The Entrepreneur’s Guide to (not getting kicked out of) Coffee Shops(dcfounders.com)
dcfounders.com
The Entrepreneur’s Guide to (not getting kicked out of) Coffee Shops
http://dcfounders.com/entrepreneurs-guide-to-coffee-shops/
68 comments
I agree, but there are a few potential drawbacks.
There are more coffee shops than libraries. Your path to a coffee shop is generally shorter than your path to a library.
This problem gets even worse when you add the dimension of time. Libraries are closed a lot. Philistines keep cutting their funding, and they respond by shortening their hours. Unless your working hours coincide neatly with library opening hours you'll sometimes need an alternative.
Finally, there's the social dimension. It's not easy to start a random conversation in a library, and it's essentially impossible to answer the phone. (Unless you are a big jerk and your local librarians are insufficiently ruthless.) Now, if you're trying to program such an environment is a godsend, but if you're trying to run a business programming is often the least of your problems. You have to do sales and marketing and client management and the occasional round of procurement or insurance shopping or whatnot, any or all of which may require you to talk on the phone occasionally.
That said, whenever I'm near a library during its opening hours I head over there instead of towards the coffee shop. Here in Boston the library situation is good: The public libraries are fairly numerous and popular, and some of the more enlightened universities let civilians into their libraries, which have longer hours and better study spaces.
There are more coffee shops than libraries. Your path to a coffee shop is generally shorter than your path to a library.
This problem gets even worse when you add the dimension of time. Libraries are closed a lot. Philistines keep cutting their funding, and they respond by shortening their hours. Unless your working hours coincide neatly with library opening hours you'll sometimes need an alternative.
Finally, there's the social dimension. It's not easy to start a random conversation in a library, and it's essentially impossible to answer the phone. (Unless you are a big jerk and your local librarians are insufficiently ruthless.) Now, if you're trying to program such an environment is a godsend, but if you're trying to run a business programming is often the least of your problems. You have to do sales and marketing and client management and the occasional round of procurement or insurance shopping or whatnot, any or all of which may require you to talk on the phone occasionally.
That said, whenever I'm near a library during its opening hours I head over there instead of towards the coffee shop. Here in Boston the library situation is good: The public libraries are fairly numerous and popular, and some of the more enlightened universities let civilians into their libraries, which have longer hours and better study spaces.
I always just went down to the lobby to do phone calls; how many kinds of calls can you reasonably do from a coffee shop?
Maybe all the coffee shops I like are just way smaller than the ones you all use.
Mostly: I had great success working from libraries, and I know that many coffee shops do not like people working from them all day.
Maybe all the coffee shops I like are just way smaller than the ones you all use.
Mostly: I had great success working from libraries, and I know that many coffee shops do not like people working from them all day.
> I can't think of many reasons to work out a coffee shop instead of a public library.
Well, the most obvious reason would be for the coffee.
Seriously though, I think this varies by city. In Seattle, it's very much culturally accepted to work from coffee shops; it's practically what they're there for.
Well, the most obvious reason would be for the coffee.
Seriously though, I think this varies by city. In Seattle, it's very much culturally accepted to work from coffee shops; it's practically what they're there for.
The main library near downtown Raleigh just added a nice coffee bar during a recent renovation. Someone on the library board is paying attention.
Unfortunately, not everyone is fortunate enough to have access to a good library. I happen to have a good branch nearby and a beautiful main branch that isn't too far that I also use once a week when my local branch is closed. Oh, that's another issue. Libraries have very limited hours, even worse than a coffee shop. My library opens at 10, closes at 6 or 5 and is closed on Friday.
> The library is quiet, is designed to provide work spaces, far larger, and generally very pleasant to be in.
Not my experience at all.
Not my experience at all.
Me too, my library is fairly small as it's rarely used by my community and if I sat there all day it would be very awkward as i'd probably be one of the only people in there and I doubt anyone usually works from there.
Coffee shops on the other hand are usually fairly quiet in something like a starbucks (really depends on location and time). Of course when it's rush hour this all changes.
Coffee shops on the other hand are usually fairly quiet in something like a starbucks (really depends on location and time). Of course when it's rush hour this all changes.
Not all libraries want you either. In my home town, the main library is so filled with students and high schoolers "hanging out" that honest researchers didn't have any more space. They started a policy that if you don't need the resources of the reading rooms (books, machines, ...), you're not supposed to use them.
My hometown has >1mio population, 3 universities and a lot of students occupying the libraries. Coffee shops can be a comfortable alternative.
My hometown has >1mio population, 3 universities and a lot of students occupying the libraries. Coffee shops can be a comfortable alternative.
Here is 1 reason: more chance of seeing a cute girl :)
Cuter, smarter and nicer girls to be found in the library, is my experience.
Can someone explain to me the fascination with working from coffee shops anyway?
You put up without power/internet guarantees and an expectation to spend money for what? The comfort of working hunched over a laptop at a strange table and the convenience of commuting to work even though you don't have an office you have to go to?
Is it a thing where you have better self control at a computer if you're not at home?
You put up without power/internet guarantees and an expectation to spend money for what? The comfort of working hunched over a laptop at a strange table and the convenience of commuting to work even though you don't have an office you have to go to?
Is it a thing where you have better self control at a computer if you're not at home?
I'm a telecommuter and I work out of coffeeshops quite often. For me, they offer social interaction and a change of scenery that I don't get at home. Going to a coffeeshop will also force me to get to business if there is some work I've been particularly dreading. There's a cozy little bubble which forms when working amongst strangers in a neutral location, which shoots my productivity up.
It is possible to mitigate most annoyances by bringing along extra supplies: power splitters + long power cords for limited access to plugs, your own data card for the unreliable wifi, laptop locks for when using the bathroom, and noise-isolating/canceling headphones for the occasional bad music, and an spare sweatshirt for when the coffeeshop leaves their door open.
Its not for everyone, but it has its merits.
It is possible to mitigate most annoyances by bringing along extra supplies: power splitters + long power cords for limited access to plugs, your own data card for the unreliable wifi, laptop locks for when using the bathroom, and noise-isolating/canceling headphones for the occasional bad music, and an spare sweatshirt for when the coffeeshop leaves their door open.
Its not for everyone, but it has its merits.
Something else to try is the public library. I've had excellent results there (but don't have the coffee). Plus, I don't feel as guilty.
There are, however, books. And magazines.
There are, however, books. And magazines.
Yeah libraries are another good candidate. In my experience, libraries aren't as social, and can be a little antiseptic, but I think this varies widely based upon which library you visit.
Plenty of big-city libraries will allow you to bring coffee in, too.
I feel much guiltier in public libraries than in coffee shops. Very often not a great use of money. Everybody pays; few use.
Coffee shops force you do work and nothing else. The shop's shared WIFI is overloaded so slacking off on the web is unrewarding. Videos are dog slow, social sites have long wait for refresh, the high ping in online games makes other players hate you. You can't walk off easily to watch TV. You can't slack off by going to kitchen to grab some food. You can't have a comfortable phone call because it's loud. You can't even slack off to have a long bathroom break, for fear of someone grabbing your laptop. You don't have interruption from colleagues, meetings, or phone calls as in the office.
The "rent" is unbeatable, $1.50 for couple hours of desk space, janitorial service, power, and WIFI. And you got the constant caffeine boost to keep you going. Just put on the headphones and blast away at the codes.
The "rent" is unbeatable, $1.50 for couple hours of desk space, janitorial service, power, and WIFI. And you got the constant caffeine boost to keep you going. Just put on the headphones and blast away at the codes.
i can't explain the appeal, but i worked out of a coffee shop for 3 months a couple of years ago and it was definitely there for me.
your self control theory might be a part of it although i don't recall doing any less random surfing. and believe me i would notice if some environment helped me tone down my random surfing.
i think just being around people, even (maybe especially) if they have no bearing on my activity, is comforting and helps me focus. at the risk of concocting one of those questionable evolutionary psychology theories, most of our ancestors probably didn't do a lot of productive work in complete isolation?
your self control theory might be a part of it although i don't recall doing any less random surfing. and believe me i would notice if some environment helped me tone down my random surfing.
i think just being around people, even (maybe especially) if they have no bearing on my activity, is comforting and helps me focus. at the risk of concocting one of those questionable evolutionary psychology theories, most of our ancestors probably didn't do a lot of productive work in complete isolation?
I worked from coffee shops for 6 months as a solo founder. Being a solo founder was incredibly lonely, and sitting at home made that worse. Going to coffee shops and being surrounded by other people working on their own gigs was energizing.
Now that I'm working at a 2 person startup, I still work from coffee shops ~2 days a week. It's a great change of scenery from the office. I plug in headphones, get a caffeine buzz going, and can be very productive without being distracted.
The coffee shop matters a lot. I disagree with the author's opinion that national chains are best. Starbucks tends to have terrible WiFi, average coffee, and feels soulless. You have to explore your city to find the right balance of WiFi, ambiance, coffee, and power outlets. I was spoiled living in Seattle - I imagine that search takes a bit more effort somewhere like DC :)
GeekAtSea has an excellent post about Seattle coffee shops: http://www.geekatsea.com/best-coffee-shops-in-Seattle
Now that I'm working at a 2 person startup, I still work from coffee shops ~2 days a week. It's a great change of scenery from the office. I plug in headphones, get a caffeine buzz going, and can be very productive without being distracted.
The coffee shop matters a lot. I disagree with the author's opinion that national chains are best. Starbucks tends to have terrible WiFi, average coffee, and feels soulless. You have to explore your city to find the right balance of WiFi, ambiance, coffee, and power outlets. I was spoiled living in Seattle - I imagine that search takes a bit more effort somewhere like DC :)
GeekAtSea has an excellent post about Seattle coffee shops: http://www.geekatsea.com/best-coffee-shops-in-Seattle
(me == author) and I completely agree. And you're just spoiled because you're from Seattle :-D. Compared to better indy coffee shops, the chains aren't great, but they are consistent (the wireless may not be great, but it doesn't go down). But you definitely want to find a place with soul if you can.
Here's our Top 10 coffee shops list - http://dcfounders.com/top-10-coffee-shops-in-washington-dc/ - we're no seattle, but you work with what you have :-D
It's to avoid the 'horrible' side of working from home, as detailed here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home
I don't work frequently from coffee shops, but I go to one when I need to get work done and the choice is between home or coffee shop.
Why? Two reasons --
(1) being at a coffee shop is uncomfortable in such a way that its a constant reminder that I'm there to do work, not get comfortable, relax, etc.. Plus, it keeps me away from regular toys/distractions I might have at home or my desk at work. I probably don't know anyone at the coffee shop, so it means odds are, no one will bother me in person.
(2) I'm the type of person that seems to focus better when there's stuff going on around me, but nothing is glaringly stealing my focus. When I'm at home, I'll sometimes put on an action movie in the background and turn the sound down to a low level so its difficult to pick anything in particular out. The sound and motion helps me focus, for some reason. (Double edged sword, though -- all it takes is one person for me to focus on for whatever reason instead of my work at the coffee shop to shoot my productivity).
Why? Two reasons --
(1) being at a coffee shop is uncomfortable in such a way that its a constant reminder that I'm there to do work, not get comfortable, relax, etc.. Plus, it keeps me away from regular toys/distractions I might have at home or my desk at work. I probably don't know anyone at the coffee shop, so it means odds are, no one will bother me in person.
(2) I'm the type of person that seems to focus better when there's stuff going on around me, but nothing is glaringly stealing my focus. When I'm at home, I'll sometimes put on an action movie in the background and turn the sound down to a low level so its difficult to pick anything in particular out. The sound and motion helps me focus, for some reason. (Double edged sword, though -- all it takes is one person for me to focus on for whatever reason instead of my work at the coffee shop to shoot my productivity).
I second the other posts. I have a lot more self control at coffee shops. I could come with all manner of reasons why, but honestly, I just don't know why. But I do know the result.
For me it's your last point, better self control when I'm not at home. It's also a state of mind thing, if I'm at home I have trouble getting into the "I'm working, now" state of mind. Getting out of the house, be it coffee shops or other locations, helps with my focus.
Mostly it boils down to getting really good coffee and just a change of scenery. I get restless staying at home all week long. I never work a full day out though; either AM or PM is enough. 3G on my phone gets me through spotty wifi, and staying for only a half-day means I won't run out of battery.
Occasionally I'll use it as a place to meet up with friends in similar work-from-anywhere jobs. In fact, I need to start doing that more often.
Occasionally I'll use it as a place to meet up with friends in similar work-from-anywhere jobs. In fact, I need to start doing that more often.
I went through the same experience when I was doing my startup. The biggest problem I found was going to the washroom. I was always afraid someone would highjack my stuff so every time I went to the washroom, I had to pack everything up and bring it with me. This was pretty annoying. Also, if the coffeeshop is busy, good luck finding a clean toilet to sit on.
Maybe I'm overly trusting, but I just ask someone who has line-of-sight, "excuse me, would you mind watching my stuff for a minute?". I figure that the odds of picking the one person who would steal things is very low, and people see it as a gesture of trust. It's sometimes an opening for a conversation when you return, or at least for returning the favour.
"I was always afraid someone would highjack my stuff so every time I went to the washroom, I had to pack everything up and bring it with me."
If you feel like being social, this is a good excuse for striking up a conversation with someone nearby who seems interesting. Ask if the person can keep an eye on your stuff for a few minutes. Assuming he/she is friendly, after you get back and say thanks the ice will be broken and you can chat if you want to. I suppose it's still a bit riskier than taking your stuff with you, but seems minimal.
If you feel like being social, this is a good excuse for striking up a conversation with someone nearby who seems interesting. Ask if the person can keep an eye on your stuff for a few minutes. Assuming he/she is friendly, after you get back and say thanks the ice will be broken and you can chat if you want to. I suppose it's still a bit riskier than taking your stuff with you, but seems minimal.
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I don't think there is a particular trick to fix that, here's what I do - if the place is in a decent neighborhood and there are other people on laptops around, I'll ask someone to watch my things.
The trick I use is to pick someone that has line of site on my things, so they pay attention even if they don't mean to. And ideally to pick someone with a laptop, and preferably a better laptop than yours, that makes them a tad more trustworthy, because at least they probably won't take off with yours.
If the neighborhood is sketchy or there is no one around, I take it with me.
The trick I use is to pick someone that has line of site on my things, so they pay attention even if they don't mean to. And ideally to pick someone with a laptop, and preferably a better laptop than yours, that makes them a tad more trustworthy, because at least they probably won't take off with yours.
If the neighborhood is sketchy or there is no one around, I take it with me.
I use a hybrid version of the technique recommended by the other responders to your comment: Take the big hardware with me, and ask my neighbor to watch the remainder of my stuff (usually my bag, power adapter, and a couple of sketchbooks). It's just imprudent to leave two grand sitting out on a table, IMO.
As for restroom cleanliness, worrying less about that is one of the many benefits of eliminating caffeine from my diet ;)
As for restroom cleanliness, worrying less about that is one of the many benefits of eliminating caffeine from my diet ;)
I work out of a nearby coffee shop in Ottawa in a very small community/neighbourhood.
it's low traffic, and I'm on first name basis with everybody that works there. it's fantastic, and beats working in a real office.
the wifi is unlimited, there's plenty of power outlets, and occasionally on really long days, I'll have two meals there (which makes up for those crunchtime days where I'm doing nothing but drinking coffee).
and they're open till midnight, and serve beer for ballmer peak days.
the real key is to just work out of a coffee shop 2ish times a week and a homeoffice the rest of the time. you split your costs and you're not always there.
it's low traffic, and I'm on first name basis with everybody that works there. it's fantastic, and beats working in a real office.
the wifi is unlimited, there's plenty of power outlets, and occasionally on really long days, I'll have two meals there (which makes up for those crunchtime days where I'm doing nothing but drinking coffee).
and they're open till midnight, and serve beer for ballmer peak days.
the real key is to just work out of a coffee shop 2ish times a week and a homeoffice the rest of the time. you split your costs and you're not always there.
Good advice, although from my experience (in San Francisco), getting to know the staff is the easiest way to ensure a free -> cheap working environment. Local places with a lot of people means you can get away with 1 - 2 cups of coffee for the day, which will run you $4 - $7 depending on how swank the place is.
Also, buy a couple of $5 power strips and leave them at the places you frequent. Give something back to the community that's supporting you (whether they know it or not).
Also, buy a couple of $5 power strips and leave them at the places you frequent. Give something back to the community that's supporting you (whether they know it or not).
Love the powerstrip idea. Sounds like a movement :-)
More like "The Entrepreneur's Guide to a Blank Page in Chrome"
Works for me in chrome.
I get a flash of content and then a blank white screen. There's a bunch of 403 and 500 errors for content on the page and about a dozen javascript errors when I open up the developer tools. It may be that some Chrome versions are more forgiving then others (16.0.981.0 here).
Sorry, it just takes an extra second to load. Will fix it in a bit. You should still be able to see it if you just wait for a beat.
A minute later and I'm still looking at a white screen.
Hey, if you get a chance, let me know if you still have issues. Did a quick fix last night, so hopefully was enough. (May need to go back later and fix underlying issue.) Thx!
Sorry about that, can't replicate. Maybe you're getting flagged by Cloudflare security? We'll mess with it tonight when the load goes down a bit. Again, sorry about that.
I've found it helps if you try and go places when they are least busy. Coffee shops seem to have different down times depending on location, customer base, etc. My favorite spot is always crowded from sunrise until about 3pm and then totally dead for the rest of the day. Less noise, distraction, and guilt for taking a table when there is nobody in the place.
I also recently discovered the public library as a great place to work. Of course this will vary from city to city, but mine is clean, quiet, good lighting, comfortable work areas, cheap parking, and free wifi. Also, they have a great music collection to borrow from.
I also recently discovered the public library as a great place to work. Of course this will vary from city to city, but mine is clean, quiet, good lighting, comfortable work areas, cheap parking, and free wifi. Also, they have a great music collection to borrow from.
For those who don't like the hustle and bustle of coffee shops, may I suggest university libraries?
They're quiet, generally unattended by the local undergrads, and the wifi is generally very consistently available (even if there is a registration process to make sure your machine fits school security standards). Plenty of power, too.
On the downside, there's no cheap coffee nearby and sometimes it isn't allowed at all. The same may go for parking.
Still, if uninterrupted peace and quiet is what you need for productivity, they may be a solid option.
They're quiet, generally unattended by the local undergrads, and the wifi is generally very consistently available (even if there is a registration process to make sure your machine fits school security standards). Plenty of power, too.
On the downside, there's no cheap coffee nearby and sometimes it isn't allowed at all. The same may go for parking.
Still, if uninterrupted peace and quiet is what you need for productivity, they may be a solid option.
University libraries usually require accounts to use the wireless internet.
Seems like a waste to me, especially since he's in the same city (DC). I am down at Affinity Lab (coworking space) and it only costs $325/month compared to his 1000$/month on coffee. Plus the internet works, you get to know a bunch of people, has more facilities than a coffee shop and it's definitely comfortable enough to leave your stuff. I've left my stuff for hours unattended and never worried about it.
(Hey, I'm actually the author) We were actually working out of Affinity Lab for over a year. A great place. That's what you do when you want to upgrade.
But the trick with any coworking space is that it's gotta be convenient. We moved out of the city and it's just a bit too far out. But AL is great.
Also, you don't have to spend $1000/month - that's just what happens if you're not careful. I generally spend about $4-5/day - so it rounds out to about $150.
But the trick with any coworking space is that it's gotta be convenient. We moved out of the city and it's just a bit too far out. But AL is great.
Also, you don't have to spend $1000/month - that's just what happens if you're not careful. I generally spend about $4-5/day - so it rounds out to about $150.
How do you account for wasted time out of curiosity? Do you just find 1 (or a few) places you always go to or how many hours per month do you waste searching for somewhere to work?
The location is definitely a factor, I was driving to a metro and then metroing in - it took between 1-1.5 hours. Then I just started driving at off peak times and it's much faster.
The location is definitely a factor, I was driving to a metro and then metroing in - it took between 1-1.5 hours. Then I just started driving at off peak times and it's much faster.
When I first got my iPad I put a timer app on it, and at some point I got really frustrated by how much time I perceived was being wasted, so for a few weeks I timed it every time I wasn't able to work when I was trying to (wifi down, no power, going to a new place, etc). It was crazy, actually, but I was losing half my working day (shortly after that we joined Affinity Lab).
Of course, now that I can't get to a co-working space, I had to get way better at planning and finding good places. Now I don't waste much time.
For that matter, I think I am more productive (for now) because I can't chit-chat and get distracted as I would when I'm around people I know. All of our work is offsite and online right now, so no productivity is wasted.
The biggest trick is, if it's a 3hr commute there and back to your office (plus settling in time) you have to weight it each time whether it's worth the trip or not. But I hit the coffee shop every morning, like it's my office, and gain 2.5hrs. You just can't slack off.
I wouldn't suggest doing it forever, but if you're going to do it, that's how.
Of course, now that I can't get to a co-working space, I had to get way better at planning and finding good places. Now I don't waste much time.
For that matter, I think I am more productive (for now) because I can't chit-chat and get distracted as I would when I'm around people I know. All of our work is offsite and online right now, so no productivity is wasted.
The biggest trick is, if it's a 3hr commute there and back to your office (plus settling in time) you have to weight it each time whether it's worth the trip or not. But I hit the coffee shop every morning, like it's my office, and gain 2.5hrs. You just can't slack off.
I wouldn't suggest doing it forever, but if you're going to do it, that's how.
Thanks for your explanation :) I actually don't find that I am wasting the travel time though. I have no anxiety about going personally, I know once I get there, I can sit down and get to work without thinking about any of the potential problems. In fact, it's a great time for me to think about things.
Going in: what do I absolutely need to do today? What would I like to do? How can I get it all done?
Going out: Did I reach my goals? Why/why not? What are some of the bigger issues I need to keep thinking about while working the day to day?
It's not an insignificant amount of time, but I don't find it wasteful, I easily spend that much time thinking about problems anyways, now I just am commuting at the same time!
Going in: what do I absolutely need to do today? What would I like to do? How can I get it all done?
Going out: Did I reach my goals? Why/why not? What are some of the bigger issues I need to keep thinking about while working the day to day?
It's not an insignificant amount of time, but I don't find it wasteful, I easily spend that much time thinking about problems anyways, now I just am commuting at the same time!
Sorry, am feeling very verbose the last few days. That's a great way to go too :-D
So fyi, just published the new list of Top 10 Coffee Shops for Entrepreneurs in DC (http://dcfounders.com/top-10-coffee-shops-in-washington-dc/). For when you need a break.
The antidote to coffee shops in Silicon Valley is Mountain View's Hacker Dojo. Drop-ins welcome.
I hate working in coffeeshops or shared offices.
Not being able to leave your stuff when you go to the bathroom is a big fail, but even worse, not being able to take phone calls in a low stress environment while sitting at your desk. Being able to look things up. Also, it's not really a great environment for having confidential discussions in general, especially in Silicon Valley -- I've had meetings where the VC picked a coffeeshop to meet, and 2-3 other companies were having meetings in the same space.
A private office in a setting with coworkers is ideal, but failing that, a dedicated home office is the next best alternative.
Not being able to leave your stuff when you go to the bathroom is a big fail, but even worse, not being able to take phone calls in a low stress environment while sitting at your desk. Being able to look things up. Also, it's not really a great environment for having confidential discussions in general, especially in Silicon Valley -- I've had meetings where the VC picked a coffeeshop to meet, and 2-3 other companies were having meetings in the same space.
A private office in a setting with coworkers is ideal, but failing that, a dedicated home office is the next best alternative.
Another option is to just pay for coworking. You still get to work with strangers (but now strangers who are paying to be in a productive environment), can often drink coffee (perhaps included as part of the coworking fees), should have consistent wifi and plenty of power outlets, and don't have to worry about getting kicked out to make room for other customers.
Yep, that's the upgrade if you can afford it and there is one nearby. Coworking places can be great.
For any of you Washington DCists - following up on demand, I just published The DC Founders list of Top 10 Coffee Shops for Entrepreneurs in Washington DC - http://dcfounders.com/top-10-coffee-shops-in-washington-dc/ . Let me know if you have some others. Enjoy!
Public library + mifi
Love this. I've been known to take an extension cable into starbucks.
Why not work at home? :\
On a related note, who here lives in NYC and works out of coffee shops?
[deleted]
Unless the coffee shop is dead, they don't want you there.
The library on the other hand is funded in part by utilization, and very much does want you there.
The library is quiet, is designed to provide work spaces, far larger, and generally very pleasant to be in. And it's free.
The coffee shop is loud, is certainly not ergonomic, cramped, and often jarring.
Also, I don't know what the word is for an ostensible who brings their own lunch daily to an establishment that serves any kind of food, but I'm sure there must be a word for it. Sheesh.