The Fast Track to Start-Up Life(inc.com)
inc.com
The Fast Track to Start-Up Life
http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/the-fast-track-to-start-up-life.html
6 comments
How was he able to start an immigration process without a university degree? Was it because he is from Australia and not, say, Brazil? I'd love to move to the US as well, but without a degree that's basically impossible for me.
Actually, the process is just getting started. I'm looking into a variety of paths, but I'm not going to 'really' start the process till I'm 18. From there I will likely go a J-1 route.
I would love the O-1, but I'm afraid I don't yet have enough press coverage, or letters of recommendation. Working on it.
I would love the O-1, but I'm afraid I don't yet have enough press coverage, or letters of recommendation. Working on it.
88% of Groom's fellow students currently have job offers on the table, with approximately 60% of those headed to start-ups and the remaining 40% mostly employed at consultancies.
edit: formatting.
Because 3 of the 20 were not looking for jobs. Thus it would not have made sense to use them in assessing the success.
I'm Lachy Groom, btw.
I'm Lachy Groom, btw.
I think that's a good enough reason to not include them in the stats, but I find the use of percentages confusing over simply the raw numbers?
20 People. 3 Not Looking, so removed. It mentions your fellow students, so minus 1 more and we're down to sample size of 16. 88% of 16 is 14.08 - 14.08 people is a weird number. Maybe the maths was done including yourself, so that'd be 17... which gives us 14.96 people - so that doesn't make sense either?!?
Surely something like "Out of his fellow students 16 were looking for, and have job offers on the table. 10 of whom are headed to startups, with the other 6 mostly employed at consultancies." My numbers aren't accurate, but I think the sentence is much clearer.
This is an aside though, congrats on being brave enough to go off to another country to do this - never an easy choice, though sometimes here on HN it comes across as not-a-big-deal.
20 People. 3 Not Looking, so removed. It mentions your fellow students, so minus 1 more and we're down to sample size of 16. 88% of 16 is 14.08 - 14.08 people is a weird number. Maybe the maths was done including yourself, so that'd be 17... which gives us 14.96 people - so that doesn't make sense either?!?
Surely something like "Out of his fellow students 16 were looking for, and have job offers on the table. 10 of whom are headed to startups, with the other 6 mostly employed at consultancies." My numbers aren't accurate, but I think the sentence is much clearer.
This is an aside though, congrats on being brave enough to go off to another country to do this - never an easy choice, though sometimes here on HN it comes across as not-a-big-deal.
We provided the author of this story, and all other stories all the numbers. I guess the percentages just are easier to write about!
Thanks for the compliment! It was a crazy ride.
Thanks for the compliment! It was a crazy ride.
Leading with the percentage is an editorial choice that implies that the model might scale; anyone who lands a spot in one of these groups has a 90% chance of getting a decent paying job the day after the program ends.
If you use the absolute headcounts then you waste headline space and you admit the statistically insignificant sample size.
If you use the absolute headcounts then you waste headline space and you admit the statistically insignificant sample size.
Is there anything like this for Django?
I would be very surprised to see it. This school is an outgrowth of the unusual demand for Rails-specific talent amongst VC-oriented startups in SV and NYC. Django has maybe a third [1] of the cachet of presence in that particular niche. Note that this is not intended as a statement of the relative merits of the two frameworks.
[1] I got those numbers by skimming the last six "Who's Hiring?" threads.
[1] I got those numbers by skimming the last six "Who's Hiring?" threads.
What "who's Hiring" threads? Can you link me? (still new to HN)
Good one !
You're an example Lachy
> Already a veteran of several start-ups at the tender age of 17
> Groom attended Dev Bootcamp straight out of high school, skipping college to move to Silicon Valley.
On the other hand, college could be pretty useful if you aren't already selling startups in high school...
> Groom attended Dev Bootcamp straight out of high school, skipping college to move to Silicon Valley.
On the other hand, college could be pretty useful if you aren't already selling startups in high school...
From a career perspective, I believe not going to college was the best choice I could have made. Not even for the startup life, just the regular 9-5. From a personal growth perspective though, I probably missed out on a lot.
It's impossible to have everything in life. I optimized for my career, but those who optimize for other areas of their life are to be respected too. The hard part is figuring out what you want from life straight out of high school, with very little real-world experience.
It's impossible to have everything in life. I optimized for my career, but those who optimize for other areas of their life are to be respected too. The hard part is figuring out what you want from life straight out of high school, with very little real-world experience.
The idea of someone skipping a CS degree to learn some Ruby on Rails and start as a web developer makes me ill. It's classic short-term thinking: web development (in Rails, in particular) is today's hotness, but tomorrow it'll be something else. Since I've started coding, I've watched the waxing and waning of so many technology hype cycles that it makes me dizzy: Hypercard, Visual Basic, C, C++, Java, Win32, Windows MFC, Perl, PHP, Flash, Flex...and now iOS, Android, Javascript, etc. And you know what? This, too, shall pass. For every New Hotness, there's and Old Hotness, and there will be fans of the New Hotness who will be making fun of the cult of the Old Hotness, and how its vision of the future was laughably wrong. This is as predictable as the seasons.
Deep knowledge of general CS concepts -- the things emphasized by a good CS program -- are what allow an engineer to survive the fad-driven cycles that dominate this industry. Because ultimately, there's always a new generation of cheap, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 20-somethings who know the latest fad better than you do. Yet there are surprisingly few people who can create new recommendation algorithms or build massively parallel systems that scale to thousands of nodes without downtime.
Nearly everyone who complains about CS degrees being a waste of time is complaining that college isn't a vocational school. And, it's not -- but that's a feature, not a bug.
Deep knowledge of general CS concepts -- the things emphasized by a good CS program -- are what allow an engineer to survive the fad-driven cycles that dominate this industry. Because ultimately, there's always a new generation of cheap, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 20-somethings who know the latest fad better than you do. Yet there are surprisingly few people who can create new recommendation algorithms or build massively parallel systems that scale to thousands of nodes without downtime.
Nearly everyone who complains about CS degrees being a waste of time is complaining that college isn't a vocational school. And, it's not -- but that's a feature, not a bug.
Deep knowledge of general CS concepts -- the things emphasized by a good CS program -- are what allow an engineer to survive the fad-driven cycles that dominate this industry.
I don't believe so. I never studied CS at college, but have had no trouble learning new languages. I cannot write recommendation algorithms (though I'd wager that I could set up a massively parallel system using existing tools), but not every programmer needs to.
I don't doubt that a CS graduate is a better programmer than I am, but it's disingenuous to suggest that a non-CS grad will be unable to keep up with the industry. It just isn't true.
I don't believe so. I never studied CS at college, but have had no trouble learning new languages. I cannot write recommendation algorithms (though I'd wager that I could set up a massively parallel system using existing tools), but not every programmer needs to.
I don't doubt that a CS graduate is a better programmer than I am, but it's disingenuous to suggest that a non-CS grad will be unable to keep up with the industry. It just isn't true.
So you're arguing that you don't need to know anything more than a steady stream of new languages to survive? That's not a matter of belief -- there's ample evidence to the contrary. The knowledge requirements for industry programmers has been rising steadily for as long as I've been coding.
"Web developer" is today's equivalent of "Visual Basic programmer" in the early 90s. Those kinds of jobs will always exist, but they'll be increasingly marginalized -- just as they have been since the early 90s.
I expected someone to argue that university isn't necessary to learn CS. I didn't expect someone to argue that CS knowledge isn't necessary to have a career in software. Yikes. Whither hacker news?
"Web developer" is today's equivalent of "Visual Basic programmer" in the early 90s. Those kinds of jobs will always exist, but they'll be increasingly marginalized -- just as they have been since the early 90s.
I expected someone to argue that university isn't necessary to learn CS. I didn't expect someone to argue that CS knowledge isn't necessary to have a career in software. Yikes. Whither hacker news?
I can't really take anyone seriously who says a "Web developer" is today's equivalent of "Visual Basic programmer". The problem with visual basic came when people start drag dropping things together, which isn't even what rails is about.
I would also bet heavily that the number of programmming jobs needing low levels of CS knowledge but high levels of complexity management are growing at a great, great rate compared to jobs requiring high levels of CS knowledge.
Marginalized? I think not. That 20 people with a mere 8 weeks programming experience, people who will be relatively useless at programming for another year or so, are in such great demand says everything.
I would also bet heavily that the number of programmming jobs needing low levels of CS knowledge but high levels of complexity management are growing at a great, great rate compared to jobs requiring high levels of CS knowledge.
Marginalized? I think not. That 20 people with a mere 8 weeks programming experience, people who will be relatively useless at programming for another year or so, are in such great demand says everything.
"I can't really take anyone seriously who says a "Web developer" is today's equivalent of "Visual Basic programmer". The problem with visual basic came when people start drag dropping things together, which isn't even what rails is about."
That isn't what Visual Basic was "about", either. But in practice, most professional VB developers made UIs that interacted with enterprise database systems. Otherwise known as: CRUD apps.
Actually, to the extent that the vast majority of today's "web developers" are building web interfaces to a database (which they are), the tools were probably more advanced in 1990 than they are today. Hypercard and VB were far easier platforms for "programmers" with shallow CS knowledge to build enterprise systems.
That isn't what Visual Basic was "about", either. But in practice, most professional VB developers made UIs that interacted with enterprise database systems. Otherwise known as: CRUD apps.
Actually, to the extent that the vast majority of today's "web developers" are building web interfaces to a database (which they are), the tools were probably more advanced in 1990 than they are today. Hypercard and VB were far easier platforms for "programmers" with shallow CS knowledge to build enterprise systems.
The idea of someone skipping a CS degree to learn some Ruby on Rails and start as a web developer makes me ill. It's classic short-term thinking
I'm not sure if you are directing this at me, but I've never been concerned about specific technologies. I spent my "college years" learning how to adapt to anything, which does include, but is not limited to programming. I've also worked professionally in several other industries.
Yet there are surprisingly few people who can create new recommendation algorithms or build massively parallel systems that scale to thousands of nodes without downtime.
There are very few that can do this period, CS degree or not. And even fewer companies willing to pay people to do that kind of research. Re-implementing someone else's algorithm to do recommendations, like, say, a Bayesian recommendation model, is no big challenge though.
Nearly everyone who complains about CS degrees being a waste of time is complaining that college isn't a vocational school.
Again, I'm not sure if this post is even directed at me, but I never made that claim. Formal CS comes with a lot of value. It just would have been a poor decision for my career. If you are willing to sacrifice business to be a better programmer, don't let me discourage you. It takes people who are willing to do that.
I'm not sure if you are directing this at me, but I've never been concerned about specific technologies. I spent my "college years" learning how to adapt to anything, which does include, but is not limited to programming. I've also worked professionally in several other industries.
Yet there are surprisingly few people who can create new recommendation algorithms or build massively parallel systems that scale to thousands of nodes without downtime.
There are very few that can do this period, CS degree or not. And even fewer companies willing to pay people to do that kind of research. Re-implementing someone else's algorithm to do recommendations, like, say, a Bayesian recommendation model, is no big challenge though.
Nearly everyone who complains about CS degrees being a waste of time is complaining that college isn't a vocational school.
Again, I'm not sure if this post is even directed at me, but I never made that claim. Formal CS comes with a lot of value. It just would have been a poor decision for my career. If you are willing to sacrifice business to be a better programmer, don't let me discourage you. It takes people who are willing to do that.
"If you are willing to sacrifice business to be a better programmer, don't let me discourage you. It takes people who are willing to do that."
Hah. In the halls of the academe, we call that a "straw man fallacy". As the founders of Google will tell you, to have deep CS knowledge, it is obviously not necessary to sacrifice business knowledge.
That said, I obviously wasn't directing my comments at the specifics of your situation (since I don't know them), but rather, commenting on the general idea of someone skipping out of college to learn Rails and "get into the industry". My argument is that this is short-sighted. The sort of commodity software development enabled by knowledge of a web framework is the sort that is just as easily farmed out to the lowest bidder. Obviously, in-depth knowledge of a domain is much more valuable than knowing how to make a web app in Rails.
Hah. In the halls of the academe, we call that a "straw man fallacy". As the founders of Google will tell you, to have deep CS knowledge, it is obviously not necessary to sacrifice business knowledge.
That said, I obviously wasn't directing my comments at the specifics of your situation (since I don't know them), but rather, commenting on the general idea of someone skipping out of college to learn Rails and "get into the industry". My argument is that this is short-sighted. The sort of commodity software development enabled by knowledge of a web framework is the sort that is just as easily farmed out to the lowest bidder. Obviously, in-depth knowledge of a domain is much more valuable than knowing how to make a web app in Rails.
As the founders of Google will tell you, to know CS, it is obviously not necessary to "sacrifice business".
Fair, but I was trying to express that in the context of my career. I'm not going to be creating the next Google. If you're only reaching for a 9-5 job, as most outside of the HN crowd are, it is a sacrifice - at least from my point of view.
My argument is that this is short-sighted.
I really don't think it is true. Once you start in Rails, your thirst is going to become strong to learn everything else there is to possibly know about CS. I guess if you actually do stop at Rails, sure, but that indicates a lack of interest in the study, which means the chances of success in a CS program are low to begin with.
With that said, I've been in the industry for about 15 years now and I haven't really seen any change. The languages and frameworks may have, but the stuff most people are being hired for are, in concept, the same as it has always been. That is probably not going to change in the next 15, unless some radical technologies are discovered.
Fair, but I was trying to express that in the context of my career. I'm not going to be creating the next Google. If you're only reaching for a 9-5 job, as most outside of the HN crowd are, it is a sacrifice - at least from my point of view.
My argument is that this is short-sighted.
I really don't think it is true. Once you start in Rails, your thirst is going to become strong to learn everything else there is to possibly know about CS. I guess if you actually do stop at Rails, sure, but that indicates a lack of interest in the study, which means the chances of success in a CS program are low to begin with.
With that said, I've been in the industry for about 15 years now and I haven't really seen any change. The languages and frameworks may have, but the stuff most people are being hired for are, in concept, the same as it has always been. That is probably not going to change in the next 15, unless some radical technologies are discovered.
That personal growth translates to your career as well. I find that the liberal arts education I had forced upon me (I just wanted math/physics dammit!) helps me more than any other part of my education.
Even the philosophy classes I took shape me as a programmer and help me to see and model things from a different and very useful perspective. I really do believe I'd be far less effective as a programmer if I had missed on all of that.
It's funny, in the end I never finished my major classes and I don't think I lost much for never doing it.
Even the philosophy classes I took shape me as a programmer and help me to see and model things from a different and very useful perspective. I really do believe I'd be far less effective as a programmer if I had missed on all of that.
It's funny, in the end I never finished my major classes and I don't think I lost much for never doing it.
That personal growth translates to your career as well.
Well, sure. It's not like my time not in school was void of personal growth. I see where my college-graduated friends are at and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, career wise. The time I was able to maximize during those years has put me at a competitive advantage.
Not to knock what they have done. I'm sure their education comes with many non-career benefits.
Well, sure. It's not like my time not in school was void of personal growth. I see where my college-graduated friends are at and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, career wise. The time I was able to maximize during those years has put me at a competitive advantage.
Not to knock what they have done. I'm sure their education comes with many non-career benefits.
Speaking as one who holds a degree in philosophy, I concur. :)
Many of the effective developers I know of didn't have math/cs backgrounds. Music, Art, Philosophy, Languages - they're all there. Do they understand the ins and outs of all data structures and algorithms? No. Do they have the ability to break down problems and create solutions for those problems? Absolutely.
Many of the effective developers I know of didn't have math/cs backgrounds. Music, Art, Philosophy, Languages - they're all there. Do they understand the ins and outs of all data structures and algorithms? No. Do they have the ability to break down problems and create solutions for those problems? Absolutely.
What would living expenses be like in SF for 10 weeks?
I'd budget like $1000-$1200/ month. I paid $900/month just for rent when I went through the program. And eating at restaurants is an easy $20/day on the low-low end. $20*30 = $600/month. That's already $1500/month. If you're really diligent, you can cut a lot of the food cost by going to 2-3 meetups every week and getting free meals. Or eating the $5 special at Subway every single day every single meal like I did. (I may never eat a Tuna Jalapeno sub again in my life.)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sub/ looks like maybe $700/mo. at the lowest to sublet a room temporarily.