Putting the pieces together: Meet Justin Yu ’25, Tetris world champion(thetech.com)
thetech.com
Putting the pieces together: Meet Justin Yu ’25, Tetris world champion
https://thetech.com/2024/02/08/justin-yu
4 comments
Isn't this called the Gambler's Fallacy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy
Either way, it's interesting he mentions this, since quite a few video games are actively fixing the odds of random events so they do end up working like people might believe under said fallacy. For instance, certain RPGs (like Diablo 3 and World of Warcraft) actually change the odds of getting a rare item if the player fails to get lucky for too long, to the point where eventually they're pretty much guaranteed to get it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy
Either way, it's interesting he mentions this, since quite a few video games are actively fixing the odds of random events so they do end up working like people might believe under said fallacy. For instance, certain RPGs (like Diablo 3 and World of Warcraft) actually change the odds of getting a rare item if the player fails to get lucky for too long, to the point where eventually they're pretty much guaranteed to get it.
NES Tetris has a weighted randomizer where it is less likely to get the same piece twice in a row (if the same piece is going to be served twice, the second is rerolled one time). So it is possible to get the same piece twice in a row but less likely.
Modern uses random shuffles of the piece order (put all the pieces in a bag and draw random pieces from the bag until the bag is empty).
Modern uses random shuffles of the piece order (put all the pieces in a bag and draw random pieces from the bag until the bag is empty).
He mentions that Modern Tetris has this: "And in Modern, they have this special randomizer that’s meant to be really fair".
That's one of the main reasons modern Tetris plays extremely differently than old Tetris. The game generates a "bag" with a single copy of all 7 possible tetrominoes. It then randomly pulls from the bag until it is empty, at which point it generates a new bag. This means you're guaranteed all possible pieces on a regular cycle.
At high-level competitive modern Tetris this allows you to plan out complicated structures like the 4-wide (<https://harddrop.com/wiki/4-Wide_Setups>). Rather than a big empty column on the far-left/right, you leave four empty columns in the middle (or alternatively the side). Once you have the setup, you can rely on planning and foreknowledge of the Tetris bag to guarantee yourself a 20-piece combo of single line clears. Due to the way battling works in modern Tetris (clearing lines sends "waste" to the bottom of the other player's screen with bonuses for combos + other stuff) this can instantly cause the other player to "top out".
Contrast with classic Tetris where just surviving is hard because you don't have any guarantees about pieces.
At high-level competitive modern Tetris this allows you to plan out complicated structures like the 4-wide (<https://harddrop.com/wiki/4-Wide_Setups>). Rather than a big empty column on the far-left/right, you leave four empty columns in the middle (or alternatively the side). Once you have the setup, you can rely on planning and foreknowledge of the Tetris bag to guarantee yourself a 20-piece combo of single line clears. Due to the way battling works in modern Tetris (clearing lines sends "waste" to the bottom of the other player's screen with bonuses for combos + other stuff) this can instantly cause the other player to "top out".
Contrast with classic Tetris where just surviving is hard because you don't have any guarantees about pieces.
This is indeed a valuable lesson. But an interesting counterpoint I have heard is that if the event has occurred as just one of the outcomes the past ten times, you need to revisit your assumption that the two outcomes have equal probability. In many real-life scenarios, the probability that the assumption is incorrect may be greater than the probability of such a sequence of outcomes given the assumption. I think I read about this in Taleb's The Black Swan, though I'm sure it's an older idea than that.
// Do you think you integrate your Tetris skills into your everyday life
My brother in law and I both noticed we are much better at packing the car than our wives.
Specifically we both constantly rotate what we are loading in to take up all available space whereas our wives just put whatever is at hand next and lose a lot of space between items and thus not using the trunk efficiently.
We both attribute this to us playing lots of Tetris. I am gonna get my kids started on it as soon as they are ready.
I also attribute having played lots of Sokoban to ability to move furniture strategically.
I am sure being intrinsically spacial is required but these games definitely helped develop the skills.
My brother in law and I both noticed we are much better at packing the car than our wives.
Specifically we both constantly rotate what we are loading in to take up all available space whereas our wives just put whatever is at hand next and lose a lot of space between items and thus not using the trunk efficiently.
We both attribute this to us playing lots of Tetris. I am gonna get my kids started on it as soon as they are ready.
I also attribute having played lots of Sokoban to ability to move furniture strategically.
I am sure being intrinsically spacial is required but these games definitely helped develop the skills.
There is a well-known male advantage in spatial object rotation. https://books.google.com/books?id=4s5WCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA356#v=on...
Interestingly, I have a similar experience (and not only compared to my spouse), yet I’ve only played Tetris maybe 3 times. People like to quip that I must play a lot of Tetris!
Same for me, people always say I must be great at Tetris, I might be good at Tetris, I don't know...never played. I do know however, I happened to have excellent spatial reasoning skills, don't need a map, strong visual memory, etc etc. I suspect other folks good at packing cars are probably strong with spatial reasoning and memory.
Seems there is some research into this - The neural basis of Tetris gameplay: implicating the role of visuospatial processing: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-021-02081-z
Seems there is some research into this - The neural basis of Tetris gameplay: implicating the role of visuospatial processing: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-021-02081-z
Isn’t that post hoc ergo proper hoc fallacy?
lmao he's wiser than all economists, most academics, and half of HN.
> Justin Yu, Class of 2025
No idea what the 2025 is doing there, or the '25 appended to his name. His Wikipedia entry [1] mentions neither. It does explain how he inspired Blue Scuti to (be the first to) crash the game:
> After the 2023 CTWC, Yu announced his intentions to try to "beat the game" by reaching its "killscreen," a point late in the game when the code glitches, resulting in a game crash due to hardware limitations within the NES.
> Fellow competitive Tetris player and YouTuber Willis Gibson (known online as "Blue Scuti") became inspired by the goal, and would beat Yu to the achievement on December 21, 2023. Yu celebrated the achievement with Gibson, exclaiming "He did it, he did it!" on his livestream.
> On another livestream on January 3, 2024, Yu beat the game, becoming the second person to do so after Gibson and first person to achieve the earliest possible game crash on level 155, two levels quicker than on Gibson's run.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Yu
No idea what the 2025 is doing there, or the '25 appended to his name. His Wikipedia entry [1] mentions neither. It does explain how he inspired Blue Scuti to (be the first to) crash the game:
> After the 2023 CTWC, Yu announced his intentions to try to "beat the game" by reaching its "killscreen," a point late in the game when the code glitches, resulting in a game crash due to hardware limitations within the NES.
> Fellow competitive Tetris player and YouTuber Willis Gibson (known online as "Blue Scuti") became inspired by the goal, and would beat Yu to the achievement on December 21, 2023. Yu celebrated the achievement with Gibson, exclaiming "He did it, he did it!" on his livestream.
> On another livestream on January 3, 2024, Yu beat the game, becoming the second person to do so after Gibson and first person to achieve the earliest possible game crash on level 155, two levels quicker than on Gibson's run.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Yu
The 2025 refers to the year he'll graduate - it's fairly common for US college students to classify themselves this way - and this is a college publication he's being profiled on.
That seems to be a bit premature, no?
No. You are designated class of year X on the day you join (in year X-4). If you end up graduating sooner or later then X it will be adjusted.
Interesting, I didn't know that. There seems to be a built in assumption that you will graduate, which I find a bit odd. But then again, I'm Dutch and we have a proverb here that roughly translates to 'don't celebrate until you've crossed the bridge' so this may be a cultural heritage thing.
In US universities, much more of the selection seems to happen before your first semester than in Europe.
In Germany or Austria, it would also be considered absurd to prematurely declare yourself a “future graduate of (today + 3-6 years)”.
One reason for that is people dropping out: Changing your major is not really a thing so you need to start over or you at least only get partial credit and need to add some semesters if you do. There’s also very little preselection of applicants, so many only realize that they don’t like their major or don’t have the skill set/motivation/grit to still finish it halfway through or later.
And for those that do graduate, there is very little incentive to actually graduate on time: Tuition is free, and many people trade speed for work experience while studying (or just to support themselves at a nicer lifestyle than just a students budget; taking on student loans is not that common either).
In Germany or Austria, it would also be considered absurd to prematurely declare yourself a “future graduate of (today + 3-6 years)”.
One reason for that is people dropping out: Changing your major is not really a thing so you need to start over or you at least only get partial credit and need to add some semesters if you do. There’s also very little preselection of applicants, so many only realize that they don’t like their major or don’t have the skill set/motivation/grit to still finish it halfway through or later.
And for those that do graduate, there is very little incentive to actually graduate on time: Tuition is free, and many people trade speed for work experience while studying (or just to support themselves at a nicer lifestyle than just a students budget; taking on student loans is not that common either).
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I get the idea of “not counting your chickens before they are hatched”
Consider “class of 2025” as shorthand for “cohort targeting 2025 graduation” if you are struggling to accept it :)
Consider “class of 2025” as shorthand for “cohort targeting 2025 graduation” if you are struggling to accept it :)
Yes, I got it. Thanks for the clarification.
> There seems to be a built in assumption that you will graduate, which I find a bit odd.
Are there many Dutch university students who don't graduate?
Are there many Dutch university students who don't graduate?
Absolutely. On an 8 year window 30% doesn't make it to graduation.
Interesting. Is this true consistently across institutions, and across disciplines? E.g., at TU Delft, VU, etc?
In the US at least, the 4-year graduation rate at e.g., MIT and Harvard are well above 90%, quite a bit higher than the national average.
In the US at least, the 4-year graduation rate at e.g., MIT and Harvard are well above 90%, quite a bit higher than the national average.
That was the national average, I suspect there are differences between the institutions themselves as well as between the disciplines. But there definitely is no implied assumption that if you start university that you will graduate.
Ah, fair. The US national average for “completion within 8 years” is not far off, about 60%.
At US “elite” schools there is definitely an expectation of completion in 4 years, though not much stigma if you take longer—and students go through in cohorts with target graduation dates (“class of ‘25” or whatever).
At US “elite” schools there is definitely an expectation of completion in 4 years, though not much stigma if you take longer—and students go through in cohorts with target graduation dates (“class of ‘25” or whatever).
Why would you start if not to graduate?
Why would you get married if it ended in divorce?
A divorce might happen if:
- You decide to divorce your partner based on circumstances you weren't expecting.
- Your partner decides to divorce you.
In the analogy, those would correspond to you leaving the school, or the school expelling you.
But the element of "circumstances you weren't expecting" has been completely lost. There's nothing more predictable than the university experience.
Are 30% of Dutch undergraduates leaving because they stumbled into better opportunities? Are they leaving because they're surprised that "school, but more of it" feels like more school? Are they leaving because their schools find that they perform below what their credentials suggested? (And if it's that last one... thirty percent?)
- You decide to divorce your partner based on circumstances you weren't expecting.
- Your partner decides to divorce you.
In the analogy, those would correspond to you leaving the school, or the school expelling you.
But the element of "circumstances you weren't expecting" has been completely lost. There's nothing more predictable than the university experience.
Are 30% of Dutch undergraduates leaving because they stumbled into better opportunities? Are they leaving because they're surprised that "school, but more of it" feels like more school? Are they leaving because their schools find that they perform below what their credentials suggested? (And if it's that last one... thirty percent?)
Some people might realize that the degree they started is not what they expected, or it is way too difficult for them, so they will either move to another degree, or drop out of university and go to a trade school or similar.
Tetris isn't THAT time consuming!
What is the official Tetris version for training and competing?
Though there are likely other Tetris competitions, this one is about Tetris on the NES.
Is the backquote before the 25 the Tetris block version of a comma that has yet to fall down?
Do you think you integrate your Tetris skills into your everyday life?
Tetris has had a major impact on how I think about randomness. For example, it’s very hard for humans to estimate when things will occur, and a big part of that is recognizing that things are actually independent. Like, if there is an event with two outcomes of equal probability and the event has occurred as just one of the outcomes the past ten times, the probability that the next event will have the opposite outcome is still just 50%, not any greater.