The iPad 1(marco.org)
marco.org
The iPad 1
http://www.marco.org/2012/09/30/ipad-1
102 comments
The RAM thing is a nice theory until you consider the 4th gen iPod touch has a similar number of pixels as iPad 1
4th generation iPod touch is 960 x 640 = 614,400
1st generation iPad is 1024 × 768 = 786,432
Those extra 172,032 pixels could have been enough to prevent something from performing adequately.
4th generation iPod touch is 960 x 640 = 614,400
1st generation iPad is 1024 × 768 = 786,432
Those extra 172,032 pixels could have been enough to prevent something from performing adequately.
You have to take into account the larger memory footprint of iPad apps as well. No doubt they could have run the base OS without much trouble but there wouldn't be a lot of memory left over for apps. So an iPad 1 with iOS5 and enough free RAM to run apps is better than an iPad 1 with iOS6 that can't do much more than run the OS. Apple learned their lesson from the iPhone4/3G thing.
Just because the dimensions are similar doesn't mean the number of pixels is sufficiently similar – in fact, an iPad 1 has 28% more. This is a significant difference to a programmer.
> But let's face it, that's not going to improve their bottom line, whereas telling everyone to buy a new iPad every 24 months is.
That kind of short-term thinking is what gets companies into trouble. No, it won't help the bottom line now, but when the next purchase rolls around, don't you think premature obsolescence (or the lack thereof) of the device being upgraded will factor into what replacement to get? It's certainly a major reason I won't buy an android device (at least one not made by google, which tend to get long term support like apple)
That kind of short-term thinking is what gets companies into trouble. No, it won't help the bottom line now, but when the next purchase rolls around, don't you think premature obsolescence (or the lack thereof) of the device being upgraded will factor into what replacement to get? It's certainly a major reason I won't buy an android device (at least one not made by google, which tend to get long term support like apple)
Just to clarify, the Nexus devices (NOT built by Google) get aee quickly upgraded (with a few exceptions on some carriers). Motorola (now a part of Google) continues to be the worst at upgrades.
>I'm sure with a bit of engineering effort, the memory footprint of iOS could be drastically reduced.
Drastically ?
The core of iOS is fundamentally the same as OSX and there are shared components. If Apple could figure out how to dramatically reduce memory usage they would have done it by now.
Drastically ?
The core of iOS is fundamentally the same as OSX and there are shared components. If Apple could figure out how to dramatically reduce memory usage they would have done it by now.
Yes, drastically, I'm sure.
OSX heavily uses swap, even when a lot of memory is available (the dynamic pager). On iOS, the dynamic pager is disabled. This is particularly an issue with a language whose default memory allocation behaviour is as bad as Objective-C's - if an app gets backgrounded and frees all of the objects in a 4K page, save one (no matter how small), it will consume 4K until that changes or it gets killed. As it's not a managed language, the heap can't get compacted.
A second thing that's horrendously inefficient about iOS (as far as I can tell - they don't expose this stuff much) is that all of UIKit/Core Animation uses 32-bit/pixel textures. Things like text labels could easily use 8-bit textures with vertex colours for tinting. 8-bit PNGs or GIFs loaded as UIImages are decoded into 32-bit textures, too - okay, the hardware doesn't natively support palettes, so this would take a little bit of extra work to support. Finally, the hardware does support powerful compressed textures (PVRTC) which would suffice for many (most?) images used in apps.
OSX heavily uses swap, even when a lot of memory is available (the dynamic pager). On iOS, the dynamic pager is disabled. This is particularly an issue with a language whose default memory allocation behaviour is as bad as Objective-C's - if an app gets backgrounded and frees all of the objects in a 4K page, save one (no matter how small), it will consume 4K until that changes or it gets killed. As it's not a managed language, the heap can't get compacted.
A second thing that's horrendously inefficient about iOS (as far as I can tell - they don't expose this stuff much) is that all of UIKit/Core Animation uses 32-bit/pixel textures. Things like text labels could easily use 8-bit textures with vertex colours for tinting. 8-bit PNGs or GIFs loaded as UIImages are decoded into 32-bit textures, too - okay, the hardware doesn't natively support palettes, so this would take a little bit of extra work to support. Finally, the hardware does support powerful compressed textures (PVRTC) which would suffice for many (most?) images used in apps.
The disappointment, to me, isn't with the iPad alone. It's with the new move in the industry to non-upgradable devices and internet-dependent software.
I've enjoyed my iPad 1 since the day I bought it, and I haven't seen any need to replace it with a newer model. Neither the Retina Display nor the camera were particularly important to me, and I didn't have much need for more storage or memory.
Would I like to use iOS 6 on my iPad? Certainly. Do I need to? Not right now.
Over the next year or two, though, I'm sure there will be plenty of software that I'd like to use, but won't be able to. It's possible that some apps, like Netflix or Spotify, or some games, will reach a point where older versions won't work anymore, as they roll out features that require some update or another to play nicely with their servers.
What will happen if I have to restore my iPad to factory settings, or just accidentally delete some app? Will I still be able to re-install the version I need in two years, or five, or more?
Every computer reaches a useful end to its life at some point in time. The acceleration of that process due to a closed system that allows no upgrade to RAM or storage, and no ability to install software except through a centrally-controlled repository, frankly sucks.
Windows 8 shows that it's more than just Apple headed for closed systems. If current trends prevail, how far out are we from the closed model of the iPad being the standard for the industry?
I hope there will be some consumer backlash, and a company with a commitment to great technical and experience design takes up the standard of more open hardware and software as a competitive differentiator. I'd vote for them with my dollars.
I've enjoyed my iPad 1 since the day I bought it, and I haven't seen any need to replace it with a newer model. Neither the Retina Display nor the camera were particularly important to me, and I didn't have much need for more storage or memory.
Would I like to use iOS 6 on my iPad? Certainly. Do I need to? Not right now.
Over the next year or two, though, I'm sure there will be plenty of software that I'd like to use, but won't be able to. It's possible that some apps, like Netflix or Spotify, or some games, will reach a point where older versions won't work anymore, as they roll out features that require some update or another to play nicely with their servers.
What will happen if I have to restore my iPad to factory settings, or just accidentally delete some app? Will I still be able to re-install the version I need in two years, or five, or more?
Every computer reaches a useful end to its life at some point in time. The acceleration of that process due to a closed system that allows no upgrade to RAM or storage, and no ability to install software except through a centrally-controlled repository, frankly sucks.
Windows 8 shows that it's more than just Apple headed for closed systems. If current trends prevail, how far out are we from the closed model of the iPad being the standard for the industry?
I hope there will be some consumer backlash, and a company with a commitment to great technical and experience design takes up the standard of more open hardware and software as a competitive differentiator. I'd vote for them with my dollars.
This isn't a theoretical, and it's sadly not limited to the iPad. I've purchased the Apple suite of office programs (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) and I can't install them without updating to the latest version of Mac OS X. That's OK for me, but it's been a huge PITA for the non-profit I work with, which is always struggling to get working computers, let alone modern ones. Because they can't install Lion on their computers, software we'd bought for them simply won't be re-installable if I have to wipe the system clean for some reason.
I was fed up with Android bloatware enough to finally switch to iOS a few weeks ago, but the lock-in on both platforms (non-stock Android + iOS) is beyond aggravating and feels more like a shakedown at some points.
I was fed up with Android bloatware enough to finally switch to iOS a few weeks ago, but the lock-in on both platforms (non-stock Android + iOS) is beyond aggravating and feels more like a shakedown at some points.
What annoys me: the expensive to replace batteries on iOS devices. My wife and I have new Samsung Galaxy III S phones and I was giving her a little lecture on recharging strategies for maximizing battery life (same lecture as for our iPads, BTW). Then I checked out how incredibly cheap Samsung replacement batteries are on Amazon. Husband fail, but recovery :-)
So, I asked her to be careful of her iPad recharging strategy, but recharge the III S at will. BTW, both devices seem to have about 10 hours of active use time between charges. Also with the III S's higher resolution screen I have started using it for watching Netflix, TED talks, etc., etc., so the battery life of my iPad may not be an issue.
So, I asked her to be careful of her iPad recharging strategy, but recharge the III S at will. BTW, both devices seem to have about 10 hours of active use time between charges. Also with the III S's higher resolution screen I have started using it for watching Netflix, TED talks, etc., etc., so the battery life of my iPad may not be an issue.
What recharging strategies are you suggesting? I'm not aware of any need of strategies for modern lithium ion batteries aside from the storage case, so I'm genuinely curious.
don't charge to full, charge to say 80%
I charge to full if I will be using the device. If I am charging a laptop that I will not be using for a long while, I only charge it half way.
I try to minimize the number of charges so I usually use a device until the battery is mostly discharged before charging.
If this is wrong, please let me know!
I try to minimize the number of charges so I usually use a device until the battery is mostly discharged before charging.
If this is wrong, please let me know!
[citation needed]
Uh, what?
It should be pretty well known by now that upgradable components in hand-held devices is a losing strategy. The mass populace of Consumers just don't care, they wan't something that Just Works, that's simple, pretty and light with a long battery life. Which appears to align with Apple's focus perfectly.
I think it's safe to assume that iOS devices aren't going to come with upgradeable internal components. They've got models at different price points and their 3rd party hardware ecosystems - which they plan satisfying the consumers use-cases until the next version rolls around again.
I think it's safe to assume that iOS devices aren't going to come with upgradeable internal components. They've got models at different price points and their 3rd party hardware ecosystems - which they plan satisfying the consumers use-cases until the next version rolls around again.
What about the 20 seconds it takes to replace a battery on my Samsung Galaxy III S?
That isn't being upgradable, but at least fixable. Same with putting in a chip before going to Europe, etc.
That isn't being upgradable, but at least fixable. Same with putting in a chip before going to Europe, etc.
It may take YOU 20 seconds. It takes my mother upwards of five minutes to replace the batteries in a standard D-cell flashlight, and then another five minutes to do it all again because she didn't put all the batteries in in the same direction.
People really appreciate things they don't have to fuss with.
People really appreciate things they don't have to fuss with.
What if it was so much cheaper and not subsidized, like how desktops are? It could have been a different type of market, and maybe better for electronics altogether. That's how desktops were, anyhow. And the internet. Phones are getting to be like cages, though.
Talking to casual users, "my iphone/ipad is slow" was a reason they were motivated to purchase the newest model of iphone. When it comes to repeat purchases, I wouldn't find it difficult to imagine that responsible for double digit percentages of new iOS device sales.
Unfortunately for Apple, Steve Jobs is dead and the magic is gone. Now I hear those same users say they are "tired of the iPhone" and want something new. If Apple's competitors can deliver good Android experiences, they are going to get to keep those new users for a while.
Unfortunately for Apple, Steve Jobs is dead and the magic is gone. Now I hear those same users say they are "tired of the iPhone" and want something new. If Apple's competitors can deliver good Android experiences, they are going to get to keep those new users for a while.
Yup. People are tired of the iPhone because a guy they didn't know died.
>Unfortunately for Apple, Steve Jobs is dead and the magic is gone.
Steve Jobs was alive when the iPhone 5 was conceptualised and designed.
Also nobody cares about your anecdotes. I hate to be rude but seriously they are meaningless.
Steve Jobs was alive when the iPhone 5 was conceptualised and designed.
Also nobody cares about your anecdotes. I hate to be rude but seriously they are meaningless.
Not sure why you got downvoted, because you're exactly right: anecdotes are meaningless. In addition, Steve Jobs may be gone, but he reportedly left Apple with four years worth of product ideas, and like you say, iPhone 5 was designed when he was at the helm. The only thing he would probably have done differently is that he wouldn't have signed off on Apple Maps in its current state. But that's neither here nor there.
"Over the next year or two, though, I'm sure there will be plenty of software that I'd like to use, but won't be able to."
FWIW, that's what I thought about my iPad1 when iPad2 came out, and again when New iPad came out. I'm perfectly happy to upgrade when needed (I bought mine early on when they launched here in Australia, so it's over 2 years old now, which is a fairly acceptable lifespan for tech gadgets for me), but so far I've still not bumped into any app I want to run but can't, at least not anything compelling enough to push me to spend money to upgrade. I suspect if I were more of a gamer, I'd be running into performance problems, but for all my use cases, iPad1 seems to be perfectly happy to run that apps I want - and short of some category-changing new app idea, I'm pretty sure all the apps I use will continue to work for quite some time yet, even if they get updated with new versions which require iOS6 which I'll miss out on.
I'm strongly suspecting now that the battery will need replacing before the device becomes unusable due to newer OS and/or software requirements.
FWIW, that's what I thought about my iPad1 when iPad2 came out, and again when New iPad came out. I'm perfectly happy to upgrade when needed (I bought mine early on when they launched here in Australia, so it's over 2 years old now, which is a fairly acceptable lifespan for tech gadgets for me), but so far I've still not bumped into any app I want to run but can't, at least not anything compelling enough to push me to spend money to upgrade. I suspect if I were more of a gamer, I'd be running into performance problems, but for all my use cases, iPad1 seems to be perfectly happy to run that apps I want - and short of some category-changing new app idea, I'm pretty sure all the apps I use will continue to work for quite some time yet, even if they get updated with new versions which require iOS6 which I'll miss out on.
I'm strongly suspecting now that the battery will need replacing before the device becomes unusable due to newer OS and/or software requirements.
Decentralized repositories aren't completely better, either. It's all about hybrids, being able to switch between the better and worse of different designs.
Steam is a centralized game store, but it doesn't necessarily lock you in. You can buy individual games from retail or from competitors. But you come to Steam, and it's comforting at least to know the choice is there if you choose to exercise it.
Steam is a centralized game store, but it doesn't necessarily lock you in. You can buy individual games from retail or from competitors. But you come to Steam, and it's comforting at least to know the choice is there if you choose to exercise it.
Android? You knew about your iPad being closed, why did you buy it in the first place?
First, Android tablets did not exist back then.
Second, the same problem is true for Android. How many smartphones sold last year will never see jelly bean? If my Atrix wasn't rooted, Id still be on gingerbread. These devices have a one-year, two-max "relevant life expectancy".
That's a shame. Both ecologically and ethically.
Second, the same problem is true for Android. How many smartphones sold last year will never see jelly bean? If my Atrix wasn't rooted, Id still be on gingerbread. These devices have a one-year, two-max "relevant life expectancy".
That's a shame. Both ecologically and ethically.
Um, Android tablets predate the iPad:
http://phandroid.com/2009/11/11/archos-5-android-internet-ta...
Granted, they weren't very good and didn't come with Google apps, but they did exist.
http://phandroid.com/2009/11/11/archos-5-android-internet-ta...
Granted, they weren't very good and didn't come with Google apps, but they did exist.
When the iPad 1 launched in germany, i bought a 64GB model with 3G. I payed more than 800 Euros. And now Apple tells me "it's to old, go and sell it on eBay for 150 bucks".
Are you fucking kidding me?
I'm a Apple user for ages, i have two Mac Pros, three MacBook Pros (family), one MacBook Air and all iPhones that Apple ever made. I sold every old piece of hardware or replaced it when i needed a faster or newer model. But THIS is fucking sick.
Android is rising and in 6-12 month it will be even better. If Apple continues to ship crap like Siri and iOS6 Maps with all this false marketing Apple has a dark future ahead!
I bought a Nexus 7 a few weeks ago and it cost me 200 euro. It can do nearly the same as any iPad (i use it for - yes, instapaper, email, youtube and general media consumption). Sure, there are not as many Apps as in Apples App Store, but this is going to change.
To be said: i will never buy any iPad again. Sorry iPad, but i'm with Android now!
EDIT: As some sub-commenters said/ask: I'm not 100% sure what happens when i have old App versions (compatible with my iPad 1) and i need to reinstall iOS and all my Apps (for whatever reason- maybe a crash or anything else), which App Version do i get? The latest? Or the latest one that is compatible with my iPad 1?
Since many App developers are very happy to drop support for older iOS versions (which is fine - make better software!) i think it's time for Apple to provide some backwards support for older devices. Some mechanic for developers to freeze certain App Versions especially for older devices. It's not like we're talking about ancient technology, that thing isn't even 2 years old.
Are you fucking kidding me?
I'm a Apple user for ages, i have two Mac Pros, three MacBook Pros (family), one MacBook Air and all iPhones that Apple ever made. I sold every old piece of hardware or replaced it when i needed a faster or newer model. But THIS is fucking sick.
Android is rising and in 6-12 month it will be even better. If Apple continues to ship crap like Siri and iOS6 Maps with all this false marketing Apple has a dark future ahead!
I bought a Nexus 7 a few weeks ago and it cost me 200 euro. It can do nearly the same as any iPad (i use it for - yes, instapaper, email, youtube and general media consumption). Sure, there are not as many Apps as in Apples App Store, but this is going to change.
To be said: i will never buy any iPad again. Sorry iPad, but i'm with Android now!
EDIT: As some sub-commenters said/ask: I'm not 100% sure what happens when i have old App versions (compatible with my iPad 1) and i need to reinstall iOS and all my Apps (for whatever reason- maybe a crash or anything else), which App Version do i get? The latest? Or the latest one that is compatible with my iPad 1?
Since many App developers are very happy to drop support for older iOS versions (which is fine - make better software!) i think it's time for Apple to provide some backwards support for older devices. Some mechanic for developers to freeze certain App Versions especially for older devices. It's not like we're talking about ancient technology, that thing isn't even 2 years old.
Funny, I have the original iPad as well, but I haven't yet gotten the official message from Apple to sell it on eBay. Maybe they're sending them to Europe first?
Also, the strange thing is that it still runs as well as the day I bought it, and still does everything it did from Day 1, as well as new things that came with updates to iOS.
I forget, why am I supposed to be angry at Apple?
Also, the strange thing is that it still runs as well as the day I bought it, and still does everything it did from Day 1, as well as new things that came with updates to iOS.
I forget, why am I supposed to be angry at Apple?
Still runs as well? I'd love to know what set up you've got.
Since iOS 5 my iPad 1 has been utterly unusable - many multi second lags and endless application quits.
Even brand new out of the box the iPad 1 and also the original iPhone were incredibly unstable - particularly in safari.
Everyone turned a blind eye to it.
Since iOS 5 my iPad 1 has been utterly unusable - many multi second lags and endless application quits.
Even brand new out of the box the iPad 1 and also the original iPhone were incredibly unstable - particularly in safari.
Everyone turned a blind eye to it.
Mostly browsing (new Chrome works well), Netflix, LogMeIn Ignition for remote desktop, photo viewing, Skype.
Compared to my new MacBook Air it does seems a little slow starting apps, etc, but the thing is almost 2 1/2 years old, still has good battery life, and basically does everything I want. I think I've got my money's worth already, and expect to keep using it in the future. BTW, cost of those iOS upgrades - $0. Not a bad deal compared to the $50 that software like Parallels keeps asking for every year.
Compared to my new MacBook Air it does seems a little slow starting apps, etc, but the thing is almost 2 1/2 years old, still has good battery life, and basically does everything I want. I think I've got my money's worth already, and expect to keep using it in the future. BTW, cost of those iOS upgrades - $0. Not a bad deal compared to the $50 that software like Parallels keeps asking for every year.
I have an iPad 1 myself, and I am looking to replace it.
Browsing - complex pages (techcrunch is one particular abomination) have a tendency to crash Safari. Chrome was far too slow to bother with. Old Twitter app was crashing several times when loading in-app browser. Applications in general tend to quit a lot.
It worked wonderfully when it was out, but its barely usable now.
Browsing - complex pages (techcrunch is one particular abomination) have a tendency to crash Safari. Chrome was far too slow to bother with. Old Twitter app was crashing several times when loading in-app browser. Applications in general tend to quit a lot.
It worked wonderfully when it was out, but its barely usable now.
I get the Safari crashes too. the App Store is the worst though, seems to crash every other time I use it.
I think the problems arise when app devs have to jump through an increasing number of hoops to maintain backwards comparability...which I'm sure is additionally aggravating because, as you say, the iPad appears "to do everything it did from Day 1"
Of course, the comparability game is nothing new. The problem is that as an iOS user, you haven't choice to upgrade to the latesst compatible version of an app. You only have the choice to install thhe most recent version of the app. Or at least this is what I understand is a barrier for both devs and users. At least with PCs, devs had the option of providing 32 and 64 bit versions of their latest software
Of course, the comparability game is nothing new. The problem is that as an iOS user, you haven't choice to upgrade to the latesst compatible version of an app. You only have the choice to install thhe most recent version of the app. Or at least this is what I understand is a barrier for both devs and users. At least with PCs, devs had the option of providing 32 and 64 bit versions of their latest software
[deleted]
I didn't get an iPad 1, partly because I figured the 2nd or 3rd gen device would be so much better. Standing behind me in the iPad 2 line was a guy that had just sold his iPad 1 for $100 less than he'd paid for it. Essentially leasing an iPad for $100 a year sounds like a fine deal. It made me wonder why Apple doesn't do leases or some sort of hardware "subscriptions".
While I'm as annoyed at Apple as you are (environmentally friendly my arse), Android devices don't exactly have a history of frequent and timely software updates. The saving grace is that new apps often still support ancient OS releases.
Android in general has a quite bad version update track record, but that doesn't include the Nexus line of devices
Nexus One has just completely dropped support. Android's saving grace is that there is a community of programmers willing to support devices that are otherwise locked/unsupported. A lot like *nix in the early days. It's all grassroots from here on.
If only there was a way to distill that information to the less informed consumers.
If only there was a way to distill that information to the less informed consumers.
Is there an official (by Google) upgrade to Android 4.1 for the Nexus One?
The real reason here is a technical limitation. The Nexus One and many other devices from that generation have very little ROM space. Typically <500MB. ICS+ takes anywhere from 350MB-400MB of that. So the user is left is left with hardly any space to install apps. It can fit less than 5 apps probably.
Even with custom ICS and JB roms this is a problem, but there people know what they are getting into before hand, and also for rooted devices, there's ext2sd which basically uses your sdcard to store user data.
Google fixed this with Nexus S and forwards. So we have to wait and see how long the Nexus S will be updated.
Even with custom ICS and JB roms this is a problem, but there people know what they are getting into before hand, and also for rooted devices, there's ext2sd which basically uses your sdcard to store user data.
Google fixed this with Nexus S and forwards. So we have to wait and see how long the Nexus S will be updated.
If you look at the track record, they treat the current generation Nexus very well, and older models less so. Forget about ICS, the Nexus One didn't get Gingerbread for over 4 months after it was released. It did, however, get Froyo almost instantly, just like the Galaxy Nexus recently got JB almost instantly.
Not so sure about that. What happens if you need to restore your iPad 1 and redownload all the Apps? Do you get the latest version, or the latest compatible version of the App, even if the developer dropped support for your iOS version?
The latest version (if it works) - iTunes on your Mac/PC should store the latest compatible one though. Yes, it's a mess. Apple really need some kind of plan for discontinued devices. What happens when a critical flaw is discovered in Mobile Safari 5 and suddenly the 15 million iPad users are vulnerable to drive-by downloads?
They push an update to iOS 5? Which has OTA self-updates.
Lion and Snow Leopard and Vista and countless other old OSes get updates. XP still won't get EOS-ed for another 2 years.
Lion and Snow Leopard and Vista and countless other old OSes get updates. XP still won't get EOS-ed for another 2 years.
They haven't done this for vulnerabilities in either 3.1.3 or 4.2.1, the other two EOL versions. I guess there probably aren't enough users of these to make them attractive to exploits, but the number of users stuck on iOS5 will likely stay in the 8 digits for a while. Whereas many people have been conditioned to buy a new phone every 24 months, I doubt this applies to iPads and iPod Touches as well. I don't know if that kind of number makes them a sufficiently attractive target for criminals.
It's not like Android devices have a good track record regarding updates.
I'm an iPad 1 user bought when it launched on USA (imported, I'm on Europe) and I use it every day. From RSS (Reeder) to video streaming (Plex) and SSH (Prompt).
It's running iOS5 good enough, iOS6 is out but my iPad 1 hasn't imploded and it's still working. There may be some Apps that won't work on it in the near future, but I doubt it will bother me enough to upgrade or switch to a worse platform. Most apps still target 4.2.
I'm an iPad 1 user bought when it launched on USA (imported, I'm on Europe) and I use it every day. From RSS (Reeder) to video streaming (Plex) and SSH (Prompt).
It's running iOS5 good enough, iOS6 is out but my iPad 1 hasn't imploded and it's still working. There may be some Apps that won't work on it in the near future, but I doubt it will bother me enough to upgrade or switch to a worse platform. Most apps still target 4.2.
So you are saying iOS 6 sucks, yet you complain you can't install iOS 6 on iPad 1? Why not just stay on iOS 5? It works great and almost all the apps work on it.
Out of interest, how long did you expect your original iPad to continue to get OS updates?
Mine is ~28 months old now. Personally I'm not all that unhappy with that sort of support lifespan for what to me was pretty much bought as a "tech toy", admittedly and expensive one, but I never expected decades of support for it… (I've got a friend who bought her iPad1 about 5 weeks before the iPad2 came out, she's somewhat less happy than I am…)
Mine is ~28 months old now. Personally I'm not all that unhappy with that sort of support lifespan for what to me was pretty much bought as a "tech toy", admittedly and expensive one, but I never expected decades of support for it… (I've got a friend who bought her iPad1 about 5 weeks before the iPad2 came out, she's somewhat less happy than I am…)
Tell me more about how you bought a smaller device two years after your iPad and it does everything the iPad did for less money.
I bought a Nexus 7 a little while back and my initial reaction was similar to yours. Now, I'd rather use my old iPad gen 1 than the brand new dual core Nexus 7, which -- among other things -- can seize up so badly when doing something as simple as typing a URL that it misses touch events altogether.
Looks like you're a victim of the same bug as me: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/mobile/loqbCbK...
I'm sending it back for a replacement but in the short-term a factory reset fixes it.
I'm sending it back for a replacement but in the short-term a factory reset fixes it.
Didn't notice this by now, but i can say that i'm pretty happy with it (for now). As i said in my initial comment, Android has problems, but if you think back to the first iOS versions, there were a lot of problems. Many people dont remember that, but before iOS 4 there were a lot of pretty nasty bugs.
The other thing is, if android improves more over time, it's doesn't hurt so much when they drop support for device X after 2 years when you only paid 200-250 Euro/Dollar. If you run a 2 year cycle of devise-replacing for a price like that, i'm perfectly fine with it.
The other thing is, if android improves more over time, it's doesn't hurt so much when they drop support for device X after 2 years when you only paid 200-250 Euro/Dollar. If you run a 2 year cycle of devise-replacing for a price like that, i'm perfectly fine with it.
The nexus 7 is scarcely a 1.0 device (and I had an iPad on release day and it worked fine on iOS 3.x). My kindle fire, with its many flaws has never seized up this way.
I'm curious how long Google will provide updates to the Nexus 7 after they stop selling it? What's a "reasonable" time?
I would hope 3 years or so. At least in the case of the Nexus 7 being supported in AOSP it is likely community developers will keep it updated after Google drops official support.
iPad 1 (April 2010) ----
Nexus 7 (September 2012)
So that's nearly two and a half years. You would hope the Nexus could do everything the iPad could at a substantially cheaper price.
So that's nearly two and a half years. You would hope the Nexus could do everything the iPad could at a substantially cheaper price.
As a developer, I would be happy to no longer have to deal with iPad 1's. They really have little memory to work with and it tends to constantly run out. Particularly when you try to pre-render things in memory to have them smoothly scroll into view.
As a reminder, iPad RAM amounts (from Wikipedia):
As a reminder, iPad RAM amounts (from Wikipedia):
1st generation 256 MB DDR
2nd generation 512 MB DDR2
3rd generation 1 GB DDR2
When they originally released iPad 1, they probably didn't quite anticipate how graphical and visual the user interfaces would eventually turn out to be.
I mean... they did release a device that's basically just a huge screen...
I mean... they did release a device that's basically just a huge screen...
> So I can't blame Apple for feeling the same way. When they originally released iPad 1, they probably didn't quite anticipate how graphical and visual the user interfaces would eventually turn out to be.
Oh yeah ? Apple has always skimped out on ram on every single device and made you pay a premium to get more. That wasn't a real problem on macs in the past because it wasn't difficult to add ram yourself, but now with tablets and the new macbook air and macbook pro retina.. that's kind of a problem.
I bought one of the first macbook air that had the ram soldered to the board without thinking. If I had known that Mac OS Lion and Mountain Lion would've become so bloated I wouldn't have bought the 2gb model that I sold for a measly 200 euros recently. This piece of shit couldn't browse the web with multiple tabs open without swapping even though the same task was okay in the past with Windows XP and 512mb of ram. (I probably could have gotten more but I didn't WANT to sell it for more because I would have felt like I'd be robbing someone by selling them a defective device for a premium) By the way, there wasn't a single PC vendor selling laptops with less than 4gb of ram, when I bought my MBA, even el cheapo laptops that sold for $400 had 4gb of ram (what does it says about Apple ?). I was kind of retarded to buy the 2gb MBA, and I should've spent a little more for the 4gb, but I don't really regret it either since I opened my eyes and sold all my Apple devices, and will never buy anything from apple again.
It was obvious to a LOT of people that the first iPad was way too lacking in power and would be prone to something akin to planned obsolescence. Even me, who got fucked by the Macbook air, knew that the first iPad was indecent (I waited for the iPad 2 before I got my first tablet.)
Look at the top of the line in the android world : the (tablet) Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, which has a much lower resolution than the iPad Retina (and thus less hefty memory needs for the apps), has 2gb of ram inside, future proofing it a bit against future applications. The (phone) Galaxy Note 2 also has 2gb of ram, as do some of the variants of the Galaxy S3, now that's a real top of the line phone. When I saw the retina iPad for the first time, my first impressions, after the initial "wow" you get for the screen, was, the specs are underwhelming for this kind of device.
Apple is all about the shiny. The 13" Macbook Pro still has 4gb of ram as a standard in the entry level, even though it sells for 1249 euros. I've seen PC laptops under 999 euros sold with 8gb of ram, 1TB hard drives, core i7 and a nvidia chip inside (rather than the shitty intel graphic chip that's included in the entry MBP).
I'm done getting ripped off by Apple.
Oh yeah ? Apple has always skimped out on ram on every single device and made you pay a premium to get more. That wasn't a real problem on macs in the past because it wasn't difficult to add ram yourself, but now with tablets and the new macbook air and macbook pro retina.. that's kind of a problem.
I bought one of the first macbook air that had the ram soldered to the board without thinking. If I had known that Mac OS Lion and Mountain Lion would've become so bloated I wouldn't have bought the 2gb model that I sold for a measly 200 euros recently. This piece of shit couldn't browse the web with multiple tabs open without swapping even though the same task was okay in the past with Windows XP and 512mb of ram. (I probably could have gotten more but I didn't WANT to sell it for more because I would have felt like I'd be robbing someone by selling them a defective device for a premium) By the way, there wasn't a single PC vendor selling laptops with less than 4gb of ram, when I bought my MBA, even el cheapo laptops that sold for $400 had 4gb of ram (what does it says about Apple ?). I was kind of retarded to buy the 2gb MBA, and I should've spent a little more for the 4gb, but I don't really regret it either since I opened my eyes and sold all my Apple devices, and will never buy anything from apple again.
It was obvious to a LOT of people that the first iPad was way too lacking in power and would be prone to something akin to planned obsolescence. Even me, who got fucked by the Macbook air, knew that the first iPad was indecent (I waited for the iPad 2 before I got my first tablet.)
Look at the top of the line in the android world : the (tablet) Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, which has a much lower resolution than the iPad Retina (and thus less hefty memory needs for the apps), has 2gb of ram inside, future proofing it a bit against future applications. The (phone) Galaxy Note 2 also has 2gb of ram, as do some of the variants of the Galaxy S3, now that's a real top of the line phone. When I saw the retina iPad for the first time, my first impressions, after the initial "wow" you get for the screen, was, the specs are underwhelming for this kind of device.
Apple is all about the shiny. The 13" Macbook Pro still has 4gb of ram as a standard in the entry level, even though it sells for 1249 euros. I've seen PC laptops under 999 euros sold with 8gb of ram, 1TB hard drives, core i7 and a nvidia chip inside (rather than the shitty intel graphic chip that's included in the entry MBP).
I'm done getting ripped off by Apple.
I really don't know where to start with this ridiculous diatribe.
Firstly as for your MacBook Air. OSX runs fine with 2GB and shouldn't be swapping constantly for browsing. And not sure why you are complaining that you got 200 euros for a 4 year old machine.
Secondly you seem to be really bitter about not buying the cheaper and arguably nastier laptops. Why not buy them ? Clearly the only thing that concerns you is specs so why not buy an Apple ?
Thirdly a LOT of people thought the iPad was an incredibly feat of engineering to get all that it did into such a small form factor. Seems to be a lot of revisionist history there.
Firstly as for your MacBook Air. OSX runs fine with 2GB and shouldn't be swapping constantly for browsing. And not sure why you are complaining that you got 200 euros for a 4 year old machine.
Secondly you seem to be really bitter about not buying the cheaper and arguably nastier laptops. Why not buy them ? Clearly the only thing that concerns you is specs so why not buy an Apple ?
Thirdly a LOT of people thought the iPad was an incredibly feat of engineering to get all that it did into such a small form factor. Seems to be a lot of revisionist history there.
>Firstly as for your MacBook Air. OSX runs fine with 2GB and shouldn't be swapping constantly for browsing
What the hell are you smoking. Safari with multiple tabs will eat all the remaining memory. The whole system itself took 1,4 gb, there was only 700 mb left after startup on a CLEAN system, formatted and reinstalled without a single program running in the background (Mountain Lion).
> And not sure why you are complaining that you got 200 euros for a 4 year old machine.
Two years old actually. It's a late 2010 MBA. And I'm not complaining, I'm actually saying that I could have sold it for more but didn't bother and sold it myself for 200 euros to get rid of it faster AND to avoid the feeling of ripping off someone (which I would have felt if I had sold it for more, because I consider it a DEAD machine. A useless machine. You can't add ram and the base system is already overloaded with its 2gb. Selling it for what I could have gotten from it (you should look up what people can actually get from selling Apple devices even when they suck) would have been ripping off someone else.)
>Secondly you seem to be really bitter about not buying the cheaper and arguably nastier laptops. Why not buy them ? Clearly the only thing that concerns you is specs so why not buy an Apple ?
I just did that, right now. Am I not free to speak my mind on Apple just like you did when you called those laptops "nasty" ?
> Thirdly a LOT of people thought the iPad was an incredibly feat of engineering to get all that it did into such a small form factor. Seems to be a lot of revisionist history there.
Putting mobile phone hardware inside an iPad's case is not a great "feat of engineering". I would have agreed with you if you called iOS a great feat of (software) engineering, and its user interface revolutionary for the time. But there is nothing special about the iPad's hardware. We got mobile phones today that are far more powerful than the first iPad and many mobile phone at the time had hardware similar to the iPad, it's not like Apple did anything special there, they just put a big screen and battery inside an aluminum case, where in the flying fuck do you see a great feat of engineering ? the bullshit, it hurts.
Ultimately, what's attractive about apple is what their software engineers do. And what's pushing me off is their business practice, closedness, cheapening out on specs to create planned obscolescence.
iOS was what made the iPad great and possible, as it did for the iPhone. And OS X used to be a great OS, until they added so much bloat it couldn't run on 2gb of ram. No apple fanboy here is going to admit it, but the iPad had 256mb of ram to ensure that people would upgrade to the next iPad, end of the line. Just like the first iPhone didn't have 3g even when top of the line phones from competitors had 3g, to make the early adopters spend even more money the year after.
Apple has been ripping off its customers since forever, it's just the last straw. Do you remember the days of the cd-writer/dvd reader combo you could find on many Macs even when the cheapeast PCs had DVD writers ? I do. Apple is a cheap company, that sells cheap hardware with an expensive case. It's hard not to think so, I can recall so many examples of them behaving that way. Do you know the price difference there was even back in the days of the combo drives in the mac between a combo and a dvd writer ? Nothing, it was practically nothing, a matter of a few euros. But to get a mac with a dvd writer inside you had to buy the one that cost much more in the lineup with a better processor and so on. Ridiculous. I can't believe we, as in the collective of Apple customers around the world, put up with so much shit for so long.
The only thing that saves Apple is the software, and it won't last for long, because the competition is getting much better at this. Windows 7 is stable and really nice to use, Android Jelly Bean runs as smooth on my Nexus 7 as iOS did on my iPad 2. Goodbye Apple, it was fun while it lasted.
What the hell are you smoking. Safari with multiple tabs will eat all the remaining memory. The whole system itself took 1,4 gb, there was only 700 mb left after startup on a CLEAN system, formatted and reinstalled without a single program running in the background (Mountain Lion).
> And not sure why you are complaining that you got 200 euros for a 4 year old machine.
Two years old actually. It's a late 2010 MBA. And I'm not complaining, I'm actually saying that I could have sold it for more but didn't bother and sold it myself for 200 euros to get rid of it faster AND to avoid the feeling of ripping off someone (which I would have felt if I had sold it for more, because I consider it a DEAD machine. A useless machine. You can't add ram and the base system is already overloaded with its 2gb. Selling it for what I could have gotten from it (you should look up what people can actually get from selling Apple devices even when they suck) would have been ripping off someone else.)
>Secondly you seem to be really bitter about not buying the cheaper and arguably nastier laptops. Why not buy them ? Clearly the only thing that concerns you is specs so why not buy an Apple ?
I just did that, right now. Am I not free to speak my mind on Apple just like you did when you called those laptops "nasty" ?
> Thirdly a LOT of people thought the iPad was an incredibly feat of engineering to get all that it did into such a small form factor. Seems to be a lot of revisionist history there.
Putting mobile phone hardware inside an iPad's case is not a great "feat of engineering". I would have agreed with you if you called iOS a great feat of (software) engineering, and its user interface revolutionary for the time. But there is nothing special about the iPad's hardware. We got mobile phones today that are far more powerful than the first iPad and many mobile phone at the time had hardware similar to the iPad, it's not like Apple did anything special there, they just put a big screen and battery inside an aluminum case, where in the flying fuck do you see a great feat of engineering ? the bullshit, it hurts.
Ultimately, what's attractive about apple is what their software engineers do. And what's pushing me off is their business practice, closedness, cheapening out on specs to create planned obscolescence.
iOS was what made the iPad great and possible, as it did for the iPhone. And OS X used to be a great OS, until they added so much bloat it couldn't run on 2gb of ram. No apple fanboy here is going to admit it, but the iPad had 256mb of ram to ensure that people would upgrade to the next iPad, end of the line. Just like the first iPhone didn't have 3g even when top of the line phones from competitors had 3g, to make the early adopters spend even more money the year after.
Apple has been ripping off its customers since forever, it's just the last straw. Do you remember the days of the cd-writer/dvd reader combo you could find on many Macs even when the cheapeast PCs had DVD writers ? I do. Apple is a cheap company, that sells cheap hardware with an expensive case. It's hard not to think so, I can recall so many examples of them behaving that way. Do you know the price difference there was even back in the days of the combo drives in the mac between a combo and a dvd writer ? Nothing, it was practically nothing, a matter of a few euros. But to get a mac with a dvd writer inside you had to buy the one that cost much more in the lineup with a better processor and so on. Ridiculous. I can't believe we, as in the collective of Apple customers around the world, put up with so much shit for so long.
The only thing that saves Apple is the software, and it won't last for long, because the competition is getting much better at this. Windows 7 is stable and really nice to use, Android Jelly Bean runs as smooth on my Nexus 7 as iOS did on my iPad 2. Goodbye Apple, it was fun while it lasted.
I have a 2010 MBA with 2Gb of RAM, it only chugs on browser stuff when I've got a VM running and compiling, a terminal running various bits and 3 windows with about 6-7 tabs open. It works fine. Your personal experience is not a good way to go "What the hell are you smoking", as there's many of us with that model who've had nothing but happy happy joy times with it.
I am going to have to agree with Nicole060 here.
I recently bought one of the new Macbook Pros for work - non retina, 4GB RAM.
It became as slow as hell. I am a developer.. I need at least one VM with IE open, I need to have Chrome open, photoshop open, xcode, etc. Luckily I was able to upgrade it with 16GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM, and it's now a pleasure to work with.
Apple only offers an 8GB increase on their online store at 100$ for my macbook pro.. and at a 100$ increase.. In my opinion, 8GB should be standard.
I love my Macbook, wouldn't give it up, I like using OSX, but I really do believe that Apple tends to rip us off when it comes to specs. And FYI, I can't imagine using OSX with 2GB.. my mac mini had 2 GB of RAM and it ran like a pig until I got 4GB of RAM into it.
We all know Apple has outrageous margins on their products.. fine, I am not against them making money. However, I do wish they invested more into their products.
It became as slow as hell. I am a developer.. I need at least one VM with IE open, I need to have Chrome open, photoshop open, xcode, etc. Luckily I was able to upgrade it with 16GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM, and it's now a pleasure to work with.
Apple only offers an 8GB increase on their online store at 100$ for my macbook pro.. and at a 100$ increase.. In my opinion, 8GB should be standard.
I love my Macbook, wouldn't give it up, I like using OSX, but I really do believe that Apple tends to rip us off when it comes to specs. And FYI, I can't imagine using OSX with 2GB.. my mac mini had 2 GB of RAM and it ran like a pig until I got 4GB of RAM into it.
We all know Apple has outrageous margins on their products.. fine, I am not against them making money. However, I do wish they invested more into their products.
I've seen a 2GB mini running Lion where Excel and Word were all but unusable whenever a Time Machine backup started. Perhaps a bit of tuning would have fixed the problem, but additional RAM was an easier fix.
On the other hand, on my 4GB (Ivy Bridge, 11-inch) MacBook Air, I regularly run Visual Studio on Windows (8, 32-bit) under VMware, with IE, IIS, and MS SQL Server running in the VM, along with a number of OS X apps (Terminal, Activity Monitor, Console, Safari, Mail, Preview, Emacs, X11, Script Debugger, and several resident utilities like Alfred and SizeUp), and have no problem dipping in and out of larger apps like Illustrator and Photoshop as needed with few performance problems beyond short (no more than a second or two) delays when switching to a long-inactive app. Do my 8GB MBP work more smoothly? Undoubtedly. But I'm running a much larger Windows (Server 2012, 64-bit) VM on this, and often another Windows, FreeBSD, or Linux VM, and I rarely quit anything unless I'm updating it or rebooting, so I generally have all of the above open plus iTunes, Xcode, Transmit, Excel, QuickBooks, and half of CS6. The only time I see even minor delays is when I nearly overcommit RAM or CPU cores in VMware, open insanely large files (in Photoshop, say), concurrently run several large, parallel compilations that manage to peg nearly an entire core in kernel mode, or go to town with live output from frequently fired dtrace probes.
Were you, by chance, swapping to a mechanical hard drive? If so, and for anyone else whose Mac "crawls" with lots of apps loaded, the single best way to make your machine usable is to replace the hard drive with an SSD. All recent MacBooks that don't come with "built-in flash storage" have user-replaceable hard drives (as in, "easy directions in the manual and doesn't void AppleCare"); the Sandy and Ivy Bridge models even support 6Gbps drives at full speed.
As for the iPad 1, I thought it was slow even on iOS 3.2. It was still quite usable and useful, however.
On the other hand, on my 4GB (Ivy Bridge, 11-inch) MacBook Air, I regularly run Visual Studio on Windows (8, 32-bit) under VMware, with IE, IIS, and MS SQL Server running in the VM, along with a number of OS X apps (Terminal, Activity Monitor, Console, Safari, Mail, Preview, Emacs, X11, Script Debugger, and several resident utilities like Alfred and SizeUp), and have no problem dipping in and out of larger apps like Illustrator and Photoshop as needed with few performance problems beyond short (no more than a second or two) delays when switching to a long-inactive app. Do my 8GB MBP work more smoothly? Undoubtedly. But I'm running a much larger Windows (Server 2012, 64-bit) VM on this, and often another Windows, FreeBSD, or Linux VM, and I rarely quit anything unless I'm updating it or rebooting, so I generally have all of the above open plus iTunes, Xcode, Transmit, Excel, QuickBooks, and half of CS6. The only time I see even minor delays is when I nearly overcommit RAM or CPU cores in VMware, open insanely large files (in Photoshop, say), concurrently run several large, parallel compilations that manage to peg nearly an entire core in kernel mode, or go to town with live output from frequently fired dtrace probes.
Were you, by chance, swapping to a mechanical hard drive? If so, and for anyone else whose Mac "crawls" with lots of apps loaded, the single best way to make your machine usable is to replace the hard drive with an SSD. All recent MacBooks that don't come with "built-in flash storage" have user-replaceable hard drives (as in, "easy directions in the manual and doesn't void AppleCare"); the Sandy and Ivy Bridge models even support 6Gbps drives at full speed.
As for the iPad 1, I thought it was slow even on iOS 3.2. It was still quite usable and useful, however.
Yes, both are using mechanical harddisks.
I also use utilities like Alfred, etc... I can see how a fast SSD makes your system smoother.
An SSD is my next desirable upgrade.. but a considerable expense seeing as I need at least 512GB (I dualboot OSX and Windows)
I also use utilities like Alfred, etc... I can see how a fast SSD makes your system smoother.
An SSD is my next desirable upgrade.. but a considerable expense seeing as I need at least 512GB (I dualboot OSX and Windows)
Check out the Seagate Momentus XT hybrid drive. I put one in my MacBook Pro and it's a screamer. Almost as fast as a standalone SSD.
Firstly as for your MacBook Air. OSX runs fine with 2GB and shouldn't be swapping constantly for browsing. And not sure why you are complaining that you got 200 euros for a 4 year old machine.
This wasn't true for me on my 2GB 2006 Macbook running Snow Leopard in 2009, so I don't see how it could be true now.
Thirdly a LOT of people thought the iPad was an incredibly feat of engineering to get all that it did into such a small form factor.
Marco is spot-on here, though: many reviewers commented on the frequent page reloading in Safari, claiming (correctly) that the RAM would be an issue in the future. This was the main issue preventing me from getting an iPad 1.
This wasn't true for me on my 2GB 2006 Macbook running Snow Leopard in 2009, so I don't see how it could be true now.
Thirdly a LOT of people thought the iPad was an incredibly feat of engineering to get all that it did into such a small form factor.
Marco is spot-on here, though: many reviewers commented on the frequent page reloading in Safari, claiming (correctly) that the RAM would be an issue in the future. This was the main issue preventing me from getting an iPad 1.
While the iPad1 is noticeably slower, I have found it running out of RAM around the same time as the iPad3 during app development. Oddly enough, the iPad2 really is the best iPad right now in terms of overall package performance. Of course the retina screen looks great, but the iPad3 hardware is just barely enough to support it. I'm expecting the iPad4 to really be the retina device to have.
>Oddly enough, the iPad2 really is the best iPad right now in terms of overall package performance.
I agree. For me it's the fact that the iPad2 stays cool after any period of usage. iPad3 has a noticable heat spot on the back and it really bothers me, it shouldn't, but it does.
I agree. For me it's the fact that the iPad2 stays cool after any period of usage. iPad3 has a noticable heat spot on the back and it really bothers me, it shouldn't, but it does.
(warning: tangential)
"Knowing Apple, that sounds like a far more plausible explanation than the most popular theory I’ve heard: that Apple just wants to force iPad 1 owners to buy new iPads."
I totally believe this is true on the iPad front, but I can't imagine any other reason that iOS 6 would support the iPhone 3GS but not the 3rd generation iPod Touch. They have very nearly the exact same specifications, except one has a GSM radio in it and the other doesn't. I wouldn't mind if it didn't get further updates (three years is pretty decent update-wise), but the disparity is slightly irritating.
"Knowing Apple, that sounds like a far more plausible explanation than the most popular theory I’ve heard: that Apple just wants to force iPad 1 owners to buy new iPads."
I totally believe this is true on the iPad front, but I can't imagine any other reason that iOS 6 would support the iPhone 3GS but not the 3rd generation iPod Touch. They have very nearly the exact same specifications, except one has a GSM radio in it and the other doesn't. I wouldn't mind if it didn't get further updates (three years is pretty decent update-wise), but the disparity is slightly irritating.
I'm wondering about the two-year or similar contracts people signed when they purchased or obtained for free a 3GS? Perhaps there's a corner case when someone got a 3GS + 2 year contract just five months ago. Might be some backlash if the device they planned to use for the next 19 months couldn't be upgraded to the latest iOS. Note this isn't an issue with iPod Touch or iPad due to lack of contracts (except perhaps an iPad data contract? But I'm under the impression those are more flexible, month-to-month etc).
Here's an idea:
The moment the device is no longer supported, unlock the bootloader. If you really felt philanthropic, release some docs on the hardware interfaces.
This way Linux / *BSD / Haiku / whatever could be ported and extend the usable life of the device. This would foster a thriving second hand market, massively reduce the security risks that users of the older devices are exposed to, help clear old stock, keep devices out of landfills and so on.
Apple has already said they don't support the device anymore, so they have nothing to lose by opening it up (if we accept that the reason Apple locks down their bootloaders etc is to ease the burden of support from people breaking their own devices, not an argument I entirely buy...).
The moment the device is no longer supported, unlock the bootloader. If you really felt philanthropic, release some docs on the hardware interfaces.
This way Linux / *BSD / Haiku / whatever could be ported and extend the usable life of the device. This would foster a thriving second hand market, massively reduce the security risks that users of the older devices are exposed to, help clear old stock, keep devices out of landfills and so on.
Apple has already said they don't support the device anymore, so they have nothing to lose by opening it up (if we accept that the reason Apple locks down their bootloaders etc is to ease the burden of support from people breaking their own devices, not an argument I entirely buy...).
Why ? The device still works on iOS5 and will still run 99% of the apps available today and over the next few years.
Most developers are still going to be targeting iOS4+ for a while to come.
Most developers are still going to be targeting iOS4+ for a while to come.
Eleven good reasons:
Furthermore, "next few years" seems quite optimistic to me. There's no harm in unlocking these unsupported devices, then people can EITHER run iOS 4/5 and live with the flaws OR run their own code. Nobody loses!
(Note as well that the bugs are things like "loading a web page could result in arbitrary code execution").
mfincham@desktop:~/Desktop$ grep "Subject:" < ios6.eml
Subject: APPLE-SA-2012-09-19-1 iOS 6
mfincham@desktop:~/Desktop$ grep "code execution" < ios6.eml | wc -l
11
Furthermore, "next few years" seems quite optimistic to me. There's no harm in unlocking these unsupported devices, then people can EITHER run iOS 4/5 and live with the flaws OR run their own code. Nobody loses!
(Note as well that the bugs are things like "loading a web page could result in arbitrary code execution").
I agree. Top iOS app developers like Marco are dying to move their apps to iOS 6 (according to their podcasts + blog posts), so I think we can measure app compatibility for the iPad 1 in months, not years.
What Apple has done with the iPad 1 (I'll refrain from speculating on motives, as I have absolutely no idea why they actually EOL'd it) is still not as bad as what they've done with armv6 devices. A developer, if they want (and some won't), can still support the iPad 1 fairly easily (or as easily as any support for iOS 5). The iPhone 3G and older, on the other hand, are truly unsupported; it is impossible to build for these devices in the iOS 6 SDK[1], making them a nightmare to support (and impossible to support alongside armv7s code for the new iPhone).
[1]: http://blog.chpwn.com/post/31824877081
[1]: http://blog.chpwn.com/post/31824877081
I don't get why the author feels the need to rationalize the decision as not motivated by money. Sure, it isn't the whole reason. But there is just little motivation to get iOS 6 on the iPad. Apple does a better job than pretty much everyone else in this area, but dropping hardware from iOS6 is win-win from Apple's perspective. Easier engineering effort while incentivizing upgrades.
I'm one of those iPad 1 owners left out of iOS 6, and I don't begrudge Apple that. If it was that important to me, I'd plunk down the cash.
I'm one of those iPad 1 owners left out of iOS 6, and I don't begrudge Apple that. If it was that important to me, I'd plunk down the cash.
The iPad 1 feels much slower than the iPhone 3GS does today. Although I don't like this move, having played with my friends iPad 1 recently. I feel that anything further than iOS6 might slow down the device considerably. When I installed iOS6 on my 4S it became much faster which is unusual for me.
I bought the 1st gen iPad knowing it was only going to be a stop gap measure until a newer version with a Camera came out (which I thought was going to be the killer feature - turns out I rarely use it) so I only bought the baseline version. I found the $499 baseline price a steal which quickly turned into my most used device. The value of Apple's products go way down the higher up the range of models you go, so I can see why iPad 1 owners may be upset - but it shouldn't be unexpected that the resale value of top range models depreciate faster than the baseline.
So I can't complain, I've got a lot of utility out of the iPad1 whose experience led me to buy the top of the line Retina iPad 3 when it came out. I was keeping the old iPad 1 around for compatibility (as an iOS dev) but I guess this means I wont need to hold onto it for much longer :).
So I can't complain, I've got a lot of utility out of the iPad1 whose experience led me to buy the top of the line Retina iPad 3 when it came out. I was keeping the old iPad 1 around for compatibility (as an iOS dev) but I guess this means I wont need to hold onto it for much longer :).
Totally didn't see this coming. I was actually looking into Settings to see if it detects the iOS 6 release and only afterwards I bothered searching the net and finding out there will be no iOS 6 update!
But this is not the biggest disappointment about the iPad1.
The big one was how iPad1 doesn't have a camera and not long after I bought it (when it finally arrived in the EU) Apple released the iPad 2 which had a camera!
How hard could it have been to engineer an external camera for the iPad1 that could be plugged in via a docking connector? This way I could use the iPad upside-down and actually have is usable as a video conferencing device.
I can't even give it to my parents as a laptop replacement (what people imagine it could be) since Skype video won't work on it!
But this is not the biggest disappointment about the iPad1.
The big one was how iPad1 doesn't have a camera and not long after I bought it (when it finally arrived in the EU) Apple released the iPad 2 which had a camera!
How hard could it have been to engineer an external camera for the iPad1 that could be plugged in via a docking connector? This way I could use the iPad upside-down and actually have is usable as a video conferencing device.
I can't even give it to my parents as a laptop replacement (what people imagine it could be) since Skype video won't work on it!
Its an interesting business question, "How much do we invest in supporting the old generation vs the return?"
Apple really hasn't set a way to price it. They could of course, they could price an iPad 1 version of IOS6 to see what the market would pay for the capability. But you get maybe one shot at that.
They could do an 'upgrade today' offer where you sent them and iPad and they gave you a discount on a new iPad, but if they sold you the new iPad at the 'loaded cost' (which is COGS + warranty support + inventory costs) it might not be as much of a discount as you could get by just applying the money you got on ebay toward a new one.
Apple really hasn't set a way to price it. They could of course, they could price an iPad 1 version of IOS6 to see what the market would pay for the capability. But you get maybe one shot at that.
They could do an 'upgrade today' offer where you sent them and iPad and they gave you a discount on a new iPad, but if they sold you the new iPad at the 'loaded cost' (which is COGS + warranty support + inventory costs) it might not be as much of a discount as you could get by just applying the money you got on ebay toward a new one.
I would have liked iOS 6 but you know what? My iPad still works and still does everything I bought it to do. Sure, it might be cool to have some of the new features but I'm perfectly happy without them.
Apple are horrible for trying to make people upgrade - thats for sure, but really, what apps 'require ios 6'? I'm still using an iphone3 (last os upgrade was a stripped down version of ios4) and the only thing I haven't been able to download because it won't work on my phone was a some game once that was just a timewaster anyway.
The most important thing by far on a phone/tablet is the web. It doesn't care about your OS version... It was like this on the iphone1 and it will be on the ipad10.
The most important thing by far on a phone/tablet is the web. It doesn't care about your OS version... It was like this on the iphone1 and it will be on the ipad10.
What apps "require" ICS? Isn't Gingerbread good enough? :)
The point is that lack updates hurts consumers. This is no less true when Apple does it than when Android OEMs and carriers do.
The point is that lack updates hurts consumers. This is no less true when Apple does it than when Android OEMs and carriers do.
How much more would it have cost to put an extra 256MB in the original iPad? Apple has more money in the bank than they know what to do with; over $100B. It might be a better use of the money to give a little extra RAM to make their devices run better.
Apple didn't get that money taking low margins on hardware. Overall this probably helps their new iPad sales, the vocal minority complain and everyone else probably either stays on ios5 or upgrades.
It creates a small fragment in the iOS market. Should developers move to iOS6 only support in a few months or keep supporting the iPad 1?
What trouble me is when there's a new apple release, older devices seems to automagically slow down.
When I first bought the ipad1, it was crazy fast. Everyone was amazed about the speed things would move and open. Now, everything is do damn painful to use.. it's lagging and taking eternity to do trivial tasks. (And by the way, I've formatted it and there's practically nothing on it).
My guess would be that more recent os use more memory to be more efficient on newer devices while rendering older devices slower.
I hope it's the reason, and not a voluntary "let's slow you down so you buy a new one".
When I first bought the ipad1, it was crazy fast. Everyone was amazed about the speed things would move and open. Now, everything is do damn painful to use.. it's lagging and taking eternity to do trivial tasks. (And by the way, I've formatted it and there's practically nothing on it).
My guess would be that more recent os use more memory to be more efficient on newer devices while rendering older devices slower.
I hope it's the reason, and not a voluntary "let's slow you down so you buy a new one".
Couldn't it be just perception? I still use an iPhone 3G and I remember I did not want to touch the iPhone 4 when it came out because it was a lot faster than my old 3G and I would realize it even more before playing with a 4. Now I've used a lot a 4S and the 3G is slow as hell, but I would think it is just my perception.
I use an iPad 1 and haven't used any new one for more than 5 minutes and the iPad 1 feels exactly as fast as when I first bought it.
I think the same thing happens in computers. I run a hackintosh machine with an SSD and pretty good hardware and the other day I was putting together an old PC to run MAME (I'm building an arcade cabinet) and god, the thing is slow as hell. I'm sure it was just as slow then I was using it (Pentium D with 3 Gigs of RAM), it just that we are used to be faster now.
EDIT: Note that new app versions probably ARE slower than older ones in old hardware. If the developer is using the last iPad available to test and neglecting older hardware is what happens. Back when I did native apps we used the best hardware available to develop and low-medium end to test in order to avoid this and optimize our code for speed on not-so-new hardware.
I use an iPad 1 and haven't used any new one for more than 5 minutes and the iPad 1 feels exactly as fast as when I first bought it.
I think the same thing happens in computers. I run a hackintosh machine with an SSD and pretty good hardware and the other day I was putting together an old PC to run MAME (I'm building an arcade cabinet) and god, the thing is slow as hell. I'm sure it was just as slow then I was using it (Pentium D with 3 Gigs of RAM), it just that we are used to be faster now.
EDIT: Note that new app versions probably ARE slower than older ones in old hardware. If the developer is using the last iPad available to test and neglecting older hardware is what happens. Back when I did native apps we used the best hardware available to develop and low-medium end to test in order to avoid this and optimize our code for speed on not-so-new hardware.
This is going to become a really problem for developers. As people upgrade, they don't simply throw the old iPads away. Some sell them, but others give them to their parents. And older people will keep technology around for a long time. My mother has my old 1st generation Kindle, which happens to work fine, and probably will keep using it for many years to come. The same will happen to the iPad 1 (and 2, etc.). They won't notice, or care about maps or Siri, but they will notice if Facebook stops working.
By far the worst thing about this is there will never be an improved web browser on the iPad... ever. Because of Apple ridiculous aversion to altenate web browsers (that don't use the Safari engine) no third party will be able to deliver a new web browser.
Years from now the iPad 1 will still be using outdated HTML5 specs, and old version of the web socket protocol, and will never have new wen technologies added to it. Apple has ensured this device remains technologically frozen in time forever.
Years from now the iPad 1 will still be using outdated HTML5 specs, and old version of the web socket protocol, and will never have new wen technologies added to it. Apple has ensured this device remains technologically frozen in time forever.
As an iPhone 3G user previously, this is probably a very good thing. The iOS 4.0 update basically bricked the phone because it just couldn't handle it. I recently found out how easy it was to revert to 3.1.3 and its actually a pleasure to use again (albeit still noticeably slower than my 4S).
If Apple released iOS6 for the iPad 1 you would probably be bagging them out for making the device so slow.
If Apple released iOS6 for the iPad 1 you would probably be bagging them out for making the device so slow.
Yes, Apple does seem to be between a rock and a hard place.
I'd be interested to see an iOS developer's perspective on when they're going to start requiring iOS 6. From a user's perspective, I don't see any features that are going to encourage devs to drop iOS 6 compatibility (eg. ARC; background support).
It's big these types of features and functionality that are going to determine the usefulness and longetivity of iOS 5.
It's big these types of features and functionality that are going to determine the usefulness and longetivity of iOS 5.
For me, my iPad 1 still makes a plenty good Instapaper/Kindle/email/writing/basic web/casual gaming device, and my only major hope is that developers like Marco don't drop iOS 5 support way too quick for their apps.
It's been long enough now that we should all be learning something. If its a "1st Gen" product or doesn't have an "S" on the product name, ignore it..
How did you get this? It's not even on http://www.marco.org/ ?
I'm sure with a bit of engineering effort, the memory footprint of iOS could be drastically reduced. (Hire some game programmers who have worked on console games! A 1st gen iPad has about 3x as much memory as a Wii.) But let's face it, that's not going to improve their bottom line, whereas telling everyone to buy a new iPad every 24 months is.
Still, those 15+ million iPad1 owners aren't going to be all that pleased, especially those who paid through the nose for the 64GB model. (don't feel too bad though - us 16GBers already got shafted anyway when apps suddenly went huge due to retinafication)