Ask HN: Using Technical Recruiters to Hire Engineers
8 comments
Former Tech Recruiter with an agency, currently inhouse Tech Recruitment Manager for a large dev company.
If you know of someone with proven experience in the area you are hiring for and you know of organisations that have used them successfully then go for it. Otherwise, don't waste your money.
Recruiting is an incredibly difficult challenge that requires patience and persistence. If you are struggling to find people I can guarantee it's for one of the following reasons:
1. You aren't paying enough
2. The job description isn't appropriate to attract the right folk
3. You are looking in all the wrong places (highly doubt this is the reason)
4. There are no suitable candidates on the market.
I would be amazed if points 3 or 4 were the crux of the issue. If you want you can send me the job description along with the details of the package and I'll happily give you my opinion.
In the mean time, some reading material:
1. Why you should avoid recruiters at all costs - http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/6/15/all-that-is-wrong-wit...
2. Recruiting advice for start-ups - http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/11/5/why-should-i-join-you...
If you know of someone with proven experience in the area you are hiring for and you know of organisations that have used them successfully then go for it. Otherwise, don't waste your money.
Recruiting is an incredibly difficult challenge that requires patience and persistence. If you are struggling to find people I can guarantee it's for one of the following reasons:
1. You aren't paying enough
2. The job description isn't appropriate to attract the right folk
3. You are looking in all the wrong places (highly doubt this is the reason)
4. There are no suitable candidates on the market.
I would be amazed if points 3 or 4 were the crux of the issue. If you want you can send me the job description along with the details of the package and I'll happily give you my opinion.
In the mean time, some reading material:
1. Why you should avoid recruiters at all costs - http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/6/15/all-that-is-wrong-wit...
2. Recruiting advice for start-ups - http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/11/5/why-should-i-join-you...
If I was in your shoes, I'd become your own technical recruiter, pick a far-flung college town or city with a good CS program, and try to relo a crackerjack Python dev out of a batch of a dozen you contact. Fly yourself out to Podunk City to seal the deal.
Only so many devs come out of bay area schools, and only so many devs relocate out to SF before they have guaranteed employment. There's a lot of pent-up supply of $100k-grade talent pulling in $40k in flyover country.
You're going to find and keep those people far easier (and cheaper!) than barking up the same trees (recruiters and H1B) that your contemporaries are.
Only so many devs come out of bay area schools, and only so many devs relocate out to SF before they have guaranteed employment. There's a lot of pent-up supply of $100k-grade talent pulling in $40k in flyover country.
You're going to find and keep those people far easier (and cheaper!) than barking up the same trees (recruiters and H1B) that your contemporaries are.
Just wanted to point out that in fly over country a first time developer can get close to $70k from recent experience, so I wouldn't expect the $40k number to stick.
Although, I will say that it is easier to under price your self in fly over country because your cost of living is much lower.
Although, I will say that it is easier to under price your self in fly over country because your cost of living is much lower.
Exactly. "Can get" and "are getting" are two completely separate things.
Even still, $100k at your SOMA startup seems like it would sound a lot better to someone earning $70k in the middle of nowhere than someone earning $100k at an existing job down the street.
Even still, $100k at your SOMA startup seems like it would sound a lot better to someone earning $70k in the middle of nowhere than someone earning $100k at an existing job down the street.
I dont want to give away too much but moderately sized metro areas are paying 70k for first time developers.
Mchannon, really great advice. Thanks. We've looked at this as an option, especially for longer-term hires. Any recs on strong undersung CS programs?
Strange as it may sound, I wouldn't select solely on the basis of strong programs. You're not trying to hire the program. You're trying to hire a person, one at a time. I've met Stanford graduates I wouldn't hire, even though their programs are world-class.
The millennials you're trying to hire have a large component of reactionary talent. Among this subgroup, they don't go out to seek the best offers, and they often settle for lesser offers. You kinda want this subgroup because they're less likely to leave your employ for the next better offer elsewhere.
I've met some sharp people from schools like Dickinson State. I'd pick a community where the school's graduates have nowhere close by to go (and are thus hireable, prone to considering your relo offers, and have something to prove that Stanford grads don't). You'd be amazed how many CS graduates are working at Best Buy or Radio Shack because it never occurred to a development firm to interview them.
Maybe I should be a recruiter.
The millennials you're trying to hire have a large component of reactionary talent. Among this subgroup, they don't go out to seek the best offers, and they often settle for lesser offers. You kinda want this subgroup because they're less likely to leave your employ for the next better offer elsewhere.
I've met some sharp people from schools like Dickinson State. I'd pick a community where the school's graduates have nowhere close by to go (and are thus hireable, prone to considering your relo offers, and have something to prove that Stanford grads don't). You'd be amazed how many CS graduates are working at Best Buy or Radio Shack because it never occurred to a development firm to interview them.
Maybe I should be a recruiter.
Not that there aren't good third-party recruiters out there, but the majority I've encountered while personally looking for work were disappointing. They seem to scrape resumes from the Internet, perform rudimentary keyword-matching, and cold-call for candidate volume rather than candidate quality. Part of the issue is that it's in their best interests not to find a best fit for either party, but rather to maximize their own overall throughput. If you decide to use a third-party recruiter, then please, for your own sake and those of your potential hires, vet them thoroughly.
Yeah, that's the feeling I've gotten. There seem to be a group of recruiters, and a group of serial contractors, that cycle around SV. In this market, it's almost just a matter of manpower and positive outreach. I guess that's what dev advocates are...
Sometimes hire fast, fire fast really works. If you find someone even matching 50-70% of caliber you are looking for, it might be worth taking a risk. If you are concern is his/her code quality, then ask for code references and if your concern is culture fit related, then you'd know in 2-4 weeks. Keep the conversation transparent though. As an early-stage company, i'd avoid going through a recruiter.
Read this before deciding
http://www.ewherry.com/2012/06/the-recruiter-honeypot/
Calbear, Thanks. This article was awesome! Elaine had great ideas about hiring at the start, and her (or her fictitious dev's) experiences are exactly in line with my own. Just hoped that maybe there was something else besides LinkedIn out there...
A good recruiter might be even harder to find than a good developer.
You probably need a recruiter if you really need to scale or are in a desperate time crunch.
Recruiters are pretty worthless.
The bulk of my experience with recruiters has been quite negative.
We've been rolling around the meetup circuit, posting online, and pushing the roles out through our networks, but still haven't met the caliber of innovators we're looking for. Since we have some cash for this, we're now thinking about working with a recruiter(s).
Are technical recruiters worth it? Should we try to bring someone on in-house, or outsource? Is contingency okay? Any thoughts on this would be hugely appreciated.