Ask HN: Is there a place for an investment banker?
6 comments
My advice for you is the same as my advice for anyone smart and ambitious without terribly relevant experience.
Take an entry-level non-technical job at a startup that's grown large enough to actually have entry-level non-technical positions. Customer support, inside sales, community management, traffic acquisition, etc. You won't be in charge of that function, you'll be reporting to someone and learning.
Work your ass off, learn everything about the business, contribute ideas, look for opportunities for internal advancement and promotion. Startups, even bigger ones, can be pretty chaotic. At the right startup, you can advance in responsibility reasonably quickly if you're good.
Once you've gotten some startup experience under your belt, and hopefully a promotion or two, you can job-hop to a better role or a smaller 'more startuppy' team. After a few jobs and a few years, you'll be where you want to be.
This is pretty much what I did eight years ago when I dropped out of a Ph.D. program in Russian history. It takes time - you've got to pay your dues - but it doesn't take as much time as starting over in a more traditional career.
I'm in NYC - if you are too and want to chat, feel free to send me an email.
Take an entry-level non-technical job at a startup that's grown large enough to actually have entry-level non-technical positions. Customer support, inside sales, community management, traffic acquisition, etc. You won't be in charge of that function, you'll be reporting to someone and learning.
Work your ass off, learn everything about the business, contribute ideas, look for opportunities for internal advancement and promotion. Startups, even bigger ones, can be pretty chaotic. At the right startup, you can advance in responsibility reasonably quickly if you're good.
Once you've gotten some startup experience under your belt, and hopefully a promotion or two, you can job-hop to a better role or a smaller 'more startuppy' team. After a few jobs and a few years, you'll be where you want to be.
This is pretty much what I did eight years ago when I dropped out of a Ph.D. program in Russian history. It takes time - you've got to pay your dues - but it doesn't take as much time as starting over in a more traditional career.
I'm in NYC - if you are too and want to chat, feel free to send me an email.
Hi,
I am in a similar position. Difference is that I have been hacking code for over a year now. I feel comfortable around python, clojure, sql and, in general, talking with people that know about this stuff.
In my experience, your main problem is going to be communication. I remember at the beginning I could not follow discussions about state, scope, memory, etc. Now I start to get it. It's important if you want to be part of this community. I am not saying it's useful, but it's really important, it shows commitment.
Also, you probably have a product idea? During implementation there are so many details, you don't want to miss this. You want to be close to the product as much as possible, or at least be able to grasp the basics.
So, my advise would be take a year and learn coding, web development, databases, memory stuff (if you plan to play with lots of data), eventually functional programming, etc. Take a full year, then ask the same question again on HN stating that you know some programming.
I am in a similar position. Difference is that I have been hacking code for over a year now. I feel comfortable around python, clojure, sql and, in general, talking with people that know about this stuff.
In my experience, your main problem is going to be communication. I remember at the beginning I could not follow discussions about state, scope, memory, etc. Now I start to get it. It's important if you want to be part of this community. I am not saying it's useful, but it's really important, it shows commitment.
Also, you probably have a product idea? During implementation there are so many details, you don't want to miss this. You want to be close to the product as much as possible, or at least be able to grasp the basics.
So, my advise would be take a year and learn coding, web development, databases, memory stuff (if you plan to play with lots of data), eventually functional programming, etc. Take a full year, then ask the same question again on HN stating that you know some programming.
Well, I do know some programming (did some C++ and JavaScript competitions in high school), so I don't think it would be too hard to pick up again. But getting to the point where I can contribute code to a team of people who majored in programming in college would take years I imagine.
Also, you mention database and memory stuff. Can you give me more detail as to what kind of database and memory you're talking about?
Also, you mention database and memory stuff. Can you give me more detail as to what kind of database and memory you're talking about?
I think it all depends what position you want to cover in the team. A junior position should not be impossible to reach. You can get good in languages like Python in a matter of weeks. It may take more for web development although.
Databases: as all web sites are dinamic, it is important to understand a bit about databases.
Memory: people with more experience than me can have a say here. But I really think you should think about this later and only in case you want to play with lots data.
Databases: as all web sites are dinamic, it is important to understand a bit about databases.
Memory: people with more experience than me can have a say here. But I really think you should think about this later and only in case you want to play with lots data.
And it's mighty hard to learn how to program with these hours
Attacking the problem one bite at a time may be a better way to look at it. You don't need to master programming to be valuable. But having an understanding of what goes on in development at any level will make you more valuable. Using your lunch break to do tutorials is a place to start. Learn a language that is used heavily in your field. Start looking at portions of your job that you can automate. Focus on writing solutions for those portions and it will free up time. Some of those solutions may start to look like products that could be marketed in your field. Even if they are not, you have still learned the basics of development and freed more time on your schedule. Both of which are worth the investment to learn.
Attacking the problem one bite at a time may be a better way to look at it. You don't need to master programming to be valuable. But having an understanding of what goes on in development at any level will make you more valuable. Using your lunch break to do tutorials is a place to start. Learn a language that is used heavily in your field. Start looking at portions of your job that you can automate. Focus on writing solutions for those portions and it will free up time. Some of those solutions may start to look like products that could be marketed in your field. Even if they are not, you have still learned the basics of development and freed more time on your schedule. Both of which are worth the investment to learn.
This is a really good idea. I've been looking into visual basic macros for excel. Unfortunately, VB isn't exactly 'hip' or in favor anymore to anyone in the tech field. But I guess it's as start.
While not sexy there are some critical VB programs in existence and there are some companies that will pay top dollar for VB programers, it is kind of like COBOL now, it is not attracting new people, but the systems that are on it are important. I have a buddy that commands the best rates he has ever seen, in his career, maintaining VB apps. There is definitely a market for sunset technologies, it is the other, not talked about high pay market.
There is little to no need for a finance guy at a typical startup. Early stage funding has little to do with real finance, and the books are so simple that they barely need to be done.
So either make stuff or sell stuff. That's about it, really.
So either make stuff or sell stuff. That's about it, really.
Actually programmers often need to listen to somebody with real world experience. Somebody who will direct the product toward real user needs.
You might have ideas of software needed in investment banking, or in other fields, you might see what.
You might have ideas of software needed in investment banking, or in other fields, you might see what.
Use your background and become an investor in startups ?
I'm assuming you have some spare funds unless you've been completely credit crunched.
You'll have an understanding of risk and capital which could prove very valuable for a startup.
I'm assuming you have some spare funds unless you've been completely credit crunched.
You'll have an understanding of risk and capital which could prove very valuable for a startup.
My question is, do you think a traditional investment banker has much to add to a start up company? I think I would understand the finance and fundraising side of things better, but would that be enough value compared to someone who can program and just read a few books on capital raising?
I just feel like it might be impossible to join a start up with no programming or science knowledge. And it's mighty hard to learn how to program with these hours.