Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy(ecuadorembassyuk.org.uk)
ecuadorembassyuk.org.uk
Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
http://www.ecuadorembassyuk.org.uk/announcements/statement-on-julian-assange
8 comments
It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not.
Two women have accused Assange of rape. They have a fundamental right under law to due process. Assange is attempting to deny them this due process by evading the Swedish courts.
Sweden's justice system really isn't corrupt. Assange knows this. His lawyers know this. If Assange thought he wouldn't get a fair trial he would have argued this point in the English courts. Many people have avoided extradition from the UK to various unpleasant places on the basis they wouldn't get a fair trial.
His legal argument was flimsy at best. Assange tried to argue Sweden lacked the authority to issue the arrest warrant in the first place, an argument that was basically laughed out of court. However, the English courts have had a lot of patience for Assange, and have offered him several avenues of appeal on the basis it's an important and high profile case. The Supreme Court even allowed an additional submission after their judgement (this is very unusual).
This is a criminal case involving two parties. Both parties have guaranteed rights. Think about the women involved for a second. They have accused Assange of rape. Perhaps they are lying: Assange is after all innocent until proven guilty. But is it out of the question they are telling the truth? No, it's not.
And that is why Assange should really willingly return to Sweden to face his accusers. He isn't willing, and his arguments about fearing the US really aren't that convincing given the UK is more than happy to extradite people to the states.
Two women have accused Assange of rape. They have a fundamental right under law to due process. Assange is attempting to deny them this due process by evading the Swedish courts.
Sweden's justice system really isn't corrupt. Assange knows this. His lawyers know this. If Assange thought he wouldn't get a fair trial he would have argued this point in the English courts. Many people have avoided extradition from the UK to various unpleasant places on the basis they wouldn't get a fair trial.
His legal argument was flimsy at best. Assange tried to argue Sweden lacked the authority to issue the arrest warrant in the first place, an argument that was basically laughed out of court. However, the English courts have had a lot of patience for Assange, and have offered him several avenues of appeal on the basis it's an important and high profile case. The Supreme Court even allowed an additional submission after their judgement (this is very unusual).
This is a criminal case involving two parties. Both parties have guaranteed rights. Think about the women involved for a second. They have accused Assange of rape. Perhaps they are lying: Assange is after all innocent until proven guilty. But is it out of the question they are telling the truth? No, it's not.
And that is why Assange should really willingly return to Sweden to face his accusers. He isn't willing, and his arguments about fearing the US really aren't that convincing given the UK is more than happy to extradite people to the states.
It depresses me that people are commenting on the issue without actually knowing what the investigation in Sweden is about.
I might be wrong but there is a slight difference between not wearing a condom and rape. I don't care if Sweden is calling consensual sex without condom rape. In Assange's case, he allegedly sabotaged his condom with one woman and allegedly refused to wear a condom with another one but he did not have sex with them against their will. Nobody can argue that because there are no signs of forceful sex.
IMO, this is crazy. There is no way of proving Assange right since only witnesses are two different women claiming similar accusations and the nature of the crime does not allow much evidence. It might sound like a crazy conspiracy theory (I take into account that even Canadian strategist called for Assange's assassination[1]), but somebody might be paying these two women (or threatening them) to lie in the court.
[2] http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=13391
I might be wrong but there is a slight difference between not wearing a condom and rape. I don't care if Sweden is calling consensual sex without condom rape. In Assange's case, he allegedly sabotaged his condom with one woman and allegedly refused to wear a condom with another one but he did not have sex with them against their will. Nobody can argue that because there are no signs of forceful sex.
IMO, this is crazy. There is no way of proving Assange right since only witnesses are two different women claiming similar accusations and the nature of the crime does not allow much evidence. It might sound like a crazy conspiracy theory (I take into account that even Canadian strategist called for Assange's assassination[1]), but somebody might be paying these two women (or threatening them) to lie in the court.
[2] http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=13391
Exactly, people keep on talking about "rape", simply because the accusation is not a crime in any other country. So, I may be wrong, but I tend to think that this is a product of mass media: A- using this term to destroy his reputation, or B- using this term, because it's much more difficult to construct public opinion, trying to explain the real "crime" in other countries.
If consent is given under one set of conditions, and the conditions change, you no longer have consent. It's not a minor thing, period.
Except that Assange said he did exactly what they said he did: http://studentactivism.net/2011/07/12/assange-lawyer-concede... This isn't even a case of he-said-she-said; I don't know where the fanatical skepticism is coming from.
It's not called rape in Sweden either, it is sexual misconduct. It is a crime. Even in countries where it is not a crime, it is still a terrible thing to do.
I can support WikiLeaks and also think he did these things, just like I can admire Hans Reiser's file systems. These acts are the product of thinking your desires are important enough to disregard someone else's rights to control their own body. That does not even seem out of character for Assange.
It's not called rape in Sweden either, it is sexual misconduct. It is a crime. Even in countries where it is not a crime, it is still a terrible thing to do.
I can support WikiLeaks and also think he did these things, just like I can admire Hans Reiser's file systems. These acts are the product of thinking your desires are important enough to disregard someone else's rights to control their own body. That does not even seem out of character for Assange.
Wow, that is a ridiculously suggestive hit piece you're linking to, but even that doesn't justify your claim, since even in that piece neither Assange (who isn't even quoted in it) nor his lawyer says anything of the kind.
It's merely his lawyer quoting the accusations, and the author trying to twist this into an admission of guilt because of, OMG, "the tone". And then there's you piling it on claiming it was Assange who said it, which is a complete fabrication, at least if you take that link as "evidence".
If you want to know where the skepticism is coming from: it comes from these kind of filthy propaganda tactics.
It's merely his lawyer quoting the accusations, and the author trying to twist this into an admission of guilt because of, OMG, "the tone". And then there's you piling it on claiming it was Assange who said it, which is a complete fabrication, at least if you take that link as "evidence".
If you want to know where the skepticism is coming from: it comes from these kind of filthy propaganda tactics.
> Two women have accused Assange of rape. They have a fundamental right under law to due process. Assange is attempting to deny them this due process by evading the Swedish courts.
Where did this come from? Due process is a right of the accused. I've never heard of accusers having due process rights. After all, anyone can accuse anyone of anything. And prosecutors can just roll their eyes at them, if they want.
Just to be clear: I'm not saying that the accusations against JA are worth an eye-roll; I'm only questioning your assertion about due-process rights for accusers.
Also, I'm generally familiar with U.S. law, less so with English law, and very much less so with Swedish.
Where did this come from? Due process is a right of the accused. I've never heard of accusers having due process rights. After all, anyone can accuse anyone of anything. And prosecutors can just roll their eyes at them, if they want.
Just to be clear: I'm not saying that the accusations against JA are worth an eye-roll; I'm only questioning your assertion about due-process rights for accusers.
Also, I'm generally familiar with U.S. law, less so with English law, and very much less so with Swedish.
He is not being charged with rape. He is being charged with intentionally tearing a condom during consensual intercourse. It's pretty offensive to compare this with rape, imo.
Actually, he's not being charged with anything yet. The warrant is simply to require him to come to Sweden for questioning, after which time the prosecutor will decide whether to charge him with any crime. At the moment, he has only been accused of a crime.
Also, it is my understanding that the accusation was brought by the police officers after reading the statements given by the women in question. They had only come to ask if Assange could be required to take an HIV test.
Also, it is my understanding that the accusation was brought by the police officers after reading the statements given by the women in question. They had only come to ask if Assange could be required to take an HIV test.
[deleted]
The questioning relates to exposing a woman to bodily fluids against her will, creating in her the risk of disease or unwanted pregnancy.
She may have agreed to sex given certain conditions, he (allegedly) wilfully broke those conditions. There may or may not have been coercion involved but rape is a good shorthand description and there are serious questions to answer and serious charges to be laid if he cannot provide good answers.
She may have agreed to sex given certain conditions, he (allegedly) wilfully broke those conditions. There may or may not have been coercion involved but rape is a good shorthand description and there are serious questions to answer and serious charges to be laid if he cannot provide good answers.
That is actually quite clearly defined as rape in Swedish law: 'Causing helplessness or a similar state of incapacitation shall be regarded as equivalent to violence.'
http://www.sweden.gov.se/content/1/c6/02/77/77/cb79a8a3.pdf (page 24, sorry for pdf link)
http://www.sweden.gov.se/content/1/c6/02/77/77/cb79a8a3.pdf (page 24, sorry for pdf link)
Is this a crime in the UK?
I'm no lawyer but doesn't something have to be a crime in both countries in order to be eligible for extradition?
I'm no lawyer but doesn't something have to be a crime in both countries in order to be eligible for extradition?
Accusation of a crime is identical to accusation of any other crime. Doesn't matter what the Respective crimes are.
ACCUSATION is not guilt.
ACCUSATION is not guilt.
If I had to fight an accusation of a rape I didn't commit, even if I was vindicated I'd end up destitute and homeless. Any reasonable person would evade these women's due process if they were in Assange's shoes, especially the innocent.
"Sweden's justice system really isn't corrupt."
http://falkvinge.net/2011/09/05/cable-reveals-extent-of-lapd...
Wah wah.
http://falkvinge.net/2011/09/05/cable-reveals-extent-of-lapd...
Wah wah.
That might be a concern, but I doubt it. He was very forthcoming while he was in Sweden. He showed up for questioning and was given permission to leave. He's asked to be questioned remotely, and Sweden refuses to charge him or question him. If you've read anything about the incidents, it's a very weak case for something that shouldn't be a crime to begin with.
None of us know what the US is doing, if anything. We do know, by their own admission, that they began an aggressive investigation into whether or not Assange could be charged. We also know that everyone known associated with Wikileaks had their twitter and other social accounts subpoenaed. Manning's lawyer also indicated that the DoJ discussed the possibility of a plea bargain. As recently as a few weeks ago, US officials said they are waiting to see how the UK case plays out before charging him.
It is more probable than not that after such statements and aggressive investigations, that the US will charge him. It is more probable than not that the reason they have not yet done so, is because it's better for them to let this case finish, as they said.
Assange is not under the impression that he is immune to these inevitable charges and extradition in any of the countries involved. He has resigned to the fact that he is likely to face the US DoJ, and an extradition request, one way or another.
Assange believes that he has a tactical advantage in this case if this does not happen in Sweden. I don't know all of the reasons for this, but this is not surprising, and he has obviously been advised to exhaust this route by his legal counsel. It's safe to assume that this has been their decision, not his.
This is not a conspiracy theory, this is just how court cases work. Even in the US, it is common to fight for the most favorable jurisdiction. The presence of an extradition treaty in both countries does not mean that an extradition request is equally difficult to fight in both countries. This could change depending on laws in a specific country, or even be influenced by public perception or even corruption.
When is the last time someone was held for a year and a half in an international dispute to be questioned about a broken or missing condom incident? That makes the least sense.
Edit: It's worth noting that according to the hacked stratfor emails, the US already has a sealed indictment for him:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/28/1069018/-Leaked-Str...
None of us know what the US is doing, if anything. We do know, by their own admission, that they began an aggressive investigation into whether or not Assange could be charged. We also know that everyone known associated with Wikileaks had their twitter and other social accounts subpoenaed. Manning's lawyer also indicated that the DoJ discussed the possibility of a plea bargain. As recently as a few weeks ago, US officials said they are waiting to see how the UK case plays out before charging him.
It is more probable than not that after such statements and aggressive investigations, that the US will charge him. It is more probable than not that the reason they have not yet done so, is because it's better for them to let this case finish, as they said.
Assange is not under the impression that he is immune to these inevitable charges and extradition in any of the countries involved. He has resigned to the fact that he is likely to face the US DoJ, and an extradition request, one way or another.
Assange believes that he has a tactical advantage in this case if this does not happen in Sweden. I don't know all of the reasons for this, but this is not surprising, and he has obviously been advised to exhaust this route by his legal counsel. It's safe to assume that this has been their decision, not his.
This is not a conspiracy theory, this is just how court cases work. Even in the US, it is common to fight for the most favorable jurisdiction. The presence of an extradition treaty in both countries does not mean that an extradition request is equally difficult to fight in both countries. This could change depending on laws in a specific country, or even be influenced by public perception or even corruption.
When is the last time someone was held for a year and a half in an international dispute to be questioned about a broken or missing condom incident? That makes the least sense.
Edit: It's worth noting that according to the hacked stratfor emails, the US already has a sealed indictment for him:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/28/1069018/-Leaked-Str...
It wouldn't have anything to do with him having admitted all matters of fact, would it? He's basically arguing, "yeah, I broke the law, but it's a stupid law." That always works out great.
Why Ecuador, in particular? I just learned that they've adopted the US dollar as their currency, following devaluation of their old currency in 1999.
Edit: I checked, and Ecuador does have extradition treaties with both the UK and the US. I don't know about Sweden though.
Edit2: according to http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/06/19/assange_seeks... Ecuador has a treaty with the EU as well. But moving to Ecuador puts the decision in Ecuadorian hands instead of UK, so maybe he thinks they will stand up for him better.
Edit: I checked, and Ecuador does have extradition treaties with both the UK and the US. I don't know about Sweden though.
Edit2: according to http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/06/19/assange_seeks... Ecuador has a treaty with the EU as well. But moving to Ecuador puts the decision in Ecuadorian hands instead of UK, so maybe he thinks they will stand up for him better.
I have a feeling he'll be "couch surfing" from embassy to embassy to delay the extradition as long as possible.
You don't think he'll be arrested the minute he sets foot out of the Ecuadorian?
I really don't think that the Metropolitan Police is going to put officers outside the Ecuador Assembly 24/7 just in case Julian Assange leaves. It just doesn't sound like a good use of the officers' time.
The US would be happy to volunteer a few if it's a question of manpower. Britain would probably commit their own just to avoid that kind of situation.
It just doesn't sound like a good use of the officers' time.
They've had the guy detained without charge for 500-odd days. Facing some international criticism and generally looking like hypocrites whenever they want to criticize some other country for having political prisoners. The case has been through their Supreme Court and now there's yet another country involved in this international incident.
When I was in London last year there were helicopters circling continuously in some places. If Assange gives them the slip somehow, it's not going to be because the local police preferred to prioritize something else that day.
It just doesn't sound like a good use of the officers' time.
They've had the guy detained without charge for 500-odd days. Facing some international criticism and generally looking like hypocrites whenever they want to criticize some other country for having political prisoners. The case has been through their Supreme Court and now there's yet another country involved in this international incident.
When I was in London last year there were helicopters circling continuously in some places. If Assange gives them the slip somehow, it's not going to be because the local police preferred to prioritize something else that day.
> The US would be happy to volunteer a few if it's a question of manpower
How many times? This is nothing to do with the US. This is a UK-Sweden extradition of an Australian citizen. If the US DoJ ever gets off its ass and decides to press charges against Julian Assange (they've been sitting on their hands for a couple of years now) it's not gonna do it via some subtle cloak-and-dagger six-country shuffle, it'll just show up with a letter that says "o hai extradition plz".
How many times? This is nothing to do with the US. This is a UK-Sweden extradition of an Australian citizen. If the US DoJ ever gets off its ass and decides to press charges against Julian Assange (they've been sitting on their hands for a couple of years now) it's not gonna do it via some subtle cloak-and-dagger six-country shuffle, it'll just show up with a letter that says "o hai extradition plz".
Unless they prefer to detour his plane through Egypt or Syria first. Yeah, that happens sometimes.
The United States wants Julian Assange considerably more than they wanted Osama bin Laden. There is not the slightest doubt that he will be led out of the embassy in handcuffs if Ecuador doesn't grant asylum.
Looks like marshray was right, actually. http://techtodayshow.com/wikileaks-assange-faces-arrest/
I'm confused by the embassy's statement.
Is an embassy really obliged to shelter any foreign national who might show up on the run from the law for a fairly prosaic [ahem alleged] crime? If I knock over a gas station can I show up at the Tanzanian embassy, say "Hi, I'm a political refugee" and hang around for long enough for them to process this claim?
Is an embassy really obliged to shelter any foreign national who might show up on the run from the law for a fairly prosaic [ahem alleged] crime? If I knock over a gas station can I show up at the Tanzanian embassy, say "Hi, I'm a political refugee" and hang around for long enough for them to process this claim?
I think the circumstances around the case make it anything but prosaic.
Ecuador offered Assange residency in 2010 (but rescinded later due to diplomatic pressure) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11874911
Maybe Assange thought it was worth trying a known "friendly" country first. Also the Ecuador government claimed it had nothing to lose from wikileaks' leaks, so if they really didn't maybe they'll be less likely to try to screw him.
Maybe Assange thought it was worth trying a known "friendly" country first. Also the Ecuador government claimed it had nothing to lose from wikileaks' leaks, so if they really didn't maybe they'll be less likely to try to screw him.
He's wanted in Sweden. Is there an extradition treaty between Ecuador and Sweden?
Yes, but one would assume that this case from Sweden is part of what he's seeking asylum for.
I would imagine that if the Ecuadorian government was to grant asylum that its courts would likely find the extradition request to be political persecution and thus dismiss it for violating his rights under the UNHDR and/or Ecuadorian constitutions.
So, yes while most countries have extradition agreements, some have more respect for the rule of law than others.
He's not trying to avoid extradition so much as seeking a jurisdiction where he believe he'll be tried more fairly with respect to the UNHDR and other inalieable rights endowed by his creator.
I would imagine that if the Ecuadorian government was to grant asylum that its courts would likely find the extradition request to be political persecution and thus dismiss it for violating his rights under the UNHDR and/or Ecuadorian constitutions.
So, yes while most countries have extradition agreements, some have more respect for the rule of law than others.
He's not trying to avoid extradition so much as seeking a jurisdiction where he believe he'll be tried more fairly with respect to the UNHDR and other inalieable rights endowed by his creator.
Assange interviewed the Ecuatorian president for his program at RT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-1-9QXd3Y
The Ecuatorian president is introduced as "populist", yet the interview is non-critical. I thought "populist" was globally pejorative?
Edit: the president himself uses the term in a negative context
The Ecuatorian president is introduced as "populist", yet the interview is non-critical. I thought "populist" was globally pejorative?
Edit: the president himself uses the term in a negative context
"Populist" is generally either neutral or positive in American politics. But most often I hear it used to describe a political strategy, going directly for the masses instead of the upper echelons of power.
I would disagree, and say it's usually negative -- the idea that you win short-term approval for a dubious policy by appealing to the masses who are ignorant of the true consequences, as opposed to appealing to the elites who would presumably understand that the thing's a bad idea.
For example, promising to cut the gasoline tax would be a very populist tactic -- people think "I pay less for gas, that's great!", whereas elites would think, "we'll have less money for infrastructure, leading to decline, or else we'll have to raise taxes elsewhere, making non-drivers subsidize drivers."
And by calling this tactic populist, you would generally be indicating that it appeals to the electorate's ignorance. Most people consider that a bad thing, since it leads to worse outcomes. Hence, populism is a pejorative term. I'm referring to use of the word in the US only.
If you want a positive term, you would describe something as "democratic" instead.
(I'm an American from New York who follows politics a lot.)
For example, promising to cut the gasoline tax would be a very populist tactic -- people think "I pay less for gas, that's great!", whereas elites would think, "we'll have less money for infrastructure, leading to decline, or else we'll have to raise taxes elsewhere, making non-drivers subsidize drivers."
And by calling this tactic populist, you would generally be indicating that it appeals to the electorate's ignorance. Most people consider that a bad thing, since it leads to worse outcomes. Hence, populism is a pejorative term. I'm referring to use of the word in the US only.
If you want a positive term, you would describe something as "democratic" instead.
(I'm an American from New York who follows politics a lot.)
Well, it's true that elites may see populism with some suspicion, and may convey that to each other. But if you turn on Hardball (famous political TV program), many elites and many not-so-elites, depending on your vantage, might be urging Obama, say, to take a more populist tack in his campaign. It's usually neutral, one side of a spectrum people have diverse opinions about.
For example, I don't often feel like angrily shouting at a republican "you populist!" but I do regularly feel like shouting "you morally bankrupt exploiter of the public's ignorance!"
For example, I don't often feel like angrily shouting at a republican "you populist!" but I do regularly feel like shouting "you morally bankrupt exploiter of the public's ignorance!"
Just call him demagogue ;) . Read what I wrote above :P Too long to repeat.
I mostly agree with you in that it's usually negative. But, outside the US, I think it's quite different.
It's not as you say that "as opposed to appealing to the elites who would presumably understand that the thing's a bad idea". The elites tend to consider something as a bad idea, when that somethings affects their interests. A populist policy, usually does not benefit the elites, au contraire, it usually affects them negatively, by moving benefits from them to the masses. (Also, in favor of a political gain, like raising the approval ratings).
I'll give you a practical and real example: here in Argentina, the vast majority of the agricultural production is in hands of about 2000 elite families, and managed by planting pools (they have around 85% of the productive fields, and only 15% is in hands of small farm-owners). One common practice for those elites historically has been to export the production, but making the transaction outside the country, so they wouldn't pay taxes here. And then, leave their gains in foreign banks (Switzerland, Luxembourg, Uruguay). Then, after our crisis in 2001, the government crated a grain exports tax. Around the 2006/2008, soybean prices skyrocketed[1]. The government wanted to modify the tax, so it would have a sliding-scale taxation system, that would make that the more expensive the international price of a product, the less impact would have in the internal price [2]. It had two objectives. The first, was to avoid having exorbitant food prices inside the country, that would make lots of products inaccessible to large segments of the population (mostly meat). And the second one was to allow the government to get more money from the soybean exports (so they could use that money to finance the industrial sector). Even when the agricultural elites would still have the highest benefits of their entire history, they didn't want the government taking part of those. This bill was seen as a populist measure by the agricultural elites, who forced a lockout that lasted more than four months. Mass media and mainly Clarin, the largest media conglomerate of Argentina, who until then was a governments ally, aligned to those elites interests, and started a heavy campaign against the government (marking the beginning of a war that still lasts).
I'm not referring to any specific government here, but the main problem, I think while seeing it from the outside, is that US politics has only two options: Conservative-Right and Liberal-Right. So, when you see a foreign center or center-left government implementing policies like progressive taxation (as in my previous example), mixed economy or the state regulating the economy, your media tends to jump shelling "populist! populist!". So, even when "populism" is usually used as a pejorative term, it shouldn't be. It should be used for a government who tries to fight for their lower classes against the elites. The term that should be used instead, (and the one you are referring, I believe) is demagogy: "a political leader in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes in order to gain power" [3].
[1] http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=soybeans...
[2] http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paro_agropecuario_patronal_en_A... (in spanish, sorry)
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
PS: I also follow politics a lot, my parents where politically active, but they've always let me choose my own believes.
It's not as you say that "as opposed to appealing to the elites who would presumably understand that the thing's a bad idea". The elites tend to consider something as a bad idea, when that somethings affects their interests. A populist policy, usually does not benefit the elites, au contraire, it usually affects them negatively, by moving benefits from them to the masses. (Also, in favor of a political gain, like raising the approval ratings).
I'll give you a practical and real example: here in Argentina, the vast majority of the agricultural production is in hands of about 2000 elite families, and managed by planting pools (they have around 85% of the productive fields, and only 15% is in hands of small farm-owners). One common practice for those elites historically has been to export the production, but making the transaction outside the country, so they wouldn't pay taxes here. And then, leave their gains in foreign banks (Switzerland, Luxembourg, Uruguay). Then, after our crisis in 2001, the government crated a grain exports tax. Around the 2006/2008, soybean prices skyrocketed[1]. The government wanted to modify the tax, so it would have a sliding-scale taxation system, that would make that the more expensive the international price of a product, the less impact would have in the internal price [2]. It had two objectives. The first, was to avoid having exorbitant food prices inside the country, that would make lots of products inaccessible to large segments of the population (mostly meat). And the second one was to allow the government to get more money from the soybean exports (so they could use that money to finance the industrial sector). Even when the agricultural elites would still have the highest benefits of their entire history, they didn't want the government taking part of those. This bill was seen as a populist measure by the agricultural elites, who forced a lockout that lasted more than four months. Mass media and mainly Clarin, the largest media conglomerate of Argentina, who until then was a governments ally, aligned to those elites interests, and started a heavy campaign against the government (marking the beginning of a war that still lasts).
I'm not referring to any specific government here, but the main problem, I think while seeing it from the outside, is that US politics has only two options: Conservative-Right and Liberal-Right. So, when you see a foreign center or center-left government implementing policies like progressive taxation (as in my previous example), mixed economy or the state regulating the economy, your media tends to jump shelling "populist! populist!". So, even when "populism" is usually used as a pejorative term, it shouldn't be. It should be used for a government who tries to fight for their lower classes against the elites. The term that should be used instead, (and the one you are referring, I believe) is demagogy: "a political leader in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes in order to gain power" [3].
[1] http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=soybeans...
[2] http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paro_agropecuario_patronal_en_A... (in spanish, sorry)
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
PS: I also follow politics a lot, my parents where politically active, but they've always let me choose my own believes.
I live in the U.S., and I've never heard "populist" used pejoratively. Where are you from and what does it connote when used pejoratively in your country?
Europe. It usually means when one tries to grab votes at the cost of doing what's "correct" from one's point of view. A stereotypical case would be providing "bread and circus" in the short term while the country is sinking in the mid term.
The following headlines are example use of "populist" with negative connotations (they are not the only ones, I just provide anecdotal evidence of the common use of "populist" as a negative trait).
British English:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17837098
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid... (beware starts parliamentary video automatically)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/23/punitive...
French:
http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/ensemble/2012/02/09/le-populisme...
Spanish:
http://www.abc.es/20120515/opinion/abcp-populista-eres-20120...
The following headlines are example use of "populist" with negative connotations (they are not the only ones, I just provide anecdotal evidence of the common use of "populist" as a negative trait).
British English:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17837098
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid... (beware starts parliamentary video automatically)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/23/punitive...
French:
http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/ensemble/2012/02/09/le-populisme...
Spanish:
http://www.abc.es/20120515/opinion/abcp-populista-eres-20120...
Here in Europe it's used to refer to politicians who pander to the sentiments of the common people, without having a well thought out long-term strategy; e.g., "I'll lower all taxes AND give free healthcare for all."
[deleted]
In Europe, 'populist' is basically the lowbrow version of 'demagogue'.
one example: it is used that way in Germany and applied (mostly) to right wing parties
Actually Populism is just the opposite of Elitism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#Latin_America "a process of controlled inclusion of the "masses" into the political system"
If you want to refer to a populist pejoratively, you call them a demagogue.
How dire is Assange's situation? Is it really possible that the US will try to imprison or even execute him?
Edit: I know were not talking directly about the US here, but the reason I made the jump is that I see Sweden as a lot more likely to allow the US to bully it into giving up Assange
Edit: I know were not talking directly about the US here, but the reason I made the jump is that I see Sweden as a lot more likely to allow the US to bully it into giving up Assange
US imprisonment has very little to do with this. The man faces rape and sexual assault charges, one of the most serious offenses a person can commit.
Though I back his politics 100% and consider him a hero to be remembered, he has every responsibility to face his accusers in a fair trial. Shame on Sweden if they hand him over to the Americans after his trial has concluded.
Though I back his politics 100% and consider him a hero to be remembered, he has every responsibility to face his accusers in a fair trial. Shame on Sweden if they hand him over to the Americans after his trial has concluded.
The reason the US is commonly brought into this is because of misunderstanding of the circumstances and general suspicion.
First off, sexual assault and rape laws are very different in Sweden, and the crimes he has allegedly committed wouldn't be translated as assault or rape in most countries. Though that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do something bad to someone that requires legal recourse; what currently stands are accusations of crime under Sweden's legal code.
More importantly, suspicion arises because the Swedish prosecutor's office initially withdrew the rape charge and warrant for Assange's arrest, and weeks later the charge was brought back. Some time after that, a European arrest warrant was issued. Some are suspicious that this was due to pressure from the US government, as they would like to see Assange in prison, but I'm not going to give my opinion.
Also, Assange has yet to be charged. I'm not sure how this works in Sweden, but it seems in this case that they don't want to charge Assange until after a second round of questioning. That is what the extradition is for.
First off, sexual assault and rape laws are very different in Sweden, and the crimes he has allegedly committed wouldn't be translated as assault or rape in most countries. Though that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do something bad to someone that requires legal recourse; what currently stands are accusations of crime under Sweden's legal code.
More importantly, suspicion arises because the Swedish prosecutor's office initially withdrew the rape charge and warrant for Assange's arrest, and weeks later the charge was brought back. Some time after that, a European arrest warrant was issued. Some are suspicious that this was due to pressure from the US government, as they would like to see Assange in prison, but I'm not going to give my opinion.
Also, Assange has yet to be charged. I'm not sure how this works in Sweden, but it seems in this case that they don't want to charge Assange until after a second round of questioning. That is what the extradition is for.
Furthermore, Assange specifically asked the prosecutors office if we was free to leave the country and they said yes.
Does that mean they're not allowed to decide they require him back, and then go through the "proper channels" to do so, if he refuses voluntarily?
It's not a double jeopardy situation.
It's not a double jeopardy situation.
Really? You back his politics one hundred percent?
"Julian was very reluctant to delete those names, to redact them." David Leigh of the Guardian newspaper tells FRONTLINE of meetings he attended with Assange in the run-up to publication of the war logs. "And we said: 'Julian, we've got to do something about these redactions. We really have got to.' And he said: 'These people were collaborators, informants. They deserve to die.' And a silence fell around the table."
This is David Leigh, an fairly reputable guy who runs investigative reporting for _The Guardian_, not exactly an institution known for cowtowing to the military industrial complex of the US. Do you think he made this up? I don't.
"Julian was very reluctant to delete those names, to redact them." David Leigh of the Guardian newspaper tells FRONTLINE of meetings he attended with Assange in the run-up to publication of the war logs. "And we said: 'Julian, we've got to do something about these redactions. We really have got to.' And he said: 'These people were collaborators, informants. They deserve to die.' And a silence fell around the table."
This is David Leigh, an fairly reputable guy who runs investigative reporting for _The Guardian_, not exactly an institution known for cowtowing to the military industrial complex of the US. Do you think he made this up? I don't.
That quote has been denied by Wikileaks, and apparently also by two Spiegel journalists. [1]
The Guardian and David Leigh in particular do seem to have issues with Assange. Personally I wouldn't automatically believe something to be true just because it was in The Guardian.
[1] "Gives Julian Assange no right to reply libelous statements such as "Afghan informers deserve to die". Nick Davies was not present at the conversation described, and John Goertz and Holger Stark from Der Spiegel can attest that they have no notes or recollection of Julian Assange saying this and would have recalled if he had claimed such a position." http://www.wikileaks.org/Guardian-s-WikiLeaks-Secrets-and.ht...
The Guardian and David Leigh in particular do seem to have issues with Assange. Personally I wouldn't automatically believe something to be true just because it was in The Guardian.
[1] "Gives Julian Assange no right to reply libelous statements such as "Afghan informers deserve to die". Nick Davies was not present at the conversation described, and John Goertz and Holger Stark from Der Spiegel can attest that they have no notes or recollection of Julian Assange saying this and would have recalled if he had claimed such a position." http://www.wikileaks.org/Guardian-s-WikiLeaks-Secrets-and.ht...
Sorry, but I think your perspective is less tenable than mine.
"We did talk with others about David Leigh’s allegation. Several people confirmed that you had initially wanted to publish all the Afghan War Logs without redacting names. We also allowed you to deny the charge. As for content sales, you mentioned in your interview that you had explored financial incentives to improve the reception of the Collateral Murder video. There is more about this in the transcript of your interview that is published on Frontline's website."
That's Marcela Gaviria, a veteran PBS FRONTLINE producer. So that's The Guardian and PBS FRONTLINE --- both extraordinarily reputable newsgathering organizations, and both thoroughly on the liberal side of the spectrum with regards to conflict reporting.
Against that, you have Julian Assange's word and the fact that two Der Spiegel reporters apparently didn't add Assange's statement to their notes.
I tried to track down a denial from John Goertz or Holger Stark; maybe you could point me to one? Leigh's made a bombshell claim. If Der Spiegel reporters are calling into question, it shouldn't be hard to find!
I believe The Guardian and PBS FRONTLINE.
"We did talk with others about David Leigh’s allegation. Several people confirmed that you had initially wanted to publish all the Afghan War Logs without redacting names. We also allowed you to deny the charge. As for content sales, you mentioned in your interview that you had explored financial incentives to improve the reception of the Collateral Murder video. There is more about this in the transcript of your interview that is published on Frontline's website."
That's Marcela Gaviria, a veteran PBS FRONTLINE producer. So that's The Guardian and PBS FRONTLINE --- both extraordinarily reputable newsgathering organizations, and both thoroughly on the liberal side of the spectrum with regards to conflict reporting.
Against that, you have Julian Assange's word and the fact that two Der Spiegel reporters apparently didn't add Assange's statement to their notes.
I tried to track down a denial from John Goertz or Holger Stark; maybe you could point me to one? Leigh's made a bombshell claim. If Der Spiegel reporters are calling into question, it shouldn't be hard to find!
I believe The Guardian and PBS FRONTLINE.
I don't have a perspective here. Marcela Gaviria does not confirm the quote attributed to Assange, as she could not because she was not there.
I did also look for a denial from Goertz or Stark, I couldn't find one either. They do have a book, perhaps there is more detail there.
The "they deserve to die" quote is very damaging, and quite frankly probably the kind of thing a journalist would remember, and perhaps even report. You could conversely say that Goertz or Stark should confirm this if it's true. I couldn't find any evidence of this.
I did also look for a denial from Goertz or Stark, I couldn't find one either. They do have a book, perhaps there is more detail there.
The "they deserve to die" quote is very damaging, and quite frankly probably the kind of thing a journalist would remember, and perhaps even report. You could conversely say that Goertz or Stark should confirm this if it's true. I couldn't find any evidence of this.
Gaviria, by all accounts a reputable journalist, confirmed independently with people other than Leigh that this was in fact Assange's position.
I agree that it's a very damaging quote.
I agree that it's a very damaging quote.
[deleted]
> Though I back his politics 100%, he has every responsibility to face his accusers in a fair trial.
With Sweden's looney toons laws, I strongly disagree.
With Sweden's looney toons laws, I strongly disagree.
This is getting really tired now.
Assange and his legal team have tried every possible angle. Sweden has very different laws to say the US. This is not unexpected. The English courts have determined that Sweden's justice system is fair and balanced. Assange attempted to avoid extradition by arguing Sweden didn't have the right to issue an arrest warrant, not that he was going to get an unfair trial.
This is an act of total desperation. It does nothing to further his innocence. If the US wanted him they would have extradited him from the UK already - Britain has a long history of being more than happy to comply with US extradition requests. It's why Roman Polanski refuses to visit the UK from France.
This is all about accusations of sexual assault and rape which Assange is totally unwilling to face.
Assange and his legal team have tried every possible angle. Sweden has very different laws to say the US. This is not unexpected. The English courts have determined that Sweden's justice system is fair and balanced. Assange attempted to avoid extradition by arguing Sweden didn't have the right to issue an arrest warrant, not that he was going to get an unfair trial.
This is an act of total desperation. It does nothing to further his innocence. If the US wanted him they would have extradited him from the UK already - Britain has a long history of being more than happy to comply with US extradition requests. It's why Roman Polanski refuses to visit the UK from France.
This is all about accusations of sexual assault and rape which Assange is totally unwilling to face.
Assange stayed in Sweden for 5 weeks to be interrogated and only left Sweden after asking permission to do so from the Swedish Prosecutor.
Saying this is all about avoid accusations of sexual assault seems to contradict the actual facts.
Saying this is all about avoid accusations of sexual assault seems to contradict the actual facts.
And now they would like him back to ask some more questions.
Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).
Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).
Assange hasn't denied Sweden the right to question him, for example, over the phone - they have refused to do so. Why must he be on Swedish soil to answer some questions?
Everything about these allegations are clumsy. While we may never know what has transpired, it should be a wake up call to the legal system - you can't just push the regular processes aside and treat a case exceptionally because the suspect is somewhat of a celebrity. The Swedish legal system has also failed these women, if indeed, they are victims.
Everything about these allegations are clumsy. While we may never know what has transpired, it should be a wake up call to the legal system - you can't just push the regular processes aside and treat a case exceptionally because the suspect is somewhat of a celebrity. The Swedish legal system has also failed these women, if indeed, they are victims.
When you know that the due process (which involves making sure he doesn't have the ability to later claim that due process wasn't followed) requires an in-person interview, then throwing up platitudes (that you know won't, can't be accepted, but which make you look entirely reasonable) is duplicitous at best.
Point me to any country in the world where a telephone interview of a suspect or person of interest in a crime is an acceptable totality of due process or investigation.
Point me to any country in the world where a telephone interview of a suspect or person of interest in a crime is an acceptable totality of due process or investigation.
If the prosecution is politically motivated then seeking asylum is appropriate. How do we resolve this question? There are some circumstantial reasons to believe that it is politically motivated. However, we just don't know.
>"We just don't know"
And when faced with insufficient evidence of extraordinary affairs we resort to the status quo: due process in light of a sexual assault charge. The conspiracy theory being invoked is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence that has yet to be forthcoming.
And when faced with insufficient evidence of extraordinary affairs we resort to the status quo: due process in light of a sexual assault charge. The conspiracy theory being invoked is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence that has yet to be forthcoming.
5 weeks is at least 5 times longer than all the time they reasonably needed to ask questions in person. They could still ask questions by phone or email or video.
> Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).
Not if the law which he is accused of breaking is fucked up (to say the least).
Not if the law which he is accused of breaking is fucked up (to say the least).
For an individual to be unwilling to face the law in a country they are not a citizen sounds completely rational to me. Even in the US, with a pretty "fair and balanced" legal system by international standards, innocent people still end up in prison for decades, are executed, etc.
Then again, Julian Assange could very well be safe in a Swedish prison, relatively impervious to a drone strike.
Then again, Julian Assange could very well be safe in a Swedish prison, relatively impervious to a drone strike.
For an individual to be unwilling to face the law in a country they are not a citizen sounds completely rational to me
Rational, maybe. Ethical? Not so much. I don't like the idea of a world where people are free to rape and sexually assault with impunity provided that they are not at home.
Rational, maybe. Ethical? Not so much. I don't like the idea of a world where people are free to rape and sexually assault with impunity provided that they are not at home.
[deleted]
I thought the UK decided to extradite him to Sweden for rape charges?
While Wikileaks is certainly a motivating factor, and I'm sure it's why this story gets as much press as it does, I don't think it's where his legal problems stem from. As far as I know, the US has nothing to do with it.
While Wikileaks is certainly a motivating factor, and I'm sure it's why this story gets as much press as it does, I don't think it's where his legal problems stem from. As far as I know, the US has nothing to do with it.
He has not (yet) been charged. It says this in the article.
Then how in the world has the UK decided to extradite him to Sweden? Don't you have to be charged with something first? I'm a legal idiot, but that doesn't make much sense to me.
EDIT: Nevermind, cousin comment said he is wanted for a second round of questioning in Sweden before they actually charge him. I still don't understand how something as serious as extradition can be used for "questioning", without any charges at all.
Could some random country say they wanted to ask me something and the US would just ship me overseas involuntarily?? That is a terrifying thought.
EDIT: Nevermind, cousin comment said he is wanted for a second round of questioning in Sweden before they actually charge him. I still don't understand how something as serious as extradition can be used for "questioning", without any charges at all.
Could some random country say they wanted to ask me something and the US would just ship me overseas involuntarily?? That is a terrifying thought.
No, the European Arrest Warrant requires an intent to prosecute. The specifics of the prosecution process (including how and when the prosecuted person is charged and what that means exactly) differ in each member state. As programmers would say, it's an "implementation detail".
He is accused of sexual misconduct, some of which does carry possible jail times similar to, say, shoplifting. His continued refusal to stand trial is unlikely to play well to the court, but had he simply faced trial he would probably be out already even if he had been convicted.
wishful thinking is dangerous in politics. you die without knowing how.
I severely doubt it'd go so far as execution, sudden disappearance into a political black hole never to be heard from again? More likely.
then what exactly are they waiting for. He's not likely to get any lower profile until past the time anybody cares (including the government)
What's your proposition? Fly to Ecquador, kick in the embassy doors and abduct a man seeking asylum?
It'd make for one heck of a news day, but I don't think it's that easy.
It'd make for one heck of a news day, but I don't think it's that easy.
The US has a long history of doing things like going to full fledged war over dropping a few bombs or planes on our soil. If I had run Wikileaks, I wouldn't want to be extradited to the US either. However, the statement on the page references the UK and Sweden, not the US. So that may not really be a factor.
The US has nothing to do with this. Sweden is trying to have him extradited from the UK for a sexual assault charge.
Exactly. This is all about Assange not wanting to be questioned about sexual assault.
All this posturing about how the US wants him is a smoke screen - Ecuador has an extradition treaty with the US. Assange may be completely innocent: trying to desperately avoid being questioned about the alleged offences doesn't paint a great picture.
All this posturing about how the US wants him is a smoke screen - Ecuador has an extradition treaty with the US. Assange may be completely innocent: trying to desperately avoid being questioned about the alleged offences doesn't paint a great picture.
He presented himself for questioning before he left Sweden. They told him he was free to leave. My understanding is that also Sweden will sometimes conduct such questioning via remote video link, but they have declined to do that in this case. It's been well over a year, it's not like they couldn't charge him without questioning if they wanted to.
I'm not really sure what's going down here, except it seems the least likely possibility is that Sweden wants to give him a fair trial for the sex allegations.
I'm not really sure what's going down here, except it seems the least likely possibility is that Sweden wants to give him a fair trial for the sex allegations.
Not only is it pretty suspicious that this rape charge should pop up at exactly the time of Assange's ascendency into persona non Guantanamo status, but it gets even fishier when you consider the nature of the accusation. The allegation is that his condom burst during intercourse and he did not stop - in other words it's one of the few crimes for which he cannot possibly have an alibi or a supporting witness or even physical evidence (ie. lack of physical harm).
Anyone who doesn't think the US government is behind this is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Anyone who doesn't think the US government is behind this is living in cloud cuckoo land.
He's not even charged in Sweden. It's fairly obvious the Swedish angle is being used to get him in a country from which he can be extradicted to the US.
Because the UK never extradites anyone to the USA, especially their own citizens...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon
Every time I hear this argument I don't know if to laugh or to cry.
Assange himself pointed out that it is much easier to be extradited to the US from the UK (which extradites to the US almost anyone for pretty much any reason) than from Sweden (that as far as i know very rarely if ever extradites to the US).
If he was really afraid of being extradited to the US, he would want to be in Sweden rather than in the UK.
Assange himself pointed out that it is much easier to be extradited to the US from the UK (which extradites to the US almost anyone for pretty much any reason) than from Sweden (that as far as i know very rarely if ever extradites to the US).
If he was really afraid of being extradited to the US, he would want to be in Sweden rather than in the UK.
But this is more palatable all round.
The UK can send him to Sweden, saying they complied with EU rules. The UK can then relax, and not deal with the wrath of Australia being pissed off - an ex-commonwealth country.
Once he's convicted in Sweden, he can serve the two-months or whatever. Then he can be extradited to the US. Sweden can relax - he's a convicted sex offender now, extradited from the UK. It's harder for him to get legal support in Sweden - he's English-speaking, as are the majority of his supporters.
And the US gets their man. No government wants some renegade out there leaking their secrets.
The UK and US will obviously have discussed his extradition. They've agreed to try the Swedish route first. It doesn't have a political cost for the UK government.
The UK can send him to Sweden, saying they complied with EU rules. The UK can then relax, and not deal with the wrath of Australia being pissed off - an ex-commonwealth country.
Once he's convicted in Sweden, he can serve the two-months or whatever. Then he can be extradited to the US. Sweden can relax - he's a convicted sex offender now, extradited from the UK. It's harder for him to get legal support in Sweden - he's English-speaking, as are the majority of his supporters.
And the US gets their man. No government wants some renegade out there leaking their secrets.
The UK and US will obviously have discussed his extradition. They've agreed to try the Swedish route first. It doesn't have a political cost for the UK government.
He's not charged with sexual assault (not yet, anyway). The warrant is to return him for questioning.
[deleted]
If he were to ever enter US custody, he's not likely to come away from that for a long time. The question is how interested is the US in getting him into custody and how easy is it for them. I imagine it's not terribly difficult but the US also hasn't done much so far.
But if I were him, I'm not sure I'd be willing to take any chances. The consequences are just too great.
But if I were him, I'm not sure I'd be willing to take any chances. The consequences are just too great.
Why not Argentina? He could take advantage of their antipathy toward the UK. Too transparent?
Female Catholic President. Bit of a risk that she doesn't like people who have (admitted in court in the UK) some pretty dubious sexual acts. Acts which the UK court have said would constitute offences in the UK.
It's not the UK that wants him - it's Sweden.
He's also been bailed by the British courts for the purposes of the extradition process. So he may be committing offences in terms of that. Concrete offences that a normal extradition treaty might cover but that the Swedish "we want to question" warrant may not outside the EU.
I understand, but it's the UK who are allowing the extradition, which, he, Assange, clearly disagrees with.
Fool, he shoud come to Brazil, best land to any foreign person escaping law.
Apparently he is inspired by the blind Chinese lawyer seeking asylum in US embassy.
Julian's situation seems very weird to me, given the stories about how secretive he was, how he kept in hiding, etc. At the same time, he was very clearly and publicly the face of wikileaks.
Why did he not simply remain anonymous? All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right?
Being public seems to have been the tactical error. (or was he trying to be anonymous, but got outed at some point and then given that he couldn't be anonymous anymore he decided to embrace it?)
Why did he not simply remain anonymous? All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right?
Being public seems to have been the tactical error. (or was he trying to be anonymous, but got outed at some point and then given that he couldn't be anonymous anymore he decided to embrace it?)
According to the people at the New York Times he worked with, he became transformed by his celebrity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/magazine/30Wikileaks-t.htm... goes into their history. I'm tempted to quote a few paragraphs but it wouldn't be fair since there is a very large picture being painted.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/magazine/30Wikileaks-t.htm... goes into their history. I'm tempted to quote a few paragraphs but it wouldn't be fair since there is a very large picture being painted.
Hahahahahahahaha.
Guess what Bill Keller also wrote?
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/08/opinion/the-i-can-t-believ...
Guess what Bill Keller also wrote?
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/08/opinion/the-i-can-t-believ...
My recollection was that Assange chose to be a figurehead to allow the other wikileaks members to remain anonymous. If that's true then it's been a superbly successful strategy.
At one point people fearing for their life have to make the decision if they want to become protected either by anonymity or by celebrity. While his high profile makes him an easy media target, it reduces the probability of unfortunate "accidents". Plus his public image should give him certain securities - such as raising money or awareness - that he would not have otherwise.
>All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right?
I say no.
Taking a feather from Rock 'n Roll, you need a front-man.
I say no.
Taking a feather from Rock 'n Roll, you need a front-man.
Because fame and ego. Assange is a weird-looking socially awkward epsilon-male, but make him the figurehead of anti-Americanism and apparently a bunch of Swedish leftist chicks want to bang him. At least once. As long as he puts on a condom.
In all seriousness, if you find yourself asking "Why did this man choose fame, glory and groupies over the good of the cause he claims to espouse" then you don't know much about human psychology.
In all seriousness, if you find yourself asking "Why did this man choose fame, glory and groupies over the good of the cause he claims to espouse" then you don't know much about human psychology.
It must be nice to live in a world with such simple people!
The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by the US, but also actively backed up by the US government).
Being extradited to the US would make him a martyr, but being convicted for rape in Sweden would damage his reputation beyond repair. I doubt if the US even wants to deal with the whole circus of getting Assange extradited if there's an easier way to take him out of play.