Ask HN: Fat founder, does it hurt getting funding?
Do venture capitalists or angels fund fat people? When I look about I see most founders are a bit fitter and thinner than the average population. Perhaps there is some bias in terms of who goes to conferences or gets into magazines.
HN, Is being Fat a problem in terms of getting investors?
33 comments
Thinking in the way you'd have to think to ask this question is a huge problem in terms of getting investors. Hustlers don't step on a scale in the morning, look at the number, and then tell themselves "huh, I'd better cut out carbs and spend 6 months at the gym before closing my next sale". They just get the fuck out there and close the sale.
If you want to use entrepreneurship as a forcing function to make progress with weight loss, good on you; your health is almost certainly more important than your short-term business success.
But don't kid yourself about how the market works. If you can generate value and communicate it to clients, customers, and investors, the market will find a number to attach to that value. If you can't, even if you can run a 3.5 hour marathon, you aren't going to get a number to work with. The world is full of fit "business cofounders" who can't sell a fucking thing.
This question is just a way of talking yourself out of taking an honest shot.
If you want to use entrepreneurship as a forcing function to make progress with weight loss, good on you; your health is almost certainly more important than your short-term business success.
But don't kid yourself about how the market works. If you can generate value and communicate it to clients, customers, and investors, the market will find a number to attach to that value. If you can't, even if you can run a 3.5 hour marathon, you aren't going to get a number to work with. The world is full of fit "business cofounders" who can't sell a fucking thing.
This question is just a way of talking yourself out of taking an honest shot.
Well, we don't have any A/B tests, and we don't have any statistics, so all we have are anecdotes.
That said, my last job was at an angel-funded company, though these were atypical angels - all billionaires, some well-known names. The CEO was not only fat (330 pounds), but old (46), brash, loud, opinionated, and the kind of guy who would say "You know what we need on the landing page? Smokin' hot broads!" In the movie version, he will be played by a taller Danny DeVito.
But he was a good guy and a great salesman, and had no trouble raising multiple multi-million dollar rounds, even while pivoting completely - several times. His investors trusted him to treat their money with respect, and knowing his history, I would too.
That said, my last job was at an angel-funded company, though these were atypical angels - all billionaires, some well-known names. The CEO was not only fat (330 pounds), but old (46), brash, loud, opinionated, and the kind of guy who would say "You know what we need on the landing page? Smokin' hot broads!" In the movie version, he will be played by a taller Danny DeVito.
But he was a good guy and a great salesman, and had no trouble raising multiple multi-million dollar rounds, even while pivoting completely - several times. His investors trusted him to treat their money with respect, and knowing his history, I would too.
Actually, you could run facial recognition on a scrape of images tied to professional profiles, and get some pretty strong inferences on BMI, race and gender. And then re-formulate the question: Are you more likely to see a height/weight disproportionate person vs another minority? like meso-indian, black or female?
Depends on the investors. People tend to "like" people who are similar to them. Successful people tend to be type-A personalities, which in turn indicates that they are more likely to make the effort to be fit. Successful people are more likely to have money to invest and so the cycle goes on.
I know several fat, happy, friendly, successful people. I think their success comes from their good attitude, warm personality and the value they bring to the negotiating table.
Obesity is also a health issue and investors will see that as a risk to their investment.
I know several fat, happy, friendly, successful people. I think their success comes from their good attitude, warm personality and the value they bring to the negotiating table.
Obesity is also a health issue and investors will see that as a risk to their investment.
Should it matter? No.
Does it matter? Possibly. If you have an excellent idea, then being larger than average shouldn't stop you.
Hovever, it may count slightly against you. To take an extremely negative view, being fat (not just carrying a few extra pounds) could be seen to be evidence of lack of self-discipline. No-one makes you fat, it is something that people do to themselves, and either by being too "weak" to resist unhealthy food, or by not being able to stick to an exercise regime.
Also, I think in a lot of western societies now, being fat is something that seems to be more common with poorer people. Which might influence people slightly, although it shouldn't.
Does it matter? Possibly. If you have an excellent idea, then being larger than average shouldn't stop you.
Hovever, it may count slightly against you. To take an extremely negative view, being fat (not just carrying a few extra pounds) could be seen to be evidence of lack of self-discipline. No-one makes you fat, it is something that people do to themselves, and either by being too "weak" to resist unhealthy food, or by not being able to stick to an exercise regime.
Also, I think in a lot of western societies now, being fat is something that seems to be more common with poorer people. Which might influence people slightly, although it shouldn't.
Fat is probably a good predictor for lack of ambition. So I would say it lowers chances to get funded.
Can you cite a source? Hell, I'll lower the bar, can you even explain the logic in that?
First time I've ever heard someone try to make the link between ambition and excess weight.
I know tons of overweight highly successful individuals, in fact some of the most successful people I know are overweight, they simply work all hours of the day and eat crap between work.
It is an unhealthy lifestyle, absolutely, but an indicator for a lack of ambition? ...
First time I've ever heard someone try to make the link between ambition and excess weight.
I know tons of overweight highly successful individuals, in fact some of the most successful people I know are overweight, they simply work all hours of the day and eat crap between work.
It is an unhealthy lifestyle, absolutely, but an indicator for a lack of ambition? ...
This is a fucked up world view. The underlying assumption seems to be that every human has the exact same metabolism, hence if you're lean and fit you have willpower, self-discipline, and self-control, and if you're fat you don't because you've 'let yourself go'.
But by that measure everyone who isn't an Olympic athlete lacks a certain level of willpower, self-discipline, and self-control as well, since that's the only differential between Olympians and non-olympians.
Bodies are different, metabolisms are different, and each person has a natural equilibrium state. For some people that equilibrium state is lean and skinny, and it takes relatively little willpower or 'ambition' to maintain it. In fact, some can't even get overweight if they try.
For others, their equilibrium state is to be overweight, and it takes a relatively herculean, constant, unending effort to reach and maintain the former's same level of leanness.
Food also affects different people in different ways. It's no secret Americans have gotten fatter in recent decades, and one of the main culprits is our increasingly poor diet. But even there, some people are more resistant to gaining weight from poor quality food and/or overeating while others have to stick to a strict diet, count every calorie, and work their ass off in the gym just to look like the former does without even trying.
We seem to be getting better at hacking our metabolism lately, judging by what I've read of Paleo/Primal, stuff on Lifehacker, etc. I wonder if anyone has ever applied to YC by answering the application question "what was your best hack?" by saying they were naturally obese and hacked their body/metabolism to overcome it. It's not easy.
But by that measure everyone who isn't an Olympic athlete lacks a certain level of willpower, self-discipline, and self-control as well, since that's the only differential between Olympians and non-olympians.
Bodies are different, metabolisms are different, and each person has a natural equilibrium state. For some people that equilibrium state is lean and skinny, and it takes relatively little willpower or 'ambition' to maintain it. In fact, some can't even get overweight if they try.
For others, their equilibrium state is to be overweight, and it takes a relatively herculean, constant, unending effort to reach and maintain the former's same level of leanness.
Food also affects different people in different ways. It's no secret Americans have gotten fatter in recent decades, and one of the main culprits is our increasingly poor diet. But even there, some people are more resistant to gaining weight from poor quality food and/or overeating while others have to stick to a strict diet, count every calorie, and work their ass off in the gym just to look like the former does without even trying.
We seem to be getting better at hacking our metabolism lately, judging by what I've read of Paleo/Primal, stuff on Lifehacker, etc. I wonder if anyone has ever applied to YC by answering the application question "what was your best hack?" by saying they were naturally obese and hacked their body/metabolism to overcome it. It's not easy.
You are right! But consider that many thin people make a huge effort to be that way and with that comes resentment that they are foregoing all the nice things (chocolate, beer, snacks, etc) I hate group dining where one person is a diet & exercise Nazi - really spoils the atmosphere. Pass the chocolate mousse and cognac!
Based on what?
Just ask Kim Dotcom.
A predictor doesnt have to be always right to be a predictor.
Gabe Newell, Peter Jackson, Jack Black, Opera, Steve Ballmer, et al
Yes. It hurts you when recruiting employees and winning customers too. It's not insurmountable, obviously, but it's a significant handicap. Hit the gym and pay attention to how you look overall: zits, bad hair, body odor, bad clothes, bad table manners also hurt you.
It's an obstacle because it saps your confidence.
I have in my life never been what you'd call a pentathlete and am in my old age tending towards a more sitcom-dad appearance (modulo the torn-up clothes, 4 day stubble, and unkempt hair). I own recruiting for an 7+ y/o company (that I cofounded) that is significantly larger than the median YC company; I'm also one of 4 key sales team members. I've had those roles since the company started; I also recruited our President. There's no correlation I can observe between athleticism and sales/recruiting success.
I've also spent years of my life doing enterprise sales (as a product manager riding along with account managers to F-500 accounts). I may in this capacity have accumulated more direct sales experience than you have. Let me set you straight on something right away: a demonstrable ability for eating steak while receiving a lap dance is far more predictive of sales ability than one's ability to do a pull-up. The salespeople who could finish a marathon did not as a rule outperform the salespeople who would have felt at home eating onion cheeseburgers at 9AM on the mortgage desk at Salomon in 1987.
There is a clear and obvious correlation between selling ability and confidence. Every successful salesperson (or recruiting or, probably, fundraiser) I've known could walk into a room, look you in the eye, and confidently ask for the sale. Confident people can take command of a room; they sieze the channel and shut off the normal conversational flow control signals that sales targets rely on to blow people off. They do it without trying and often without the target even noticing it. It's about confidence and, to an extent, about shamelessness and an ability to deal with rejection.
Culturally --- perhaps for good reasons given the health issues involved --- people with appearance handicaps are conditioned to be deferential instead of confident, and to fear rejection, probably because they face it in life situations where other people never even have to think about rejection. But apart from body odor and wildly inappropriate dress, physical appearance isn't so much a direct obstacle as it is a handicap to developing confidence.
So I recommend that the reader ignore the comment I'm replying to. "Hitting the gym" is, empirically, not going to get you (a) thinner any time soon (though it will make you healthier and, if you're me, drastically reduce your blood pressure) or (b) funded. Take a shower and stop giving a shit what people think about your appearance.
I have in my life never been what you'd call a pentathlete and am in my old age tending towards a more sitcom-dad appearance (modulo the torn-up clothes, 4 day stubble, and unkempt hair). I own recruiting for an 7+ y/o company (that I cofounded) that is significantly larger than the median YC company; I'm also one of 4 key sales team members. I've had those roles since the company started; I also recruited our President. There's no correlation I can observe between athleticism and sales/recruiting success.
I've also spent years of my life doing enterprise sales (as a product manager riding along with account managers to F-500 accounts). I may in this capacity have accumulated more direct sales experience than you have. Let me set you straight on something right away: a demonstrable ability for eating steak while receiving a lap dance is far more predictive of sales ability than one's ability to do a pull-up. The salespeople who could finish a marathon did not as a rule outperform the salespeople who would have felt at home eating onion cheeseburgers at 9AM on the mortgage desk at Salomon in 1987.
There is a clear and obvious correlation between selling ability and confidence. Every successful salesperson (or recruiting or, probably, fundraiser) I've known could walk into a room, look you in the eye, and confidently ask for the sale. Confident people can take command of a room; they sieze the channel and shut off the normal conversational flow control signals that sales targets rely on to blow people off. They do it without trying and often without the target even noticing it. It's about confidence and, to an extent, about shamelessness and an ability to deal with rejection.
Culturally --- perhaps for good reasons given the health issues involved --- people with appearance handicaps are conditioned to be deferential instead of confident, and to fear rejection, probably because they face it in life situations where other people never even have to think about rejection. But apart from body odor and wildly inappropriate dress, physical appearance isn't so much a direct obstacle as it is a handicap to developing confidence.
So I recommend that the reader ignore the comment I'm replying to. "Hitting the gym" is, empirically, not going to get you (a) thinner any time soon (though it will make you healthier and, if you're me, drastically reduce your blood pressure) or (b) funded. Take a shower and stop giving a shit what people think about your appearance.
> ... zits, bad hair, body odor, bad clothes, bad table manners also hurt you.
I wasn't born in America (I'm Indian -- I'm used to eating rice with my bare hands) -- never ate American food, thus I have no table manners.
Where/how do I learn them? I've tried to read some internet articles and such but that didn't help me -- I'm still quite messy with my handling of fork and knife (and not very knowledgeable about what to say when and how ("pass me that that dish over there please?")
I wasn't born in America (I'm Indian -- I'm used to eating rice with my bare hands) -- never ate American food, thus I have no table manners.
Where/how do I learn them? I've tried to read some internet articles and such but that didn't help me -- I'm still quite messy with my handling of fork and knife (and not very knowledgeable about what to say when and how ("pass me that that dish over there please?")
I would say the best way is through careful social observation. Put yourself in many different types of situations and observe the unspoken "rules" around mannerisms. Try and eat at different restaurants, attend a ball game, go to the opera, join a meetup -- each one of these different scenarios will help you learn and grow.
This is a pretty narrow view. Half of the things you listed are largely genetic and insurmountable for many. Maybe it becomes important for customers (depending largely on the business and type of customer). But for employees? You think stunning good looks and table manners is what gets skilled engineers to work for you?
You're caricaturing what I said, which is not good HN manners.
The most effective leaders project an image of getting what they want, regardless of obstacles. People prefer to work for, do business with, and invest in people who can maintain that image.
If you think leadership should be a human right granted equally to all people regardless of genetics, society has a long way to go. Fortunately, it's possible to live a fulfilling life without being a leader.
The most effective leaders project an image of getting what they want, regardless of obstacles. People prefer to work for, do business with, and invest in people who can maintain that image.
If you think leadership should be a human right granted equally to all people regardless of genetics, society has a long way to go. Fortunately, it's possible to live a fulfilling life without being a leader.
This is the best answer. Keep all aspects of your appearance and personal life in order, so that when you conducting business, there is nothing else for your employees, investors, and customers to worry about.
Keep in mind though that in certain cases (not majority), being obese is quite different than bad odor, bad clothes etc. Reason being that in those cases, it is a disorder (I personally know someone with this problem) while bad odor, bad clothes etc. are still something that can be controlled and resolved.
Reid Hoffman is neither slim nor athletic looking. Focus on your product, market, and go to market strategy and you should be fine.
No. It is important to "look the part" but a fat person is well fitting cloths can look better than a thin person in a suit which is two sizes too big.
When people picture this question they're picturing some guy in a small t-shirt with a massive beer-belly. Which we can all agree looks horrible.
Now draw that picture again with a well fitting suit...
When people picture this question they're picturing some guy in a small t-shirt with a massive beer-belly. Which we can all agree looks horrible.
Now draw that picture again with a well fitting suit...
What does it matter? If the answer is "yes" what would you do differently? Why not do those things anyways?
This is actually a highly valid point.
If the answer is "yes" so what? If overweight individuals could be less overweight then don't you think they would be already?
Kind of like asking a heroin addict "will using heroin hurt your career?" Yes? Oh well let me quit right this second then...
Ditto smokers, alcoholics, other eating disorders, depression, mental illness, drug users, sex-addicts, internet-addicts, et al.
I'm no expert on curing this stuff but I do know that shaming them or putting tons of pressure on them (quit or X Y Z will happen) is the opposite of progress.
If the answer is "yes" so what? If overweight individuals could be less overweight then don't you think they would be already?
Kind of like asking a heroin addict "will using heroin hurt your career?" Yes? Oh well let me quit right this second then...
Ditto smokers, alcoholics, other eating disorders, depression, mental illness, drug users, sex-addicts, internet-addicts, et al.
I'm no expert on curing this stuff but I do know that shaming them or putting tons of pressure on them (quit or X Y Z will happen) is the opposite of progress.
I don't know - sometimes external motivation can help. i.e I lost two stone (28lbs) because a) I was approaching my 40th birthday, and didn't want to be fat and 40, and b) I wanted to stay healthy for little girl.
>Why not do those things anyways?
Priorities and time. The OP might be quite comfortable and happy with his current physicality, so he's not interested in investing the time getting thinner "just because". However, he might be highly dedicated towards creating a profitable business. And if being thinner is something that might provide an advantage to that end, then it's worth prioritizing and making the time to do so.
Priorities and time. The OP might be quite comfortable and happy with his current physicality, so he's not interested in investing the time getting thinner "just because". However, he might be highly dedicated towards creating a profitable business. And if being thinner is something that might provide an advantage to that end, then it's worth prioritizing and making the time to do so.
Doesn't every other person say doing a startup is a 24/7 commitment? It's hard to quit the refined-carbohydrate yo-yo in the middle of that.
Maybe it's as simple as that particular co-founder won't come to the meeting for raising capital?
I don't think most rational people care too much what other people look like. It would seem to only be an issue if a founder were so obese that it appeared his/her life was quite out of control.
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a totally rational person when it comes to making nuanced decisions for which there is no objective right or wrong answer. It's simply impossible to set aside one's unconscious biases entirely. To an extent, one can work around unconscious biases by being as data-driven as possible, but for something like deciding whether to fund a startup, the decision is (at least in early rounds) largely based on a subjective read of the founders, rather than any metrics.
Note that I'm not defending any kind of biased treatment of overweight people -- I'm just commenting on the present reality of the matter.
Note that I'm not defending any kind of biased treatment of overweight people -- I'm just commenting on the present reality of the matter.