Microsoft's big Windows 8 secret? It's actually about advertising.(thenextweb.com)
thenextweb.com
Microsoft's big Windows 8 secret? It's actually about advertising.
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/11/24/microsofts-big-windows-8-secret-its-actually-about-advertising/
10 comments
That doesn't match my experience at all. Just to check my sanity, I flipped open Minesweeper and played a game on easy. Between the loading time and my 23 second win, I spent about the 30 seconds you mentioned from start to finish entirely. I didn't notice any ads at all, and the only Xbox Live interaction I saw was the non-modal growl-like notice that I was signed into Xbox Live as Encosia.
Also, there's nothing about Windows 8 that prevents you from running an older Minesweeper.exe from a USB stick like you mentioned.
Speaking of ads, here's a panorama of the entire app: http://encosia.com/i/minesweeper-wide/. The ad only takes up about 4.5% of the landscape, in the least conspicuous possible spot. That ad is like putting a small banner ad in the footer of a website. If you're jumping into the app to play a game of Minesweeper, you'd never even see the ad unless you're using a 4,850 pixel wide display.
Also, there's nothing about Windows 8 that prevents you from running an older Minesweeper.exe from a USB stick like you mentioned.
Speaking of ads, here's a panorama of the entire app: http://encosia.com/i/minesweeper-wide/. The ad only takes up about 4.5% of the landscape, in the least conspicuous possible spot. That ad is like putting a small banner ad in the footer of a website. If you're jumping into the app to play a game of Minesweeper, you'd never even see the ad unless you're using a 4,850 pixel wide display.
I find the ad more offensive than obtrusive. This is an operating system I paid for, one where Minesweeper has traditionally been bundled - for free, and without advertising. This also changes the dynamic where now Microsoft has a vested interest in learning everything they can about me to deliver more relevant ads to improve click-through rates. The whole idea of my OS tracking me sends shivers up my spine.
Also, there's nothing about Windows 8 that prevents you from running an older Minesweeper.exe from a USB stick like you mentioned.
It's an incredible stretch to extrapolate from WinRT and suggest that x86 Windows will disable running arbitrary executables anytime in the foreseeable future. Surely no one actually believes that Microsoft is planning to turn away the huge mass of customers currently doing that with Enterprise apps, random Shareware, etc in Windows 7/8 any time soon.
We aren't going to agree about the ad. I literally never saw it in Minesweeper until I went looking for it today, and it's clearly a generic CPM based display ad instead of something invasive based on your activity. Focusing on these nearly-hidden ads in ancillary apps seems like the pinnacle of bikeshedding to me.
edit: Not to say that your opinion is wrong or mine is better. I just can't get on board with all of the fuss I've been seeing lately about these ads. Having been using Windows 8 as my primary desktop OS for about a year, I never see the ads. I have to hunt for them to even verify that they're still there when another blog post pops up about them.
We aren't going to agree about the ad. I literally never saw it in Minesweeper until I went looking for it today, and it's clearly a generic CPM based display ad instead of something invasive based on your activity. Focusing on these nearly-hidden ads in ancillary apps seems like the pinnacle of bikeshedding to me.
edit: Not to say that your opinion is wrong or mine is better. I just can't get on board with all of the fuss I've been seeing lately about these ads. Having been using Windows 8 as my primary desktop OS for about a year, I never see the ads. I have to hunt for them to even verify that they're still there when another blog post pops up about them.
>Speaking of ads, here's a panorama of the entire app: http://encosia.com/i/minesweeper-wide/ . //
I don't get it, which app. It says minesweeper, where are the mines? Is this like the minesweeper starter app, did they feel interstitials were so loved on the web that they wanted to give people more of them?
Also, don't they have any designers at MS or is mis-alignment the new grid? Or perhaps there's some cunning reason [other than making it stand out more in the most annoying fashion] that the advert should not adhere to the grid of the rest of the content.
I don't get it, which app. It says minesweeper, where are the mines? Is this like the minesweeper starter app, did they feel interstitials were so loved on the web that they wanted to give people more of them?
Also, don't they have any designers at MS or is mis-alignment the new grid? Or perhaps there's some cunning reason [other than making it stand out more in the most annoying fashion] that the advert should not adhere to the grid of the rest of the content.
I did a before and after for Minesweeper.
http://i.imgur.com/bv1NY.jpg
If that's not crack smoking, what is?
http://i.imgur.com/bv1NY.jpg
If that's not crack smoking, what is?
The heck?! 4000pixels, and the game itself isn't even visible!
Minesweeper? Really?
Hopefully, the people who laughed at Gabe Newell and Notch for being "paranoid" are starting to get it now.
Hopefully, the people who laughed at Gabe Newell and Notch for being "paranoid" are starting to get it now.
Minesweeper only has ads if you play the new "Minesweeper Adventure" mode or the "Daily Challenges" mode. If you play the classic mode there are no ads.
Encosia's link shows [what appears to be] an interstitial with an ad, can you bypass that and go straight to the game?
That's a menu with choices of which game mode you want to play (keep in mind it's nearly 5,000px wide and you only see part of the left edge at first), not a pointless interstitial ad type experience. Similar to opening most modern games I think?
If you click/tap one of the tiles for the classic game modes, like "easy", you see a brief loading screen with nothing but a Minesweeper flag icon, and then go straight to the game and there are no ads on that next screen.
If you click/tap one of the tiles for the classic game modes, like "easy", you see a brief loading screen with nothing but a Minesweeper flag icon, and then go straight to the game and there are no ads on that next screen.
It still downloads the ads. I just checked with wireshark.
It's a joke. I'm not letting it near my network.
It's a joke. I'm not letting it near my network.
Out of curiosity, do you avoid all ad-supported freeware? This seems no less innocuous than other popular free apps with ads like Words with Friends, Skype, Evernote, Trillian, etc.
That's a fair point about the pre-loading when you likely will never even see it. That doesn't really bother me, but I can see your point there. Would it bother you significantly less if it only loaded the ad on-demand in the rare instance that you actually scrolled that far right?
That's a fair point about the pre-loading when you likely will never even see it. That doesn't really bother me, but I can see your point there. Would it bother you significantly less if it only loaded the ad on-demand in the rare instance that you actually scrolled that far right?
I don't know if I'd use "Words with Friends" as an example of a non-scammy ad-based app. Because since Zynga bought them they turned evil as hell. I moved to Wordfeud, bought myself an ad-free experience, and have been happy ever since.
Yes I do. All of them.
I'd rather pay for something which is not ad supported.
I'd rather pay for something which is not ad supported.
So, are you saying it would make you happy if an ad-less Minesweeper were available in the Store for a couple dollars?
I prefer buying paid apps when they're available too. I don't play a ton of games, but I own the paid version of the ones I play that offer both choices (Words with Friends, Letterpress, Drop7).
I think we're seeing that pricing model fade away though, particularly in the gaming segment. Developers have discovered that only a tiny minority of paid games will be popular enough to hit the Angry Birds jackpot, driving them toward ads or IAP approaches instead. Even when they do hit that jackpot, some popular paid apps are struggling to subsist in the long term with no mechanism for paid upgrades (e.g. Sparrow).
I prefer buying paid apps when they're available too. I don't play a ton of games, but I own the paid version of the ones I play that offer both choices (Words with Friends, Letterpress, Drop7).
I think we're seeing that pricing model fade away though, particularly in the gaming segment. Developers have discovered that only a tiny minority of paid games will be popular enough to hit the Angry Birds jackpot, driving them toward ads or IAP approaches instead. Even when they do hit that jackpot, some popular paid apps are struggling to subsist in the long term with no mechanism for paid upgrades (e.g. Sparrow).
Yes 100% I would be happy if they then took a couple of dollars off the price of Windows to compensate.
My issue is that this is a built in feature/program which has been around for at least 20 years which now has advertising with no opt out pumped into it and the base price of the OS is still more expensive than ever.
So for the Window 8 upgrade, I gain advertising pumped into my existing applications and get charged for the privilege. Fuck 'em.
My issue is that this is a built in feature/program which has been around for at least 20 years which now has advertising with no opt out pumped into it and the base price of the OS is still more expensive than ever.
So for the Window 8 upgrade, I gain advertising pumped into my existing applications and get charged for the privilege. Fuck 'em.
That's not true. The Windows 8 Pro "System Builder" license is the same price as 7 Pro, not "more expensive than ever." The upgrade is only $40 for the next two months, going up to $70 in February, which is the cheapest its ever been. So, they took more than a couple dollars off the price. Happy?
I'm still having the hardest time understanding why you seem to be so angry about this, of all things to focus on about Windows 8.
I'm still having the hardest time understanding why you seem to be so angry about this, of all things to focus on about Windows 8.
Well that's a new level of bloatware.
I really think this issue is overblown. Someone could literally use the Weather app for years without realizing there's an ad in it, for instance, because you have to scroll way over to the right to see it (past the daily forecast, the weekly forecast, the hourly forecast, national weather maps, and a historical weather chart). Since I typically care about the local weather over a short period, I never see the ads in the app.
About all that can be said in response is that if true, your experience will be treated as a bug report, and promptly assigned to someone to fix.
Take a look at the images in this article by Ed Bott: http://www.zdnet.com/how-outraged-should-you-be-about-ads-in... (also linked from this story). You think maybe it was a mere oversight that the ads all appear where they are completely unobtrusive? Seems more likely to me that Microsoft is trying to get some ad revenue while intentionally presenting the minimum possible annoyance to users.
Yeah, I remember when cable TV worked that way, too.
It's actually about services. By having services like Xbox music, video, and live come bundled with the system they're trying to increase subscriptions and purchases. Ads no doubt will play a role but this article exaggerates it.
Most of the 'ads' in windows are actually just promotion of those services, or content available through those services. It's something that every other commercial OS does with their first party apps - iTunes is full of promos for iTunes content. But an article titled 'Windows 8 is about services' doesn't get as many pageviews as 'Windows 8 is about ads'.
Google "Play: Store does this too just to download an Android app.
http://www.androidpipe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Downlo...
http://www.androidpipe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Downlo...
Isn't an app store literally just a wrapper around advertising though. Yes the ads there seem particularly low on instructive content but the rest of Android OS doesn't have advertising like that does it.
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Don't forget Office 365.
Every day, we’re bombarded with advertising. Billboards. TV. Internet. Flyers. Cereal. Shoes. Advertising comes in every form and flavor, and it’s impossible to get away from.
This isn't true. I seldom see billboards (I live in the city, looking at the traffic is more than enough); I don't have a TV, I don't get flyers, don't eat cereal, and use adblock in my browser. It's very very rare for me to see ads outside of free apps for my android devices, and those generally go away once I buy the non-free versions.
I do not expect an OS I pay for to show me ads, and I'll reject any such OS as maliciously attacking my attention span.
This isn't true. I seldom see billboards (I live in the city, looking at the traffic is more than enough); I don't have a TV, I don't get flyers, don't eat cereal, and use adblock in my browser. It's very very rare for me to see ads outside of free apps for my android devices, and those generally go away once I buy the non-free versions.
I do not expect an OS I pay for to show me ads, and I'll reject any such OS as maliciously attacking my attention span.
>I don't have a TV, I don't get flyers, don't eat cereal, and use adblock in my browser. //
Don't visit shops?
We don't watch broadcast TV and having used adblock for many years I find the messiness of un-filtered internet almost unbearable. However we get flyers posted through our door and I still occasionally buy things online (which come with flyers and adverts either at checkout or in the box) and I go shopping where advertising and marketing interfere at every shelf with the buying process. Then there's vehicle wraps, hoardings, posters and billboards, clothing based advertising, and all the usual paraphernalia of the street. Letters home from school, the inside cover at the back of the book you finished, the start of a DVD with its no-skip "feature". The rich host of a BBC program plugging their book (they're supposed not to allow advertising¹) ...
Where do you live, not in "The West" surely?
- - -
¹ But they let very rich people advertised on there anyway whilst being fastidious about removing any semblance of a logo for small companies or when the advert would be entirely incidental.
Don't visit shops?
We don't watch broadcast TV and having used adblock for many years I find the messiness of un-filtered internet almost unbearable. However we get flyers posted through our door and I still occasionally buy things online (which come with flyers and adverts either at checkout or in the box) and I go shopping where advertising and marketing interfere at every shelf with the buying process. Then there's vehicle wraps, hoardings, posters and billboards, clothing based advertising, and all the usual paraphernalia of the street. Letters home from school, the inside cover at the back of the book you finished, the start of a DVD with its no-skip "feature". The rich host of a BBC program plugging their book (they're supposed not to allow advertising¹) ...
Where do you live, not in "The West" surely?
- - -
¹ But they let very rich people advertised on there anyway whilst being fastidious about removing any semblance of a logo for small companies or when the advert would be entirely incidental.
> Ten years ago Microsoft was in trouble for bundling Internet Explorer, but now bundling applications laden with advertising is okay?
How are those two even correlated?
Adding ads to your product is not breaking anti-trust laws.
How are those two even correlated?
Adding ads to your product is not breaking anti-trust laws.
It might if they're only using their own ad network for those ads, and competing ad networks are not allowed to get inserted in there. They would be leveraging their OS monopoly to push their ad network.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong about them only using their own ad network, and not allowing developers to choose other networks for their apps.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong about them only using their own ad network, and not allowing developers to choose other networks for their apps.
You can chose any ad network http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/jj19359...
Microsoft has its own SDK for Adds in Apps, but I am not sure whether other ad networks are disallowed:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh506371(MSADS.10).a...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh506371(MSADS.10).a...
I'm predicting Metro's primary home screen will switch over to M$ ads within 3 years to match the XBox.
Remember when software with built in ads was called adware and we had to install special programs to get rid of it?
I was going to say exactly this, metro screen is a way of transitioning the same way the Xbox UI has.
I yearn for the early days when the juvenile 'M$' was against HN etiquette and was properly dealt with. Now HN is more like Slashdot and that's reflected into the story selection, comments, moderation and flagging.
I won't downvote him because he made a reasonable point and I can't see what level of score he has. In the past with scores visible one could (if desired) vote towards a goal, so keep his comment positive because he added to the conversation but not too high because of the mode of speech.
Arguably downvoting based on a particular manner of conveying his dislike of overt money grabbing like this would be as juvenile, if not more so, than expressing oneself in the manner of the GP.
Arguably downvoting based on a particular manner of conveying his dislike of overt money grabbing like this would be as juvenile, if not more so, than expressing oneself in the manner of the GP.
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All these changes from the traditional Windows DE to this new thing they have with Windows 8 prompts the inevitable question: What are they going to do for corporate and businesses? Are they going to try to push the same interface for the typical office working environment?
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Yes if you've seen Xbox music app, its a big advert which is annoying.
The Xbox music store serves as both a music player as well as a music store. I don't consider showing content from the store as advertising. Is iTunes also "a big advert"?
> The Xbox music store serves as both a music player as well as a music store.
Yet it's called the "Xbox Music Store" making it very clear where their priorities lie. iTunes is iTunes and can also access the iTunes Store. It's not "iTunes Store, Play Music Also".
> I don't consider showing content from the store as advertising.
Many disagree.
> Is iTunes also "a big advert"?
Nope, because the line between the iTunes Store and iTunes is quite clear. It ends when you click that "iTunes Store" link in the sidebar. Up until then, you'll see no advertisements or artists promoted.
Is the iTunes Store a big advert? Definitely. However it's a store, most are plastered with advertising. That is normal.
Ads in your music player isn't normal. If you're willing to accept it, that's completely different and entirely your prerogative. Many others feel they already absorb plenty of advertising and aren't interested in providing new avenues to reach them, especially ones through products that they paid for.
Yet it's called the "Xbox Music Store" making it very clear where their priorities lie. iTunes is iTunes and can also access the iTunes Store. It's not "iTunes Store, Play Music Also".
> I don't consider showing content from the store as advertising.
Many disagree.
> Is iTunes also "a big advert"?
Nope, because the line between the iTunes Store and iTunes is quite clear. It ends when you click that "iTunes Store" link in the sidebar. Up until then, you'll see no advertisements or artists promoted.
Is the iTunes Store a big advert? Definitely. However it's a store, most are plastered with advertising. That is normal.
Ads in your music player isn't normal. If you're willing to accept it, that's completely different and entirely your prerogative. Many others feel they already absorb plenty of advertising and aren't interested in providing new avenues to reach them, especially ones through products that they paid for.
Spot on.
Plus we already paid for the operating system. Taking ad revenue on top is just fucking greedy.
Plus we already paid for the operating system. Taking ad revenue on top is just fucking greedy.
Considering that streaming is free (w/ ads) showing content from the store I'd argue makes a lot of sense. Spotify does the same thing.
With that said, iTunes has added "In the Store" picks in iTunes... while I'm sure you'd argue that it's distinct, given how seamless it is integrated in the new iTunes UI, I think most people won't view it as much different than the XBox Music Store -- and even worse in some regards since you can stream for free from the XBox Music Store.
With that said, iTunes has added "In the Store" picks in iTunes... while I'm sure you'd argue that it's distinct, given how seamless it is integrated in the new iTunes UI, I think most people won't view it as much different than the XBox Music Store -- and even worse in some regards since you can stream for free from the XBox Music Store.
However it pushes the store part in your face constantly even if you do not desire it, which is a shame as the DLNA stuff works well.
1. Launch Music app
2. Show the Windows Charms bar (swipe from the right, or press Windows + C)
3. Click Settings
4. Click Preferences
5. Change "Startup View: When the app opens, show my music" to ON
2. Show the Windows Charms bar (swipe from the right, or press Windows + C)
3. Click Settings
4. Click Preferences
5. Change "Startup View: When the app opens, show my music" to ON
Yes I'm aware of that. Try running wireshark before you launch it....
How does the traffic logged in Wireshark imply that the app "pushes the store part in your face constantly even if you do not desire it"?
I'm implying it downloads all the advertising content anyway.
iTunes being a forcefeed of ads is one of the reasons I detest it, and similarly for Steam's store. Absolutely detest being bombarded with crap I didn't ask or search for. I actively buy things elsewhere to avoid the ads.
if you go into settings, you can change xbox music to open directly to "My Music"
Xbox music has actually been one of the highlights of my overall negative Windows 8 experience. The free streaming service has a fairly extensive library.
Xbox music has actually been one of the highlights of my overall negative Windows 8 experience. The free streaming service has a fairly extensive library.
They're doing it with Skype, too.
Sci fi authors have, for decades now, envisioned a future with ubiquitous, pervasive advertising. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it, but we shouldn't really be surprised....
"Transmitting" advertisement/commercials into our dream ala Futurama cannot be far off (I hope I'm wrong). Perhaps this would be something a hotel could offer to reduce the cost of the room? Trying to think of a positive application of this idea.
Brave New World: learn a foreign language while you sleep, as well as subliminal indoctrination.
This reminded me of the future of the television in the Idiocracy.
https://montevallotimetravel.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/idi...
https://montevallotimetravel.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/idi...
Looks like YouTube.
Ads in desktop software have seemed on their way for a long time, but the only high-profile bundled-with-the-OS example I can think of before this is Apple's Sherlock that came with Mac OS 8.5 and 9.
That was a bit of a special case, for similar reasons to the ones in Metro apps. Search engines had ads anyway, so ads in a program that gave you search results in a desktop app wasn't a huge leap. (There was still significant backlash, though.) And ads in mobile apps are fairly commonplace, MS has just gone a step further integrating them into their first-party ones. Which is a curious decision—how much revenue are we really talking about?
I also feel like there's an interesting parallel between Sherlock—a specialized program for getting results from the internet—and "apps" in the mobile sense. They're both ways to get around at-the-time-limited web user experiences. Desktop apps like Sherlock, though, did not last particularly long as the web itself got more usable.
That was a bit of a special case, for similar reasons to the ones in Metro apps. Search engines had ads anyway, so ads in a program that gave you search results in a desktop app wasn't a huge leap. (There was still significant backlash, though.) And ads in mobile apps are fairly commonplace, MS has just gone a step further integrating them into their first-party ones. Which is a curious decision—how much revenue are we really talking about?
I also feel like there's an interesting parallel between Sherlock—a specialized program for getting results from the internet—and "apps" in the mobile sense. They're both ways to get around at-the-time-limited web user experiences. Desktop apps like Sherlock, though, did not last particularly long as the web itself got more usable.
I used to pop open Minesweeper and play a game in 30 seconds. Now it takes 30 seconds to get through loading screens and all this "Xbox live integration" crap. I hate it. Who really wants "achievements"? I just want a fast loading game that I can throw on a USB stick.
For all the improvements they've made in the Desktop space, the direction they're heading with Metro is so awful for power users.