Discord to Start Showing Ads for Gamers to Boost Revenue(wsj.com)
wsj.com
Discord to Start Showing Ads for Gamers to Boost Revenue
https://www.wsj.com/tech/discord-to-start-showing-ads-for-gamers-to-boost-revenue-bf5848b9
14 comments
> then use bridge/gateways if you want to support these proprietary, privacy sapping platforms.
These bridges do in fact send a lot of data still to the proprietary, privacy sapping platforms, even of those who are not using them, no?
These bridges do in fact send a lot of data still to the proprietary, privacy sapping platforms, even of those who are not using them, no?
But our GMO (growth metric officer) outlined we must interact with the proprietary networks. Without algorithms, what will we trying to ‘hack’?
How many FOSS projects are live streaming video games in the first place? I don't enjoy communities moving to Discord either, but this seems unlikely to affect any software group.
These projects do other non-gaming livestreams for certain events, meetings, etc. Twitch was just a game streaming platform for many years with more incidental gaming / just chatting now than not. Unless there’s a lot of pushback, this will likely just be the tip of the iceberg before allowing more ads in more places in the future.
Maybe, just MAYBE, people will start reconsidering putting their social communities on this awful service and locking their social lives to it.
I'm gonna look into hosting Matrix servers or something.
I expect that soon their policy of banning client modifications (for a web app) will be applied to ban users with adblockers.
I'm gonna look into hosting Matrix servers or something.
I expect that soon their policy of banning client modifications (for a web app) will be applied to ban users with adblockers.
Tell me another platform that is free, has realtime chat, voice and video, has stable service, allows sharing images and other media, with good ownership management...
and is open source.
And yes, we've tried Matrix. IRC doesn't speak to people anymore either. Slack is worse.
and is open source.
And yes, we've tried Matrix. IRC doesn't speak to people anymore either. Slack is worse.
Wanting everything for free is certainly a problem though.
I’m not sure how anything can compete with free and convenient, even things that work really well that take time to set up are hugely inferior because hosting is a cost if nothing else.
If something is free you have a responsibility to be even more diligent to understand what happens when it goes away, is no longer free, or how they plan to extract value from you. Discord is not a charity or government subsidized project.
I’m not sure how anything can compete with free and convenient, even things that work really well that take time to set up are hugely inferior because hosting is a cost if nothing else.
If something is free you have a responsibility to be even more diligent to understand what happens when it goes away, is no longer free, or how they plan to extract value from you. Discord is not a charity or government subsidized project.
There are public servers for Jabber working just fine.
and I run an IRC network from my own pocket.
But when I die there needs to be some altruistic nerd who has the capability and desire to take it over.
But when I die there needs to be some altruistic nerd who has the capability and desire to take it over.
XMPP does far more than IRC. And, as I said, there are public servers with nice clients everywhere, such as Monocles Chat for Android, Dino for GNU/Linux/BSD, or PSI+ for Windows. With video chat and everything.
my point is about offering services free at point of sale for communities. Not necessarily about what technology I use to do that.
If I stop running the community it will die unless a benefactor steps in as I pay it from my pocket. thats the point.
We are coded to expect services for free but it rests on the altruism of individuals or as an investment for companies.
If its an investment: at some point those companies will want something back and likely more and more over time.
If I stop running the community it will die unless a benefactor steps in as I pay it from my pocket. thats the point.
We are coded to expect services for free but it rests on the altruism of individuals or as an investment for companies.
If its an investment: at some point those companies will want something back and likely more and more over time.
This is a given. Is your only point that we should be more skeptical of free stuff or is there something deeper here?
Nothing deeper, skeptical is a fair term but impractical.
Consider instead what the person stands to gain.
In my case I invest in my network because it makes me independent and that is my objective and I am happy to pay for that.
For other people its because they might want to foster open source (freenode for example) and thus your for-profit business or gamer clan isn't the right fit.
Due diligence is the correct term. Not skepticism.
Consider instead what the person stands to gain.
In my case I invest in my network because it makes me independent and that is my objective and I am happy to pay for that.
For other people its because they might want to foster open source (freenode for example) and thus your for-profit business or gamer clan isn't the right fit.
Due diligence is the correct term. Not skepticism.
> Tell me another platform that is free, has realtime chat, voice and video, has stable service, allows sharing images and other media, with good ownership management... and is open source.
Mattermost: https://mattermost.com/
Rocket.Chat: https://www.rocket.chat/
Nextcloud Talk: https://nextcloud.com/talk/
Self hosting and some assembly required. I've run all of them on cheap VPSes to explore a Slack/Discord replacement, neither was mindblowing but all of them seemed okay (Nextcloud's offering was rather barebones, though).
Audio and video support varies because getting those right is challenging, at best you'd just integrate with something like Jitsi, that one's actually pretty good for meetings and such: https://jitsi.org/ and has a cloud version too: https://meet.jit.si/ (yet people still go for Zoom and it's odd UI/UX choices)
When it comes to exchanging information (especially if you want things to be searchable later), I actually rather liked forums back in the day, but I guess nobody will be setting up that many phpBB instances in the current year, though projects like Discourse also seem promising: https://www.discourse.org/
I don't think many people at all will be leaving Discord, due to how entrenched the platform is (network effect): if you want people to be a part of your community, you go where they are, not vice versa. Plus, it doesn't seem that many out there are building gamer-centric platforms since the idea of making an enterprise version in parallel to the free one and earning money off of that is... unlikely?
Mattermost: https://mattermost.com/
Rocket.Chat: https://www.rocket.chat/
Nextcloud Talk: https://nextcloud.com/talk/
Self hosting and some assembly required. I've run all of them on cheap VPSes to explore a Slack/Discord replacement, neither was mindblowing but all of them seemed okay (Nextcloud's offering was rather barebones, though).
Audio and video support varies because getting those right is challenging, at best you'd just integrate with something like Jitsi, that one's actually pretty good for meetings and such: https://jitsi.org/ and has a cloud version too: https://meet.jit.si/ (yet people still go for Zoom and it's odd UI/UX choices)
When it comes to exchanging information (especially if you want things to be searchable later), I actually rather liked forums back in the day, but I guess nobody will be setting up that many phpBB instances in the current year, though projects like Discourse also seem promising: https://www.discourse.org/
I don't think many people at all will be leaving Discord, due to how entrenched the platform is (network effect): if you want people to be a part of your community, you go where they are, not vice versa. Plus, it doesn't seem that many out there are building gamer-centric platforms since the idea of making an enterprise version in parallel to the free one and earning money off of that is... unlikely?
simplex.chat? I heard it improved a lot.
When do you need voice and video with a big community btw? I can see if you have a group of like 8 core devs having their own communication channel, but that is something else then hosting the whole community.
Also, your boring, regular forum is searchable. Discord is a black hole, so if the value of information is more than just personal, Discord-like things should be a no-no, even if one doesn't value privacy issues.
When do you need voice and video with a big community btw? I can see if you have a group of like 8 core devs having their own communication channel, but that is something else then hosting the whole community.
Also, your boring, regular forum is searchable. Discord is a black hole, so if the value of information is more than just personal, Discord-like things should be a no-no, even if one doesn't value privacy issues.
I don't claim to offer a perfect solution, but the first step is admitting the problem. I'll be seeking out alternatives myself.
> with good ownership management
This part is questionable. As the advertising news highlights, a private company operates primarily in the interest of its owners. For a venture-captial backed company, you expect to see the cycle of benevolence in order to grab market share, a model that induces lock-in (social lock-in, in this case), followed by exploitation (advertising and the other predatory FOMO stuff they have with the subscriptions).
The writing was on the wall from the get go, but people fell for it anyway. And now I'm hit by it too because I have to use it to hang with my friends.
It's all so tiresome
> with good ownership management
This part is questionable. As the advertising news highlights, a private company operates primarily in the interest of its owners. For a venture-captial backed company, you expect to see the cycle of benevolence in order to grab market share, a model that induces lock-in (social lock-in, in this case), followed by exploitation (advertising and the other predatory FOMO stuff they have with the subscriptions).
The writing was on the wall from the get go, but people fell for it anyway. And now I'm hit by it too because I have to use it to hang with my friends.
It's all so tiresome
I don't mean ownership of the server. I mean managing it, administrating it, creating granular roles, managing bans, etc.
Jabber?
So far the comments here seem to think they are introducing generic ads in the client, while the ads the article describes is to allow game studios to offer virtual rewards (aka hats) in their games when you livestream your gameplay to other Discord users, and those users (viewers) will then be seeing ads while watching that gameplay. This is somewhat similar to the Twitch Bounty Board for streamers and "drops" for viewers. Discord calls this "Sponsored Quests", and seems very unobtrusive.
I hate ads, I hope they will limit them to a small amount for free users, but remember the issue Discord has been able to solve: we don’t have to waste hours anymore managing Teamspeak servers.
Also it’s much more than a voice-only communication channel, it’s becoming a community, some sort of Facebook group with steroids!
It becoming a Facebook group on steroids is my biggest issue with Discord. So much knowledge, information and documentation is lost in an unindexed proprietary black hole. It‘s a chat that people started to abuse for all kinds of things just because it can be done. Often time normal forums would be more beneficial for everyone involved.
Also I host my own TS server since 2019 and never had to deal with any real problems.
Also I host my own TS server since 2019 and never had to deal with any real problems.
You can backup servers and chats if you care to.
Supposedly it can be a ban worthy offense and they recommend using a second account but I’ve done a few and the second account is still fine.
Normal forums have a lot of spam and moderation issues.
Normal forums have a lot of spam and moderation issues.
If any discord employee sees this, here’s an idea: 10$/month subscription to run a LLM on the chat history daily, grouping and indexing all information, structuring it in articles, etc…
Killer feature, that’d solve a lot of issues with the current experience.
Next one: teach someone born before 1999 how to deactivate channel notifications.
Killer feature, that’d solve a lot of issues with the current experience.
Next one: teach someone born before 1999 how to deactivate channel notifications.
> we don’t have to waste hours anymore managing Teamspeak servers.
I'm on old fogey who still hosts a teamspeak server and I have to say, teamspeak is one of the simplest and easiest things I've ever hosted. In the 6 or so years I've been running it on my VPS I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had to do anything with it, and all of those were simply required updates.
It's seriously rock solid software, never once let me down.
I'm on old fogey who still hosts a teamspeak server and I have to say, teamspeak is one of the simplest and easiest things I've ever hosted. In the 6 or so years I've been running it on my VPS I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had to do anything with it, and all of those were simply required updates.
It's seriously rock solid software, never once let me down.
I've been a discord user since the very beginning - I joined in July 2015. In almost 10 years of using discord, I've never had to do anything, even a required updated. I've paid for Nitro on and off over that time, and am currently paying $3/mo. I think less than a take away coffee per month for a decade of hassle free chat is worth it, and it's less than running even the cheapest of cheap VPS's
> I hate ads, I hope they will limit them to a small amount for free users
Do you hate them enough to pay to not have them?
Do you hate them enough to pay to not have them?
If you do, then that marks you as having cash to throw around, making you a more valuable ad target. So the advertisers raise their bid. It's part of the great cycle of digital content channels.
Aw man, thought this was an april fool's joke with how much they leaned into marketing no ads beforehand.
[deleted]
Does there exist a good, open source Discord alternative yet?
The matrix standard is the closest competitor. Synapse/Dendrite and Element are all probably the most popular and are under various open source licenses.
There was always an alternative with IRC
There was always an alternative with IRC
I don't think any Matrix client comes close to Discord in terms of usability and features, though. We have native calling, but nothing quite like the audio and video channels Discord has. I also don't think Matrix has the kind of rich presence that Discord has. I also don't think any Matrix client implements the game streaming feature quite so well.
Then there are specialised Discord features like forums, image boards, and other fancy pants channel configurations. I've rarely seen them used, but when they are used, I can't think of a way to replicate them without writing a separate Matrix client at the moment. Widgets are good for embedding web pages, but they can't do the specialised content layout that Discord supports these days.
All of these are frontend limitations: Matrix as a protocol supports all of this just fine.
If all you care about is text chat, Cinny seems like an excellent Discord clone. I don't think there's anything like that on mobile, though.
Then there are specialised Discord features like forums, image boards, and other fancy pants channel configurations. I've rarely seen them used, but when they are used, I can't think of a way to replicate them without writing a separate Matrix client at the moment. Widgets are good for embedding web pages, but they can't do the specialised content layout that Discord supports these days.
All of these are frontend limitations: Matrix as a protocol supports all of this just fine.
If all you care about is text chat, Cinny seems like an excellent Discord clone. I don't think there's anything like that on mobile, though.
Element has a beta running for video/audio channels. I don't think other clients have picked it up yet but it should be a relatively small feature past the existing audio and video support.
The beta has been running for a while, half a year at least. I don't think it should be advertised as a feature just yet, not until we have a solid release date.
I'm also not sure if the audio and video channels work like Discord's, I believe these channels are rooms that you would need to be present in; I'm not sure if you can browse other channels and servers while in a call. That said, it's been a while since I last checked.
I'm also not sure if the audio and video channels work like Discord's, I believe these channels are rooms that you would need to be present in; I'm not sure if you can browse other channels and servers while in a call. That said, it's been a while since I last checked.
Are there any laws against enshittification / unsustainable business practices?
Sounds like an overreaction on my part, given the news is about something as small as ads.
At the same time it’s an intentional worsening of the UX to increase profits. It’s possible because the provider has control over user data/community. And it’s likely not the last time this is happening.
Perhaps we need more laws like in EU, so that the users could seamlessly switch between apps and communicate across platforms.
Sounds like an overreaction on my part, given the news is about something as small as ads.
At the same time it’s an intentional worsening of the UX to increase profits. It’s possible because the provider has control over user data/community. And it’s likely not the last time this is happening.
Perhaps we need more laws like in EU, so that the users could seamlessly switch between apps and communicate across platforms.
The EU has data portability obligations and anti gatekeeper laws. I think from a legal point of view, the EU is fine. More enforcement would be welcome, though.
That said: you can't expect a free service to handle your streaming and file uploads without some kind of revenue stream. In my opinion, services giving away free stuff with their billions of investment should be fined, because no real company with a normal profit margin can ever compete. This approach has destroyed every market it's been successful in, from ride sharing to food delivery, yet nobody seems to care when it comes to internet hosting services, probably because the majority of users benefit from the free stuff until there is no serious competition left.
Any law against adding ads to generate revenue once a critical user base has been attained would likely turn into every website requiring a subscription, or every free tier coming with ads from the get-go. I'm not sure if the people who are mad about this will accept either.
That said: you can't expect a free service to handle your streaming and file uploads without some kind of revenue stream. In my opinion, services giving away free stuff with their billions of investment should be fined, because no real company with a normal profit margin can ever compete. This approach has destroyed every market it's been successful in, from ride sharing to food delivery, yet nobody seems to care when it comes to internet hosting services, probably because the majority of users benefit from the free stuff until there is no serious competition left.
Any law against adding ads to generate revenue once a critical user base has been attained would likely turn into every website requiring a subscription, or every free tier coming with ads from the get-go. I'm not sure if the people who are mad about this will accept either.
You’ve really gotta separate is/ought in your world view.
Is it good to make laws according to taste; ought we do so to help create the world we like?
The problem with the ‘world we like’ is it might not make sense economically - and will fail.
It generally better to allow even playing grounds. Our desires for what what ought to happen are often short sighted.
Is it good to make laws according to taste; ought we do so to help create the world we like?
The problem with the ‘world we like’ is it might not make sense economically - and will fail.
It generally better to allow even playing grounds. Our desires for what what ought to happen are often short sighted.
> The problem with the ‘world we like’ is it might not make sense economically - and will fail.
I'm fine with discord failing if the alternative is discord enshittifying itself while keeping user data hostage. Same applies to other platforms or products.
I guess what you're saying is that not just discord would fail but the whole network of advertisers and products that rely on them. I hope this wouldn't be as dramatic, I hope we'd find better ways to reach consumer audiences than creepy ads.
I'm fine with discord failing if the alternative is discord enshittifying itself while keeping user data hostage. Same applies to other platforms or products.
I guess what you're saying is that not just discord would fail but the whole network of advertisers and products that rely on them. I hope this wouldn't be as dramatic, I hope we'd find better ways to reach consumer audiences than creepy ads.
The enshittification progresses... you hate to see it
What would be a better way to pay the bills?
Not having a ton of debt with the sole purpose to capture a critical mass you can later milk due to network effects would be a start.
I'd rather the product not exist in the first place if their business model is unsustainable and requires them to eventually enshitify after they've lured people into using it.
A subsidised product that is unsustainable crowds out a product/project that is perhaps more basic but is sustainable.
Critical mass is important so creating something that captures market share and then turns to shit actively harms the market.
Critical mass is important so creating something that captures market share and then turns to shit actively harms the market.
This addresses the crux of the issue as I see it. We will never have nice things if this cycle is allowed to repeat endlessly. I hope that people will eventually wisen up to these tactics but realistically I think regulation would be required if we wanted to stop it. I see parallels to classic price dumping but I don't know how applicable those laws are in the digital world.
They make a huge amount of money from Nitro.
why do you think they have problems paying bills?
You can try giving me a different reason why they keep incessantly spamveritising Nitro at me when I've never once bought it since I started using Discord.
The problem is, many users already pay. Server boosts, nitro, etc. It feels like threatening free users wont help their problem much. We see it time and time again with the enshittification of other projects that it wont work as a reliable revenue stream.
"Discord “has famously promoted itself as committed to being ad-free, so this step-change could impact user trust and potentially have them looking for alternative platforms,” she said. "
..For now. Eventually they have to figure out how to get paid.
..For now. Eventually they have to figure out how to get paid.
They are getting paid, quite a lot. They have a quite expensive subscription which is quite popular.
My impression is Nitro isn't making them enough money.
Why?
My impression of Nitro is "incessant spamvertisement". I've never bought Nitro, spamming that shit in front of my face every chance it gets is not going to make me buy. The only reason they keep spamming me is because they want (read: need) me to buy.
Why?
My impression of Nitro is "incessant spamvertisement". I've never bought Nitro, spamming that shit in front of my face every chance it gets is not going to make me buy. The only reason they keep spamming me is because they want (read: need) me to buy.
April fools
The home base server should be free or otherwise ethical software the community can own, ideally decentralized (in practice, not theoretically decentralized)… & then use bridge/gateways if you want to support these proprietary, privacy-sapping platforms.