Ask HN: Launched my free app, now what?
10 comments
Start work on your next project, or apply for a better job with this as a portfolio piece. To be honest, it's probably much easier to get a 5-10k raise somewhere else with this extra experience than it will be to get people to pay.
I concur with your advice. BigTweet is a nice little add on that the author should be proud of, but few would pay for. But if you keep rolling out apps, the port and exp will grow. Before you know it you have google jet money!
You need a dedicated audience first before you can begin charging money. You need to just build the app and make this app something the users come to rely on. Twitter is a service designed on simplicity of use and so it isn't exactly prohibitive for them to just not use your app. Charging money might see a few conversions but on the whole, you're not ready for it.
No one will pay you any money for a bookmarklet. Seriously. That's not a business, it's just a hobby at best.
Doesn't it depend on what is behind the bookmarklet? In this case the bookmarklet is launching an application within the web page the user is browsing. Does it matter that the (BigTweet) application is "mobile" rather than at a fixed web site?
Granted, the current functionality is nothing that I would expect anyone to pay for.
As an example, what if the bookmarklet happened to open up a full featured word processor with all the bells and whistles? Not sure that you can say that the product wouldn't be worth anything just because the invocation happened through a bookmarklet ...
Granted, the current functionality is nothing that I would expect anyone to pay for.
As an example, what if the bookmarklet happened to open up a full featured word processor with all the bells and whistles? Not sure that you can say that the product wouldn't be worth anything just because the invocation happened through a bookmarklet ...
No, the medium is intrinsically wrong. Bookmarklets are easy to copy for free. Perhaps if your bookmarklet led to or interfaced with a fully fledged application, people might be willing to pay for the application - but then the bookmarklet is mostly irrelevant, or at the least is not the central appeal, much like del.icio.us's toolbar is omnipresent and yet not presented as the navel of the application.
I maintain - no one will pay for a bookmarklet, so a website that starts with "we provide a bookmarklet that..." is doomed to remain a hobby.
I maintain - no one will pay for a bookmarklet, so a website that starts with "we provide a bookmarklet that..." is doomed to remain a hobby.
Okay - I see your point now.
If BigTweet were to ever develop into a more powerful application, I would need to get away from its image as a bookmarklet.
Thanks!
If BigTweet were to ever develop into a more powerful application, I would need to get away from its image as a bookmarklet.
Thanks!
IMO, hire a graphic/ui designer. No offense, but it's butt ugly.
No offense taken :)
I'm a back-end programmer without much UI experience. I was trying for a simplistic layout. Any specific suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm a back-end programmer without much UI experience. I was trying for a simplistic layout. Any specific suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks!
The page doesn't work very well without Javascript. In my opinion/experience it's better to create a page in a fully usable form without javascript first. Then write a nicer/flashier/*er interface in non-intrusive javascript ( i.e. not inline javscript on elements but in a seperate .js file )
Don't forget to include a friendly reminder "This page has features that require javascript" for the paranoid freakjobs who have javascript off ).
I see that you're pulling in: Prototype - from GoogleAPIs, YUI - from YahooAPIs, Tab.js - from Uservoice ( Who I've never heard of )
As a Tinfoil hat wearing NoScript user that's alot for me click allow on and seems very messy.
Surely all the functionality you use/need/want could be provided by Prototype OR YUI ( or my favourites Mootools or jQuery )
On the design front. Please, please, please get rid of those Image Headings that look like they're from cooltext.com in favour of a Text Header and a Text Link. The Black Border around the whole site probably isn't winning you any friends and the text layout needs some fixing.
For the section about installing the bookmarklet I would: Put a heading on it like "Get Started Now!". Change the tense of "Help me" to "Need help installing?". use a border/background-color/different font to separate it better, although a heading could do this. Align the top of it with the top of something else.
Don't forget to include a friendly reminder "This page has features that require javascript" for the paranoid freakjobs who have javascript off ).
I see that you're pulling in: Prototype - from GoogleAPIs, YUI - from YahooAPIs, Tab.js - from Uservoice ( Who I've never heard of )
As a Tinfoil hat wearing NoScript user that's alot for me click allow on and seems very messy.
Surely all the functionality you use/need/want could be provided by Prototype OR YUI ( or my favourites Mootools or jQuery )
On the design front. Please, please, please get rid of those Image Headings that look like they're from cooltext.com in favour of a Text Header and a Text Link. The Black Border around the whole site probably isn't winning you any friends and the text layout needs some fixing.
For the section about installing the bookmarklet I would: Put a heading on it like "Get Started Now!". Change the tense of "Help me" to "Need help installing?". use a border/background-color/different font to separate it better, although a heading could do this. Align the top of it with the top of something else.
Nice point about the page not working without Javascript - making it friendlier to those with it turned off.
UserVoice is a customer service site. I'm seeing it used more often and I really like the features. The JS for UserVoice on this page is for the Feedback tab on the right.
I use YUI for layout, buttons and tab controls. I don't think Prototype would help here - however perhaps YUI may have features that could cover the Prototype I use.
Ha! The logo was from cooltext.com Perhaps I need a disclaimer on the page saying that this page was designed by a programming hacker with no sense of style :)
You don't like the black border? That was one of the pieces I actually thought looked nice :(
I definitely got the hint though about the page being ugly. I agree. Please try the bookmarklet though. Of the 5 or so months of part-time effort, 99.9% went into the back-end and .1% on the front page. Yeah - guess I need a homepage facelift ...
Why so much time on the back-end? Catalyst had a big learning curve for me, and I was trying to design a flexible platform.
UserVoice is a customer service site. I'm seeing it used more often and I really like the features. The JS for UserVoice on this page is for the Feedback tab on the right.
I use YUI for layout, buttons and tab controls. I don't think Prototype would help here - however perhaps YUI may have features that could cover the Prototype I use.
Ha! The logo was from cooltext.com Perhaps I need a disclaimer on the page saying that this page was designed by a programming hacker with no sense of style :)
You don't like the black border? That was one of the pieces I actually thought looked nice :(
I definitely got the hint though about the page being ugly. I agree. Please try the bookmarklet though. Of the 5 or so months of part-time effort, 99.9% went into the back-end and .1% on the front page. Yeah - guess I need a homepage facelift ...
Why so much time on the back-end? Catalyst had a big learning curve for me, and I was trying to design a flexible platform.
I agree on the ugly factor. A simple, temporary fix might be to center everything (after moving the "just drag.." text below the two subtitles near the logo). Some things are aligned left, some centered, doesn't flow well.
Also, the logo (specifically the font used) is very 90s. Pick something cleaner.
Also, the logo (specifically the font used) is very 90s. Pick something cleaner.
Boo. Don't center everything.
Its a 4 second fix that makes it look better. It's not a recommendation for common practice or a long term solution.
You're telling me this doesn't look better than it currently is: http://i34.tinypic.com/2iaelav.jpg
You're telling me this doesn't look better than it currently is: http://i34.tinypic.com/2iaelav.jpg
I too would like advice on how to find a UI designer to clean up an existing site without paying a fortune?
Designers are not all super expensive. I'd recommend hitting your regional Craigslist and posting on there, ask for resume / portfolios, and negotiate a price.
Tip #1: Pay them, and make it clear you'll pay them. Designers get shit upon so much and get all sorts of 'hey just do this design for me to build your portfolio' - 99% of them are sick of hearing that.
Tip #2: Have a clear vision of what you want. The quick way to suffering and painfully dealing with a designer is to not give them any limits or guidelines. Don't design it for them, but if you don't tell them where you want to go, how can you get pissed at them when they go their way and it isn't what you're looking for? Most of them won't take a job without a clear layout of what it is you want anyways.
Tip #3: Communicate. If you like a design, try to figure out what you like so they can replicate the look in other parts of the site. If you don't like a design, tell them why so they can fix that one part.
Tip #1: Pay them, and make it clear you'll pay them. Designers get shit upon so much and get all sorts of 'hey just do this design for me to build your portfolio' - 99% of them are sick of hearing that.
Tip #2: Have a clear vision of what you want. The quick way to suffering and painfully dealing with a designer is to not give them any limits or guidelines. Don't design it for them, but if you don't tell them where you want to go, how can you get pissed at them when they go their way and it isn't what you're looking for? Most of them won't take a job without a clear layout of what it is you want anyways.
Tip #3: Communicate. If you like a design, try to figure out what you like so they can replicate the look in other parts of the site. If you don't like a design, tell them why so they can fix that one part.
I would also add that speaking on the phone or better yet in person does wonders for working with someone.
Going through Craigslist can enable you to find someone local and meet them at a local coffee shop.
It may not seem like much, but actually meeting someone you are going to work with can make a lot of difference later on.
Going through Craigslist can enable you to find someone local and meet them at a local coffee shop.
It may not seem like much, but actually meeting someone you are going to work with can make a lot of difference later on.
"Here are my goals. How can we achieve them?" is a great way to start a dialogue with a potential designer without 'coaching' them or designing-by-proxy.
Well put.
becoming a competent ui designer, not exceptional, is a task that can be undertaken in a manner similar to learning a language or technology. you won't be able to make a visual masterpiece, but you'll be able to make something that is color coordinated and somewhat visually appealing.
I ll second that. Appearance is more than most think.
improve the application itself, first. before you start charging for anything, it at the very least needs some polish.
as for development vs promotion, most of the work you'll do to promote your app will probably not generate much attention. figure out what will be most effective and go do that. you're on your own right now, so you don't want to waste a lot of time on things that may or may not work out.
as for development vs promotion, most of the work you'll do to promote your app will probably not generate much attention. figure out what will be most effective and go do that. you're on your own right now, so you don't want to waste a lot of time on things that may or may not work out.
As I improve the application, would it be reasonable to mark some features as "pro", but not charge for them yet? The idea is to let users know that these particular features are free for now, but will eventually require a subscription.
I suppose I could include a checkbox to "enable" pro features rather than label them directly.
I suppose I could include a checkbox to "enable" pro features rather than label them directly.
If you are going to charge for the features, you should not make them free, even to begin with. By doing so, you create an initial value in the users' minds of what those features are worth... $0. If anything, charge for the Pro features and gain a good user base (though you might not sell a single Pro account), and then have a one-day special where users can sign up for a month of Pro for free (or something along those lines). This allows them to get a taste of the Pro without eroding the perceived value.
You might also consider making the whole thing free and asking for donations to help you keep the project going and continue improving it and adding features.
As far as building a sustainable business goes, Twitter can't even do that from their own service. It will be difficult at best for you.
You might also consider making the whole thing free and asking for donations to help you keep the project going and continue improving it and adding features.
As far as building a sustainable business goes, Twitter can't even do that from their own service. It will be difficult at best for you.
I'd agree with some folks that there is no business here.
If you envision a business here, I'd write down exactly what you're going to build that people will pay for, then ask 50 Twitter users if they'd pay for it. If 10% say yes (and you believe them). If not, punt.
If you envision a business here, I'd write down exactly what you're going to build that people will pay for, then ask 50 Twitter users if they'd pay for it. If 10% say yes (and you believe them). If not, punt.
Well maybe bit.ly would like to buy it or betaworks can hire/buy you and your tech. It beats their bookmarklet service!
Like others have said, the site looks horrible. My first reaction was to turn and run. After trying it out, I actually found it pretty cool. It's similar to tr.im's bookmarklet.
I'd spend the majority repeating the cycle of adding/refining features and getting feedback from users. Eventually you'll could evolve the project into something new & innovative.
Don't spend too much time on promotion, but do a few things to get the word out. Do you have a business twitter account & blog? Use it to announce new features.
I'd spend the majority repeating the cycle of adding/refining features and getting feedback from users. Eventually you'll could evolve the project into something new & innovative.
Don't spend too much time on promotion, but do a few things to get the word out. Do you have a business twitter account & blog? Use it to announce new features.
I did setup an account @bigtweet but do most of my twittering @scott_carter
I have been using bit.ly and this is cool, but automatically when i hit bigtweet bookmark thing I think it should create the short URL and plop it right into the twitter text box.
Im lazy I want to click bookmarklet toolbar thing..see the short URL in twitter box, type my twitter around it and hit submit.
Overall nice job..something I will use and Im sure others will too.
Im lazy I want to click bookmarklet toolbar thing..see the short URL in twitter box, type my twitter around it and hit submit.
Overall nice job..something I will use and Im sure others will too.
BigTweet can already do this!
The short URL is automatically created. If you check the checkbox "Automatically append short URL of current page" then the text area is automatically populated with this short URL. The same can be done for the web page title.
Give it a try and let me know if there is something else you are expecting or would like to see. You can reply to me @scott_carter
Thanks
The short URL is automatically created. If you check the checkbox "Automatically append short URL of current page" then the text area is automatically populated with this short URL. The same can be done for the web page title.
Give it a try and let me know if there is something else you are expecting or would like to see. You can reply to me @scott_carter
Thanks
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I'm interested in pursuing the freemium model and would like to begin working on some "pro" subscription based features for interfacing to Twitter. Should I let BigTweet grow on its own and work on the advanced features, or spend most of my time enhancing the free version and develop some viral components?
How much time do you spend on developing versus promoting?