‘Polluters must pay’: UN chief calls for windfall tax on fossil fuel companies(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
‘Polluters must pay’: UN chief calls for windfall tax on fossil fuel companies
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/un-secretary-general-tax-fossil-fuel-companies-climate-crisis
9 comments
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asg101(3)
Doesn't China put out more C02 than North America and Western Europe combined?
Yes, they produce more than the US (very roughly double) but their per capita is lower. And the US is still a very heavy producer -second in the world .. In this case, both the US and China need to improve
And USA has to drop it production to be in line per capita with China and maybe even the African countries.
Most of the USA is pretty far south but they'll struggle to generate energy as cheaply and cleanly as African nations using solar and batteries.
Probably just importing stuff from those nations will be required to drop the US carbon intensity further, especially if they don't start catching up with China in renewable rollout. The recent IRA is a step in the right direction but the US doesn't seem to have the political stability required for long term planning, so it could go either way.
Probably just importing stuff from those nations will be required to drop the US carbon intensity further, especially if they don't start catching up with China in renewable rollout. The recent IRA is a step in the right direction but the US doesn't seem to have the political stability required for long term planning, so it could go either way.
That would make sense considering their population is more than those combined, and a mind-boggling amount of manufacturing has been moved there.
I imagine you’ll find plenty of people who _also_ want pressure on China to improve, but the western world can’t simply absolve ourselves of the problem we created either.
I imagine you’ll find plenty of people who _also_ want pressure on China to improve, but the western world can’t simply absolve ourselves of the problem we created either.
> Doesn't China put out more C02 than North America and Western Europe combined?
Different story if you calculate C02 consumption (instead of production) per capita.
People in China are making products for American and Western Europe consumers. Ultimately, most of the responsibility should be in consumers, rather than producers.
Different story if you calculate C02 consumption (instead of production) per capita.
People in China are making products for American and Western Europe consumers. Ultimately, most of the responsibility should be in consumers, rather than producers.
You can tell whatever story you want. They’re not changing anything over there. The factories are open, the coal is burning, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
>and there’s nothing we can do about it.
Stop buying things made in China. Ask your representatives to disallow importing from China.
Stop buying things made in China. Ask your representatives to disallow importing from China.
Stop buying stuff. Stop making software for stuff?
China produces 80% of lithium batteries and uses a lot of coal while doing it. Are they going to levy a proportional tax on import? Or they going to facilitate changes to encourage more domestically produced batteries?
As recent as a year ago German politicians were trying to convince that natural gas(from Russia) is a relatively clean energy. Germany was invested in Nord Stream 2 and looks like wanted to be a gatekeeper of Russian gas to Europe. Now Europe is facing a painful reconciliation with reality, that they will have to either hurt their economy, freeze a little their population in the upcoming winter, which is gonna cost them politically or sleep with the devil.
As recent as a year ago German politicians were trying to convince that natural gas(from Russia) is a relatively clean energy. Germany was invested in Nord Stream 2 and looks like wanted to be a gatekeeper of Russian gas to Europe. Now Europe is facing a painful reconciliation with reality, that they will have to either hurt their economy, freeze a little their population in the upcoming winter, which is gonna cost them politically or sleep with the devil.
> Are they going to levy a proportional tax on import?
Yes. Most nations are moving towards carbon tariffs to punish the nations that don't do their share. Though China already has a carbon tax, so their batteries might become even cheaper relative to American ones as a result. Russia will be hit hard by it if they don't change course soon too.
See: How the US is preparing for the EU carbon tariffs:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-u-s-is-pr...
Yes. Most nations are moving towards carbon tariffs to punish the nations that don't do their share. Though China already has a carbon tax, so their batteries might become even cheaper relative to American ones as a result. Russia will be hit hard by it if they don't change course soon too.
See: How the US is preparing for the EU carbon tariffs:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-u-s-is-pr...
>China produces 80% of lithium batteries and uses a lot of coal while doing it. Are they going to levy a proportional tax on import? Or they going to facilitate changes to encourage more domestically produced batteries?
Most of that production is to US and Europe consumers. If you want to punish China for this, simply not buy any lithium-based products such as laptops, cell phones, electric cars.
Most of that production is to US and Europe consumers. If you want to punish China for this, simply not buy any lithium-based products such as laptops, cell phones, electric cars.
> Most of that production is to US and Europe consumers.
This is such a tiresome argument. The West has mandated that we all buy EVs in the near future, while labour and environmental laws mean that it is basically impossible to manufacture them here. It's also relatively essential to buy laptops, computers, monitors, etc - all of which are not possible to make in the West.
It is 100% hypocritical to say that we are too conscientious to manufacture electronic goods in our own countries, while importing huge numbers of them from countries that we know are doing horrible things to their people and environment.
The only way to level the playing field is to impose an "environmental duty" on imported goods from places with lower environmental standards. Otherwise, all we are doing is transferring manufacture to countries with lower standards while pretending that we're doing something great for the world.
This is such a tiresome argument. The West has mandated that we all buy EVs in the near future, while labour and environmental laws mean that it is basically impossible to manufacture them here. It's also relatively essential to buy laptops, computers, monitors, etc - all of which are not possible to make in the West.
It is 100% hypocritical to say that we are too conscientious to manufacture electronic goods in our own countries, while importing huge numbers of them from countries that we know are doing horrible things to their people and environment.
The only way to level the playing field is to impose an "environmental duty" on imported goods from places with lower environmental standards. Otherwise, all we are doing is transferring manufacture to countries with lower standards while pretending that we're doing something great for the world.
They’ll find another way to burn the coal.
I've heard this call being out out in Europe and I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of free markets. Western countries (especially Europe) need all energy companies to maximize production. Of course supply is inelastic in the short term but we had a year's notice. From my naive perspective, the current situation has uncovered a fundamental insufficiency of renewables in the very near term (i.e. going all in and updating it all just was not going to work).
I have heard some leaders speak who understand the issue of incentives (it isn't rocket science) but I am curious how this was done in the past (e.g. WW2). I recall reading top tax rates being in the 80% range.
I have heard some leaders speak who understand the issue of incentives (it isn't rocket science) but I am curious how this was done in the past (e.g. WW2). I recall reading top tax rates being in the 80% range.
> From my naive perspective, the current situation has uncovered a fundamental insufficiency of renewables
This line is getting very tired. How is 'we got rid of net capacity' a problem with renewables? If I get rid of my 10kW gas furnace and replace it with a 1kW heat pump that consumes 300W, it has nothing to do with an 'insufficiency' of heat pumps when I freeze to death.
This line is getting very tired. How is 'we got rid of net capacity' a problem with renewables? If I get rid of my 10kW gas furnace and replace it with a 1kW heat pump that consumes 300W, it has nothing to do with an 'insufficiency' of heat pumps when I freeze to death.
Nobody is going to do that, because inflation would go brrrr