Assange 'to run for Australian senate'(aljazeera.com)
aljazeera.com
Assange 'to run for Australian senate'
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/03/201231783350968878.html
8 comments
Being a Senator does not mean that you "run the country", it just means that you make the legislative framework for those that run the country (aka the Government).
As a member of parliament, he would only have immunity in Australia from police investigation and arrest, but not abroad.
However, arresting a member of parliament of another country is something that you would usually try to avoid, especially if that person was democratically elected.
Funny thing if he was elected is that you probably could read all the iternal Senate papers on Wikileaks every day ;)
As a member of parliament, he would only have immunity in Australia from police investigation and arrest, but not abroad.
However, arresting a member of parliament of another country is something that you would usually try to avoid, especially if that person was democratically elected.
Funny thing if he was elected is that you probably could read all the iternal Senate papers on Wikileaks every day ;)
> As a member of parliament, he would only have immunity in Australia from police investigation and arrest
Try telling that to Craig Thomson, MP.
IANAL, but Parliamentary Privilege only buys you some freedom of speech (if you play your cards right), and some protection from civil arrests (i.e. being told to go to court for a civil matter within 5 days of parliament sitting). Note the civil bit - anything the police are investigating will not be civil. "Civil disobedience" can still be criminal, thus not a civil matter.
Leaking Top Secret information will certainly push the envelope on freedom of speech, and nothing will protect him from any prior criminal charges.
Try telling that to Craig Thomson, MP.
IANAL, but Parliamentary Privilege only buys you some freedom of speech (if you play your cards right), and some protection from civil arrests (i.e. being told to go to court for a civil matter within 5 days of parliament sitting). Note the civil bit - anything the police are investigating will not be civil. "Civil disobedience" can still be criminal, thus not a civil matter.
Leaking Top Secret information will certainly push the envelope on freedom of speech, and nothing will protect him from any prior criminal charges.
Though if he'd intentionally leak confidential documents he actually has access to, he'd be criminally liable himself. I don't know about Australia but I think that even a MP immunity couldn't protect from that.
I'm not sure Manuel Noriega would agree with you.
Noriega was held as prisoner of War. I don't think the US is planning a coup of Australia beyond lopsided trade agreements. Besides, Noriega was just a disobedient puppet like Hussein.
He was originally detained as a prisoner of war. He was then flown to Miami where he was tried and convicted on drug trafficking and money laundering charges in a civilian court. Diplomatic immunity certainly didn't help him, and I doubt it would help Assange either.
australian senators don't get diplomatic immunity
Diplomatic community does not extend to foreign legislators. It covers only those who are official diplomats of a foreign country (or those accorded derivative rights, such as immediate family of diplomats). Note that the right applies to the foreign country, not the individuals representing it, so the foreign country may choose (or not) to exercise the immunity.
While many countries (especially Middle-eastern countries) abuse diplomatic immunity with regards to smaller crimes (and especially parking tickets), most countries choose not to exercise the immunity in the case of felonies (except where the death penalty is on the table). Alternatively, the country will exercise the immunity but will then honor an extradition request.
IOW, unless Assange gets himself appointed as a diplomat of Australia, he's done nothing to improve his situation in the US.
While many countries (especially Middle-eastern countries) abuse diplomatic immunity with regards to smaller crimes (and especially parking tickets), most countries choose not to exercise the immunity in the case of felonies (except where the death penalty is on the table). Alternatively, the country will exercise the immunity but will then honor an extradition request.
IOW, unless Assange gets himself appointed as a diplomat of Australia, he's done nothing to improve his situation in the US.
From the wikileak article linked below:
"Having Julian Assange elected to the Senate would give him some advantages, at the very least the embarrassment of the Australian government having to communicate to whatever authority in Sweden - or the USA as the case may be - about 'Senator Assange' or, if ensconced in Parliament, the embarrassment for Attorney General Nicola Roxon if ASIO was found to have tapped Julian Assange's parliamentary phone and internet connection."
Then it goes on about starting a wikileaks party and actually archiving some political change.
"Having Julian Assange elected to the Senate would give him some advantages, at the very least the embarrassment of the Australian government having to communicate to whatever authority in Sweden - or the USA as the case may be - about 'Senator Assange' or, if ensconced in Parliament, the embarrassment for Attorney General Nicola Roxon if ASIO was found to have tapped Julian Assange's parliamentary phone and internet connection."
Then it goes on about starting a wikileaks party and actually archiving some political change.
Which does nothing to improve his situation in the U.S. The U.S. already does not have the jurisdiction to wiretap overseas; it must have local agencies do so (and many of them agree to do so, pursuant to INTERPOL agreements).
The wlcentral article is clearly written by someone who does not understand Parliamentary government (probably a fellow American). Members of parliament are selected by the parties (rather than being elected directly), but the parties must meet a minimum vote threshold to receive any seats.
The wlcentral article is clearly written by someone who does not understand Parliamentary government (probably a fellow American). Members of parliament are selected by the parties (rather than being elected directly), but the parties must meet a minimum vote threshold to receive any seats.
The cabinet (i.e. ministers) are appointed by the party with the most seats, but members of parliament themselves are most certainly elected directly by the local area which they represent.
The senate is a bit different, where you have the option to select either the specific senators you want, or to delegate your votes to a party to allocate.
The senate is a bit different, where you have the option to select either the specific senators you want, or to delegate your votes to a party to allocate.
That's why I opted for 'auspices'. It's far worse to detain a head of state or member of a parliament than a designated representative.
While Assange will never be part of the government, it puts considerable pressure on the Australian government to do so if he is elected. Letting the opposition languish in prison is a major faux pas if you claim to be democratic.
While Assange will never be part of the government, it puts considerable pressure on the Australian government to do so if he is elected. Letting the opposition languish in prison is a major faux pas if you claim to be democratic.
No, the opposite, it's worse to detain a diplomat. International law (to whatever extent it exists) cares very little for one's standing as a politician, but a great deal about one's standing as a diplomat.
Note also: you have to be accepted by your host country to be immune from their laws. Diplomats are not a class of people above the law. The US isn't compelled to recognize immunity for anyone until it (for instance) admits them on their diplomatic passport.
It's hard to imagine any circumstance in which diplomatic immunity in the US could come to play for Julian Assange, no matter how wacky Australian politics ever get.
Note also: you have to be accepted by your host country to be immune from their laws. Diplomats are not a class of people above the law. The US isn't compelled to recognize immunity for anyone until it (for instance) admits them on their diplomatic passport.
It's hard to imagine any circumstance in which diplomatic immunity in the US could come to play for Julian Assange, no matter how wacky Australian politics ever get.
you know how much the US embassy owes Boris Johnson in C Charge and Parking tickets - its millions of pounds.
Well beyond anything. The US can't violate any countries diplomatic immunity otherwise giving US officials diplomatic immunity essentially becomes optional to every other country.
I'm quite certain the US wants to keep its diplomatic immunity when dealing with North Korea, Iran, etc. I'm pretty sure they don't want any country having the option to arrest every diplomat and visiting state official at will.
It's a very dangerous precedent to set. I'm sure China has a list of diplomats, or staff under diplomatic immunity that they would be willing to put on trial for espionage.
I'm quite certain the US wants to keep its diplomatic immunity when dealing with North Korea, Iran, etc. I'm pretty sure they don't want any country having the option to arrest every diplomat and visiting state official at will.
It's a very dangerous precedent to set. I'm sure China has a list of diplomats, or staff under diplomatic immunity that they would be willing to put on trial for espionage.
One of the advantages of being a member of parliament or a senator is that you have Parliamentary Privilege for anything you say in the house or senate. Perhaps if Assange got in he could leak stuff in the senate without having to pretend to be a journalist. Quite a big advantage if you live in a country with only an implied constitutional freedom of speech limited to political matters vs punishing defamation laws.
If he were to enter politics it might be as effective a way to neuter him as a show trial or assassination. Peter Lalor was one of the rebels at Australia's only real civil insurrection/revolution, the Eureka Stockade, but when he got into parliament he became an anti-democratic protector of wealth and privilege. Then you have Peter Garrett of Midnight Oil "US forces give the nod, its a setback for your country" fame who is a Labor minister and not at all outspoken these days.
If he were to enter politics it might be as effective a way to neuter him as a show trial or assassination. Peter Lalor was one of the rebels at Australia's only real civil insurrection/revolution, the Eureka Stockade, but when he got into parliament he became an anti-democratic protector of wealth and privilege. Then you have Peter Garrett of Midnight Oil "US forces give the nod, its a setback for your country" fame who is a Labor minister and not at all outspoken these days.
I wonder what the US will spend to defeat him.....
I bet the CIA is working out funding ideas right now.....
This being said, I wish him the best of luck. It's quite possible such efforts might backfire if folks trace the money back far enough.
I bet the CIA is working out funding ideas right now.....
This being said, I wish him the best of luck. It's quite possible such efforts might backfire if folks trace the money back far enough.
Funding 'ideas' ? Take $Xmm out of pre-mixed drug-running slush fund, donate to incumbent through multiple nyms, move on to six remaining tasks to do before lunch.
not that I wish to anyone, but seriously a sole fact that Asange is still alive proves to me a huge shift that happened at some point through US government agencies like CIA with the way they deal with outsiders like himself. Back in ole' days this guy would be quickly found hanging on the rope with hands taped behind, and officials classifying it as a "suicide". Who knows, perhaps he is just too darn popular right now for CIA to send someone to shut him down permanently. I recall the politicians bashing him that he endanger many US troops and US officials around the world with his publications, but yet 3 years later you can't hear about a single instant that someone got hurt due to Assange publications. I think down the line this guy made more good than bad; next time US will plot another inappropriate scheme between countries etc, they will think twice that sooner or later secrets can leak. On the other hand, guys like Bradley are heroes to me, especially now when he's going through hell served by US government. Respect!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning
Things have shifted because they've had to. The CIA is in the business of clandestine operations, strongly preferring to support an existing entity and failing that, small operations with extreme amounts of plausible deniability. For one, JA is just the messenger (as you point out, BM is the one who leaked the cables, and that damage has already been done), and JA is/was not even all of WL (although don't tell that to JA..). but really, since he's made it into the public spotlight, direct action is out of the question and JA can only be taken down through an illusion of law and process.
I'd personally like to see, how a hacker runs a government.
I'm unsure as to why you were downvoted for this comment. I think it would be terribly interesting to see the extent to which a hacker mentality was visible and/or effective.
[deleted]
China is currently run by engineers.
[deleted]
First he would need to live in Australia. He doesn't seem able to do that.
This is not true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_44_of_the_Constitution_...
Looks like he is stuck in the UK under his bail conditions. So he is unable.
Living in Australia may be a prerequisite for becoming a candidate for office. The source linked describes some but not all of the means by which someone who is already a candidate may be disqualified from the election or from such office.
Further background information:
2012-01-02 A 'Wikileaks' party and #JA4Senate in the Australian polity: Can Parliament be 'occupied'?
http://wlcentral.org/node/2401
2012-01-02 A 'Wikileaks' party and #JA4Senate in the Australian polity: Can Parliament be 'occupied'?
http://wlcentral.org/node/2401
A criminal record is mandatory...
> Being convicted of a crime punishable under Australian law to 12 months or more in prison can disqualify a person from sitting in the Australian parliament for the duration of the sentence, even if that sentence is suspended.
That seems a bit odd considering Australia's history doesn't it?
That seems a bit odd considering Australia's history doesn't it?
Only if you are totally ignorant of history. My Australian state wasn't settled by convicts just as the whole of the US wasn't settled by one ship full of Puritans. My state had a planned colonisation by free settlers attracted to civil and religious freedom and the promise of owning their own land which probably had more in common with somewhere like New Zealand than the penal colonies to the east.
Not only that, but the colony in Sydney had a civil legal system in place from almost day one, even though there were only marines and convicts about. Infact the very first civil case was bought against the British government by a female convict concerning belongings stolen en-route. She won.
The captain of the first fleet, and governor of the first colony, fought for this against Lord Howe of the Admiralty before the fleet had left England.
The captain of the first fleet, and governor of the first colony, fought for this against Lord Howe of the Admiralty before the fleet had left England.
It's just Americans thinking they're being funny about Australia, which is ironic given their modern-day extremely high levels of incarceration. Even the 'penal colonies' weren't just penal colonies - there were a hell of a lot of free settlers as well. Then the gold rushes hit and that's when things really took off.
Besides, in the same period we were a 'penal colony', the Americans were 'slavers' - so much for not casting the first stone...
Besides, in the same period we were a 'penal colony', the Americans were 'slavers' - so much for not casting the first stone...
You're assuming I'm in the USA.
I didn't write, imply or say at all that every person from day one until now was a prisoner obviously not but I figured the subject would be viewed differently in Australia.
I didn't write, imply or say at all that every person from day one until now was a prisoner obviously not but I figured the subject would be viewed differently in Australia.
I am assuming that you're from the USA, since most comments like that come from Americans, and it's supported by the point you highlighted that comment but didn't deny it.
Besides, I didn't say that all americans were slavers. That's not the point I'm making. Your 'considering Australia's history' comment isn't "viewed differently in Australia", it's just flat-out wrong. It's servicing a bigoted stereotype ("people from X are Y, dontcha know") rather than reflecting history.
In any case, Australia was federated on Jan 1 1901 - that's when the constitution describing this came into play - a full half-century after the end of the penal colony years, in itself a period of immense immigration. Considering this history, why is it odd that people convicted of a lengthy sentence be barred from holding high office?
Besides, I didn't say that all americans were slavers. That's not the point I'm making. Your 'considering Australia's history' comment isn't "viewed differently in Australia", it's just flat-out wrong. It's servicing a bigoted stereotype ("people from X are Y, dontcha know") rather than reflecting history.
In any case, Australia was federated on Jan 1 1901 - that's when the constitution describing this came into play - a full half-century after the end of the penal colony years, in itself a period of immense immigration. Considering this history, why is it odd that people convicted of a lengthy sentence be barred from holding high office?
It's kind of hard to charge someone with espionage when they are running another country. Unless the USA is also planning on snapping up Mikhail Gorbachev for espionage the next time he's in town, I think it's a brilliant play.