TODAY for the product to be delivered in X weeks? Do that. Do not play lottery with your life.
Great advice and I wish I could follow it. My service has a co-dependent userbase. My customers are businesses that only get value if the end-users are present. I've asked a number of them and while they are willing to give it a shot, they won't pay for it until the other userbase is sufficiently established.
>>Angel investors will invest in pretty much two types of startups: 1) startups with crazy ideas that can make everyone millions or fail miserably (think color.com) 2) startups that have a reasonable idea with good traction where return should be smaller
Very well put. I believe it falls into the first category but ultimately the opinions of the angels is what matters there.
>> try to do some consulting I have been; unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of work right now in my area & for whatever reason, telecommute gigs aren't popping up right now.
I think I'm going to continue to push ahead and hopefully build out both users bases in my area. It'll mean giving the service away for awhile but hopefully that'll be enough to garnish some weight when I cold-call angels.
First off, thank you for the response.
>> I don't know why you need money at this stage, but please, do not depend on angel investing right now. Do something that you can charge users for right now (today!). Charge them. Are those potential customers willing to pay you TODAY for the product to be delivered in X weeks? Do that. Do not play lottery with your life.
Great advice and I wish I could follow it. My service has a co-dependent userbase. My customers are businesses that only get value if the end-users are present. I've asked a number of them and while they are willing to give it a shot, they won't pay for it until the other userbase is sufficiently established.
>>Angel investors will invest in pretty much two types of startups: 1) startups with crazy ideas that can make everyone millions or fail miserably (think color.com) 2) startups that have a reasonable idea with good traction where return should be smaller
Very well put. I believe it falls into the first category but ultimately the opinions of the angels is what matters there.
>> try to do some consulting I have been; unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of work right now in my area & for whatever reason, telecommute gigs aren't popping up right now.
I think I'm going to continue to push ahead and hopefully build out both users bases in my area. It'll mean giving the service away for awhile but hopefully that'll be enough to garnish some weight when I cold-call angels.
I was thinking about trying to go the angel.co route but it seems like pretty much all of the companies there are well past their seed investment. Beyond that, I think an in-person pitch would do me much, much better than hoping an investor finds me on what I can only imagine is a massive database full of startups ranging from vaporware to etsy
I think you need something you can charge for immediately, like eduardordm said. I understand that you have a marketplace of sorts where two parties must meet prior to a transaction but it's very unclear what it is you're doing.
The fact that you have an MVP, you're already talking to prospects and there are barriers to entry that you're having difficulty with makes me ask, why the secrecy? People would have trouble catching up to you at this point, and even if they did, they would face the same problems you're currently having.
This conversation would probably be much better and more helpful if people knew what you're doing. Then their answers wouldn't be, "find something to charge for", they would probably be, "You could probably do X for the side of the marketplace you have currently until the other side shows up. Charge them for that to keep you going for now."
The fact that you have an MVP, you're already talking to prospects and there are barriers to entry that you're having difficulty with makes me ask, why the secrecy? People would have trouble catching up to you at this point, and even if they did, they would face the same problems you're currently having.
This conversation would probably be much better and more helpful if people knew what you're doing. Then their answers wouldn't be, "find something to charge for", they would probably be, "You could probably do X for the side of the marketplace you have currently until the other side shows up. Charge them for that to keep you going for now."
That's a great point. I guess my fear is that if I have to get a full-time job that it will delay me enough for someone else time to get their own MVP done. Since the application is geo-centric, they would just need to make it into markets that I'm not in yet. Groupon vs LivingSocial, for instance.
Having said that, I recognize that you guys are shooting in the dark. There's very little you can do without knowing what the application is. I'm putting together a demo to cut down on the time it takes me to present to restaurants & bars (my customers). I'm also in the middle of making some changes based on some initial feedback. Once I'm done, I'll consider posting it on this thread.
Thanks for your help man.
Having said that, I recognize that you guys are shooting in the dark. There's very little you can do without knowing what the application is. I'm putting together a demo to cut down on the time it takes me to present to restaurants & bars (my customers). I'm also in the middle of making some changes based on some initial feedback. Once I'm done, I'll consider posting it on this thread.
Thanks for your help man.
I've made deals with restaurants/bars/chefs/etc before and one piece of advice I can share that could be a huge help is to find an 'insider'. Not sure where you're living, but in certain scenes (food towns) there will be an abundance of foodies. Find one to help you.
I was in NYC when I was working on a marketplace in the food/social space and we got an intern who was awesome. He was a food blogger and knew the lay of the land better than I ever could. He knew restaurant owners by first name and they knew him. He afforded us instant trust and he knew the best prospects based on what we were wanting to accomplish.
Unless you're that guy who knows everybody, do this. Email me if you ever have any questions. Happy to help.
I was in NYC when I was working on a marketplace in the food/social space and we got an intern who was awesome. He was a food blogger and knew the lay of the land better than I ever could. He knew restaurant owners by first name and they knew him. He afforded us instant trust and he knew the best prospects based on what we were wanting to accomplish.
Unless you're that guy who knows everybody, do this. Email me if you ever have any questions. Happy to help.
[deleted]
The thing is, I'm running out of money. I'm married, I own a house and I'm pushing 30 so "scrubbing it" for a few more months isn't an option.
I'm pretty confident that if I were to get in front of investors that I could convince at least one that he/she should gamble on both the product and, perhaps even more importantly, me. I'm just really concerned about getting the chance to even pitch it. I live down in the south east where the population thinks a SaaS must be something that goes on a BBQ sandwich and an angel is, and forever will be, solely biblical.
I greatly appreciate any/all opinions, suggestions, rants or pretty much any thoughts you may be willing to share.
Thanks