Friend is deported. What now? LonDumb - Part II(trickaduu.com)
trickaduu.com
Friend is deported. What now? LonDumb - Part II
http://trickaduu.com/2012/12/11/londumb-part-ii/
31 comments
Yeah, I think she probably tripped over the no-work stuff. So you're a professional singer? Going to be doing any singing? You are, but you just said you're not going to be working over here...
There's really no need for the whole thing to be so damn Kafkaesque (shut in empty rooms, not told what's going on for hours), but in all likelihood that's more to do with the sheer incompetence of UK airport staff than any actual malice. And they really are incompetent.
I saw a fight break out in the passport line at heathrow airport one day, over a racist slur. I was amazed how far the staff let it go, they seemed compltely disinterested. In fact other civilians had to restrain the two fighters and the staff still did nothing until some of us started shouting "Aren't you going to get off your arses and bloody do anything?"
Useless bastards...
There's really no need for the whole thing to be so damn Kafkaesque (shut in empty rooms, not told what's going on for hours), but in all likelihood that's more to do with the sheer incompetence of UK airport staff than any actual malice. And they really are incompetent.
I saw a fight break out in the passport line at heathrow airport one day, over a racist slur. I was amazed how far the staff let it go, they seemed compltely disinterested. In fact other civilians had to restrain the two fighters and the staff still did nothing until some of us started shouting "Aren't you going to get off your arses and bloody do anything?"
Useless bastards...
I don't know how the UK does it, but the rule in Mexico is that people without work visas can't do anything people normally get paid for. I think that's to minimize shenanigans. "No, officer, I just wait tables here for fun. Nope, no pay. Why would they pay me?"
So if I go to Mexico, I can't code for fun on my laptop? I hope that's not the case.
You can code for fun, but my understanding is you can't do it for a Mexican entity. E.g., if you're hanging out at cafe and say, "Hey, let me make a website for you guys," that would be illegal. Actual enforcement varies, of course.
You can, but you should not be paid for that by Mexican company or individual
I know there are specific exemptions for some stuff in the UK - tech support is one of these. If you have sold hardware or software to a UK company, you're allowed to come into the country and fix it with no special visa. Anything other than directly fixing the problem would be considered consultancy and a visa violation.
There are some other exceptions but most work or work-like activities you'd need a visa of some sort for.
There are some other exceptions but most work or work-like activities you'd need a visa of some sort for.
That seems to be a strange criterion.
The waiting tables example is "obvious", and while some activities are only compensated for a small elite (playing basketball, musical performance), there are a lot of activities that might be compensated and might not. Or be compensated indirectly.
For example, speaking at an academic or professional conference is "work", but it is probably not compensated (except possibly for a keynote or lead speaker). An author giving a book tour is work, but they are not getting paid for talks - instead, they may be "paid" in greater exposure for their work and possible increased sales.
The waiting tables example is "obvious", and while some activities are only compensated for a small elite (playing basketball, musical performance), there are a lot of activities that might be compensated and might not. Or be compensated indirectly.
For example, speaking at an academic or professional conference is "work", but it is probably not compensated (except possibly for a keynote or lead speaker). An author giving a book tour is work, but they are not getting paid for talks - instead, they may be "paid" in greater exposure for their work and possible increased sales.
I see how Heathrow's 4 hour immigration line could lead to this kind of thing. And if the staff (or UK government) really cared, they wouldn't have a 4 hour immigration line. Tip: never fly to Heathrow directly from outside the EU.
They are useless. The amount of times I was cursed at and asked if I had nothing better to be doing than checking up on my friend was ridiculous.
Yeah, I found it really, really hard to read. I suspect it won't get many up-votes here because of that.
Immigration 101: just say you come to see Big Ben and Tower Bridge.
Indeed.
London 101 though: It's tricky to see Big Ben as it's one of the bells housed inside the tower. The tower is officially called "Elizabeth Tower" (recently changed from the "Clock Tower" in honour of the Jubilee).
There are tours to see the bells (and Big Ben itself) but they seem to be only available to UK residents via their MPs. I've never bothered to try (I'd rather sort out a tour of Lord's cricket ground first).
London 101 though: It's tricky to see Big Ben as it's one of the bells housed inside the tower. The tower is officially called "Elizabeth Tower" (recently changed from the "Clock Tower" in honour of the Jubilee).
There are tours to see the bells (and Big Ben itself) but they seem to be only available to UK residents via their MPs. I've never bothered to try (I'd rather sort out a tour of Lord's cricket ground first).
Apologies. I must learn how to. Write.
I've realised a good analogy would be if a golfer was going somewhere on holidays and was going to play a few rounds of leisurely golf with friends while he was there.
The thing with the woman officer who stopped my friend and then interviewed her was that woman lied saying that she phoned music venues and they told her how many thousands of pounds my friend was going to be making. Completely. Ridiculously. Fabricated. Just started making stuff up to back up her case.
I've realised a good analogy would be if a golfer was going somewhere on holidays and was going to play a few rounds of leisurely golf with friends while he was there.
The thing with the woman officer who stopped my friend and then interviewed her was that woman lied saying that she phoned music venues and they told her how many thousands of pounds my friend was going to be making. Completely. Ridiculously. Fabricated. Just started making stuff up to back up her case.
I think the style is appealing: conversational, casual, stream-of-consciousness. He's using full stops to indicate longer pauses, not normal sentence structure. I'm sure it's a choice; the guy's first book has 100 Amazon reviews, most very positive: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1905483902
That said, it's terrible for the typical HN purpose, which is to extract maximum information in minimum time. I skimmed a bit, said, "Wha?" and moved on.
That said, it's terrible for the typical HN purpose, which is to extract maximum information in minimum time. I skimmed a bit, said, "Wha?" and moved on.
Good to know, maximum info in minimum time, cheers!
I have more than a folder full of paper work for visa applications that I have done over the years, mostly just to let me into countries for a visit, let alone work. Apart from that the paperwork I had to do to actually allow me to work in various countries. I am extremely careful about not breaking any immigration laws in any of the countries, e.g. not do anything that resembles paid or unpaid work except what's explicitly allowed in my visa. Once you get caught breaking immigration rules in one country, it becomes really hard to travel to other countries with strict immigration controls.
I tend to read about people who travel and casually break immigration rules with a certain level of schadenfreude, whether it's singers just casually lining up some gigs or people who overstay their 3 month visa waiver to the USA.
Some people think filling in an ESTA is effort (man I have to spend weeks preparing paperwork to be able to be granted a visa that allows me to fill in an ESTA in the first place), but events like these make me realise that at least some people get a small taste of what it's like for the rest of us who spend part of our lives having to deal with ever changing rules and paperwork and being at the mercy of the mood of an immigration official.
I tend to read about people who travel and casually break immigration rules with a certain level of schadenfreude, whether it's singers just casually lining up some gigs or people who overstay their 3 month visa waiver to the USA.
Some people think filling in an ESTA is effort (man I have to spend weeks preparing paperwork to be able to be granted a visa that allows me to fill in an ESTA in the first place), but events like these make me realise that at least some people get a small taste of what it's like for the rest of us who spend part of our lives having to deal with ever changing rules and paperwork and being at the mercy of the mood of an immigration official.
There is no ESTA to fill in going to the UK from the US (that I'm aware of anyway). No rules were being broken either. Just being too honest and excited coupled with not fully realising she should've just said on holiday and nothing else. I get to deal with changing rules and paperwork and being at the mercy of the mood of an immigration official all the time too, so I don't think it's just you or a certain kind of person.
What country is that, which makes things so complicated?
Not to take away from the subject, but these EU-mandated cookie notices are really starting to get annoying. How long until you have to consent to the entire T&C of a site and verify your age to get in? </rant>
I noticed them so far only on UK based websites. Is this a EU wide phenomenon?
My dealings with government officials is never give them more information than they ask and always tell the truth. If you need to lie believe the lie until it is the truth ;).
If you are in transit, quite common for Heathrow, don't mention you have family in the UK unless they ask for family in the UK. If they do ask know where they live. If you have a tourist visa don't mention work you plan to or might be doing in the near future in the UK.
They are there to try and trip you up in a lie so they can question you further. You know how you can tell someone is lying by the way they go into too much detail on some aspects of their story but not others, don't be that person.
If you are in transit, quite common for Heathrow, don't mention you have family in the UK unless they ask for family in the UK. If they do ask know where they live. If you have a tourist visa don't mention work you plan to or might be doing in the near future in the UK.
They are there to try and trip you up in a lie so they can question you further. You know how you can tell someone is lying by the way they go into too much detail on some aspects of their story but not others, don't be that person.
Yesterday the census results were published: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20677515
They showed that Britain had experienced such massive immigration in the past ten years that native Britons are now a minority in their own capital city. Given that, it's not surprising if immigration officials are becoming a little over zealous.
They showed that Britain had experienced such massive immigration in the past ten years that native Britons are now a minority in their own capital city. Given that, it's not surprising if immigration officials are becoming a little over zealous.
Interesting read,still cant believe they deported your girlfriend even though she had a return ticket. That is incredible!
The take away here, and this is really true of any country, not just the UK, is that it's a bad idea to suggest you're doing anything that could be construed to be paid work. I can virtually guarantee that if I turned up at the US border on a visa waiver and said I was a musician playing a few gigs they'd send me off for a secondary questioning at the very least. I wouldn't be surprised if I was refused entry.
The return ticket doesn't really factor into it: whether you're entering the UK, US, wherever - generally if you're going in on a tourist visa / waiver you can't work. And unless you have some documentation indicating your gigs are unpaid, you've only got your word...which isn't worth much.
The return ticket doesn't really factor into it: whether you're entering the UK, US, wherever - generally if you're going in on a tourist visa / waiver you can't work. And unless you have some documentation indicating your gigs are unpaid, you've only got your word...which isn't worth much.
The problem came because on the visa form it said occupation and singer was put down. When asked why she was there, she said holiday. Then being too honest when asked, she said she had some small non-paying gigs. I can understand how this might lead to secondary inspection but after phoning the venue (who told her they were non-paying, small and promotional) the immigration official went off on a lie claiming she knows how many thousands of pounds my friend was going to be paid and that they were big events (small open mic at a pub where my friend could do a few songs for London friends). The woman even admitted to me hours later that she made a mistake but claimed she couldn't reverse the paperwork.
With the US it's been fine for me to go over and work as a technical trainer in our US office for a few weeks at a time, but I declared everything on the VISA waiver.
I'm not sure on the specific rules for the UK, but yeah 'I'm going to play a few gigs, but, uh, don't worry I'm not getting paid for them' probably is a bad thing to say.
I'm not sure on the specific rules for the UK, but yeah 'I'm going to play a few gigs, but, uh, don't worry I'm not getting paid for them' probably is a bad thing to say.
I am sorry she got deported but between the fonts, short sentences and colors I already have a headache...at maybe 20% of the article.
sorry for being off topic but it annoyed the hell out of me.
sorry for being off topic but it annoyed the hell out of me.
However, I read enough to discover how the deportation started, and I can understand why an official would have difficulty believing that a professional singer would be performing publicly for no comercial gain, if not for a charity gig.